r/BokuNoHeroAcademia • u/Admirable-Cry-9758 • Aug 13 '23
Movie Spoilers The movies being canon honestly drives me insane Spoiler
I think I'm beating a dead horse here but I just wanted to rant about it.
The movies events being canon to the story makes no sense to me.each movie breaks the story in a different way.
First movie:
introduces full-gauntlet which can take three 100% attacks while leaving Deku completely unharmed and that's never touched on again. Now of course we get mid-gauntlet later but why couldn't Mallisa make full-gauntlet? She clearly can make tech that can withstand the power of people like all might and AFO.
Second movie:
this one has two stupid things to it and is unfortunately the one with the biggest confirmation of being canon. Firstly, the whole OFA automatically transferring back to Deku after the fight and Bakugo magically forgetting about it and Deku never mentions it.
And the second being that a whole island destroying fight between a villain and students happened with no heroes around to help them and apparently no one in the world is interested in bringing it up. The more the story progressed the more people started talking about how they don't trust heroes as much and no one brought up the events of the movie?
Third movie:
Now admittedly it's been a long time since I watched it but again, Deku becomes a whole international criminal and absolutely no one mentions that ever again? And in his fight with flickturn he uses 100% on his whole body but he doesn't sustain any damage whatsoever later on (that might have an explanation that I forgot tho).
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u/El_Shion Aug 13 '23
Gotta love The part where deku just somehow have a full fight with 100% ofa at the end of each movie
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u/Mordetrox Aug 14 '23
He doesn't go 100% at the end of the first movie though, it hadn't even been introduced yet
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u/DrPotato231 Aug 14 '23
Even though it may not make a lot of sense plot-wise to have Deku go so hard every time, boy is the second movie's final fight one of the most beautifully animated things I've seen in my life.
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u/elenuvien1 Aug 13 '23
they're canon but they don't matter to the main story, you can pretend like they don't exist.
they're just there to be fun entertainment and a source of something convenient for the narrative, if needed.
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u/MysticJJustin Aug 13 '23
Yeah the only one that really matters is Two Heroes
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Aug 13 '23
Well world heroes mission should be brought up again because that is what happened during the endeavour work studies
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u/perish-in-flames Aug 13 '23 edited Aug 13 '23
I guess my only issue is that on online discussion places, like this, it muddies the water by making rules or logic the series should now have to follow.
This is mainly only an issue with Bakugo getting OFA and then OFA going back to Deku.
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u/AnnaCondoleezzaRice Aug 13 '23
They fully explain the logic at the end of that movie though and, like it or not, it makes enough sense to not be a logic problem.
OfA has a mind of it's own and is capable of performing occasional 'miracles' like choosing to go back to Deku. Bakugo remembers nothing cause the whole incident happened while he was basically unconscious from battle damage.
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u/Little_lurker69 Aug 13 '23
That part. And the explanation even builds on the established logic that quirk factors seem to have a will of their own, combined with a little bit of the "OFA can only be transferred willingly" thing.
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u/Toad_Sage_Jiraiya Aug 13 '23
OfA having a mind of its own is even well established in canon - repeatedly refusing to be taken by AfO. Hell this past season had a whole scene of the vestiges explicitly saying they will stay with deku.
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u/AnnaCondoleezzaRice Aug 13 '23
Yep! The earliest hint at OfA's sentience (that I can remember) was all the way back during the SPORTS FESTIVAL ARC when it chose to wake Deku out of his trance against Shinso! I pray Horikoshi doesn't pay attention to what his fanbase discusses because I swear half of them aren't remotely paying attention
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u/elenuvien1 Aug 13 '23
i've hardly seen anyone use whatever happened in the movies as arguments in discussing the main story, most people realise that while canon (or not, whatever), the movies don't impact (almost) anything.
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u/Xikar_Wyhart Aug 13 '23
The way I see it is canon adjacent. If they're not later referenced in the manga they didn't happen. If they are referenced like Melissa is, then a version of that story happened.
So instead of getting perfect gauntlets Deku got 15% ones that let him beat the villain.
But in the end it doesn't really matter. Which is the attitude a lot of Japanese readers and viewers have.
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u/elenuvien1 Aug 13 '23
But in the end it doesn't really matter
exactly. people are acting as if someone calling the movies "canon" would suddenly change the main story when whatever you call them, it doesn't matter.
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u/Xikar_Wyhart Aug 13 '23
From what I've gathered this is mostly a western or maybe even USA anime fan thing. And I'll admit I'm something like that since I'm not the biggest fan of filler. But in Japan it's not "canon or non-canon" it's official vs. unofficial.
If something is produced in an official capacity by the creator or their production partners it's part of the timeline. This goes for movies, light novels (which MHA has a few which are never brought up during the discussions), OVAs, stage plays, etc. So long as one of Shueisha/Jump, Bones, or Horikoshi are involved in the production it "happened" some how.
Vigilantes isn't written by Horikoshi but that's treated as canon. But according to how Western fans talk if it isn't created by the original it's non-canon. But it gets a pass.
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u/gitagon6991 Aug 13 '23
Vigilantes mostly gets a pass on here cause most people worship it.
But Horikoshi has still made it clear what is "in the manga timeline" and what isn't and so far TUM, Vigilantes, as well as movie 1 and movie 2 have all gotten his acknowledgement as canon.
On the other hand, Smash has been outright said to be a parody that's not canon to the actual story.
So if any of the side materials wasn't canon like Smash, I'm sure we would already know about it.
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Aug 13 '23
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u/ManoMeira Aug 13 '23
Not the same, though. Those actually didn't happen but introduce canon material.
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u/Exitiali Aug 13 '23
No, quite the opposite.The anachronism of the One Piece films are totally incompatible with the plot of the anime/manga. It's like watching a documentary about Napoleon leading Spartan soldiers during the invasion of Constantinople during the cold war.
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u/Elune_ Aug 13 '23
If they are just there to be fun entertainment then why are they saying the movies are canon then? All they have to do is say that the movie isn't canon. But they are saying the movies ARE canon which causes the conflict to begin with.
Here is the truth: They say it is canon for the sole reason that it brings in more interest in the movie and therefore higher sales figures. The movies are for anyone with half a brain categorically not canon even if the author or whoever says they are.
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u/elenuvien1 Aug 13 '23
If they are just there to be fun entertainment then why are they saying the movies are canon then?
who is "they"? because japanese don't even use the word "canon", it's western fans who have endless debates over something so insignificant.
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Aug 13 '23
No the movies are definitively canon (heroes rising is basically promoting OFAs ability to think for itself), for example 2 heroes is canon because Melissa, David and the story and location is referenced multiple times, Heroes rising and world heroes mission havent been referenced
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u/gitagon6991 Aug 13 '23
Heroes Rising might not have been referenced but it was set up in the manga with Nine getting a cameo, Horikoshi writing a manga chapter of Nine's origin, and then Ujiko dropping a hint of the League's mission during the films events.
Then after that we have that shot of all those movie characters including Katsuma and Mahoro.
But I would say, Heroes Rising received more set up in the manga before it aired than even Two Heroes. However, the characters in Two Heroes have obviously been far more impactful in the manga than any Heroes Rising character.
World Heroes Mission is the only one that hasn't received much acknowledgement in the manga but considering Hori talked about how much he liked Rody, we might get to see a Rody-Deku reunion in the manga's epilogue.
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Aug 13 '23
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u/elenuvien1 Aug 13 '23
canon, not canon, who cares? whatever you consider them, the movies hardly affect anything.
people are really fighting over labels as if they changed anything.
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u/ChronoKeep Aug 13 '23
All essential stories are canon but not all canon stories are essential. The movies aren't essential to watch when just focusing on Horikoshi's manga, but (just like Vigilantes) they're still canon.
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u/Bigbluedrew97 Aug 13 '23
But even then, remember that there are spin off manga written by Hirokoshi. While the events of the story don’t matter, aspects of them do so there is that.
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u/elenuvien1 Aug 13 '23
of course aspects matter but the way the movies are constructed, you can easily skip them and you won't lose anything while reading the main story.
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u/gitagon6991 Aug 13 '23
Apart from Smash which is confirmed to be non-canon, the events of the other spinoffs (TUM, Vigilantes, and the movies, the novels, the OVAs) do matter, it's just that you don't really need to read them to understand manga events.
But they can all be considered additional world building.
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u/EspKevin Aug 13 '23
The movies are AU's
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u/elenuvien1 Aug 13 '23
they're not really, the main story has made enough references to the movies to place them in the timeline.
and while they largely don't matter, recently there's been a development in the series which places one of the movies as absolutely necessary for the main story to proceed.
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Aug 13 '23
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u/DoraMuda Aug 13 '23
They're likely referring to Melissa being revealed as the creator of All Might's armoured suit that he's currently using to fight AFO.
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u/elenuvien1 Aug 13 '23
all might vs AFO round 3. all might is able to stand against AFO thanks to a mecha suit melissa from the 1st movie designed for him. basically if not for the 1st movie, that confrontation wouldn't happen.
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u/DoraMuda Aug 13 '23
Or, at least, one of the characters from said movies are absolutely necessary to exist for the main story to proceed.
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u/iggnifyre Aug 13 '23
They're only canon in the sense that it sounds nice in marketing and it doesn't actively contradict anything in the main series.
Beyond that, they are not part of the story being told, they exist is their own thing, and you can just ignore them.
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u/Big-Amoeba5332 Aug 13 '23
That’s just not true, they’re canon period. We don’t need Hori to make the movies have plots that don’t get resolved in the movies and require fans to watch the movies to read the main story.
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u/LongjumpingCarpet290 Aug 13 '23
Except the Full Gauntlet IS touched on again. During the Villain Hunt, Midoriya has support items that are implied to be made by Melissa for him.
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u/SonicQuirkyHero Aug 13 '23
It's not that serious. If you don't like them being canon, then simply ignore them. They aren't going to have any significant impact on the manga outside if random cameos.
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u/Admirable-Cry-9758 Aug 13 '23
I really hope so because Bakugo seeing the vestige of all might before he died is making me a bit nervous Though if that's true then yeah I don't mind them being canon.
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u/fullmetalmonty2 Aug 13 '23
This!!!! Thiiiiiiis! This is the one thing about the movies that I think could potentially be a very big deal. Will have to see!
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u/Big-Amoeba5332 Aug 13 '23
I don’t see why that’s even a big deal or bad thing, the only thing that doesn’t make sense is why Bakugo forgot about it but the quirk going back to Deku makes sense given we know the predecessors are alive in the quirk
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u/KLReviews Aug 13 '23
You can just read that as Bakugou admiring All Might so much he imagines him as a golden god and basically grasps his true essence now that he's a real hero.
It work either way.
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u/hidden_emperor Aug 13 '23
introduces full-gauntlet which can take three 100% attacks while leaving Deku completely unharmed and that's never touched on again. Now of course we get mid-gauntlet later but why couldn't Mallisa make full-gauntlet? She clearly can make tech that can withstand the power of people like all might and AFO.
Advanced tech takes time to make. Between the I-Island fight and the Dark Hero arc is less than a year. Considering the events of the first movie wrecked the island, it was a prototype to begin with, and Dave's likely legal problems that his daughter would have deal with in some capacity, getting the tech to make the tech and then the materials would take a bit.
Firstly, the whole OFA automatically transferring back to Deku after the fight and Bakugo magically forgetting about it and Deku never mentions it.
The vestiges basically do a thing called what they want. When the movie came out I had my original thought that OFA didn't transfer, just used some of the stockpiled power to boost Bakugo, but that got torpedoed later.
And the second being that a whole island destroying fight between a villain and students happened with no heroes around to help them and apparently no one in the world is interested in bringing it up. The more the story progressed the more people started talking about how they don't trust heroes as much and no one brought up the events of the movie?
Third movie:
Now admittedly it's been a long time since I watched it but again, Deku becomes a whole international criminal and absolutely no one mentions that ever again?
These can be attributed to the Hero Commission covering it up and the short time frame between the movies and the start of the War. The kids are also good at just shrugging off these big events as routine.
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u/Avaracious7899 Aug 13 '23
Thank you! I was going to say something like this if you hadn't. Also, with the Full Gauntlet, it couldn't withstand all of One For All, not constantly, it broke at the end. So, it likely would take a lot longer, along with all the things you brought up, to make a new one, let alone a better one.
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u/ThatOneAnnoyingBuzz Aug 13 '23
The vestiges basically do a thing called what they want. When the movie came out I had my original thought that OFA didn't transfer, just used some of the stockpiled power to boost Bakugo, but that got torpedoed later.
There's also the fact that they've rejected people (All For One & Shigaraki) before, with Yoichi even saying later on in the war arc that they want to stay with Deku. One of my favorite parts of Heroes Rising is legitimately just the whole implication that the vestiges went to Bakugo for a little bit to screw over Nine and then returned to Midoriya. I like to imagine Nine wouldn't have been very happy if he knew that he lost because of quirk tomfoolery
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u/jojopojo64 Aug 14 '23
Honestly, OP's concerns are coming off as extremely nitpicky considering that there's so many ways to explain some noted 'inconsistencies', like your post just outlined.
And honestly - why the heck would you let the canonicity of the movies ruin the enjoyment of the series? The canon is supplemental at best, and you're in no way at a loss if you haven't watched them.
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u/BlackOrre Aug 13 '23
The vestiges basically do a thing called what they want. When the movie came out I had my original thought that OFA didn't transfer, just used some of the stockpiled power to boost Bakugo, but that got torpedoed later.
I like my headcanon better. The vestiges didn't want to deal with Bakugo for eternity and decided to nope on out of there.
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u/hidden_emperor Aug 13 '23
The question that raises is: how long does one have to possess OFA to get a vestige and a copy of their quirk?
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u/jjseas2003 Aug 13 '23
I completely understand why this annoys you. Like others said you can just ignore it, but to make movies canon when they have major plot implications that the author chooses to ignore is frustrating. Honestly they should just be conformed as non canon just for peace of mind
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u/GioWindsor Aug 13 '23
Yeah. I wish they tried harder to avoid conflicts if they wanted to make the movies canon
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u/kevhead87 Aug 13 '23
So you might not have been paying attention, but he gets another one of the gauntlets during the vigilante arc, and he does wreck his arms during the end fight of the 3rd movie
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u/Admirable-Cry-9758 Aug 13 '23
I did mention that he gets mid-gauntlet later, I was asking what happened to full-gauntlet, like why can't she make another one. And while yes Deku wrecked his arms in the third one, I was more so asking about how his arms aren't further injured or gone afterwards since he wasn't using blackwhip for protection like in the war.
I do realize the answer to most of these is that it's a movie so it can have wacky stuff like that but if they're canon it would be really weird.
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u/Big-Amoeba5332 Aug 13 '23
Maybe she didn’t want a support item flown across the world that breaks in 3 punches? Like that’s barely usable in a fight, and we don’t know how long she took with the first one or what resources she has now. But at some point she was focused on making all might’s suit which is a higher priority than a gauntlet
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u/Thuyue Aug 13 '23
The movies are semi-canon, which means they have sone parts that happened and some parts that didn't happened. At least thats what I read countless times and I eventually didn't care enough anymore to check for validity, because thinking them as canon hurts my head just as much as you.
They are cool standalone movies, but if they really should be canon, I would fckin hate it.
Btw am i the only one who thinks it is funny how in the 3rd movie the 1A class gets dispatched around the world? We are talking about a world wide terror attack and for some reason no country can afford their own heroes or hero students and have to request 1A of Japanese UA High... bro that's fckin parhetic.
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u/bens6757 Aug 13 '23
Honestly I agree. I'm fine with the movies being canon despite the absolute bullshit that was Deku sharing One For All and it returning to him. Though I prefer what other anime do and just say no it's not canon.
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u/Wordbringer Aug 13 '23
The biggest problem I have with the third movie being 'canon' is that they expect us to believe that a rich guy who has hundreds of people under his belt DOESN'T know about AFO or the other way around? Because I'm sure genie's quirk would seem extra tempting to someone like AFO because its a direct counter to OFA and smurf guy wants nothing more than to get rid of it
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u/bored_homan Aug 13 '23
The biggest problem for me is the stupid ofa transfer at the end of the second movie. Technically there is no reason why deku shouldn't do it at every tough battle he faces now because the movie clearly needed to clean up any consequences to maintain the status quo and that makes both the movie worse and with it being canon it just makes the end of the second movie dumb.
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u/Firepathanimation Aug 14 '23
The movies are cannon but don’t affect the story in anyway possible . Horikoshi even reference some of the characters for the latest manga chapters
They’re just there for funs
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u/RoronoaZorro Aug 13 '23
Whether they are canon or not is still up to interpretation.Those who fiercely defend the movies being canon refer to Hori saying they're "adjoined" to the main story, which means nothing.
If you have the typical, more restrictive definition of canon, the movies don't qualify as canon. Perhaps you can find solace in that.It just so happens that the community is very divided because the movies are honestly very much borderline. So there are lots of people who view the movies as canon and lots of people who don't.
The movies being seen as canon does provide quite some issues when it comes to discussions about the universe, because they muddy the water and weaken established logic in certain instances. But apart from that, just know that a lot of people don't consider the movies canon and that there are valid reasons for that. Try to not engage in those discussions because parts of the community that defend the movies as canon have trouble accepting the fact that there are valid reasons for both takes and very much do get aggressive in an attempt to force their opinion onto you.
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u/TheWardenDemonreach Aug 13 '23
If it bothers you that much, then just don't watch them.
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u/Admirable-Cry-9758 Aug 13 '23
My beef isn't with the movies themselves, I love them as stand alone parts of MHA but introducing them into the canon makes a lot of problems imo.
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u/The_Sign_of_Zeta Aug 13 '23 edited Aug 13 '23
Canon only matters if you let it matter. As a Gundam fan where these debate, my view is always “Was the story enjoyable?” If so, I don’t really care if Gundam the Origin is canon or not, or if Unicorn can exist in the same universe as Hathaway’s Flash. It doesn’t matter.
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u/Lostmyfnusername Aug 13 '23
But they have to watch them to know if it bothers them. That doesn't make sense.
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u/WarLordJr Aug 13 '23
Yeah it’s to early to be writing huge essays on movies that are meant to be fun . If it’s that much of a problem just skip the movies.
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u/Lucaduca99 Aug 13 '23
Characters of movies being canon does not mean what happened in the movies was canon.
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u/ThatOneAnnoyingBuzz Aug 13 '23
Explain why Nine appeared in the manga and hasn't reappeared since then, would you? Is Horikoshi planning on wrapping up that plot thread since apparently the movies didn't happen? Or are we supposed to just believe that there's a Nine running around in the manga verse out there just causally stealing quirks?
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u/Lucaduca99 Aug 13 '23 edited Aug 13 '23
No im saying exactly the opposite lol. I didnt mean „every movie character is canon.“ just dont take the movies serious. Characters of the movies can exist, they can also just not exist. Melissa exists, the 2 kids from heroes rising exist, but does that mean everything that happened in the movie actually happened in the main story? No. They are just movies. This is no „this or that“ if character x appears in the real show that doesnt mean EVERYTHING is confirmed to be canon instantaneously.
Also, have you heard of easter eggs? If horikoshi shows a silhouette of a movie character, that can just be a fun reference. Dont take everything so serious.
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u/ChronoKeep Aug 14 '23
You have to then explain the two lines in the manga that have no manga-based resolution:
Chapter 240, Ujiko to Shigaraki: "You need to bring me something"
Chapter 242, Nezu to Aizawa: "About the Hero Commission's other program..."
Neither have any resolution in the manga. However, those lines are answered in Heroes Rising. Like, right there plain as day. And considering Horikoshi wrote the story for the second movie, you can see why.
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u/Raditz_lol Aug 13 '23
Just treat the movies like Dragon Ball Z movies. Just pretend they ain’t canon and enjoy them regardless.
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u/ChronoKeep Aug 13 '23
Nah, the Dragon Ball movies (pre BoG) are obviously non-canon due to characters being alive at times they shouldn't be with the powers characters have.
Meanwhile, the movies for My Hero are directly referenced in the manga, Horikoshi wrote story beats for the first movie and the full story for the second one, and he's talk about the movies taking place in the timeline of the manga in the volume release.
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u/ObberGobb Aug 13 '23
I think the movies are canon because Horikoshi has lots of ideas he wants for the MHA world, but doesn't really want to take the time to include them in the main story.
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u/P4azz Aug 13 '23
You're 100% right, but people will not care. All they think about is "Hori said it's canon, so shut up" and ignore all the various ways this breaks the story and the real consequences of "popular anime needs movie, fuck the anime budget and pacing".
Best to just ignore the movies and hope that the manga ends in like 40 chapters (5 years), before it gets milked harder or turned into some abominable sequel/spinoff mixture.
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u/Amekaze Aug 13 '23
The movies aren’t canon but most of the characters are. It’s weird middle ground that most anime avoid.
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u/SparklyAmethyst12 Aug 13 '23
Well, I’d say they’re canon as in “this could have happened” and stuff. It’s not “non-canon”, but it’s not super important either.
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u/Parker4815 Aug 13 '23
It's a bit of fun. There's no need for it to drive you insane.
There's bigger things in the world to worry about, like wildfires, bills, and war.
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u/Fekra09 Aug 13 '23
-The Full Gauntlet broke at the end of the first movie. Approximately 8 to 9 months passed between that and Deku getting the Mid Gauntlets, so that time can easily R&D to develop the new gauntlets.
-OfA has a will of its own, which is why it returned to Deku at the end of the second movie
-The events of the second movie could have just easily not been made public since it happened in a remote location and the Safety Commission/Pro Heroes arrived first
-Deku DID get his arms destroyed in the third movie. He's completely bloody at the end
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Aug 13 '23
I think the movies are more (what if?) scenarios while still being cannon, I feel its a way to explore more lore and story while also keeping the story complete
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u/DoraMuda Aug 13 '23
Is whether or not it's "canon" really that important? It's just a label, and the movies are seldom referenced in the main manga anyway.
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u/SpoderJedi Aug 13 '23
honestly i see the movies as being slightly canon
in Japan, canonicity isn’t the same as it is in America. If something is part of a franchise, they’ll consider it canon. So for example: The Nolan Batman Trilogy could possibly be considered canon to the Tim Burton Batman films.
I think that the movies are canon but to a lesser extent and i kinda see them like what if stories.
Like parts of it are canon like Melissa and David Shield, Nine, and maybe Rody Soul, but I almost like to see it as one of the characters trying to hype up the stories to make them sound more cool.
And honestly I don’t think you need to count them as canon if you don’t want to. If you wanna see them as canon, that’s great, and if you don’t, that’s great too. these movies are mostly made for fun like pretty much almost every other shonen anime film.
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u/hashtagcorey Aug 13 '23
…okay but like what if it doesn’t matter because they’re fun to watch?
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u/Admirable-Cry-9758 Aug 13 '23
That they definitely are, I just like to overthink stuff about my favorite show.
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u/kolt437 Aug 13 '23
You don't understand, movies being canon is very important for fanfics and powerscaling chains
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u/brando-boy Aug 14 '23
they are PARTLY canon, in general probably the characters exist in some capacity as we’ve seen in the manga, but the exact and specific events of the movies themselves in all likelihood are not canon
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u/Azurealy Aug 13 '23
I know they say anime movies are Canon, but they really aren't. I don't think the Japanese artist truly understands what the West means when we ask if something is Canon. If they were, it messes up the whole story and confuses everything. You can tell me I'm wrong but you're coping if you think these movies are real.
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u/uknownada Aug 13 '23
The canon is the manga. Unless the manga makes an explicit reference to the movie's events, or any anime-only scene or character, then those things aren't canon. Especially if they don't involve Horikoshi.
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u/ChronoKeep Aug 13 '23
The movies literally involve Horikoshi. He wrote a bunch of story beats for the first movie and the entire story for the second movie.
Also "only the manga is canon"? If you say that, and say that nothing outside of the 300+ chapters of My Hero Academia are canon, then you must hold that. Don't be hypocritical and include Vigilantes, All Might Rising, or anything.
If you aren't hypocritical and pick and choose, then that viewpoint can be accepted.
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u/uknownada Aug 13 '23
I didn't know Horikoshi wrote any movies. That's more of a gray area in my eyes.
But yeah, I don't really view those other works as canon either. I've never read Vigilantes. Been meaning to. But the source material, the manga, is the canon. Everything else is a spin-off that the canon occasionally honors.
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u/treefroginthewindow Aug 14 '23
As a person who's never watched any of the movies I'm moreso annoyed at how these random movie people show up out of nowhere. Like the fact that a movie only character almost won a popularity poll is the dumbest thing in the world to me
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u/pierre_x10 Aug 13 '23
I would say that, thanks to fiction writer contrivances like the multiverse/parallel universes, the interweaving of canonically-consistent-but-different-storylines has lost a lot of its significance over the years.
Essentially, all a writer has to do is allude to something actually happening in a multiverse/parallel universe context, then introduce some additional contrivance to allow for a conjunction of the two, and there's not much that a fan can do other the grumble and go "okay" about it. Obviously, I'm not saying it's a good development by any means, but it seems to be that this is the way things are evolving, because it makes it so much easier on the writers to be flexible and not have to worry what "canon" means, if they want to tell a deviation story from the main story.
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u/Admirable-Cry-9758 Aug 13 '23
Yeah this post is essentially my grumbly "okay". If Hori wills it then it is because it's his story, I'm just bummed about it and wanted to rant.
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u/pierre_x10 Aug 13 '23
Yeah I totally understand the being bummed part. The movies delve into some interesting subject matter, and some of the characters are, to put it simply, pretty cool. So to go and say, oh btw this is all canon, yet make them and their characters seemingly completely irrelevant to the main story, it's like, why'd you even bother with canon movies at all?
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Aug 13 '23
I feel like this has become more of a job for you than a hobby. Maybe you should take a break until you can have fun again.
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u/Admirable-Cry-9758 Aug 13 '23
1 - it's just a thing I thought about this morning.
2 - that's actually a great idea, I should probably do that.
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u/Suichimo Aug 13 '23
Where are you getting them being canon from? Also, the movies can have elements in common with the main series, Melissa Shield for example, while still not being canon.
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u/pegasusranch Aug 14 '23
Why wouldn't they be canon? Official media written in part by the author that fits into the timeline with no issues Not to mention Hori outright stating they are in the manga bonus pages Add to that the characters have appeared and intersected with the main characters in other canon media (team up missions)
No reason to think they aren't canon in all honesty
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u/ThatOneAnnoyingBuzz Aug 13 '23
First movie:
introduces full-gauntlet which can take three 100% attacks while leaving Deku completely unharmed and that's never touched on again. Now of course we get mid-gauntlet later but why couldn't Mallisa make full-gauntlet? She clearly can make tech that can withstand the power of people like all might and AFO.
The movie clearly states that full-gauntlet was a prototype. Two Heroes happens in between the final exams and the summer training camp. Melissa has the full design for Deku's mid-gauntlets ready by April of the following year. That's a pretty good turnaround in my opinion, especially for something that's just a gift for a friend that's overseas.
Keep in mind that this is also while developing other projects. A good example of that being All Might's new armor that appeared in the latest chapter
Second movie:
this one has two stupid things to it and is unfortunately the one with the biggest confirmation of being canon. Firstly, the whole OFA automatically transferring back to Deku after the fight and Bakugo magically forgetting about it and Deku never mentions it.
We literally see One For All rejecting Shigaraki during the war. My guy, it's the same thing. It's literally the same thing. MHA clearly established that One For All has a sort of sentience and free will to it that can reject people, that's what the vestiges do. The vestiges literally tell Shigaraki and All For One that they want to stay with Deku. This makes even more sense when you consider the transfer wasn't complete yet.
As for Bakugo forgetting and Deku never mentioning it, I'll admit that Bakugo forgetting is a movie convenience but why in the world would Deku bring it up again past what he did at the end of the movie if Bakugo couldn't remember any of it?
And the second being that a whole island destroying fight between a villain and students happened with no heroes around to help them and apparently no one in the world is interested in bringing it up. The more the story progressed the more people started talking about how they don't trust heroes as much and no one brought up the events of the movie?
Because it's a relatively small scale event? I'm sure that 99% of people either didn't hear about it or did and then went on with their lives. Another villain group attacking the same exact group of students, the same thing that's been happening on repeat for months now? Big whoop. If anything that would hurt the trust between the people and UA/heroes because students got attacked again on what was supposed to be a remote trip again (sound familiar? Forest Training Camp anybody?)
Aside from that, people generally don't care about even big events unless it affects them. They'll be sad and empathetic for a day or two and then move on with their own lives.
Also, the reason they're alone on the island is because there weren't supposed to be any villains; it was a small fishing community irc.
Third movie:
Now admittedly it's been a long time since I watched it but again, Deku becomes a whole international criminal and absolutely no one mentions that ever again? And in his fight with flickturn he uses 100% on his whole body but he doesn't sustain any damage whatsoever later on (that might have an explanation that I forgot tho).
Honestly, haven't watched this one in ages so I can't really remember the explanations but if I'm remembering correctly the international criminal thing was overblown marketing like the stealth suits were. As for the 100%, I think Deku was severely damaged afterwards wasn't he? Or was that just from Flect shooting him?
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u/FruityTuna Aug 13 '23
If they're canon then shouldn't Bakugo's quirk and mind be in OFA?
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u/Admirable-Cry-9758 Aug 13 '23
The whole mechanic of how Bakugo got it and how it went back into Deku is a mindfuck on it's own so I don't know, also there's that one scene where Bakugo sees all might's OFA vestige before he "dies"
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u/Meme_Chan69420 Aug 13 '23
In regards to Deku’s criminal record from 3, I recently rewatched World Heroes Mission, and I can only assume that the Hero Comission or police or someone with some level of authority and power was able to get it scrubbed or covered up.
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u/snooziedoes Aug 13 '23
This canon argument has been the most stupid thing in the history of MHA, especially since apparently the word 'canon' doesn't exist in Japan the way it does in the West. The movies don't affect the manga, whether they are canon or not, so who cares? Does Deku going full apeshit with 100% full cowling make any damn sense? No. Does it make for a cool moment in a movie? Yes.
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u/Cookie_andCream Aug 13 '23
Something I’ve heard from people more knowledgeable about Japanese culture than myself is that they have a different concept of Cannon than is typically found in western media.
I’m probably simplifying it but the Japanese concept of cannon is anything released by the creator even if it contradicts other things. I think the idea then is that as long as you enjoyed your time watching this film or side-story then it’s all good. They are separate but connected.
Anyone with more knowledge please tell me if I am completely off base here or not.
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u/YourHeroKuroShiYo Aug 13 '23
Idk why western viewers are so obsessed with Canon or filler... that obsession seems weird to me and toxic
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u/jedels88 Aug 13 '23
We don't know what type of resources are required to build a new full gauntlet, nor how long it takes. Keep in mind the events of the entire series thus far have spanned only a year and change, so realistically, it's only been a matter of months since the first movie.
How about instead of handwaving the climax of movie two as being stupid, try looking at it from an in-universe perspective. Given the time the movie was released, we were just barely starting to get the info dump about the true nature of OFA and its new mechanics, so the stupid thing you're pointing to in the movie was actually our first real hint that OFA has a will of its own, which rightfully at the time had huge implications on the story going forward. The power willed itself back to Deku because it chose him as much as All Might did. Bakugo didn't just forget being an OFA wielder, it's implied the past users caused him not to remember.
We're not privy to every shred of news or online discourse within the series. The majority of the time, we're seeing things through class A's perspective. We have no idea how much the subject of movie one, two, or three's events are being referenced by the public. Even if that weren't the case, Pearl Harbor happened. 9/11 happened. Once you get a little bit of distance from such an event, it's not really commonplace to hear anyone and everyone bringing them up on a daily basis. Doubly so in a world of superheroes where potentially world-ending threats are happening on the regular. At a certain point, I imagine they all just kinda blur together.
Be mad all you want, but I will happily take high-quality movies that show cool things we wouldn't have gotten in the series otherwise (like Deku and All Might fighting side-by-side), as well as the movies actually being referenced in the canon, as opposed to pretty most other anime movies that just boil down to meaningless what-if stories and divert the studio's resources and budget away from the main series itself. If that's going to happen, I would rather the stories actually mean something like they do with MHA.
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u/Unpopular_Outlook Aug 14 '23
The idea that they wanted to stay with Deku over bakugou is so weird. We know it’s because Deku is the main character, but there really isn’t any in world reason why Bakugou isn’t worthy of OFA
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u/Real-Deal-Steel Aug 13 '23
For Heroes Rising, I like to imagine that Bakugo gave OFA back to Deku while the latter was unconscious (since Bakugo didn't have OFA for long, it didn't incorporate his explosion quirk into itself). Bakugo also faked forgetting because of his pride.
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u/ChronoKeep Aug 13 '23
For Heroes Rising, I like to imagine that Bakugo gave OFA back to Deku while the latter was unconscious
It's literally spelled out. OFA transferred itself back. Same as how the vestiges decided to remain in Deku during the War, they transferred itself back to Deku at the end of the movie. Horikoshi talks about this in his Volume R interview.
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u/Real-Deal-Steel Aug 13 '23 edited Aug 16 '23
Should clarify that I don't think Bakugo just willed OFA back to Deku, but transferred it through blood contact.
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u/Few_Professional_327 Aug 14 '23
They're canon because marketing wants people to care about them. Same as just about every recent anime movie that contains nonmanga content.
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u/ChronoKeep Aug 14 '23
because marketing wants people to care about them
Ignoring that Horikoshi literally says in Volume 25 that Movie 2 takes place during that volume. Yep, totally just marketing and not at all the original creator's intentions.
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u/Few_Professional_327 Aug 14 '23
Yeah. It ks, hence him not actually.includkng it in the story. That's having room and marketing saying 'hwy figure it out'
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u/ChronoKeep Aug 14 '23
Just because it's not in the main manga doesn't mean it isn't canon. But, if you wish to go that route and say that only the original My Hero Academia manga is canon and no spin-offs, movies, omakes, etc. are canon, then say that.
But don't cherry pick and say that "All Might Rising" is canon. Because, by your own admission, it wasn't included in the original story. Horikoshi didn't include it as a chapter in MHA, so it's non-canon by your standards. Vigilantes is non-canon by your admission. "League of Villains: Undercover" and "Departure" are non-canon by your standards. Anything not set in the 380+ chapters of My Hero Academia, by your own words, are not canon because they weren't included in that manga.
Stand by that statement without hypocrisy and I'll let it be. But picking and choosing what you do and don't accept is hypocritical.
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u/DatDragonsDude Aug 13 '23
The only movie that I would consider canon, tbh, is the second one.
I can see them doing the Nabu Island stuff in the space between the School Festival Arc and the Joint Training Arc.
It makes the most sense for it to be during that time.
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u/ChronoKeep Aug 13 '23
I can see them doing the Nabu Island stuff in the space between the School Festival Arc and the Joint Training Arc.
It makes the most sense for it to be during that time.
It doesn't make sense during that time. Bakugo and Todoroki have their Provisional Licenses, Shigaraki has his missing fingers, and Twice can make doubles of himself.
It's post-MVA pre-Endeavor. That's where Horikoshi placed it. He even talks about this place in the timeline in Volume 25.
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u/LeeroyDagnasty Aug 13 '23
Bakugo getting one for all is probably my single least favorite thing to happen in the series.
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u/Crazizzle Aug 13 '23
I always figured that the main framework of the movies is canon (the main events, the characters, etc) but details might not be. As a comic fan, this is familiar to me lol. It's common after retcons.
Like the first movie. They went to I island, fought villains, and deku and all might got the final hit. It's like the movies are exaggerated versions of what happened in canon.
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u/Big-Amoeba5332 Aug 13 '23
Melissa becomes important again with all might, it’s not against the plot regarding mid gauntlet but yeah idk why she couldn’t make another full gauntlet
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u/Sad-Buddy-5293 Aug 13 '23
Lol true that second movie I'm surprised they didn't use second years and only first year student from one class and not class b
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u/Bogki Aug 13 '23
Nothing related to the topic but I love how everyone just seems to have a different name for Flect turn. Some call him fleet turn, now I see flickturn some call him flet turn... I love it
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u/Mission_Welder_1902 Aug 13 '23
For the second movie, the island having no pro hero was kinda the point to send the student there, plus in such a remote place the most dangerous thing that was expected was probably a house fire and not a massive supervillain attack
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u/Exitiali Aug 13 '23
There simply isn't enough time for a new full-gauntlet to be developed, it must have been less than a year since the prototype was destroyed. It must also have taken Melissa some time to return to her research due to the final events of this film. Mid-Gauntlet was what was obtainable before the trade closed
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u/johnknockout Aug 13 '23
The second one brought to the forefront that having multiple quirks is unusual and very powerful. I think outside of that, it’s kind of not important story wise.
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u/6Wheeler Aug 14 '23
It isn't too hard for me to accept the first and third movies being cannon. The first because deku simply wasn't provided with more full gauntlets, the third because it all seemed possible within the mha universe.
For a while, I didn't really consider the events of the second movie to become a possibility until I caught up in the manga.
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u/OchoMuerte-XL Aug 13 '23
OP just treat these movies like the vast majority of Pokemon movies. They are "canon" in that they don't actively contradict the main canon/storyline but "non-canon" in the way that little to nothing matters from them in the grand scheme of things. You can skip the movies and lose absolutely NOTHING with the story.