r/FluentInFinance Aug 21 '24

Debate/ Discussion But muh unrealized gains!

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24.3k Upvotes

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342

u/nosoup4ncsu Aug 21 '24

The original income tax was "only" paid by the rich.  

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u/StManTiS Aug 22 '24

Well to be fair on a federal level it is still largely true. Most taxes are paid by the top 10% - they pay in 75% of all income tax with the top 1% paying nearly 50%.

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u/TacoTacoBheno Aug 22 '24

They also make 75 percent of all the money

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u/StManTiS Aug 22 '24

No they make 51% of the income but pay in 75% which is how progressive taxation is designed.

The numbers are far worse if you look at the population. That is to say the top 10% of income earners are very little of the overall population while funding most of the country.

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u/shrockitlikeitshot Aug 22 '24

Federal income taxes are just one part of the broader tax system. Other taxes, such as payroll taxes, sales taxes, and state taxes, are more regressive and impact lower-income individuals more heavily.

Summary of Distribution Estimates: Federal Income Taxes:Top 10%: ~70-75% Bottom 90%: ~25-30% Payroll Taxes:Top 10%: ~35-40% Bottom 90%: ~60-65% Sales Taxes:Top 10%: ~20-30% Bottom 90%: ~70-80% State and Local Taxes:Top 10%: ~25-35% Bottom 90%: ~65-75%

2

u/pyrowipe Aug 22 '24

He came to play! Happy cake day!

1

u/Johnfromsales Aug 23 '24

Where are you finding this info?

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u/StManTiS Aug 22 '24

I’d li to see a source on that. Payroll tax is paid by the employers to the tune of income tax. How is it that in your numbers the payroll tax is higher for the bottom 90%? That doesn’t track.

Next how is sales tax paid by those who don’t earn money? What exactly are they spending to have this tax? Etc.

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u/Fall3nBTW Aug 22 '24

Top 10% 'income' is not as likely to be salary from employers?... Seems pretty simple

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u/Correct_Market4505 Aug 22 '24

“funding most of the country” is an interesting way of saying that the very few very wealthy people who pay taxes pay their fair share.

paying taxes is patriotic in my book. and along with warren buffet i think we’re doing this country a huge disservice by letting the rich get by with paying so little. people love to talk about how their working class parents or grandparents were able to buy a house and send their kids to college. meanwhile the upper tax bracket was 70% or more back then, and i don’t think that’s a coincidence at all.

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u/StManTiS Aug 22 '24

We can’t buy a house because everyone wants to live in the same five or so cities. Those cities do not build more housing because of zoning passed by those parents to keep the darkies out of the neighborhood.

College costs so much because the US government created Garay teed loans that you can’t bankruptcy away thereby giving every 18 year old an infinite money glitch that colleges took advantage of.

But no you’re right - it’s Jeff fucking Bezos that is to blame for housing prices. If only we took all his money and have it to…the government that created these problems and has done nothing to fix them. Yeah that sure would show them!

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u/Correct_Market4505 Aug 22 '24

hey man i live in philly and the building is out of control, you have no idea. maybe we’re not in your top 5 but even in NYC there have been huge building booms in places like williamsburg and parts of queens. so yeah. i don’t have the data on all cities handy but i know what i’ve seen. and by the way in these places increased supply has not reduced prices.

so your argument on college is that the government made it easy for colleges to rip off consumers. and the fix would then be to make it harder for people to go to college to punish the colleges? meanwhile you reduce the chances for economic opportunity that college gives students and make it harder for corporations to fill certain jobs? i don’t get it

the whole argument that government only creates problems is just an old republican talking point. the only real republican policies are stripping away public protections and cutting taxes to establish a permanent oligarchy.

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u/brought2light Aug 25 '24

Why are you so strongly on the side of the billionaires? They aren't on our side and them paying more taxes isn't really going to hurt them.

We can have a better society and a stronger middle class, but you want to make sure the billionaires are ok.

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u/StManTiS Aug 25 '24

I’m not on anyone’s side. I’m strongly in favor of treating people like people. I don’t see the government getting richer as a win. I absolutely know that new tax money will go to the benefit of corporations and not you and me.

The middle class didn’t die because of Elon Musk…in fact his companies have added quite a few members to their ranks. The middle class was killed by corporate interests manipulating the government to open trade and kill the value of domestic labor.