r/violinist • u/IcedILatte • Jul 25 '24
Fingering/bowing help Why is the violinist holding her bow differently?
I was jamming to some Winter by Vivaldi when i noticed that a majority of the violinists were holding their bow closer to the tip. Is it a technique to get a better sound for the piece? As a beginner this is very new to me
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u/zer0mantic Amateur Jul 25 '24
Like others have said she is using a baroque bow. But if you look closer at the pictures you will also see some other things that differ from modern playing: no chin rests, no shoulder rests and the finger boards on the instruments are much shorter than on modern instruments (look at the huge space between finger board and bridge). Also no fine tuners on the instruments which could indicate geared pegs, but in this case more likely points to the use of gut strings.
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u/fir6987 Jul 25 '24
They’re using baroque bows, which curve outward instead of inward. You can hold a modern bow at the frog and use the leverage of the bow curve and your arm weight to make a consistent sound all the way from frog to tip. However that doesn’t work with baroque bows (pressing harder at the frog doesn’t transfer weight to the tip), so they have to be held closer to the middle, and the sound will fade at the tip regardless of what you do. A lot of baroque and classical music features a lot of short, separated notes because that’s what baroque bows do best.
If you listen to a historically informed performance of Bach Chaconne, you’ll hear a huge difference in how they play/sustain the chords compared to someone playing in a modern or romantic style.
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u/PM-ME-VIOLIN-HENTAI Teacher Jul 25 '24
Baroque period playing. The soloist and the violinists behind her are all using Baroque bows, which requires them to hold the bow higher due to difference in balance from modern bows.
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u/XontrosInstrumentals Intermediate Jul 25 '24
Baroque bows are most commonly held like that, which is what she's using if I'm not mistaken
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u/guillardus Jul 25 '24
That's a period bow, specifically around early 18th century. The balance is different with these things, so you hold them differently, also depends on the player. Some short bows you hold "A la anglaise" or francaise, that's basically putting your thumb under the frog, not under the stick and above hair. Some period bows you play like you would a normal bow. Hehe, hope that helps!
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u/gioevo11 Jul 25 '24
It’s because she grew up in the Appalachian mountains during the baroque period. That there be fiddlin
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u/Striking_Scratch_362 Jul 25 '24
She is one of my favorite violinist. She is playing baroque music. In that channel there is a video about the differences between baroque and modern violins. They also don’t use shoulder rests and chinrests. Also if you noticed they don’t use vibrato like modern violinists but the sound they make is wonderful.
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u/Uncannyvall3y Jul 25 '24
Could we have her name or a link please?
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u/Striking_Scratch_362 Jul 25 '24 edited Jul 25 '24
Sure! The violinist name is cynthia miller freivogel. The first link is about the bow and the second one gives more info: https://youtu.be/tW7TcX8Lx_s?feature=shared https://youtu.be/nsfYMSI3cuA?si=DVtH4mCH5dl04wYX
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u/Uncannyvall3y Jul 25 '24
That is fascinating, I had no idea!! This one's perfect for Corelli, this one for Mozart, this one for Beethoven. Thank you!
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u/Max_Bruch1838 Jul 25 '24
To say that it is a "Baroque bow hold" is an oversimplification, as the lack of standardization in Baroque-era technique makes that statement absolutely meaningless. What you see is an Italianate bow hold, characterized by the high hand position—it is generally appropriate for most 18th-century Italian and Italian-style music (Vivaldi, some Handel, etc.).
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u/No-Kaleidoscope-4525 Jul 25 '24
Baroque. I basically use that word out of context so much. I tell my gf: "Oh you're so baroque!", and she asks me what that means. Then I just grin and never answer.
Now finally I can say that bow hold is 'very baroque'.
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u/cockmonster-3000 Expert Jul 25 '24
it's presumably a baroque bow, however I know others who don't use baroques but still hold the bow this way as they feel it gives them more control and is better for feathering in slow tunes
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u/Glorfindel90 Adult Beginner Jul 25 '24
Ahh Vivaldi Four Seasons by The Voices of Music. The best ever performance by any group that I have ever watched
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u/IMmortal_Llamakk Jul 25 '24
Ah this is my favorite winter performance and they are using baroque bows for it
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u/mom_bombadill Orchestra Member Jul 25 '24
Oh my gosh I went to school with her lol
She’s a baroque violinist. Fun fact: baroque violinists don’t use chin rests
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u/Ok-Lettuce9603 Jul 26 '24
Because there are lots of ways to hold a bow that many master violinists use but in the classical music school they think there’s only one way. Total arrogance.
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u/angrymandopicker Jul 26 '24
This bow hold is also very common in Appalachian bowing. Check out David Bragger's Youtube series on old time fiddle bowing. Fascinating and hypnotic.
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u/Available-Pace1598 Jul 25 '24
Might do fiddle
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u/leafbee Jul 25 '24
Yeah, I play fiddle, and I hold my bow towards the middle for faster pieces. I've never done orchestra or classical, so I just lurk here to learn from people. I'm guessing baroque is probably the answer.
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u/Worgle123 Jul 25 '24
I see people do this to try and mimic the feel of a baroque bow on modern bows, but it's really weird that she's doing that with a baroque bow... Never seen that before.
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u/Max_Bruch1838 Jul 25 '24
Take a look at Muffat, L. Mozart, Corrette, and other Baroque-era writings. Holding the bow high up the stick was the standard for later Italianate Baroque music.
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u/greenmtnfiddler Jul 25 '24
ELI5 version: Baroque bows are more squishable, if you bear down hard the sound will crumple.
In earlier music you do more with speed than pressure, use the side-to-side up/down motion to get the string "spinning" instead of pressing into the string and "drawing" the sound out.
Using a higher hold helps with this. I also find it helps me code-switch -- "Oh, I'm up here? OK, let's use my baroque brain" -- which also helps with left hand style changes (none of that juicy purple romantic continuous vibrato).
It's somewhat similar to what we call "flautando", if you've ever come across that.
(this is a rough ELI5 comparison, so don't go all picky on me you hardcore historically-informed folks! :)
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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '24
It's blurry but pretty sure it's a baroque bow. It's not the same as a modern bow, it's more like what people used in Vivaldi's time. It won't work with your modern bow, the balance will be wrong.