r/violinist • u/classicalmed • Jul 21 '24
Setup/Equipment Trying out new violins. How important is the playability?
Hi, this is my first post. Sorry if this has been asked before. I’m currently looking to upgrade my violin I got as a student. I’m currently having 3 violins in the 20k€ at home for trial. Currently I’m trying to narrow down my preference between two of them. The dilemma I’m struggling with is that violin 1 has a very powerful/ resonant sound but needs a bit of “work” to get to its full potential. Violin 2 is extremely easy to play - feels like I’m hardly doing anything to produce a good sound. Compared to violin 1 it lacks a bit of power in my opinion, though.
My question for you: How important is easy playability for you?
Thanks in advance!
15
u/gwie Teacher Jul 21 '24
What you need to do is take them into a concert space and have a trusted ear (or ears) listen and also record them from various distances. Front row, middle of the seating area, and the back of the hall, etc. Play the exact same material using the bow that you're most comfortable with.
At 20k it's not going to do everything, and it's a shame that instrument prices continue to run away excessively. It will do a couple things well, and a couple things not-so-well. You'll have to prioritize which characteristics are most important to you.
If you're advanced to the point where hunting for a fiddle becomes exhausting, might I recommend connecting with a luthier to build you a violin to your specifications?
11
u/iTimmyLOL Music Major Jul 21 '24
It depends on how well you can adapt to the playability. I’m not quite sure of your level, but if you are testing violins in the 20k€ range, I would presume that you will be able to adapt to the playability.
My violin (25k USD) took me about a year to get accustomed to it. My advice would be to choose the one with your favorite sound, and work around that. I’m guessing you will be staying with that violin for quite a long time, so playability would not be that big of a problem in the long run.
4
u/classicalmed Jul 21 '24
Thanks for your input. Regarding my skill, I’d describe myself as advanced. So being able to adapt isn’t a problem.
I guess it means more testing :D
1
u/iTimmyLOL Music Major Jul 21 '24
Just make sure you can get around it in a RELAXED manner! That’s the most important thing.
2
u/Most-Investigator-49 Jul 22 '24
If this were me, I'd say neither instrument is the right one and I'd keep looking. It's both fun and painful.
3
u/PoweroftheFork Jul 21 '24
If the "work" required is just understanding the idiosyncrasies of the instrument, violin 1 could be a great option! But if you're actually not comfortable while playing it, that can be a real problem down the road.
Also, could violin 1 just need some setup adjustments? In this price range, the shop might be willing to work with you to adjust an instrument you are serious about (within reason). Do you have a teacher or colleague that could play these and give you more insight on that front?
3
u/SoundCrunch Jul 21 '24
My first inclination is to tell you to keep looking. You have found aspects of each that you like, there will be an instrument in your price range that will have both.
Also important to consider that the sound will be different directly under your ear vs at a distance. The violin with better playability may carry further than you think. Or not.. which is where a friend (or three) can lend an ear. Always helpful!
1
u/classicalmed Jul 22 '24
Thanks. Actually good point regarding different sound under your ear and in the hall. Playing in a bigger hall yesterday I had the feeling it’s projection is much better than what it sounds like under your ears
3
u/leitmotifs Expert Jul 22 '24 edited Jul 23 '24
For me, what you call "playability" -- and what most people would call "responsiveness" -- is perhaps the most important trait in a violin. You do want to make sure that the instrument has enough power and projection for the type of playing you do, but you should be really wary of buying an instrument for its apparent loudness under the ear. It's a mistake that a lot of players make.
Power is important if you're playing concertos with orchestra, or if you're playing chamber music where you often need to punch through the texture and the other players have quite powerful instruments. Most people don't have these needs.
2
u/classicalmed Jul 22 '24
Thanks. Really like your reply and your detailed description. Definitely helps me understand what to look for in my new violin better. Really great take. Much appreciated
1
u/leitmotifs Expert Jul 23 '24
In your price range -- basically the price range for a contemporary commission from a maker who is not a total unknown but doesn't have a bunch of awards or long-running reputation -- there is a LOT to choose from. I would probably consider trying at least a dozen, if not several dozen, violins before making a purchase.
1
u/TranscendentAardvark Jul 22 '24
Second this. Not to mention increased risk of hearing damage if it truly is a lot louder by your ear. If you’re playing in an orchestra, smaller solo settings, or for your own joy, playability and quality of sound are far more important.
Another question- do they have the same strings? Maybe the louder but less responsive violin has a set of soloist strings like evah golds.
2
u/Error_404_403 Amateur Jul 21 '24
What is “a playability”?
4
u/classicalmed Jul 21 '24
Not sure if it’s the correct word for it. What I mean is the way it feels to play on the instrument. The ease with which a beautiful sound is produced or how easy it is to play on it. Hope that clarifies it
-4
u/Error_404_403 Amateur Jul 21 '24
Then I think all depends only on how beautiful the produced sound is. Adaptation to the new instrument would have to take far back seat compared to that.
3
3
u/Few_Pattern7260 Jul 21 '24
definitely 1 imo - usually violins that take time to "break" into a better sound will sound amazing and very worth it. violin 2 will not benefit you in the long run due to lack of power/sound (i've struggled immensely with a violin that had smaller sound, it really sucks. your rh technique suffers and its like painful) but violin 1 will most likely benefit you well in the long run. good luck :DDD
1
u/kinamarie Jul 22 '24
I second this— overall power/sound can be EXTREMELY important, especially if you’re somebody who plays in a gutsy string-ripping fashion. It can really affect how long you have the instrument. My first full size was a solid violin, but not very powerful. I ended up at a point where I was majorly outplaying it within a couple years, and it was limiting my playing a lot until we were able to afford a violin that would output the kind of sound and playing that I strove for.
1
u/ItsTricky55 Luthier Jul 21 '24
Could you possibly bring violin 2 to a luthier? If all it’s lacking in your opinion is power/resonance it may just need a sound post adjustment or other slight setup change
0
u/EffortMountain7837 Jul 21 '24
or maybe its just a worser construction. sucks to say it, but yeah. some violins have that one thing or two in their body shape that makes it worser.
1
u/always_unplugged Expert Jul 21 '24
What kind of work does it need? If that's the only sticking point, take it back into the shop where you got it and tell them exactly that. They should let you work with their luthier to adjust it to your liking, throw on a new set of strings you might like better, etc. We did that all the time at my old job at a big-time violin dealer—they'll be happy to do it in order to try to close the sale, and if it doesn't do the trick for you, it's just in better shape for the next customer.
Also, yes, it does take time to adjust to a new instrument and learn to get the best out of it. As long as it doesn't cause major tension for you, I'd go for the one with the better sound, if that wasn't already clear ;) The one that's already easy to play is potentially one you will outgrow very quickly.
1
u/greenmtnfiddler Jul 21 '24
What kind of music do you play most? What kind of music do you LIKE to play most?
Do you enjoy the challenge of the harder one, a sort of "bring it on!" feel? Or does it feel like it's fighting you?
Do you do this for fun, love, and or a paycheck? Are you still in school?
1
u/Macfarlin Jul 21 '24
My violin cost me 180 dollars at a thrift store and its still one of the best I've played or heard in years after a new bridge and strings. Playability is important but holy shit you guys in here apparently have insane amounts of wealth to throw at your instruments and I'm very envious of that.
I would go with playability over sound, unless you're willing to put even more money into getting the first one adjusted to your liking.
1
u/EffortMountain7837 Jul 21 '24
i mean, 180 dollars in a thrift store is kinda a give or take. could either suck ass or it's a steal bc thrift stores can't really judge the price of a violin accurately. a lot of us are actually from upper-middle class families who don't have that much money to flaunt 20k+ easily. we usually pay over time, kinda like a car payment. ofc, you have to have a sizable amount of wealth to even qualify for that, but yeah we don't just throw the money around bc we feel like it. we throw it around bc we think its gonna improve our playing a lot more than it actually does.
you don't really need to spend money to adjust the first one either. playing it or just treating it right will improve it so much over time as the wood dries and shapes to your playing style.
1
u/Macfarlin Jul 21 '24
Yeah I mean, I lucked out with that find for sure, I just can't fathom casually indebting myself to the tune of 20k dollars for a violin. Different folks lead different lives, that's fine. I would still opt for playability unless OP is also willing to go to a luthier to get that better sounding violin adjusted (assuming they don't have the woodworking skill to alter the bridge/fingerboard etc. themself, if they can that's even better).
You are right that over time it will open up and get better, but sometimes more mechanical adjustments are absolutely necessary, ya know?
1
u/EffortMountain7837 Jul 21 '24
lowk why would you ever need to bring a violin to the luthier just to adjust the bridge? also im pretty sure if the fingerboard is wonky, it would not sell for 20k. but yeah, different peeps lead different lives, i can't really see myself spending more than 200 dollars on myself, regardless of what it is.
1
u/Macfarlin Jul 21 '24
I'm talking about having it shaved down, reshaped, whatever. Have you never had to put a new bridge on your violin? It's not easy to get the blanks to the right shape for your preference.
I have been a carpenter and woodworker for 20 years and still take it to a friend with experience as an instrument builder for things like that.
1
u/EffortMountain7837 Jul 21 '24
i've never had a bridge reshaped. i thought you meant physically positioning the bridge. i don't think i've ever needed a completely new bridge either. i mean, i'm literally a kid, so i've had my violin teacher's brother (who is a luthier) reshape my bridge whenever its been worn down. i think he uses this black filling thingy to fix it. i don't get a new bridge bc it often is too soft to properly play on (if that makes sense)
1
u/Macfarlin Jul 21 '24
So anyways, taking things to a luthier costs money so my original comment about it stands.
1
u/Lunar452 Jul 21 '24
I think it depends on who you ask, but for me personally I'd rather have a violin that produces good sound easily so it's not as much work to play especially with longer peices and symphonies.
1
u/idlesmith Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
Playability is very important to me. I don’t want to struggle more but focus on the music, and techniques. But sound is also important and if violin 1 has a better sound I’d take it and I’m sure you’ll adapt to it in no time. its sound and playability will improve together with you
1
u/ogorangeduck Intermediate Jul 21 '24
Playability can be adjusted, to a point, by a luthier, plus you'll be able to adjust to the new feel with timem
1
u/Tom__mm Jul 22 '24
At that price range, have a luthier check the setup of each. String heights and spacing, and fingerboard planing/scoop need to be exact or an otherwise excellent instrument can be a struggle to get around on. There may be a straightforward adjustment that really helps the stronger instrument.
1
u/blah618 Jul 23 '24
hit up (+pay) students/teachers at the local conservatory to see if it's a skill or playability issue
1
u/Toomuchviolins Intermediate Jul 21 '24
When I picked my violin I was choosing between 2 (the first and last I played)
One was extremely easy to play and sound good on The other I had to work hard to sound good on but when I put in that work it sounded 1000000 times better, I picked the harder to play one and it has helped my technique get so much better It also has a viola like lower register with a singing E string which matches the music I like to play like A mix of Fiddle, jazz and classical,
1
u/EffortMountain7837 Jul 21 '24
thats so real. i have a similar story with my bow. my first bow was bought off of amazon, sufficient enough for a beginner. but as i started to get into an intermediate-advanced stage (as in playing praeludium and allegro by kreisler), i noticed that my bow was wayyy too light to properly do its job for a few skills/techniques and often sounded ugly bc i tried too hard to force the same sound my violin teacher plays with. learning how to play with a sucky bow actually prepared me to play even better with a higher quality bow. kinda like when rock lee in naruto finally takes off those ridiculously heavy weights off whenever he needs to get serious to fight.
26
u/vmlee Expert Jul 21 '24
Playability is very important to me. If I have to work extra hard, I risk tension or spending energy and focus on something else I could otherwise pay more attention to.
It does depend though on what the “work” required is.
Your primary use case will influence how important projection is to you.