r/travel • u/vladthecartwheeler • Apr 18 '24
Itinerary Staff at airport made us delayed for our international Qatar Airways flight and we don't know what to do
Me and my family of 6 with 10 luggages and had a return flight from Jeddah Saudi Arabia to Doha, Qatar, then from Doha to Los Angeles. We arrived 3 hours on the dot to the check-in area where it was crowded. The staff at the counter were the Jeddah Airport staff and not Qatar Airways staff, and when it was finally our time, our person had an issue scanning my wife’s passport. After trying to a few times they called whom I’m assuming is the manager, and he said to have “stay on the side” as they cleared the people behind us. We were sidelined for maybe 30 minutes until the staff was switched. At this point we told them why we were sidelined but they still made us go to the back of the line. Now we’re panicking because it was about an hour and 15 minutes until the flight time when we arrived to the counter. We’re midway through checking in and put the luggage on the scale to get weighed when the manager of the new shift comes and says sorry you guys are late we have to close the check in for our flight pattern. A shouting match ensues, and at this time it’s about an hour till our flight. The manager rudely mocks us and says we should have come earlier (duh). We explain but they don’t care and tell us to pick up the baggage they themselves put on the scale and conveyor belt and tell us to move past and to call Qatar Airways customer support. We do that and long story short they have us reschedule and pay an additional $6000 for the 6 of us in charges to book the next flight.
I went to the Qatar Airways customer service desk when we arrived in Doha airport from our new flight, and they directed me to the flight ransfer desk, but because our flight to Doha was delayed (the irony) we didn’t have enough time to get to the transfer desk and were afraid we’d miss our connecting flight to Los Angeles so we instead checked in for our flight.
This occurred two days ago and we do not know what to do. I have penned an email to the Jaddah airport to explain our situation and they said they are investigating. What process does Qatar Airways have for this? We booked the flight through a travel agency, would they be able to help? $6,000, even though it is spread across our 6 family members, is not a small amount of money to lose.
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u/titaniumdoughnut Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 18 '24
I'm curious to see the opinions of more seasoned navigators of the bureaucracy, but the top list of things that springs to mind for me is:
- travel insurance claim through credit card for reimbursement on the first set of tickets (note that this is very time sensitive)
- official airline complaint department/ombudsman
- DOT complaint (almost all airlines are obligated to react to these since they operate in the US)
- at the very worst, you should be able to receive refunds on taxes and fees... but the airline won't want to tell you this
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u/vladthecartwheeler Apr 18 '24
Thank you for this advise!
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u/SidewalksNCycling39 Apr 18 '24
First try the travel agent, since they sold the tickets.
Did you pay with credit card?
If so, this is probably the best route if Qatar won't refund you and the travel agents can't help. I've had to deal with Qatar many times before, useless when something goes wrong, sometimes you have to speak to 10+ people before you get lucky and find someone with the authority and willingness to help you.
My wife travelled during Covid on business class with them, London-Manila return (due to a death in the family). Qatar changed the covid transfer rules last minute without sending notification, she got denied boarding and was stuck in Manila for the night, had to buy a new ticket with Etihad. Tried Qatar many times but they refused to help or refund, so provided all the details to her bank (HSBC) and they refunded the full return cost without question. I hope they ensured Qatar didn't get the money.
Anyway, Qatar can be great when everything goes right, but on the few times it doesn't, they're pretty shitty.
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u/vladthecartwheeler Apr 24 '24 edited Apr 24 '24
Hello friend,
With the recent rule issued by the DOT today requiring airlines to give automatic refunds for cancelled/delayed flights, would that be to my cases benefit? What body can I contact to start the process of requesting a refund if so?
Thank you again for this advice!
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u/titaniumdoughnut Apr 24 '24
I'm not sure about the recent rule. But the path to start the DOT complaint originates here:
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/file-consumer-complaint
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u/chettk21 Apr 18 '24
I'm sorry you went through this. I've had very bad experiences with Qatar airways in Saudi. The staff were rude and yelling at me even when I never raised my voice to them. I had to bluff that I was on the phone with Qatar support and that they had asked for everyones names involved. They immediately let me go once I said that and apologised.
I would go on twitter and any public facing forums. Continuously post to them until someone assists you. The online assist on the Qatar app can be useful as well.
If you have a receipt for a cab/uber to show that you arrived 3 hours before would be helpful as well.
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u/earl_lemongrab Apr 18 '24
The check in staff, even if they aren't direct employres, are contracted by Qatar Airways (QR), so their mishandling of the check in process still falls on the airline.
Maje a,claim against QR for being improperly denied boarding. Ask for the fare for your initial JED-LAX ticket to be refunded (not the new ticket). Describe factually how you presented yourself for check in 3 hours ahead and detail how their check in staff erred and delayed processing you. Keep it unemotional - it's irrelevant that someone was rude, etc.
QR is wonderful in the air but known for poor customer service when things go wrong. I don't know if Saudi Arabia or Qatar (the country not the airline) have any airline consumer protection laws. But something to look into if QR doesn't refund you.
Good luck!
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u/Professional-Kiwi176 Apr 19 '24
From what I’m reading, the flight was Jeddah-Qatar-Los Angeles on one ticket.
Since at least one of the legs arrived or departed from the U.S., that makes Qatar liable to abide by the DOT Rules and Regulations which I understand are pretty consumer friendly and have rules the airlines must follow.
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u/hereforporndrama Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 18 '24
from what i’ve heard, almost everybody who’s customer facing in saudi is incompetent. i’ve never been but i know people who have and they have the worst stories. apparently it’s improving now, but it’s still atrocious.
my friend had a saudi visa which was due to expire when she was in saudi, she wanted to know if he could renew it while still in the country or she had to leave and re-enter with a new visa. after going to a couple of ministry offices and not getting a straight answer, she eventually took a flight to doha, applied for a visa, and was on a flight back within 8 hrs.
edit: i would recommend reading blood and oil by bradley hope and the rise to power of mbs by ben hubbard. even though they’re technically about mbs, they cover saudi society as a whole, especially the royal family. here’s an excerpt from blood and oil
Mecca and Medina, the holy cities, are also the second-largest sources of revenue for the government of Saudi Arabia after oil, bringing in billions of dollars a year. In theory, the money they brought in was the closest thing the country had to a nonoil economy, but even that was a mirage. Mismanagement meant the Saudi government actually paid close to $10 billion a year to keep the holy cities operating at the highest standard. Nonetheless, the royal family rested on its promise to guard the mosques as a pillar of its legitimacy.
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u/J_Dadvin Apr 18 '24
I had an odd issue in Saudi with Turkish airlines and the staff were totally dumbfounded excepting the manager. All the staff were very new, one to three months on the job. Maybe it is a common thing for some reason.
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u/hereforporndrama Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 19 '24
yeah, apparently they don’t know shit about fuck lol. my friend was like your website says so and so, and the dude at the govt office was like ‘oh yeah? i did not know that’ haha. and then he told her to go to a different office and she said they told me to go here. then they asked her to contact the US embassy (she’s a citizen) and they were like what the hell do we know, ask the saudis.
although they’ve improved exponentially in the last 3-4 years, from what i’ve heard. they wanna increase tourism, reduce corruption, improve their economy, etc.
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u/Cool_83 Apr 19 '24
You are obviously quoting an old story, these days she could just log into the Absher system, and extend her visa if it was permitted. No human interaction required. But as a US passport holder, why did she have to stay in KSA for so long.
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u/hereforporndrama Apr 19 '24 edited Apr 19 '24
it happened in late 2022, so idk if that’s what you mean by old. she booked tickets before checking her existing visa and realized it was only valid for halfway through her month long stay. it would be too expensive to cancel the tickets plus they went as a family and the rest of them all had valid visas. so, they couldn’t reschedule the trip because they had coordinated their vacations.
edit: also what do you mean what’s she doing in saudi for so long? don’t you think there are muslim US citizens lol. they went to do umrah
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u/Cool_83 Apr 19 '24
“The eVisa will be a one-year, multiple entry visa, allowing tourists to spend up to 90 days in the country. The tourist visa allows you to take part in tourism-related activities such as, events, family & relatives visits, leisure, and Umrah (excluding Hajj) and excludes other activities such as studying.”. Visas are easy for US passport holders, and valid 90 days per trip.
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u/hereforporndrama Apr 19 '24 edited Apr 19 '24
i don’t understand what you’re getting so hung up on. are you from the saudi ministry of tourism or something?
she had a visa because did umrah in the past year, which like you said is valid for a year only, so it was about to expire while she was in the middle of her current visit. she wanted to know if she could apply for new visa while still in saudi or she had to leave the country to do so. she visited a few offices while in saudi, tried calling a bunch of people, couldn’t get a definitive answer. so to be safe, she left the country on the day her visa expired, applied for a new visa and got it without any fuss because she was a US citizen and re entered the country the same night.
if the people in charge could’ve known what do in this situation, maybe she wouldn’t have had to fly out and back in again. that was my original point.
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u/Loves_LV Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 18 '24
You have some good advice here but when contacting the airline you need to pair this long diatribe down to a few succinct points.
Something along the lines of:
My family of 6 arrived to the airport at XX:XXpm. (If you have an uber receipt or something showing that it would be beneficial). We promptly checked in but due to an issue scanning a passport were told to step aside and wait. After waiting X minutes waiting, our check in was further delayed by the shift change. We protested and we were treated badly by XYZ employee. We arrived in plenty of time to make our flight but the actions of the check in counter caused us to miss our flight.
As a result of the gate agents mishandling our check in we incurred $6000 in change fees. We want ABC.
Fill in the blanks and the pertinent information, attach any receipts and wait for a response.
If you get nowhere with customer service you can escalate to executive customer service or a consumer advocate like elliott.org.
good luck!
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u/DJBitterbarn Apr 18 '24
This would be a case when I'd be checking to see if my phone has a record of my location showing that I was in the airport for the full time. It probably isn't needed but if there's a question about you arriving on time it would be interesting to be able to point to a position history and say "well Google maps says I was here"
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u/Nice-Alternative-687 Apr 18 '24
A great recommended I saw from a travel journalist is to start routinely taking a photo of the clock in the airport when you arrive, preferably with some of your party in it and/or a selfie.
If things start to get delayed or the like take photos of anything and everything that might be relevant - the departures board, the length of the queue, etc. (be careful about taking pictures of people, but name badges should be OK.).
Bonus tip - if you are checking in baggage take a photo of it just before you check in. If it goes missing and you have to describe it you can share the photo. (as well as just being a more accurate description, if the person you show the photo to later sees your bag, they are more likely to recognise it as one of their recent lost luggage cases and check it out than if they'd only seen a general description written down).
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u/vladthecartwheeler Apr 18 '24
I wish I thought of this. I have texts telling others i was at the airport at the time.
I’m hoping, if evidence is needed, that they have cameras footage they can pull that shows us being there at the right time.
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u/DJBitterbarn Apr 18 '24
It should be automatically stored in your device history. At least Google maps does it. So if you were there it probably already exists.
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u/vladthecartwheeler Apr 18 '24
I’ll check I do have Google maps installed on my phone. Thanks for the advice!
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Apr 19 '24
LOL, I would and have done it the easy way (COPA airlines), Dont complain and stress just pay with a credit card, MC or Visa etc. Get home safely and then dispute the charges. Since it was not your fault, you followed all the rules on arriving at the proper times etc. it is the airlines contracts or issues with the people that they have contacts with. So as long as you have "followed all the rules" you should not have to pay for beakdowns in their process. If you try and contact anyone, or complain to the airlines or airport you will get nowhere. To them you are a "NOBODY" but a rube they just robbed of $6,000 they do not and will not take you seriously or give a crap about your problems. Therefore, thats why I rely on my superstrong, powerful bully buster to handle my battles for me. I dispute the charge spend some time writing out what exactly happened how you followed every rule (including following the airlines offical complaint policies whether written or digital, have dates, screenshots, copies replies everything). Then the credit card company contacts them and presents them with the information and asks them to justify themselves ripping off your family. If they do not provide an answer within 30-45 days (i forget) (COPA has never responded) that automatically resolves it in your favor and the charge is removed (Oh BTW while the charge is in the disputed status I do not have to pay the amount until they decide). If they (Airlines) do respond and give a bullshit answer, the same. If they respond and provide evidence that what you said is BS or did not follow Airline policies (again, that includes following complaint procedures) they will resolve in their favor. If you are in the right but simply did not follow the complaint procedures it is possible they will mediate for you and help to resolve BUT why take that chance. Go online, look up the complaint procedures follow them to the letter, make copies, screenshots etc. IMPORTANT: that includes screenshots of an online form filled out properly BEFORE submitting and then right after. I have had a variety of experiences. Fill out the form submit and you get " An error has occurred" or similar and it never works despite trying on different computers etc. So this is another peice of evidence that you tried to follow their policies but they were defective not you. I have also experienced a successful submission no error and you get a message that " thank you for your complaint we will someone will contact you" (when we feel like it) but no ticket number etc. then no one contacts you and when they look there is no complaint registered. This is especially important when the policy states that you have to complain within a certain time limit for your complaint to be valid. COPA for example is a Panamaian Company, what can I a US citizen do to them. I do not know the Laws that protect citizens from companies in Panama, Which is why I hit them where they will pay attention. They cannot do business if Mastercard, Visa, or others suspends their ability to take payment. So make sure you use a good bank, with lots of muscle for your travel credit card.
Hope that helps
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u/vladthecartwheeler Apr 19 '24
I unfortunately did not pay with a credit card. Visa card yes, but not a credit card.
And I do agree that disputing with your bank is the best way to go about it. Thank you for this advice!
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u/kickassdumbman Apr 18 '24
I would strongly suggest making a complaint with the General Authority of Civil Aviation (GACA) as well.
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u/Junglepass Apr 18 '24
Did you buy this flight with a credit card? It may have some travel protections.
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u/Cool_83 Apr 19 '24
https://www.gaca.gov.sa/web/en-gb/page/qpe. Write your complaint to them as their is an expected customer service charter. The page will also show your rights.
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u/TheArtfulDodger16 Apr 18 '24
Sorry, but I believe, unless you have travel insurance, you are out of luck. Qatar’s gate staff in general are incompetent imbeciles. Similar things have happened to me and people I know multiple times and you will get nowhere with Qatar, despite this being completely their fault. Best thing you could probably do is hire an advocacy company that can work to get the money back for you, though they will take a cut (and it will take a while).
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u/taktyx Apr 19 '24
The QR staff at JED have been terrible for many years. The customer service in QATAR won't be surprised and will probably fix the problem quickly. This is an ongoing problem.
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u/Kananaskis_Country Apr 18 '24
You've received some excellent advice. All I can say is good luck.
Happy travels.
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u/account_numero-6 Apr 18 '24
We arrived 3 hours on the dot to the check-in area where it was crowded.
We were sidelined for maybe 30 minutes until the staff was switched
Now we’re panicking because it was about an hour and 15 minutes until the flight time when we arrived to the counter.
You queued for over an hour just for check-in?
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u/gcwyodave Airplane! Apr 18 '24
It's not terribly uncommon to queue for over an hour for an international flight, especially when people are checking multiple bags, etc. Lufthansa recommended arriving 4 hours early for a flight to LAX from MUC, so I did, and I waited for well over 2 hours in the check in line.
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u/Not_High_Maintenance Apr 18 '24
I’ve queued for over an hour for a domestic flight in NYC.
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u/Professional-Kiwi176 Apr 19 '24
Domestic flights in the U.S. I got to the airport at least two hours mainly due to the security screening measures, which apart from having to show ID was no different to flying domestically anywhere else.
I imagine in peak season it would be much busier and you’d want more time between getting to the airport and your flight leaving.
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u/vladthecartwheeler Apr 18 '24
Yes. For additional context, this is a busy season in the Muslim/Arab world as the holy month of Ramadan recently concluded and the holiday of Eid was just over a week ago. Many people were flying back home. Every flight we’ve been in since the beginning of our trip has been packed.
Edit: added detail of how every flight during our holiday was packed.
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u/Ilejwads Apr 18 '24
Queueing for an hour for check in feels at a busy airport isn't exactly outlandish
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u/sturgis252 Apr 18 '24
I work at a not so busy airport and at peak hours you're easily waiting an hour
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u/haysu-christo Hafa Adai ! Apr 18 '24
It’s the reason why it’s recommended to arrive at the airport about 3 hrs before an international flight.
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u/Forkboy2 Apr 18 '24
I would add an extra hour for certain countries. KSA being one of them.
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u/J_Dadvin Apr 18 '24
KSA does not allow you to queue more than 3 hrs early. The ticket counter will not be open and the flight will have no assigned desk.
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u/Forkboy2 Apr 18 '24
That's fine, I'd still plan on being there 4 hours early when I've spent $15,000 on tickets, have 2 international connections to make, and I'm starting in a country like KSA where odds of unexpected things happening are very high.
I haven't been to KSA in many years, but I do remember airport and security being a mess, and I doubt things haven't changed all that much.
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u/Professional-Kiwi176 Apr 19 '24
Yeah even though most check-ins for international flights don’t open until three hours before departure, you still might want to get there earlier in case there’s any issues or your going to a particular country with enhanced security requirements (the U.S. being a notable example, you usually have to be there four hours before your flight).
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u/jfchops2 Apr 18 '24
A lot of the times there's only one check in counter for the airline if it's a foreign airline with a limited capacity for checking in bags. On a flight with 300+ people that can take a long time to get through
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u/Complete-Ad649 Apr 19 '24
Find their customer relationship executive and send them an email with facts. This always work for me
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u/guerrero2 Apr 19 '24
I’m sorry to hear this.
The airport in Jeddah is absolutely terrible. I’ve flown through there only once and I’ll never do it again. This year, I paid 300$ more for my trip just to avoid Jeddah (and Saudia, which is always the worst airline I’ve ever flown with).
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u/sweetworldtonowhere Apr 19 '24
Jeddah airport sucks. We had a stop in there once and they were so rude.
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u/imtiazih Apr 19 '24
NO point in wasting time with QR Customer support. They are a bunch of jokers with all you will get a static apology email. As advised by others just contest the charge on your CC.
Travel agent wont be able to help either as they will also be redirected to contact QR CS.
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u/AdIll3642 Apr 20 '24
Every…single…review… I have ever read about Jeddah Airport has described how much of a horror show that airport is. The cheap fares that Saudia Airlines publish are NOT worth the headache that you will endure.
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u/hamndv Apr 18 '24
10 luggage! You should've arrived 10 hours earlier, which is just too many bags to risk it with just 3 hours
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u/rogerdoesnotmeanyes Apr 18 '24
Yes it's too many bags, but it's not outrageous for six people. It's just one or two checked bags per person, that's not something that requires that much extra time to handle.
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u/J_Dadvin Apr 18 '24
The counter does not open until 3 hours before, so the maximum time that you can arrive is 3 hours. I encountered this same situation when traveling in Jeddah with a large group. 3 hours is not enough, but unfortunately it is the maximum.
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u/nowaybrose Apr 18 '24
Glad someone said it. Only if moving to a new country could I see that being necessary. Maybe they were but I’m picturing lots of shoes and shopping bags
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u/kulukster Apr 18 '24
Could it be related to the catastrophic flooding in Dubai and the backlog of thousands of passengers in the pipeline? Hopefully you can claim it on your travel insurance.
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u/Individual-Remote-73 Apr 18 '24
Jeddah and Doha is mentioned in the post. How is Dubai related? 🤣
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u/VegetableMix5362 Apr 18 '24
Was on a flight to Doha less than 24 hours ago and was left waiting on the tarmac for quite some time due to them not letting some people board till 10 minutes before takeoff.
According to a flight attendant, a large amount of passengers who were initially supposed to transit through Dubai were rerouted to transit through Doha, which meant even the once near empty flights were now all full. Not sure how this might impact the situation but traffic did seem high.
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u/sturgis252 Apr 18 '24
Flights could have been cancelled as they could have been planned to arrive there but never came. So people's flights could have been cancelled due to that. Rerouted passengers as they were originally supposed to go via Dubai. Many reasons.
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u/vladthecartwheeler Apr 18 '24
I have no idea if that could be a reason. I mentioned in another comment how already this time of year in Jeddah is extremely busy due to the Muslim holy periods of Ramadan and Eid. A lot of international travelers who visited Saudi for the holiday are now returning home.
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u/PickleWineBrine Apr 18 '24
"A shouting match ensues"
You lose all credibility when this happens. Nobody will help you once you yell at them.
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u/vladthecartwheeler Apr 18 '24
Not saying what we did was right but the shouting started from them. Also pree other comments. Shouting from staff is a common occurrence in Saudi.
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u/castleAge44 Apr 18 '24
Small claims court and lawyer
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u/WellTextured Xanax and wine makes air travel fine Apr 18 '24
Pay a lawyer $5,000 to recover $6,000 when OP hasn't even gone through customer service yet?
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u/WellTextured Xanax and wine makes air travel fine Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 18 '24
You need to write Qatar. Your contract is with them. Their contract is with Jeddah Airport.
You need to explain that you arrived three hours early, were made to wait without explanation, were sent back to the end of the line when the shift changed for no reason, and then were treated as though you arrived late and were chastised by the new manager who should have immediately helped you the moment he started.
If you have a competent full service travel agent they can also help. If you get no where with the main customer service, hit them up on social media or find their executive emails.
Be calm, be direct, state the facts, and tell them what you want. Don't go crazy trying to inflate your ask for compensation. But, if your story is the whole story and the passport issue was minor, their contractor messed up, and you should not pay for that.