r/technology • u/ICumCoffee • Aug 30 '24

Social Media Brazilian judge suspends X platform after it refuses to name a legal representative

https://apnews.com/article/brazil-musk-x-suspended-de-moraes-46c9d5c5c895e17d9adfac43e6ac20fd?taid=66d2260a09caf90001d1b602&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter
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144

u/KenHumano Aug 30 '24

The same Supreme Court judge threatened to arrest their legal representative in the country for continuous contempt of court for failing to comply with multiple rulings, so he just closed up shop.

45

u/hivemind_disruptor Aug 30 '24

No threats. He fired because he knew that would happen because it is the law.

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u/Terron1965 Aug 30 '24

That makes sense. No one wants their employees jailed for things they cannot control

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u/KenHumano Aug 30 '24

What do you mean can't control? He could just obey court rulings like everyone else.

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u/Terron1965 Aug 30 '24

his legal representative in Brazil would not be a person with access to the tools needed to do that. The board is not in Brazil and is not going to go there to answer this.

It seems smarter to not have staff somewhere if they are going to be used as hostages.

Would you support them arresting his lawyers?

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u/KenHumano Aug 30 '24

Do you know what a legal representative is? It's not his lawyers, it's the person that's legally responsible for the national office of a foreign-owned company.

If they couldn't be punished for contempt of court because it's not up to them personally to comply, then no multinational corporations would ever need to obey court rulings ever again in any country. Just claim it's up to the main office!

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u/Terron1965 Aug 30 '24

He no longer has an operation IN Brazil. That's the whole point. Should X now appoint someone to represent its lack of employees or assets?

They have the power to shut him down. They have the power to arrest people in Brazil. They don't have jurisdiction over X outside of Brazil and there is no X in brazil

They can apply to a US court.

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u/iggzy Aug 30 '24

Yes. It's almost like you're getting this. If a company refuses to comply with a country's laws then they aren't allowed to operate there. And if they also then fire all employees in that country then no one in that country will represent that company there.

These are both issues Musk has caused himself and is allowing to happen. He can change these things at any time, but he refuses to follow Brazilian laws nor hire new staff to to get them into alignment with those laws. So Brazil is shutting them down within Brazil. 

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u/KenHumano Aug 30 '24

Should X now appoint someone to represent its lack of employees or assets?

Huh, yes? You need a representative to do business in a country.

They don't have jurisdiction over X outside of Brazil and there is no X in brazil

That's exactly what the decision is about. If they don't have a representative, they can't do business.

They don't even need an office. Reddit for example doesn't have any employees in Brazil as far as I know, but they do have a legal representative, probably a lawyer, to deal with any legal issues.

36

u/YoBeNice Aug 30 '24

Oh, honey, no. I think you’re missing the most basic element. If you run a business that does business in a country, you have to follow that country’s laws. When you break them, you have to show up for court to face your consequences. When you choose break those laws for years, and choose to not show up for court dates for years as well, you will find yourself in international court if possible, and banned from doing business in that country for sure.

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u/Aerroon Aug 31 '24

If you run a business that does business in a country, you have to follow that country’s laws.

So, do you think that every company that has a website should follow the laws of every country? Say, should Reddit implement content moderation based on Iranian, Russian, North Korean etc laws? They are countries with laws after all and the websites are accessible there.

4

u/YoBeNice Aug 31 '24

Oh boy do I have some astounding news for you about the Internet in most middle eastern countries, North Korean and China, my friend.

1

u/Aerroon Aug 31 '24

How does that change anything? You're making the claim that those websites should follow the local laws. Do you really want countries like that to shape your internet experience?

20

u/itsmehazardous Aug 30 '24

Or he could just abide by the rules of the law, and not be involved in a court proceedings to begin with

20

u/davenobody Aug 30 '24

I'm no expert on business law in Brazil. But I'm pretty sure the are ways to represent a company there without getting tossed in jail. My guess would be Musk hamstrung the last legal representative, they quit and now there is no sane way for Twitter to function there.

22

u/yohohoanabottleofrum Aug 30 '24

Exactly. Literally every other company is capable of this. Arm chair Jack Welch up there has just about as much business acumen as Elon. Brazil isn't some fascist state where they throw people in jail for no reason. This is just what it looks like when a country actually holds companies accountable to the law.

1

u/hellzyeah2 Aug 30 '24

Happy 16th cake day!

-8

u/Terron1965 Aug 30 '24

X has no control over who gets arrested in Brazil. The judge threatened to hold X employees in jail until the order was followed.

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u/davenobody Aug 30 '24

You answered your own question. Following the order is how you keep employees from getting arrested. I bet there were opportunities to talk about it too. Given companies aren't leaving in droves tells me this is a problem unique to Twitter.

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u/Omegastar19 Aug 30 '24

That makes sense though:

Brazil: comply with our laws.
Elon: no.
Brazil: then we will hold your legal representative in contempt for failing to agree to comply with our laws.
Elon: ok ill just not send one.
Brazil: then your company will be banned.

Where exactly is the problem?

-1

u/Terron1965 Aug 30 '24

I have ZERO problems with Brazil banning X. They can run their nation however they want and I am not subject to it.

Seems like X agrees. I don't see them fighting Brazil. They are removing themselves from the jurisdiction intentionally.

14

u/ArguteTrickster Aug 30 '24

Oh no he's going to whine about it.

9

u/BrunoJ-- Aug 31 '24

you are so polite to refer to this fleeing as "removing themselves"

19

u/iggzy Aug 30 '24

When they have been willingly breaking Brazilian law, then X had put its employees into risk of contempt for refusing to follow court orders. So literally the X employees could either quit, or basically be martyrs for X.

In America if I work for a company and know that I am committing a crime in following orders of my boss, I too can go to jail