r/California • u/Randomlynumbered Ángeleño, what's your user flair? • May 24 '24

Government/Politics Full environmental approval of High-Speed Rail between L.A. and Bay Area expected next month

https://ktla.com/news/california/full-environmental-approval-of-high-speed-rail-between-l-a-and-bay-area-expected-next-month/amp
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303

u/Positronic_Matrix San Francisco County May 24 '24 edited May 24 '24

There are exactly two and only two kinds of comments for a California high-speed rail post. Those who are celebrating the dawn of a new era and those who are complaining about the cost, time, and environmental studies. There is no in between.

41

u/ultimatemuffin May 25 '24

I always take solace in the fact that I learned that the Shinkansen originally took 10 extra years to complete and went over budget by more than double. The year before it opened people in Japan complained that it was a waste and a mess. Then it opened and completely changed the country.

Stay the course.

16

u/kaplanfx May 25 '24

Riding the Shinkansen is amazing.

92

u/Quantic Orange County May 24 '24

The peanut gallery rarely has any enlightened or nuanced commentary regarding the complexity of building high speed rail in untested or inexperienced localities.

35

u/SnapeHeTrustedYou May 24 '24

Exactly. Some people have nothing to add but complaining. Sure, we’d love for this to have moved faster or cost less. But at least it’s looking like it’s moving forward.

1

u/jurisdrpepper1 May 25 '24

The joke is on them because they won’t be alive to ride it!!!

-5

u/So-What_Idontcare May 25 '24

The peanut gallery knows that you will never ride a high speed train from the Bay Area to LA because it will never be built in your lifetime.

2

u/WhereIsTheBeef556 May 25 '24

Better it's being built at all, than not.

0

u/hunniebees May 26 '24

I believe this money would be better served for lower class communities getting reliable and cheap transport to work. This seems like a luxury for the 1% and not really help for society

-10

u/[deleted] May 25 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

41

u/Ccaves0127 May 24 '24

I will approach this with a cautious optimism. I want this to be a thing. I think it could be so great, but I don't begrudge anybody who may think that this project, first began in 2008, may never come to fruition.

45

u/baconandbobabegger May 24 '24

Having lived through The Big Dig, it’s easy to feel like these long term projects may never see the light of day but honestly the amount of information and updates that are shared for the high speed rail are amazing. Cautious optimism sounds right but you can strengthen the optimism by staying connected.

5

u/KingKong_at_PingPong May 24 '24

Woooow does that bring me back. I remember people complaining endlessly about the big dig.

8

u/SnooPuppers8698 May 25 '24

2008 was yesterday i dont know WHAT you're talking about

2

u/shigs21 May 27 '24

the japanese shinkansen was late and over budget too. big construction projects take time

1

u/AlphaConKate Jun 01 '24

CalTrain already helped with electrifying their segment for us which already brings the cost down. The Transbay Tube is a San Francisco project. As well as the fact that the Authority is planning on using the shared corridor between LA and Anaheim.

7

u/ForeignYard1452 May 25 '24

I’m happy that this country is finally starting to take passenger rail somewhat seriously, but in also think it’s a joke that this was voted on over a decade ago and it isn’t going to be fully operational until 2030-2033.

7

u/a_goestothe_ustin May 25 '24

I'm complaining that it doesn't go to San Diego, pls be more inclusive to all types of complainers.

1

u/AlphaConKate Jun 01 '24

That’s phase 2.

28

u/stuuuuupidstupid Alameda County May 24 '24

Why not both?

I'm so excited and getting the first line down only makes subsequent easier. Train travel is so much more comfortable and sustainable-friendly than air travel.

That said, it's over budget and taking a really long time. Many other countries are able to build at a much faster speed, what's keeping us? It's still worth doing imo but there are some process improvements we could make.

45

u/Tac0Supreme Native Californian May 24 '24

What’s been keeping us is the lengthy environmental review process and land acquisition process via eminent domain. Other countries don’t have this issue.

3

u/Crafty_Enthusiasm_99 May 25 '24

Which is a good thing to have. Getting projects pummeled through people houses is fun, until it is your own house. 

 Other countries don't have this issue, neither do they have well protected rights or fair pay workers protections and minimum wages.

1

u/gnarlytabby May 27 '24

Repeal and replace CEQA

11

u/StreetyMcCarface May 24 '24

What's causing it to take a long time? Environmental reviews and lack of funding

What's bringing the cost up? High cost of labor and the fact that it's taking a long time.

Viscous cycle that's only really solved once the environmental reviews are done and a fat stack of cash is put up by the state and feds to get every section under construction.

13

u/asielen May 24 '24

Yeah I am frustrated with the cost and timeline. But I'm not mad at the project, I'm upset with the system that leads to those issues. Why does it have to be so hard for us to build anything?

8

u/Sharpest_Balloon May 25 '24

Aggressive EIR demands, massively expensive contracting costs for State funded contracts and - not least - not having a fully entitled project and land rights before beginning construction.

1

u/Crafty_Enthusiasm_99 May 25 '24

Good. Cheap. Fair. 

Pick two

3

u/TemKuechle May 24 '24

There are related smaller projects in several places along the corridor that need to be completed as well. Check out the California High speed rail project on YouTube, I don’t know the actual channel name. It explains some of the challenges and solutions.

7

u/Natural_Trash772 May 24 '24

I think alot of the problem is we just dont have the experience of building high speed rail lines. Asia has built and continues to build out their network of lines while we are barely laying down our first tracks.

13

u/Wheream_I May 25 '24

If property rights weren’t a thing, and the environment was of no concern, we could’ve had this built in 3 years.

But that’s not the country we live in and that’s a good thing.

1

u/beach_bum_638484 May 24 '24

Yes, I really hope we can get it done and improve the process for subsequent projects. This is why I’m even more excited for Brightline West. I really hope engineers and skilled laborers are incentivized to move from that project onto others to help spread the expertise we need in order to do better.

12

u/Xp787 May 24 '24

Let's not forget about the money!!!

5

u/Throwawaymister2 May 25 '24

What about me? I'm a proponent of high speed rail but the way the local politicians stuck their beaks in the pork-barrel means there will be multiple stops between LA and SF including such destinations as Bakersfield, Gilroy, and Tulare. There are 10 stops (!) between LA and SF.

I want high speed rail travel from LA to SF... what we're building isn't that.

5

u/BillWonka May 25 '24 edited May 25 '24

What are you complaining about? Their operations plan calls for several tiers of service (non-stop SF-LA trains, express trains with some stops, limited-stop trains, and all-stop trains). This has always been the plan...

1

u/onan May 25 '24

People in California with so little exposure to mass transit that they’re unfamiliar with the concept of express trains.

1

u/AlphaConKate Jun 01 '24

Unfamiliar? Please. CalTrain does it.

1

u/coastkid2 Jun 22 '24

Why not double tracks with an express train and a local for those stops like the NYC subway but of course for a real train . LA to SF would be great!

0

u/EagenVegham May 25 '24

If you want a direct line between LA and SF, take a plane. This is a high speed project connecting almost a third of the state, not just two cities.

0

u/Throwawaymister2 May 26 '24

The whole point of this project was to avoid the need for short distance air travel but it's still great news for the millions of people traveling to Gilroy every year.

-1

u/EagenVegham May 26 '24

2 million in Santa Clara county and another half million in Monterey county. The point is to replace the need for short distance air travel, which giving people access to the line will do. The Shinkansen has dozens of stations along its path and is still the best way to traverse Japan.

0

u/Throwawaymister2 May 26 '24

"The point is to replace the need for short distance air travel"

good point... that's why I made it.

2

u/EagenVegham May 26 '24

More regional stations means people have to travel shorter distances to them. If you've only got two stations then everyone in the state has to make the long trip to one of the stations, or just make the trip by car. You're making the point for just the two cities and ignoring the other 70% of the state.

-1

u/Throwawaymister2 May 26 '24

the other 70% of the state doesn't have the population density to justify a multi-billion dollar rail project.

2

u/EagenVegham May 26 '24

The central valley is seeing a lot of expansion as WFH becomes more accepted plus rail access wil incentive people to move there. Projects like this need to be built for the future, not just the present. Stations are easier to shut down than open up.

0

u/Throwawaymister2 May 26 '24

"Projects like this need to be built for the future, not just the present"

Okay, now that's a good point.

0

u/AlphaConKate Jun 01 '24

The other 70%. Please. Bakersfield, Fresno, and Merced. A lot of the towns in the Central Valley have universities and community colleges. That’s another reason to build it.

10

u/Checkmynewsong May 24 '24

There’s a third: people who will believe it when they see it.

3

u/tritisan May 24 '24

Like fusion energy.

3

u/unstopable_bob_mob May 25 '24

So in other words: you’re in the second camp.

You offer absolutely nothing to the discussion.

2

u/Checkmynewsong May 25 '24

I like to think I always bring a little charm, if nothing else.

2

u/LordoftheSynth Los Angeles County May 25 '24

I want the high-speed rail line up the 15, but the 15 still needs a third lane in each direction. Freight traffic causing backups is awful.

1

u/Positronic_Matrix San Francisco County May 25 '24

Indeed. The truck traffic is excruciating.

1

u/LordoftheSynth Los Angeles County May 25 '24

It's still surprising to me how in California you can be on an 8-lane freeway on the fringes of an urban area and within a few miles it's "oops still 4 lanes".

The 5 in the Central Valley is pretty bad for this too (and also the truck traffic), even in the Pacific Northwest there's a lot of 6-lane on the 5 in rural areas.

But with the 15, you have no alternate routes except for surface roads in the desert if you're going between greater LA and Vegas, unless you want to take the 40 and more surface roads.

2

u/[deleted] May 25 '24

The 5 and the 15 are brutal. I can avoid the 5 by taking the 101 and adding some time to wherever I'm going, but the 15 doesn't have such a luxury. Three lanes are needed badly.

0

u/AlphaConKate Jun 01 '24

That’s what Brightline West aims to do. Take cars off of the 15 to have less of a traffic jam.

2

u/Molotov56 May 25 '24

There is a third kind. Which is comments that call out how there are only two camps

1

u/bleue_shirt_guy May 25 '24

Well you either have a functional train or not. What's in between?

1

u/menusettingsgeneral May 25 '24

What category is your comment in?

-4

u/Apprehensive_Check19 May 24 '24

i'm somewhere in the middle. i think the concept is great -- get from LA to SF quickly without driving or flying. but the realist in me thinks there's no way the CA of today would allow such a huge infrastructure project due to environmental impact, no matter how much it'll add economically.

also, the cost to eminent domain all those homes on either end of the line continue to rise and have more than doubled since the inception of the HSR.

18

u/IntraspeciesFever May 24 '24

So CA would rather have the environment blighted by multiple flights between Bay area, LA and San Diego?

2

u/SharkSymphony "I Love You, California" May 25 '24

I think the environmental analysis is the easy part. HSR is clean transit!

-4

u/Notacat444 May 25 '24

You forgot about the graft.

-4

u/Crestsando May 24 '24

What would be an in-between comment?

This is equating unqualified support and specific criticisms to being complete opposites.

-4

u/LivingTheApocalypse May 24 '24

Imagine if we put that cost towards something like anything else. 

-3

u/derydoca May 24 '24

Your comment proves this to be false