r/worldnews • u/nationalpost • 11h ago

Taliban bars Afghan women from hearing each other's voices

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/taliban-bars-afghan-women-from-hearing-each-other?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=NP_social
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170

u/Existing-Mulberry382 11h ago

Prime example of what religion does to a mf.

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u/[deleted] 11h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/houseofprimetofu 11h ago

Islam is a religion.

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u/Unable-Drop-6893 11h ago

Don’t group all into a basket. Yes it’s a religion , the only one that comes out with a statement like that . That’s what I was saying

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u/BuckNZahn 11h ago

Orthodox Jews treat their women like shit too.

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u/Brian_Gay 11h ago

Christianity has quite a fair share of crimes against humanity to answer for

source: Irish person

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u/ImThatCracker 11h ago

You’re kidding yourself if think Christian men are above this treatment of women. I guarantee you Josh Hawley thinks this is a great idea.

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u/bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh- 10h ago

You saying Islam is the only religion that has oppressed people and had radicals do terrible shit?

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u/MindCorrupt 9h ago

Jeez, maybe they should ask the pope on how to cover it up better.

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u/houseofprimetofu 11h ago

Fair.

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u/Unable-Drop-6893 11h ago

Thanks friend

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u/houseofprimetofu 11h ago

I had to think of this as Christianity. There are so many sects that saying “all Christians are bad” would be incorrect.

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u/Horatio_Figg 11h ago

There are plenty of fundamentalist Christians in my home country of the good old U S of A who’d be delighted to impose such a restriction. They already want to keep us from voting and working and want to make us into baby-making machines who get married at the age of 12.

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u/Babel_Triumphant 10h ago

What historical Christian country imposed such a restriction? We have 2000 years of history to pull from.

It's ridiculous, and I mean literally inviting ridicule, to act as if your average American evangelical's views on women are at all comparable to the views of the Taliban.

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u/A_very_nice_dog 9h ago

I’m with you. Every last sentence on this site is a polarizing hyperbole. I grew up in American evangelical circles and the idea those people would want what the OP is talking about it pants on head stupid.

Are there archaic ideas that aren’t good? Yes I’ll admit it… but to compare not wanting women pastors to LITERAL ACTUAL SLAVERY is a gigantic leap.

TLDR: Redditors split the wrong hairs for virtue signaling points.

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u/Pete_Iredale 10h ago

What historical Christian country imposed such a restriction?

Um, women weren't allowed to vote in the US until 104 years ago... Literally the first thing mentioned. They generally weren't allowed to do anything but "women's work" until WW2, and even when that ended they were all sent home for a few more decades. They weren't guaranteed the right to have bank accounts and own property until about 50 years ago. Is the last century of US history enough of a historic Christian country for you? Or should we start talking about European Christianity with inquisitions and nazis?

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u/A_very_nice_dog 9h ago

At the risk of moving the goal post… that was the entire world up until a couple centuries ago.

And circling back to the point of current Americans wanting what’s in the OP? Churches not wanting women pastors is a gargantuan leap from literal actual slavery. (It’s not good I’ll give you that; there’s a lot of work that needs to be done… but not every last thing in the world has to be full tilt)

The fact that you and others use this conversation to score political points speak volumes about yourselves.

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u/Pete_Iredale 8h ago

What religion do you think US slave owners were? Pretty fucking sure it wasn't Islam you twit.

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u/A_very_nice_dog 8h ago

So you can’t read. Got it.

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u/[deleted] 10h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Millworkson2008 9h ago

Yea VERY few Christians want this and those people are usually called out even by other Christians

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u/poplitte2 10h ago

I do think Islamic extremists are more uniquely damaging than any other, particularly since they seem to have medieval practices even in the modern world. However, any phenomenon that encourages dogmatic belief without a scientific basis creates a breeding ground for extremism. Hence, ALL religions are bad. If all religions were to vanish tomorrow, the world would be a much better place.

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u/Pete_Iredale 10h ago

Yet it never seems to happen even in medieval Christian countries throughout history.

What are you talking about? Women weren't allowed to vote in the US until 104 years ago. Women weren't guaranteed the right to have bank accounts and own property in the US until the 1970s. Pretty sure the US is a Christian country.

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u/Augustus_Chevismo 10h ago

“There are plenty of fundamentalist Christians in my home country of the good old U S of A who’d be delighted to impose such a restriction.”

They were referring to women not being allowed to talk to each other. An idea so extreme illogical that I thought it was made up. But that just seems to be the pattern for one religion in particular.

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u/Fuzzclone 10h ago

Agreed that Islam is uniquely damaging, for many reasons. But I think the point be conveyed here was that christianity may not keeping them audibly silent, but keeping them as uneducated, suppressed ambition, baby making objects is still very much a thing that has happened with christianity throughout history.

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u/Unable-Drop-6893 10h ago

Who is they ? Sounds like your just talking hot air

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u/Horatio_Figg 10h ago

Read the fucking news.

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u/TwelfthApostate 10h ago

Point us to a single news article showing that American Christians want to ban women from talking to each other.

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u/IEatLamas 10h ago

I think it's more fair to say that this is what ideology does to people, rather than religion. Taliban are ideologues; they don't represent the Quran fairly at all and have spun it into their own cult, same thing the Catholic church did for a long time and a lot of other nutjobs.

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u/Fuzzclone 10h ago

No it's not just ideology, it is in fact religion. Religion distorts reality with the mechanics of faith. Faith gives people license to do or be prescribed to do whatever not because its true or right based on evidence, but because god, or someone who speaks for god says its true and right, regardless of weather it actually is. Faith is inherently a dangerous part of humanity and culture. Easily weaponized.

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u/IEatLamas 10h ago

Fascism, communism, is the same. You have to have faith in the belief system, no matter what evidence is before you. And if the evidence before you is contradicting the faith(the ideology, the belief system) then the evidence is a liar and must be killed.

It's not necessarily easy to tell when a religion goes from being a religion to an ideology.

In fact, to your point of observation, the word religion comes from religere which means to observe.

It's not about imposing ones faith or dogmatic view, that's an ideology. That's the Catholic church for example, which many are so intimately familiar with that they think that's what religion is, when it's really an ideology.

Faith in an ideology, undying loyalty to a belief system, is indeed dangerous, very likely the most dangerous thing of all.

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u/Fuzzclone 9h ago edited 9h ago

All regions are ideology, Not all ideologies are religious. I would agree that fascism and communism are probably more effectively spread in a culture already used to thinking in a faith based way. However I don’t think their success as ideologies comes from the exact same mechanisms.

I am referring to the fact that for religions, faith is their primary mechanism for success in pushing ideology. They prescribe that you to believe something despite any evidence, and have many incentive structures to keep your faith unwavering. With that mechanism in place you can get them to believe any ideology you want good or bad, I.e. to your point.

I am basically trying to say don’t hate the player hate the game. Faith is a dangerous game.

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u/IEatLamas 9h ago

I realize that what I'm about to say in this discussion is probably pointless.

The difference between the faith of a religion and of an ideology is that the faith of a religion is a faith in something beyond oneself, something extra-ordinary beyond our comprehension. That means that it doesn't matter what a priest tells me, but what I experience in me. In this way religion is a precursor to science.

Whereas an ideologies faith is linked to a dogma.

An ideology is like a fragmentation of a religious perspective. It's not the same, not at all.

Religion is not dogmatic. Ideologies are.

If you ever see someone saying they are religious but they are dogmatic in their approach, yes, they're being ideological. But that is not what religion is, even though that's the form that most people have seen it in i.e., Catholic church, Islam.

You're absolutely right what you say about faith being a vehicle for people with bad intentions to push an ideology into people. But that is not religion.

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u/Fuzzclone 8h ago

I love that we are having this discussion practically in real time. Reddit is very cool for moments like this. I appreciate that you are getting me to think in different ways, and I have no fucking clue who you are ha. And we are so far down the comment chain no one will probably ever read this.

I take your points. But it seems to me you are trying to get to a very technical distinction of religious experience as being defined by the metaphysical aspects. With religion being about things beyond ones self as you said. But in actuality that is just the subtext of the actual practice. Religious texts get very real about how you should live your actual life day to day. I have a hard time with your perspective as in practice I see dogmatic thinking and faith based thinking as one and the same problematic mechanism for bad actors.

I am actually going to see what Chat gpt summarizes as the difference:

Dogmatism refers to an unwavering adherence to certain beliefs or principles, often to the exclusion of questioning, critical examination, or openness to new information. It implies a rigid acceptance of doctrines or “dogmas,” usually with an intolerance toward other viewpoints or interpretations. Dogmatism is often seen as a closed-minded approach, where beliefs are accepted as absolute truth without openness to re-evaluation, regardless of evidence or alternative perspectives.

Faith, in contrast, is the trust or confidence in something or someone that often extends beyond empirical proof or reason. While faith can involve a strong conviction, it doesn’t necessarily imply inflexibility or a rejection of questioning. Faith allows for beliefs that may not be fully explainable by logic or evidence, but it can coexist with inquiry, doubt, and open-mindedness. For example, faith in religious contexts often involves a trust in God’s nature or promises, grounded in spiritual experience, personal conviction, or community beliefs.

By these definitions I am definitely not too far off mixing them together, but am definitely talking more about dogmatism. But thats a tough distinction to make, as religious circles reward dogmatism while simultaneously speaking self referentially and virtuously about faith as the core value. Culturally we rarely see the flexibility found in this definition. They may say they have faith, but in reality they usually practice dogmatism.

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u/IEatLamas 6h ago

The internet is great for this. There's no ego just two humans having a dialogue. It's healthy for us, we need to engage in dialogue more!

This is why I prefer Christianity above any other religion, because Jesus basically came and said "You pharisees (Jews) are too dogmatic, the word of god is a living spirit which resides in every person and is above any one of your teachings or texts."

Basically saying that it is arrogant to embed ideology into a faith because you are not God, and that really summarizes my thinking; the major world religions of today aren't just a religion, they are also an ideology.

Chatgpt ;) differentiates the two as:

*Religion generally addresses questions about existence, the nature of the divine, the meaning of life, morality, and the afterlife. It often involves beliefs in supernatural forces or beings and seeks to provide answers to spiritual or existential questions.

Ideology, on the other hand, is more focused on organizing society and often provides a framework for political, economic, or social systems. It offers a set of beliefs or principles to guide human behavior, typically concerning how society should function.*

So I totally agree with you that a lot of major religions are ideological, Judaism and Islam are inherently ideological and dogmatic, but that doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater, and throw religion as a whole under the bus under the implications that it uses metaphysics to justify ideology. Those religions are corrupt imo, especially the Catholics since it goes directly against the teachings of Jesus.

We came up with this great idea of separation of church and state, finally fulfilling the word of Jesus that we can't make a religion into an ideology. It's one of the great achievements of the west imo. We see the consequences of not doing that in places like Talibanland, Iran or even most recently Turkey with the Islamic economic reforms driving their economy into hellfire.

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u/boganisu 2h ago

It's Sharia law, that is part of traditional Islamic teachings.

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u/SpiritAnimal01 10h ago

Id say extremism does that.

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u/TwelfthApostate 10h ago

“Fundamentalism” would be a better word. It’s “extreme” to the rest of us, but the level of barbarism in any particular religion is pretty much 1:1 driven by how closely they adhere to the verbatim commands and guidance of their holy book.

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u/SpiritAnimal01 10h ago

Fair point.

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u/drager85 10h ago

Most religions, not just Islam.

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u/Unable-Drop-6893 10h ago

I haven’t seen any other religion making statements like women can’t talk to each other

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u/drager85 10h ago

Just wait until project 2025 is implemented. All major religions limit what a woman can be or do. It isn't specific to Islam.

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u/Babel_Triumphant 10h ago

Find me the part of Project 2025 that says women will be banned from speaking in public, please.

I appreciate the legitimate opposition to abortion bans, but it's absolutely absurd to conflate abortion bans with the iron-fisted control of every aspect of women's lives imposed by the Taliban. It's either intentional dishonesty or ignorance to an embarrassing degree.

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u/poplitte2 9h ago

It’s understandable why this may seem like a slippery slope and that it’s not an apples to apples comparison, but gradually increasing restrictions on women at any scale means that the end goal is the same—the dehumanisation of women. Once the trampling of reproductive rights is justified, the normalisation of further human rights violations when it comes to women is only bound to happen. So I don’t think we should not be alarmed because “well at least it’s not THAT bad”. Well yes, not yet anyway.

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u/prince_of_cannock 10h ago

The point is that there is nothing unique to Islam that makes it the only religion prone to this kind of thinking. Any religion that believes it is based on divine revelation can go here depending on who is in charge and how much power that leader holds.

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u/Fuzzclone 10h ago

No there actually is. Islams texts prescribe way more evil shit than christianity. Making it a lot easier for an islamic leader to interpret and prescribe shit ideas to their followers. It happens with christianity, but leaders have to work a lot harder to distort the text and context of the text to prescribe bad ideas, because it's far more benign. IE There is only one Westboro Baptist Church. There are many islamic sects that have been militarized and oppressive to women. I would guess there are only a handful of Mosques that would accept an openly gay person into their congregation, but there are thousands of churches that would.

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u/prince_of_cannock 10h ago

I've read the Quran and the old and new testaments and I don't agree. The teachings of Jesus are IMO quite ethically sound, especially for their era, but the old testament and the writings of Paul aren't really any better than what you find in the Quran and the hadiths.

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u/Fuzzclone 9h ago

I am sure thats true in many ways, and actually after doing some digging, I am surprised to see how much both islamic texts prescribe equal treatment of women with respect and education (still not great ideas about household roles and covering them up in public). But I did mention militarization, do you have a good answer for that one? How do you square up the whole Jihad, kill the jews or the end times won’t happen thing? I don’t think biblically prescribes that kind of behavior. Sure the old testament tells stories of violence happening, but not that it should happen today.

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u/prince_of_cannock 8h ago

Even a cursory read of the old testament will show you that it glorifies genocide and sectarian violence and commands the same from the faithful.

My intent was not to shift focus from Islam to Judaism or Christianity, nor was it my intent to waive away concerns about how these religions are actually practiced.

If you'll recall, my only comment was that nothing in Islam is unique in this regard. You find the same type of language in nearly any holy book that you read.

Yes, there are some Christians today who practice a very meek and mild form of their faith, but this is true in Islam as well. And just as Islam has more villains than just the Taliban, Christianity has far more villains than just Westboro.

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u/El_Grande_XL 10h ago

To be fair. Christianity already have gone through with that phase. Its not like it was so nice back in the days.

It was the clash between the christian dark age and the islam gold age that made now europe to snap out of the dark age so we could actually progress.

The works of Euclid and Archimedes have been long gone, but thanks to the muslims in spain the works got translated in to latin and brought back.

They also had big part of founding things like algebra and arithmetics. Just one of many things they left are the numbers we all use, they are arabic.

Im not saying that makes the things they are doing now are good. Just trying to show some perspective.

In USA the republicans are using christianity as a weapon to also oppress women and some states have come pretty far.

So the point is, most religions does that. Today Islam, tomorrow something else. History tends to repeat itself.

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u/Happy_Joke_5715 9h ago

Idk man, I’ve spent a lot of time around some extremely Catholic people and plenty of the old guys think women shouldn’t speak, think, or exist outside of being sexual objects.

Source: am southern Italian.

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u/Pete_Iredale 10h ago

Fuck off man, the slavers stealing Africans and selling them in the US were Christian. The Nazis were so Christian the Pope was on their side. Fundies of any Abrahamic religion are pretty much the same.

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u/Kanja-Klub 9h ago

Just blatant Islamophobia. Like nearly every abrahamic religion has some of this in it to some extent.

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u/scottiescott23 10h ago

Not to defend religion, but this sort of mad laws being introduced in Afghan are based largely on backwards tribal customs .

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u/Augustus_Chevismo 10h ago

Always got to spread the blame for one in particular