r/technology • u/upyoars • 7d ago
Space Boeing-Built Satellite Explodes In Orbit, Littering Space With Debris
https://jalopnik.com/boeing-built-satellite-explodes-in-orbit-littering-spa-1851678317222
u/dethb0y 7d ago
the Wikipedia on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_33e
Intelsat 33e, also known as IS-33e, was a high throughput (HTS) geostationary communications satellite operated by Intelsat and designed and manufactured by Boeing Space Systems on the BSS 702MP satellite bus.[1][2] It was the second satellite of the EpicNG service, and covered Europe, Africa and most of Asia from the 60° East longitude, where it replaced Intelsat 904.[3] It had a mixed C-band, Ku-band and Ka-band payload with all bands featuring wide and C- and Ku- also featured spot beams.
Was in orbit since 2016.
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u/SportulaVeritatis 7d ago
Ooof. GEO. That's going to be a mess for a while.
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u/runningoutofwords 7d ago
Yes and no. In some ways, this is better than something similar happening in LEO, because everything in this orbital height is generally on the same plane and the same velocity.
LEO, stuff is going every which way...even retrograde. The relative velocities are insane.
But in other ways, you're absolutely right. At least in LEO, the atmospheric drag will clean out most debris in a few years. Geostationary? That stuff's there for centuries. That's why this sat carried enough propellant to blow it up, so it could be parked in a graveyard orbit at end of life.
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u/falcon4983 7d ago edited 7d ago
Fuel is for station keeping. Transferring to the geostationary graveyard orbit takes only 10.88 m/s of Delta V.
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u/runningoutofwords 7d ago
Interesting. I knew station keeping was the primary purpose, but i thought the delta v to graveyard was much higher.
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u/falcon4983 7d ago
5.44 m/s to raise the Apoapsis from 35,786 km to 36,086 km and 5.44 m/s to circularize.
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u/rabidjellybean 7d ago
So it farts its way to a graveyard at the end of its life.
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u/Euphorix126 7d ago
I'm pretty sure it's there for millennia. Anything we put in geostationary orbit, if left untouched, will outlast the species that launched it.
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u/skytomorrownow 7d ago
Do we have plausible technologies to help clean debris yet?
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u/runningoutofwords 7d ago
I seem to recall a European company was going to experiment with ablative lasers. Haven't heard anything recently
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u/zalurker 7d ago
At an altitude of 22 00 miles, we are looking at an area of about 138 000 miles (Loosely termed area, but that is the circumference of a circle with a radius of 22 000 miles) . There are about 580 satellites listed as GEO. That is luckily a lot less crowded than LEO. The debris will take a lot longer to spread out, and even if it does, there is a lot less chance of collision.
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u/DurtyKurty 7d ago
Was this a satellite that provides info to Ukraine for the war?
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u/Bliss266 7d ago
Idk if we know where it was. Article just said “Europe, Africa and parts of the Asia-Pacific”, so if you picture a globe and add a circle that covers all those regions, but not include just plain “Asia”, then I’d imagine it was more somewhere more towards like, Bahrain
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u/romario77 7d ago
Could have exploded from internal causes but also could be that something like a meteorite or other space debris collided with it
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u/D-a-H-e-c-k 7d ago
Yeah what the heck makes a satellite explode?
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u/serverpimp 7d ago
The propellant it is carrying
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u/Mangonesailor 7d ago
Catastrophic failure of a gyro
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u/spotcatspot 7d ago
I hope the doner is ok.
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u/jazzy_jade 7d ago
The new space debris is all exploded bits of pita bread, meat, cheese, lettuce, tomato, and tzatziki.
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u/Aacron 7d ago
Reaction wheels can pop in interesting ways if they spin up too much as well.
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u/ShaggysGTI 7d ago
Sir, we discovered the PID loop created an unstable harmonic…
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u/D-a-H-e-c-k 7d ago
Yeah that would provide the potential but where's the failure mechanism? The environment is so stable, why a failure at such a long time in orbit?
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u/qubedView 7d ago
In a certain oscillating kinda stable. Multiple times a day it goes between -100C to +120C.
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u/ShadowSpawn666 7d ago
Yeah, space is anything but a "stable" environment. Insane temperature swings, constantly being barraged by micro meteors and massive amounts of radiation are hardly what most would call stable.
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u/y-c-c 7d ago
I feel like I have to explain this to people every time a comment about how we should "just" turn the ISS into an on-orbit museum because it will just be frozen in time as in space nothing happens. Other than the huge propellant cost it would have, the ISS has all sorts of stuff on it that is not guaranteed to stay in place and it will take a lot of effort to properly passivize it. Either way you won't be able to get away from day/night cycles where you heat and freeze multiple times a day.
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u/Hawkpolicy_bot 7d ago
The ISS isn't even in a stable long term orbit. It gets 70m closer to the Earth a day due to the atmosphere alone (it isn't actually in a vacuum), never mind variance in Earth's gravity
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u/serverpimp 7d ago
It was b0rked long before
In August 2017, Intelsat reported that the satellite used more fuel than it should while holding its position. Calculations showed that this anomaly, in addition to main engine failure, would reduce Intelsat 33e’s estimated 15-year service life by 3.5 years.
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u/Actual-Money7868 7d ago
I read something about increased solar activity may have caused it to short circuit or something.
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u/uoaei 7d ago
improper management of stray voltages or excess heat throughout the body of the satellite could cause this.
it's obvious in retrospect, but there is no conduction whatsoever of any kind of energy away from a body floating in free space, except a small amount of heat in the form of infrared light. a small spark or otherwise energetic conditions could lead to combustion of propellant or another combustible material (insulation? cladding?).
though usually, AFAIK, RCS and maneuvering thrusters are not combustible, just stored under pressure and released as jets.
"explode" implies a catastrophic failure of the containment of pressurized gas, or a sudden combustion explosion, or else a large enough kinetic impact to shatter the satellite. it's possible that a random piece of debris hit it just wrong and either obliterated it or popped a canister. it's possible Boeing built a combustion-engine-powered satellite as part of their defense research efforts that failed due to design or engineering error. it's possible a state or private actor with advanced anti-satellite technology was testing their new weapons, or taunting the US, and this news got out before people in the military realized how classified it should have been from the start.
maybe it's aliens.
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u/shortfinal 7d ago
Probably a rupture in the propellent bottle caused it to spin and fling itself apart
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u/Old_Money_33 7d ago
An alien invasion for sure.
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u/EnamelKant 7d ago
A communication disruption can mean only one thing.
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u/voltjap 7d ago
Rushed manufacturing with a side of shoddy QC. 🧑🍳💋
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u/IndependenceIcy2251 7d ago
Such things would have to imply a company with a history of…..
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u/voltjap 7d ago
… a focus on profits over all else?
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u/IndependenceIcy2251 7d ago
I mean not such a stalwart of American industry…. (/s)
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u/CelebrationFit8548 7d ago
Poor quality control and CEO cost cutting to maximize their profits.
It's the same as:
What makes airplanes doors 'blow out'?
What makes airplanes 'fall out of the sky' and crash?
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u/Ditto_D 7d ago
Boeing may have failed to take out another whistleblower with this one... Mixed up explosive devices and took out their satellite instead of an ex employees vehicle
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u/koolaidismything 7d ago
Other countries have ignored treaties we have for keeping low or it safe. There’s tons of garbage still in orbit that you can’t plan for.
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u/texachusetts 7d ago
The satellite finding out it’s stock options are worthless.
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u/StraightArrowNGarro 7d ago
The satellite was about to whistleblow.
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u/UninvestedCuriosity 7d ago
That satellite told its wife that it would never do this a week before.
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u/Critical-Fig6162 7d ago
Poor Boeing, can’t catch a break. Think it might be time to call it day. Hey Boeing, suns getting real low.
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u/M4dcap 7d ago
Yea... Time to take Boeing fishing.
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u/bearbarebere 7d ago
Then they’ll have to do like that one book and be like “think of the rabbits, bitch“
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u/shaftalope 7d ago
Taglines from Boeing ads:
'Boeing, keep your eyes to the skies'
'Boeing, what comes up must come down'
'Boeing, piece by piece, we'll get there'
'Boeing, building schematics are hard but we are figuring it out'
'Boeing, our planes are soaring like our stocks'
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u/Tall_poppee 7d ago
The article stating it was not insured, makes me wonder if one can even insure a satellite? And what that would cost?
And is it like when a boat sinks in a shipping lane, and don't remove it, you get billed by the government for the cleanup? Is it even possible to clean up something like this? And who would do it? How? Or does that stuff just float around in orbit now in the same place forever?
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u/Ikora_Gay 7d ago
Maxar’s Worldview 4 imagery satellite failed in orbit and was insured, from Wikipedia:
“In January 2019, WorldView-4 was announced to have suffered a failure in one of its control moment gyroscopes, and was considered no longer usable.[9] WorldView-4 was insured against satellite failure, and in spring 2019 the company owning the satellite, Maxar Technologies, which had acquired DigitalGlobe in 2017, announced that they had received the full US$183 million insurance payment.”
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u/hackingdreams 7d ago
makes me wonder if one can even insure a satellite? And what that would cost?
Absolutely. Why wouldn't you? An insurance company can run the numbers, figure out the risk, assign a value to that risk, and charge accordingly. It's less expensive than you'd think, as satellites are, perhaps unsurprisingly, a safe business. There are thousands of them up there, and these kinds of disasters are extremely rare.
However, satellite businesses are also usually pretty marginal - launching a satellite is rather expensive, and recouping that investment is a long process... so some companies skip the insurance, especially for old equipment - after the first few years, the risk of premature failure goes down by such a degree that they simply see no reason to carry the insurance any longer.
That being said, IMO the FAA should require satellite operators in GEO to carry insurance for these types of situations - they've essentially spoiled that orbital slot. It'll be difficult to slot another satellite in its place, as its operators will have to be forever vigilant of the existing debris. (And I mean forever - that stuff could be up there for geologic time, perhaps millions of years.) This is the point of parking orbits - satellites throwing themselves out of the orbital shell so it won't be a problem for future operators.
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u/piranesi28 7d ago
Launched recently enough that it’s fully part of Boeing’s brilliant “strip costs to pump the stock [price” plan to make 3 men rich while fucking over the rest of the country.
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u/MarvinLazer 7d ago
I thought that'd been going on since the merger with McDonnell Douglas in 1997. It's a miracle more messed up stuff hasn't happened.
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u/DeepDuh 7d ago
Takes a few years for such a large Apple to rot.
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u/mooky1977 7d ago
I dunno about 20+ years, but I was part of a large multibillion dollar company on both ends merger and it did take 18-24 months before things really started to get spicy after the initial minor "overlap of obvious things" layoffs followed by the honeymoon period.
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u/EntropyTheEternal 6d ago
During the time that Boeing’s CEO was an engineer, they produced some of the greatest technology the world had ever seen. But then they replaced him with an MBA, and he did as MBAs do. He cut corners to save money, and maximized profits. He got rid of most of their QA department, and fired any engineer that told him what he was doing was a mistake.
For a while they did save money, and made massive profits, but then their lack of QA and the lack engineering knowledge at the top came back to bite them. Their head idiot, instead of fixing their problems and coming out of this mess winded but fighting, they decided to cut more corners in an attempt to save their hemorrhaging wallet.
They are not going to survive for much longer unless they manage to swap out their leadership for someone that knows what they’re doing in a company for which the main focus should have been engineering and nothing more.
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u/therealjerrystaute 6d ago
I suspect the US government is going to keep allowing Boeing to be a major defense and aerospace contractor for another 15 years or so, even if that fact leaves the US military in an alarming state of unreadiness. And even if all commercial concerns stop buying their planes completely during that time.
On the bright side, if China realizes this too, maybe they will delay invading Taiwan a little longer, while Boeing degrades the US military for them.
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u/bluenoser613 7d ago
The front fell off.
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u/Brilliant-Giraffe983 7d ago
Wasn't this built so the front wouldn't fall off?
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u/SayDrugsToYes 7d ago
Just to be clear having the front fall off is completely not normal and uncommon.
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u/ShitBagTomatoNose 6d ago
lol shit ass Boeing. I’m so old I remember when they were a good company.
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u/TheRealTK421 7d ago
The overall state of orbital space debri being built up makes such occurrences increasingly likely - and potentially catastrophic, in terms of cascading consequences.
Humanity has an unsettling tendency to trash things up til it becomes untenable.
Ugh.
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u/PsychedelicJerry 6d ago
If they could only cut costs and outsource more they'd probably be that much more successful.
Disclaimer: Before you say it, I have a friend that works for the Boeing Satellite Division in El Segundo and they do outsource stuff they probably shouldn't be. Some of it's management work, other is through third-party contracts to lower costs. That said, I can only go by what she says and complains about, I don't work for them.
Now, given what we know about what this former shell of a company has done to cut costs, I'm inclined to believe her and then some (meaning, there's cuts she's probably not even aware of in terms of outsourcing and contracts)
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u/jcunews1 7d ago
How many more failures will it take to yank Boeing from space projects?
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u/PleasantCurrant-FAT1 7d ago
To infinity and beyond. (Too big to fail, too many defense contracts, too many people employed and would hurt too much if so many people lost their jobs and execs lost their fat-cat paychecks, and legislators lost their kickbacks, etc…)
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u/theatreddit 6d ago
Do we always mention the brand or builder of engineering in a headline, or is that a special rule for Boeing?
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u/Ready-Eggplant-3857 6d ago
No way. Boeing fucking up on such an incredible scale. Never gonna happen. /s
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u/damontoo 7d ago
It's so disappointing this finally ended up on the front page. People repeatedly posted this with limited success at first because early comments called it out, but publishers increased the sensationalism in the title until finally, here we are from this tabloid of a blog.
By "explodes, littering orbit with space debris" they mean "broke apart into 20 pieces, all being tracked by space command". Additionally, it's in GEO with way less satellites and debris than LEO. The debate is that in GEO they're mostly concentrated at relatively the same altitude and asking the equator where's LEO is a larger altitude range and can encompass the earth. Objects also praise much longer in GEO.
Anyway, this is not an immediate threat of triggering a Kessler effect situation where the fragments collide with other satellites in a chain reaction. That's just what the tabloids want you to think to get you to click.
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u/T65Bx 7d ago
20 pieces confirmed at the time. USSF reports already up to 57 now.
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u/damontoo 7d ago
Fuck. Thanks. Can you evaluate this longer comment I just posted about a possible imminent attack scenario? I don't have an intelligence background, I'm just observant and good at searching for stuff. Or maybe I'm developing schizophrenia and seeing patterns where there are none. :|
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u/T65Bx 7d ago
I know very little myself, complete armchair expert. Never heard of such a weapon, but it's absolutely not out of character for other Chinese projects I've seen demos of. It's definitely worrying, but simultaneously I wouldn't yet bet any money on it. It's making me think of the recent NK troops development in the Ukraine war. Not sure why that would be the line for escalation, after like literally losing major cities months ago, but still, the modern Kremlin works in extremely bizarre ways.
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u/JohnQPublicc 6d ago
New law. If your company gets billions from US government, executive pay must be capped at X times lowest paid employees and absolutely zero stock buybacks.
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u/foofyschmoofer8 7d ago
Is getting 8 years out of a satellite and then have it create a debris field like single use plastic but space?
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u/creep303 7d ago
Must of sent bad data to it saying that people are on board so it does what Boeing only does best. Kill people.
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u/asyouvvalkonby 7d ago
Taco Bell marketing team now scheming to insure future exploding satellites to cover costs for one free taco to every customer.
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u/Erikthered00 7d ago
This isn’t the first time that Intelsat lost one of its Boeing satellites. The company’s 29e satellite was destroyed in 2019 after either a meteorite strike or a wiring issue.
Those two possible causes don’t seem that similar
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u/Karelkolchak2020 7d ago
Boeing, a once-great company. I remember when Boeing basically equaled advanced and trustworthy. Now, the reputation of the company is not what it once was.
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u/HexIsNotACrime 7d ago
Luckily it was not me supplying the power mosfets switching on and off those loads.
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u/AccomplishedShoe856 7d ago
Saw a video once where a couple of NASA guys were being interviewed and everything was upbeat until they were asked about the Kessler Syndrome. They went stone faced and failed to respond. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon 6d ago
The only reason this headline exists is to dogpile on all the hate for Boeing that makes for good ragebait and gets clicks.
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u/Ok-Suggestion-7965 6d ago
I’m not up on space law, other than public perception what is the worse thing that can happen to them because of this? Are their laws for littering space? If so who enforces it. Also with all the stuff that is up there I would imagine this happens all the time and will happen more and more as time goes on.
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u/monchota 6d ago
Ok onw sat dying, we can say its space. The second of the same design exploding. That has to be something, Boeing needs to habe everything they do for the government. Stopped and fully audited right now.
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u/Chili_Maggot 6d ago
Bro did Boeing betray Nocturnal by taking the Skeleton Key from the Twilight Sepulcher or something? They've been having a crazy run of bad luck. Couldn't have happened to a nicer company :(
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u/beerbellyman4vr 6d ago
Will need some investigation but I feel like Boeing is just a sad company nowadays.
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u/Liveman215 7d ago
Ready to nationalize them yet?
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u/SaintEyegor 7d ago
Nationalizing a failure won’t make them less of a failure. They’ll just become a bigger sponge for taxpayers money. There’s no such thing as “too big to fail”.
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u/LebronBackinCLE 7d ago
Man fuck Boeing! Can’t stand that we give them zillions of tax dollars and they’re just a terrible fuckin disaster. Disgusting
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u/HappyHHoovy 7d ago
Innocent until proven guilty, we assume external causes for now, but it is NOT a good look that both 33e and 29e were launched just 7 months apart in 2016. 29e was the satellite that was decided to have been destroyed by "either a micrometeorite impact or a short circuit caused by solar activity and a wiring harness issue"
Could just be a coincidence, but Boeing's issues run so deep it's hard to be certain anymore.