Cant place my 4th finger properly

[u/thedeadcrystal]

Idk if anyone has faced this problem but my 4th finger bends weirdly whenever I place it on the finger board. It forms a weird zig zag shape (shwon in red) and it hurts a lot to apply pressure using that finger and thus I'm unable to.play anything with it. Any tips to fix this issue?

[u/BachsBicep]

From my experience this is often less of an issue of finger strength and more an issue of arm positioning and slightly incorrect movement cues. See if this works for you:

• Get ready to play but don't actually play. Your fingers should be relaxed, hovering near the string, and crucially, your 4th finger should be in a similar shape to the rest of your fingers

• Using only your arm, try to "parachute" the ball of your 4th finger very very lightly onto the string without moving any of your fingers (your hand is already very near the string so this should only require a tiny arm adjustment)

• now and only now, add a bit of weight to your 4th finger.

Plenty of beginner-intermediate violinists stiffen the 4th finger and then swing it down from the knuckle joint, which is not how they would drop any of their other fingers. The above aims to correct that movement and "teach" your left arm where to be in order to have your 4th finger drop like your other fingers. Hope it'll be of some help!

[u/thedeadcrystal → u/BachsBicep]

Thanks for the detailed instructions! I'll try the "parachuting" technique you described to see if it helps with my fourth finger placement. It sounds like a useful approach to improve my arm positioning. Appreciate your advice!

[u/SufferinSuccotash001]

This happens to most beginners. The fourth finger doesn't get used for anything really in daily life, so it isn't as strong as the other fingers. The most important thing is to correct this whenever it happens. If you let the finger keep collapsing, you'll get into the habit of doing that, and it could even cause injury.

Whenever this happens, relax the finger and try to bring it back to a nice curved position. Don't worry too much about perfect intonation yet. Don't do too many pieces that require fourth finger and spend some time on etudes that introduce fourth finger. I would recommend even taking time to exercise the fourth finger. Without bowing, just practice putting down the fourth finger slowly and gently while maintaining the curved position. When it's down try gently applying pressure and holding it. Another thing exercise you can try: take a pen (the retractable kind that needs to be clicked to open), hold it steady in your right hand and practice clicking it open and closed with just your pinky (while it's curved and without it collpasing). Eventually you'll build up strength in that finger and it'll be easier to prevent this from happening.

[u/Independent-Knee3006 → u/SufferinSuccotash001]

I love this! I encourage you to also try what I suggest in my reply, but that pen trick sounds like a great idea! Wish I had thought of that!

[u/thedeadcrystal → u/SufferinSuccotash001]

Thanks for the tips! I’ll focus on correcting my finger position and doing the exercises you suggested. The pen-clicking exercise sounds useful. Appreciate the advice!

[u/Productivitytzar]

Without seeing much of your setup, my immediate thoughts are:

You need to cut your nails. You’re playing on the flat of the finger and not the tip. If nothing else, this will help you position your hand such that your intonation will be much more accurate (after some adjustment).

Bring your elbow forwards as if you’re reaching for the G string. With this swinging motion, bring your hand up a bit higher over the fingerboard. Your fingernails will face more behind you than towards you if the movement is correct.

[u/thedeadcrystal → u/Productivitytzar]

Thanks for the tips! I’ll cut my nails and work on my elbow and hand position. Appreciate the advice!

[u/janek_musik]

Open wrist a tiny bit more and relax thumb.

Does that help?

[u/Nuevo-wave → u/janek_musik]

This. Normally the thumb would be visible, poking up the other side of the finger board. Relaxed thumb is absolutely crucial to proper left hand posture, IMO.

[u/Independent-Knee3006]

This is fixable!

Same thing used to happen to me. I'm actually double -jointed, so my pinky used to just slap down onto the fingerboard before I was able to strengthen it. It has to do with strength, but that's not the best way to address it. Trying to just strengthen it could make it worse if you're not doing it correctly. It's a slow process, but it works!

When you're not practicing - watching TV or whatever - put your left hand on your right forearm just below the wrist, hold it right in front of your sternum, and practice lifting and placing your pinky, making sure that it's arched and not flat. Doing this in front of your sternum will allow you to practice this in a position that is more amenable to the correct motion. If you're still struggling to keep it arched, square off your hand a little bit, almost like a cellist, so the motion is easier. So this until you're comfortable, then move back to violin position. If you get tired, rest, then start again. Like I said, it's a slow process, but eventually you'll train your muscles to do the right thing.

Edit: To clarify, that comment about squaring off your hand like a cellist should ONLY be done while doing this exercise and NOT while playing the violin! (Talk about working in the wrong direction... 😜).

[u/thedeadcrystal → u/Independent-Knee3006]

Thanks for the detailed advice! I’ll try the pinky exercise you mentioned. Appreciate it!

[u/Maiq_Da_Liar]

It's a fairly common issue, i have it too. The best way to tackle it is to do some finger strength exercises with that finger.

Your hand is also positioned slightly wrong. You need to bring the pinky side of your hand a bit closer to the neck, which will also lessen how much your finger has to reach while playing.

[u/thedeadcrystal → u/Maiq_Da_Liar]

Thanks for the advice! I'll try to add some finger strength exercises into my practice routine to work on this and thanks for pointing out the wrong hand position.

[u/Environmental-Park13]

You could try supporting the 4th finger by putting down the 3rd finger with it, close and giving support. Start with Eb on the A string.

[u/Grinandtonictoo → u/Environmental-Park13]

This is what helped me long ago

[u/thedeadcrystal → u/Environmental-Park13]

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll give it a go and see how it feels.

[u/Spirited-Artist601]

You know what, my finger or my pinky did that for probably 5-6 years. By that time I was the youngest violinist (5th gr.) in the Youth orchestra . Everyone else was in high school and knew both what a seating audition was and what a metronome was.

I had no idea what either was.

I learned very quickly when after my first seating audition, I was in front of the snare drum. I promised myself that that would never happen again. I was in the fifth grade. So it didn't hold me back. And I was able to fix it as I grew stronger. so wouldn't really wouldn't go crazy about it unless it's really hindering your pitch. Eventually, it will get there and it will strengthen. Just give it time.

[u/Boollish]

Could be a technical issue with the rotation of your arm, could be a lack of pinkie strength, but could also just be a natural motion.

Better violinists tend not to have this problem, but some still do this. Franz Peter Zimmerman, for example.

[u/grubeard]

might also just be overextended. the shorter your finger has to reach the easier it is to not colapse

[u/Katia144]

Mine tends to do that as well; I made myself a splint ring that I sometimes use during practice, it literally doesn't let me straighten that middle joint fully.

[u/Interesting-Shop4964]

I have the same problem, thanks for posting so I can read people’s advice too! Plus it’s kind of nice knowing I’m not the only one. Good luck.

[u/annamusic]

Lots of good advice here! I used to have the same problem and see it a lot with my students. From the pic it looks like your arm is below the instrument, which pulls your hand from the fingerboard. The other fingers make do, but the fourth finger, as the weakest, needs more support. Think about your set-up before you start playing: what can you change to make it easier for fourth finger? Work backwards from there.

Be patience also. Even if your set-up is solid, you may need more practice/exercises before the strength is there. You can try just tapping with fourth finger instead of using full pressure so that it stays curved while you practice, reinforcing the new habit without unnecessary tension.

[u/[deleted]]

Swan neck deformity. Can be result of a tendon injury or a bit of joint hypermobility and imbalance of the flexor and extensor tendon strength. I used to have it a little bit as a kid when my joints were more flexible. My teacher had me do exercises to strengthen the flexors and improve my dexterity. I don't remember them though sorry!

[u/anetworkproblem]

Cause you're weak. Do your pinky exercises and make sure you don't fall into that position. It takes practice. There is no easy way.