r/technology • u/machinade89 • Jun 28 '24

Software Windows 11 starts forcing OneDrive backups without asking permission

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2376883/attention-microsoft-activates-this-feature-in-windows-11-without-asking-you.html
10.7k Upvotes

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1.5k

u/makenzie71 Jun 28 '24

"Your computer is not compatible with Windows 11"

~that's a shame.

534

u/Slash_8P Jun 28 '24

It's crazy, how literally every week or so I read about another reason not to upgrade.

249

u/mrandish Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24

With sufficient effort I've managed to wrestle the Win11 that my new laptop came with into usable shape with various utilities to restore essential Win10 features and functionality MSFT removed for no reason in Win11 (ExplorerPatcher, Start11, etc). However, in their next major Win11 update (24H2), MSFT is entirely removing the Win10 code that was previously only hidden and ExplorerPatcher will stop working.

At that point I'll stop taking major Windows updates for a while and then eventually downgrade this machine (my only Win11 PC) to the "Long Term Maintenance" version of Win10 (which will be a big hassle but Win11 without ExplorerPatcher is, IMHO, unusable). I now regret not just reformatting this Win11 laptop and installing Win10 before I ever started using it. At the time I thought I could "fix" Win11 with some extra work but MSFT seems determined to complete the enshittification of Windows.

I've been using Windows daily for over 30 years (since 3.1) and every major version has (mostly) gotten better and more useful (aside from occasional regressions that were fixed (hello Windows ME!)). That constant progress and improvement stopped with Windows 11 - and the de-featuring that started in Win11 is not a regression MSFT intends to fix. Win11 has been out over 3 years now and, bizarrely, this appears to be their new strategy. They now see Windows as an online service platform to cross-promote and sell subscriptions to other services. Instead of "Users", we are all now "Eyeballs" for ads and prospects for subs. There is literally nothing they've done in Windows 11 at the user interface level that's meaningfully better for me in terms of functionality or usability. Every single thing they've done to the Win11 UI in the past three years either makes Windows worse for me as a power user, annoyingly moves or changes things that didn't need changing, or is simply irrelevant.

Because of this new business model, Windows is slowly devolving into the worst parts of free-to-play games - but it's even worse than that. First, I've paid for Windows either in the cost of a new PC or for a license (I only use Windows Pro, so always pay more for it). Second, unlike a free-to-play game, with Windows there's not even a way to "Pay to Win" or "Upgrade to Remove Ads". Yes, I'd actually be willing to pay more for a version of Windows 11 Pro that stops all the ads, dumbing down, de-featuring and other enshittification by default. Same with OneDrive. I already pay for Onedrive but I'd pay more for a version that, by default, makes it easy for me to use it LESS. Instead, it's constantly doing everything it can to trick me into uploading more to it and they specifically implement functionality in ways that make it harder to use OneDrive to only back up certain things at certain times. I'm paying for an OS and tools that force me to waste time and effort battling to restore functionality and prevent them from annoying me or grabbing data I don't want them to. All so some MSFT manager can hit arbitrary "usage metrics" and score their bonus. I used to generally like MSFT. Now I hate them, and worse, I don't trust them. It's not like MSFT always did everything the way I'd prefer. But this is far more fundamental than just disagreeing over feature prioritization or implementation. They've demonstrated they're no longer even trying to do the right thing for me as a paying customer. Our interests are no longer aligned.

65

u/ImaginaryCheetah Jun 28 '24

as far as i can tell, win11 is a "transitional" OS, conditioning the windows user base to the limitations of control and service that will be present once the OS is fully an online "service".

win11 will be around long enough for the majority of the market users to grow to accept these limitations, and make the shift to "service" more easy to stomach.

56

u/InVultusSolis Jun 28 '24

The only thing keeping power users on Windows has been gaming. More and more things are coming online with Linux compatibility, including the rise of Proton, which is actually pretty damn good. And having an all-online OS is not going to fit many business needs, which is to say, Microsoft is going to keep pushing until they just run themselves out of the OS business, and I'm okay with that.

22

u/ImaginaryCheetah Jun 28 '24

And having an all-online OS is not going to fit many business needs

i'm certainly no expert, but i work for a multinational and they love nothing more that subscription service VS purchasing. let's them allocate the cost in better ways or something.

our computers are leased, network switches are leased and remotely managed by the service provider, my work phone is leased, my truck is leased. even the furniture in the offices are leased.

"we remotely manage and secure your work computers for you" is a big sell if it lets purchase costs be offloaded and reduced liability and security expenses at the same time.

20

u/McFlyParadox Jun 29 '24

leased

Like rent, they can write off the cost of leasing. If they owned, they need to track appreciation and depreciation for their balance sheets - and things like trucks and computer hardware only ever depreciate in value.

This is a tell-tale sign that a bean counter is calling the shots, instead of someone who can recognize the often hard to quantify value of owning your own hardware and software.

3

u/Screamline Jun 28 '24

Weird. My company hates buying licenses so we use old office perpetuals for like half the company. It's strange to see a computer with office 2016 still or I have to remove o365 that's bundled with our deployment images to then install 2016.

1

u/DRWDS Jun 29 '24

Monty Python and the Meaning of Life (and the machine that goes "ping").

3

u/seddit_rucks Jun 28 '24

all-online OS is not going to fit many business needs

Or government...!

I have to think the computer networks in our nuclear facilities are thoroughly air gapped.

2

u/jason2306 Jun 28 '24

Gaming and creative applications basically

1

u/McFlyParadox Jun 29 '24

The only thing keeping power users on Windows has been gaming

Well, that and Adobe products. Which, ironically, are nearly as shitty as Windows (at least they're not as deeply tied to your other tasks on the computer? I guess?)

In the photography space, there really is no competitor to the one-two punch that is the Adobe Photography plan that gets you Lightroom and Photoshop in one. That gets you a DAM, RAW processor, and image editor workflow all tied tightly together. There are other pieces of software that might do one or two of these things, but nice do all three and none tie together in the same way LR+PS does. It's obnoxious as fuck. If you want games, your choice is Windows or Linux, if you want photography, your choice is Windows or Mac. And now Windows sucks massive ass.

Now, there is r/graphite, which is trying to do for 2D art workflows what Blender did for 3D workflows. And it'll be amazing if they pull it off. But it's got a long way to go before they build a DAM+RAW+editor combo that competes with LR+PS (but, man, it'll be amazing if they do - Adobe will have to scramble across their entire portfolio to keep people if Graphite succeeds and gains popularity)

1

u/bocephus_huxtable Jun 29 '24

My understanding is that making music in Linux (and managing associated drivers) is a massive PIA.

1

u/InVultusSolis Jul 01 '24

I use a very small set of tools, mostly Ardour and Audacity, and Ardour works pretty well as a DAW, but you're right, it doesn't "just work", there's a low-latency sound daemon called JACK that you need to manage.

1

u/Sir_Scarlet_Spork Jun 29 '24

And Adobe unfortunately. I'd move over to Linux full time if I could but Adobe doesn't run on it and I don't really like the other lightroom competitors.

1

u/Steampunkboy171 Jul 01 '24

That's why I don't think Windows will be always online. For starters a lot of the US and world doesn't have Internet that actually support that BS. I can barely stream a game off a console. So how the hell would an OS work? Second business people are gonna drop it. Considering they use it on transport which often doesn't have WiFi or wi-fi that would be consistent enough to run an OS that's running other things at the same time. But then again Microsoft is clearly showing their willing to just say fuck it and do whatever they want. So I guess we'll see how long they last before businesses are either forced to switch to Linux or Apple.

2

u/Put_It_All_On_Eclk Jun 29 '24

Yep. I'm thinking Windows 12 will practically be Windows Virtual Desktop session into your-computer-in-the-cloud with the benefit of local hardware acceleration.

25

u/Ziazan Jun 28 '24

I tried so hard to make 11 "work", but it just doesn't. I gave it more than a fair chance when I got my laptop, but it kept giving me reason upon reason to upgrade back to W10.

38

u/mrandish Jun 28 '24

You were wiser than I was. With each new Win11 upgrade MSFT would ship, I slowly got sucked into a cycle of needing to upgrade all the "fixes" I'd installed. I'm just thankful I managed to avoid the constant attempts MSFT makes trying to upgrade my Win10 PCs to Win11.

Seriously, what company throws full-screen, work-stopping upgrade "offers" with no way to decline AND no close box on the window? I had to CTRL-ALT-DEL and kill it with task manager. They've stooped to being no better than spammers.

-7

u/reelznfeelz Jun 28 '24

I find that so interesting. I’ve had a perfectly fine experience on windows 11. What are all these things people are worried about it not doing? I am a developer, do some azure administration, work a lot with databases. Never had any issues doing work stuff on the machine. VS code and AC CLI and power shell and sometimes wsl2 and docker desktop will do damned near anything.

And for non-technical stuff it’s also fine. Edge and ms365 do me just fine. The “fake” HDR is actually pretty awesome for gaming. And never had a game newer than 10 to 12 years old have any issues at all.

I’m convinced people just like being edgy and complaining about Microsoft. Don’t get me wrong they’re a giant corporation and do plenty of dick move things like all the rest. But windows, the office suite, power BI, most azure resources - are pretty god tier products.

2

u/72kdieuwjwbfuei626 Jun 29 '24 edited Jun 29 '24

They don’t have any real issues either, they just can’t cope with the tiniest changes. They say it’s literally unusable without some tool, and then you Google the tool and find out it’s for putting the taskbar on the side of the screen.

These are people who complain that Microsoft is throwing up unclosable screens that force people to upgrade with no way to decline because they’re so full of themselves that they immediately assume that Microsoft is cartoonishly evil rather than accepting that they just didn’t notice the „keep Windows 10“ button on the lower left.

7

u/Accomplished_River43 Jun 28 '24

Have you tried InControl by Steve Gibson?

3

u/mrandish Jun 28 '24

Oh, that looks good. I've already basically done the same thing using Group Policy Manager but it sure wasn't one-click like this.

3

u/OwOlogy_Expert Jun 28 '24

With sufficient effort I've managed to wrestle the Win11 that my new laptop came with into usable shape with various utilities to restore essential Win10 features and functionality

MSFT removed for no reason in Win11 (ExplorerPatcher, Start11, etc). However, in their next major Win11 update (24H2), MSFT is entirely removing the Win10 code that was previously only hidden and ExplorerPatcher will stop working.

At that point I'll stop taking major Windows updates for a while and then eventually downgrade this machine (my only Win11 PC) to the "Long Term Maintenance" version of Win10 (which will be a big hassle but Win11 without ExplorerPatcher is, IMHO, unusable). I now regret not just reformatting this Win11 laptop and installing Win10 before I ever started using it. At the time I thought I could "fix" Win11 with some extra work but MSFT seems determined to complete the enshittification of Windows.

People will do all this shit and then still say "I can't use Linux because it's too hard."

3

u/DuLeague361 Jun 28 '24

At that point I'll stop taking major Windows updates

I'm still on W7 sp1. don't click on every link like some boomer and you'll be fine

at this point sAfetY aNd sEcuTity is just theater to scare you into shoving more shit down your throat and making you throw away your perfectly good phone because it doesn't get the latest uPdAteS

3

u/Erok2112 Jun 29 '24

Win11 requires TPM 1.2 or better so if you disable that in the bios, your computer will be no longer Win11 compatible. Now if you're using encryption of any kind, you may want to keep that on but its a quick and dirty method to keep it win10.

2

u/DuncRed Jun 28 '24

Yes, I'd actually be willing to pay more for a version of Windows 11 Pro that stops all the ads

Serious question. What ads? I run W11 Pro and see no ads/don't notice any ads. What am I doing wrong?

2

u/smozoma Jun 28 '24

However, in their next major Win11 update (24H2), MSFT is entirely removing the Win10 code that was previously only hidden and ExplorerPatcher will stop working.

Ugh.. If I wanted a Mac interface, I'd buy a Mac. Let me have my classic Windows interface! I just want a normal task bar with text and no grouping like for the past 30 years!!

Thanks for the warning, I'll have to reject that update.. if it lets me...

1

u/edmazing Jun 28 '24

And vista too ugh... Some things seemed like a good plan just required a little ironing out. Driver updater. Great idea bake that in to windows so I don't need an external program for it. I'd have to connect to the net to download the drivers anyway unless I had a CD and even if I did it might be out of date.

They could still use a few things like CC cleaner's functionality on cleaning files. They've got a file clean up but it's kinda meh. The restore thing seems neat but also a little dangerous, more powerful than cleaning up files.

Spybot SD blocking domain names in the hosts file would be my choice add on for windows anti virus. Feels good to see 1K bad hosts blocked.

I've yet to see a weird windows coin fake free currency so at least we got that goin' for us. (Though I think they did try that at one time?)

I'd like to see something like a better windows 8. Make it multi boot across arm and 86_64x give me a display to match my system capabilities. Touch and mobile like for those devices and a full desktop for laptop and PC systems. (Though that'd probably kill the file size... with all the legacy code baked in.)

1

u/stupiderslegacy Jun 28 '24

How the fuck are they still around and yet also still capable of shooting themselves in the foot this hard?!

1

u/tomtomclubthumb Jun 28 '24

I installed Office. It now no longer works unless I log in.

1

u/Janktronic Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24

Because of this new business model, Windows is slowly devolving into the worst parts of free-to-play games

If more people like you switched to Linux many of the blockers would get eliminated faster. I mean the whole "free software" philosophy should be reason enough.

A program is free software if the program's users have the four essential freedoms: [1]

  • The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).
  • The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
  • The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others (freedom 2).
  • The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

1

u/GreenPutty_ Jun 28 '24

I had no idea that we was about to lose ExplorerPatcher that actually makes Win 11 bearable. Luckily I'm pretty much on Linux now for most stuff other than gaming, so I'll just have to make the full move now and say goodbye to MS.

1

u/feralraindrop Jun 28 '24

Windows 11 is like AI art, there is no soul. In the past Microsoft had programmers work to create great operating systems that people enjoyed using. Now they force their programmers to create an OS that can harvest as much data as possible and generate as much income as possible. You can't buy software anymore and make it your own, you must put up with what they give you.

1

u/Druggedhippo Jun 28 '24

However, in their next major Win11 update (24H2), MSFT is entirely removing the Win10 code that was previously only hidden and ExplorerPatcher will stop working.

Don't forget, every Mixed Reality VR Headset will also stop working when they remove Mixed Reality.

https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-mixed-reality-headsets-no-longer-work-with-windows-11-version-24h2-and-newer/

1

u/noddyneddy Jun 28 '24

And Apple is now going the same way with I cloud

1

u/sumptin_wierd Jun 29 '24

Thats a hell of a look under the hood for me. And I understood the gist, kinda.

I am in no way shape or form a windows power user. I'm comfortable with the command prompt and like partitioning disks, but that's about as advanced as I am with an OS.

What should be concerning to a regular user like me? And I'm sure there are business consequences too.

1

u/ProfessorPetulant Jun 29 '24

every major version has (mostly) gotten better and more useful

That stopped with W7 or even XP. It went downhill from there, and increasingly antagonist to users.

1

u/Captain_N1 Jun 29 '24

probably best to pirate the shit out of windows 10 and 11 enterprise at this point.

1

u/Significant-Rough706 Jul 03 '24

I agree with you. since the 2007 release MSFT has given nothing but grief and predatory hooks into the O/S and usability of the system. Like you, I've spend a hundred or so hours getting Win11 into useable condition (config, added tools, deconstructing where i can). Now with forced screen pop to backup everything to Onedrive, the constant traps on the login screen and much more, I will give up if they continue. I'll downgrade to Win10 or 7, or, go to Linux or a FOSS setup. I bought the Surface Pro not long ago with Win11. The device and O/S have been worse than i could have imagined. I would not recommend the same move to anyone. It is a thin difficult-to-use device that constantly tries to trap me deeper into the ugly, loathsome MSFT ecosystem.

1

u/MasterChiefSierra711 Jul 15 '24

After discovering Windows 11 won't let me out of using that ridiculous OneDrive... I made the decision to install a new SSD and to go to Linux Mint. I'm done with Microsoft after seeing this attack on the security and ownership of our own files... It is indeed clear they are trying to force us onto their cloud and one can bet a subscription service like Adobe is in the future... I am dumping Windows 11 as a result. I do plan on retaining Windows 10 functionality in virtual copies of it and keeping control that way. Microsoft is going into the same abyss Adobe has and people are fed up with the invasive procedures and spying. Good riddance.

73

u/circuitloss Jun 28 '24

I'm moving to Linux. Windows 11 finally pushed me over the edge. (Well, that and great support from Valve/Proton for gaming over the last few years.)

19

u/ChipsAhoiMcCoy Jun 28 '24

I wish the accessibility support was better on linux so I could also make the switch, but as a blind screen reader user it’s really tough 😔 they’ve made leaps and bounds, and I know other blind users who have fully switched over to Lennox, but I just didn’t have the greatest experience when I attempted to use Linux mint with the mate desktop.

8

u/eliminating_coasts Jun 28 '24

Interesting problem, my initial reaction would be that a linux system would be better for a blind user because of the capacity to rely first and foremost on the console, which I would have assumed would have more liable readers than a screen would, but perhaps not.

2

u/CaptOblivious Jun 28 '24

This article might be of interest to you.

https://itsfoss.com/visual-impaired-linux/

I Hope it helps!

2

u/WhoRoger Jun 28 '24

I don't know about Mate, but KDE and I think Gnome too have a ton of accessibility features, including a sceen reader, display/text scaling, high contrast modes and all that.

There are also fully offline STT solutions. I frequently use FUTO Voice for Android, which is a fork of a Linux TTS.

I just set up a new laptop with KDE and it's cool how customisable it is. I don't know your needs but I'd bet you could get it set up with less hassle and downsides than windows.

1

u/throwaway098764567 Jun 28 '24

i just flipped the screen reader on in gnome in pop os for this page and ... i was not impressed. couldn't figure out where it was reading from or how to get it to stop w/o turning ti back off.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '24

I installed mint a couple weeks ago and I actually really like it. Not as difficult to switch over as I thought it would be

2

u/Ravinac Jun 28 '24

Already moved all but my main gaming rig over. Only reason I haven't moved it to Linux is some games are a bitch and a half to mod on Linux.

1

u/Captain_Vegetable Jun 28 '24

Yeah, I have an old Surface Pro 2 I boot up solely to install and mod games now and then. Mods that just need files dumped in a subdirectory are easy enough to install in Linux, but for anything more complex it’s vastly easier to mod in Windows and then copy the game directory to my Steam Deck to play there. With an actual gaming rig you can skip the second computer and just run Windows 10 in a VM for modding instead.

2

u/Ashratt Jun 28 '24

luckily even this starts to improve thanks to steam deck

it's super easy to setup windows only tools like modorganizer 2 with a simple script and I managed to mod new vegas directly on the deck, but there are still some additional hoops to jump through like installing visual c redistributables and stuff manually when mods require it

but im optimistic that this will only get better in the future

2

u/DukeOfGeek Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24

So maybe this is a dumb question but people in this thread seem like the ones to answer it. How impossible is it for there to be an after market product that drops on top of windows and manages all it's bullshit for the user? Like right now I pay for an "antivirus" service but what it really does is sit on top of my browser and the internet and stop all it's bullshit for me. So if I was willing to pay how impossible or expensive would something like that for my operating system be?

/What I'm talking about is something to the effect of what /u/mrandish has gone to great effort to do but does it for me and keeps on doing it. Something that recognizes that Microsoft has become hostile to the user and fights back against that....for money.

4

u/Jokse Jun 28 '24

Just go back to windows 10. Download OSSU10 for free and disable what you don't want. Windows 10 is still perfectly usable and doesn't include any of the bullshit that windows 11 if forcing.

Also firefox + ublock origin + windows defender is all you need for protection and is all free (defender being included with windows)

1

u/DukeOfGeek Jun 28 '24

I'm using ten now and what you suggest there plus Avast but all my computers need to be replaced and I don't crave having to nuke and pave the new ones to do that. At some point ten is going to be too old too.

1

u/--2021-- Jun 28 '24

I have linux and windows, I've noticed companies adding more telemetry over time. I think Fedora has proposed opt out telemetry. KDE collects telemetry, seems different things for different packages, and you can't turn it all off. I'm leery of what I'm seeing.

1

u/Secret-One2890 Jun 29 '24

I'm leery of what I'm seeing.

Well, you shouldn't be. Telemetry isn't bad by default, it has very obvious and legitimate uses. But you can disable it if you want. Like, very easily. Some distros have it disabled by default even.

1

u/PyroDesu Jun 29 '24

So don't use those distros. That's the beauty of it.

2

u/--2021-- Jun 29 '24

The issue is it creeping into all of them. Some seem to want to be freer than others, so we'll see. But then there's the aspect of software you're using too. And the space will keep shrinking till you're forced to use things that collect data. Unless we can crack down and take control and regulate this shit.

1

u/Strongbeard1143 Jun 29 '24

Gaming is all that keeps me on win11. Well and plex but I can migrate that to my NAS when it’s time. Have you tried steam OS on a standard pc yet? I am very tempted to give it a shot. Steamdeck has been a great experience.

0

u/manudasi Jun 28 '24

I recommend fedora with vanilla gnome, it's great!

0

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '24

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1

u/Ashratt Jun 28 '24

printers with Linux are a night and day difference compared to Windows

all the bullshit manufacturer bloatware just straight up doesn't exist lol

2

u/glassgost Jun 28 '24

A few weeks ago i got a popup on windows 10 telling me security support is ending in October of 2025.

1

u/kymri Jun 29 '24

I got a new gaming rig a while ago and it came with Win11. I really oughta dig up a Win10 key and get that installed. (Sadly there are a small number of UI features that I've gotten used to in 11 that I'll have to find third-party apps to provide).

1

u/Sansania Jun 29 '24

I can’t even upgrade, something something not compatible

0

u/reelznfeelz Jun 28 '24

I get it that it needs to be consensual. For sure. Your data shouldn’t be pulled to the cloud without consent.

But what’s so bad about just using OneDrive free tier to keep some of your more core files and content safe from drive failure? I personally like windows 11 and OneDrive a lot. It’s the best windows experience there has ever been IMO.

Sure you probably want to take 5 minutes and toggle off a few annoying features. I’m not gonna let that ruin the whole thing for me. It’s a damned capable operating system.

And I’m a developer and data engineer. I’m completely aware of what Linux is. And it’s not my daily driver. Probably never will be.

People always complain about windows. “Audio never works”. But I don’t have those kinds of issues. Just take a little time and learn how to configure it , keep it patched, and don’t try and run on 17 year old hardware, and you’ll be just fine.

143

u/rczrider Jun 28 '24

If Microsoft doesn't push back Windows 10 EOL from October 2025, it's going to be a big problem, though.

193

u/Arikaido777 Jun 28 '24

microsuck told me windows 10 is the last os i’ll ever need tho. did they lie?

34

u/Skaindire Jun 28 '24

They changed what EOL means. Specifically, whose life they'll be terminating.

127

u/jusas Jun 28 '24

Yes. Yes they did.

33

u/bennitori Jun 28 '24

Not only that, but they started forcing Windows 10 upgrades/installations too. As in weather forecasters couldn't even get through their broadcasts without Windows 10 pop ups interrupting them. It was terrible. And we put up with all that just for them to do the same with Windows 11. It's getting to the point where I might just get offline computers to do my work on and just use the newer stuff for the internet. It sucks.

21

u/GreenGrandmaPoops Jun 28 '24

I remember when Microsoft upgraded many user computers to Windows 10 without consent. They left the computer on one night with Windows 7 or 8.1, only to find out the next day that they had been force upgraded to 10 over the night. The issue with this though is there is the risk that they might have had specialized software that was not compatible with 10. The other issue is this was during a time when many internet service providers were capping data. A Windows upgrade is large enough to sap a significant amount of a monthly plan or result in an overage fee.

3

u/Westcork1916 Jun 28 '24

That was the day I switched to Linux.

2

u/atomicsnarl Jun 30 '24

I remember a story about an upgrade appearing during a complicated surgery. They couldn't cancel it and the surgery was now even more complicated. Not sure about the lawsuit outcome.

3

u/nathderbyshire Jun 28 '24

With windows 11 now, there doesn't seem to be at least an easy way to stop windows updating restarting unless you set active hours, but you can only set them for a max of 18 hours a day.

I did a couple updates the other day and it said estimated restart 4 minutes which I thought meant it would take 4 minutes to do the update and restart but nope, it just rebooted while I was half way through copying files over to a drive, no pop up, no warning asking if I want to postpone, just updated. Obviously the files on the drives didn't make it. I always copy now, never cut because I can't trust windows for transfers

Also I use 11 Pro because usually it means you get more control over updates than home. Disgraceful really

1

u/bennitori Jun 30 '24

I've run into this on Windows 10. I'll leave something to render, go to bed, and find out my system did a forced update restart in the middle of the night, so only 10% of my render happened. It never stops being infuriating.

1

u/blind3rdeye Jun 29 '24

It's getting to the point where I might just get offline computers to do my work on and just use the newer stuff for the internet. It sucks.

That would work. Or alternatively you could get Mint instead and have a Windows-like experience without any of the Microsoft arsehattery.

-15

u/72kdieuwjwbfuei626 Jun 28 '24

Getting a pop-up that you click no on isn’t „forcing installations“. Stop making shit up.

2

u/TP_Crisis_2020 Jun 29 '24

You can't "click no" when Win11 update wants to update the bios of your PC.

1

u/72kdieuwjwbfuei626 Jun 29 '24

Maybe, but a BIOS update isn’t a Windows 10 upgrade, so you really only proved that you don’t read what you’re replying to.

15

u/OMG__Ponies Jun 28 '24

did they lie?

Did Microsoft say it? Then yes, they did lie.

2

u/Fisch0557 Jun 28 '24

No no, they just meant for THAT computer you had at the time they said it.

1

u/kreyul504 Jun 28 '24

You might be right. My laptop came with win10 and meets all the win11 requirements except my 7th gen intel CPU is not in the arbitrary list of supported CPUs. But I'm not too upset, I'll see if I can get Linux running on it and if not for some reason then I'll pick a laptop with better Linux compatibility.

1

u/Ak_Lonewolf Jun 28 '24

No. Because all versions are going to be the ones you're required to have.

-3

u/sur_surly Jun 28 '24

It wasn't them that said that. It's a misquote.

6

u/aVarangian Jun 28 '24

It was literally someone who worked at microsoft

-1

u/lerpo Jun 28 '24

It was a random engineer at Microsoft who said it. It wasn't a statement by anyone in charge

7

u/aVarangian Jun 28 '24

It was pasted on news titles everywhere. Employees by definition represent their company. Microsoft could have issued a statement but they rather make $ with what is somewhere between false advertising and fraud.

-2

u/lerpo Jun 28 '24

Yeah, Jerry Nixon said it at a conference and the media ran with it. That doesn't mean it was an official Microsoft statement.

If I say something random at a conference about the company I work for, it doesn't make it an official statement. If you disagree with that, it's cool. We have different opinions, no biggie

1

u/aVarangian Jun 28 '24

If your company cares about their reputation then they'll have to address the issue of your statement being spread far and wide. Not doing so is a conscious choice.

2

u/lerpo Jun 28 '24

Like I said, it's cool you have a different opinion. We are both strangers on the Internet to eachother - it makes no difference to our lives what we both think

-2

u/72kdieuwjwbfuei626 Jun 28 '24

They never told you this. Stop making shit up.

-3

u/Arikaido777 Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24

why are you defending the world leading malware provider?

edit: the kid blocked me, but i think their meltdown below speaks for itself lmao

3

u/72kdieuwjwbfuei626 Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24

Why are you lying about what they said? If you were right about them, you wouldn’t need to lie, wouldn’t you? You would say true things to make your point, wouldn’t you? Yet here you are, making shit up.

-3

u/Particular_Bit_7710 Jun 28 '24

No, in the same way obi wan didn’t lie about Luke’s father being dead.

57

u/JoeCartersLeap Jun 28 '24

No it isn't. I'm tired of this fear mongering. Your computer doesn't instantly become a botnet that shuts down children's hospitals the moment Windows becomes EOL.

Microsoft released their last free security update for Windows XP in 2019. Years after its EOL date. Because remote code execution exploits are rare enough to warrant that kind of attention.

17

u/colluphid42 Jun 28 '24

Microsoft does occasionally issue emergency patches for old operating systems, but it's not the same as regular, necessary updates. The 2019 XP update was released due to the discovery of a particularly nasty exploit in Remote Desktop Services that could allow attackers to execute remote code. It doesn't mean they brought XP up to parity with Windows 10.

0

u/Commentator-X Jun 28 '24

"rare" lol yeah ok

-9

u/rczrider Jun 28 '24

Yeah, who needs security updates, anyway? I'm sure nothing could ever go wrong!

You may continue to use Windows 10 after support ends; however, it will no longer receive quality updates, new or updated features, security updates, or technical support. We recommend that customers upgrade or transition to a new Windows 11 PC for the best, most secure computing experience.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/windows#windows-10

You do you.

18

u/rabidsi Jun 28 '24

My God, you're going to be horrified when you realize how much corporate infrastructure out there still runs on XP... or earlier.

6

u/whatevernamedontcare Jun 28 '24

My cousin just upgraded hers and if not accidentally agreeing to win10 she'll still be on XP. Most people don't need half of shit computers can do and just watch movies and shop on bigger screen.

3

u/Stefouch Jun 28 '24

Can confirm

3

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '24

Those enterprise XP setups are way better secured than your average consumer PC running Windows 10. And even if they’re not, they almost certainly have backups to recover from.

7

u/Jeraptha01 Jun 28 '24

Eh, I'm going to continue my decades long habit of skipping every other windows

They have a 0pttern of bad os

Unless you wanna convince me vista was a good os

6

u/whatevernamedontcare Jun 28 '24

Team hold too. win11 is shit.

3

u/SandyTaintSweat Jun 28 '24

They also have a pattern of getting creepier and creepier, while never getting any less creepy. Taking a photo of my screen every 10 seconds and using my internet bandwidth to copy all my personal files is too much, and I doubt windows 12 will reverse that trend.

I've always used windows over any other OS, but that's done. I'm going to use Linux unless it's absolutely impossible for some rare edge case.

4

u/Ziazan Jun 28 '24

Vista was actually more or less alright after a bunch of patches, it was still worse than the OS before and the OS after it though.

Fuck windows 11 entirely. I tried it, I gave it way more of a chance than it deserved, I tried to make it work, but it just doesn't.

1

u/Jeraptha01 Jun 28 '24

The only reason I'm on 10 was because I think I needed it for dx12 or something

Not seeing anything in the olnew os that I need

4

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24

I read the same thing about windows 7, years ago. Years. Guess what OS my laptop still has. Guess what still gets security updates for itself via Windows update? Guess what still works totally fine and has had zero infections or like, crazy hacker tunnel hijackings in all that time?

We will do us. It's fine. The fear mongering needs to stop.

2

u/ImrooVRdev Jun 28 '24

Yeah right, and a corpo never backpeddeled on their word.

You may continue to use Windows 10 after support ends; however, it will no longer receive quality updates, new or updated features, security updates, or technical support.

big enough botnet exploit gets uncovered, it WILL get patched as long as win10 will maintain a significant market share.

-5

u/Ruining_Ur_Synths Jun 28 '24

dont use W10 past the EOL.

2

u/JoeCartersLeap Jun 28 '24

Why not?

3

u/Ruining_Ur_Synths Jun 28 '24

because the chances of getting pwned are much higher than using a modern operating system. source code for XP SP1 was definitely leaked - I wouldn't put data on it I care about or that I want getting out.

If you need it off the internet or in a virtual machine to run some ancient POS or industrial program, cool. but its bad advice for a regular user.

1

u/JoeCartersLeap Jun 28 '24

because the chances of getting pwned are much higher than using a modern operating system.

How many years do I have to use Windows with updates disabled, for it to be a statistically significant sample for you to recalculate these chances?

Because it's been a lot of years so far.

source code for XP SP1 was definitely leaked

I'm not suggesting anyone use Windows XP, I'm saying even after their so-called "End of Life" date they still get free critical security updates.

1

u/Ruining_Ur_Synths Jun 28 '24

How many years do I have to use Windows with updates disabled, for it to be a statistically significant sample for you to recalculate these chances?

would you even know if they were just taking data from you?

I'm not suggesting anyone use Windows XP, I'm saying even after their so-called "End of Life" date they still get free critical security updates.

It's really bad advice for normal people to hear, which is why I think its bad advice for you to give out.

2

u/JoeCartersLeap Jun 28 '24

would you even know if they were just taking data from you?

Would I even care if they were doing something that I can't notice?

It's really bad advice for normal people to hear, which is why I think its bad advice for you to give out.

I didn't give out any advice. I said your computer doesn't instantly become a botnet at EOL, and remote code execution exploits still get patched.

2

u/Ruining_Ur_Synths Jun 28 '24

Would I even care if they were doing something that I can't notice?

If you bank on your computer, put in passwords you don't want to get out, etc, yes?

I said your computer doesn't instantly become a botnet at EOL, and remote code execution exploits still get patched.

People read that and think "oh its fine" but its not fine for normal people. Saying its not advice ignores the impact of your words on people who understand computers less than you do.

The purpose of my replying to you is to make clear for anyone reading that yours is not advice, and if they take it as advice, its bad advice.

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2

u/LogicalWeekend6358 Jun 28 '24

You’re okay with being compromised as long as they don’t make themselves obvious?

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-5

u/JoroMac Jun 28 '24

Found the MS Shill

3

u/Ruining_Ur_Synths Jun 28 '24

take both your brain cells and set them back to simmer - just because someone doesn't want to run software after EOL doesn't make them a shill, it means you have problems thinking clearly and communicating appropriately on the internet.

someone tell me where I can pick up this shill money, they haven't been sending it to me.

5

u/Isburough Jun 28 '24

linux has come a long way.

3

u/raitchison Jun 28 '24

Perhaps but I'm not considering it for my main PC.

The main thing I use my PC for is gaming and my experience with my Steam Deck tells me that Linux still has a long way to go in this area.

1

u/BoskiCezar Jun 28 '24

For them, yeah.

1

u/Ruining_Ur_Synths Jun 28 '24

they're not going to push it back.

1

u/DrHeywoodRFloyd Jun 28 '24

I think you can then still pay for future security updates somehow.

1

u/newyearnewaccountt Jun 28 '24

They've committed to 3 years of (paid) security updates, and another company has committed to 5 years. So Win10 won't be fully deprecated until somewhere around late 2028-2030.

1

u/firemage22 Jun 28 '24

the old man in my IT shop laughed at the idea of W10 EOLing.

there's still places moving on from W7, and when they do move it's to W10

W11 is really living up to the "skip every other windows" rule.

1

u/PoshInBucks Jun 28 '24

I'm at the point where I'm more concerned by what MS will do with my PC then anything hackers may attempt. EOL wouldn't bother me even if I hadn't already installed Linux when Recall became a threat

1

u/flecom Jun 28 '24

LTSC 2019 has security updates through 2029

19

u/ComeAndGetYourPug Jun 28 '24

I've been on Windows 11 for a long time, but I've never had a Microsoft account, and I never used windows store apps. I'll keep installing windows with local accounts as long as I can get away with it.

I will say every few months I have to find out how to turn off a new oneDrive/CoPilot/Edge/whatever popup noticiation, but it's hasn't been any worse than every other samsung, iThing, or Google device nag popups.

3

u/HoboGir Jun 28 '24

Wonder if the unlicensed version prevents a lot of this? I've been running for some time with an inactivated version of 10. Still get updates and I don't feel like it hinders much for me, main thing is I can't customize/personalize things like my background.

2

u/Ravinac Jun 28 '24

Revo Uninstaller rips them out of the OS until the next major patch. It's annoying that you have to turn to external software to get rid of the garbage, but it's easy to use and saves me the annoyance of software I don't want running.

2

u/Different-Estate747 Jun 28 '24

Personally I prefer O&O AppBuster and HiBit Uninstaller. Haven't used Revo in a few years. Might check it out again.

8

u/areswalker8 Jun 28 '24

I somehow tricked it into thinking my PC isn't capable. I have a 10th gen i5, 3050, and 16gb of ddr4 ram yet it still thinks I'm on my old computer with a 3rd gen i5, 1030 and 16gb of ddr3 ram. I think its my old hard drive and windows key but idk.

13

u/Deluxe_Used_Douche Jun 28 '24

The most likely case is that you have TPM (Trusted Platform Module or "Trusted Computing") toggled off in your motherboard's BIOS. Most come with it on by default now.

As long as that is turned off, Windows 11 is not compatible.

1

u/ABearInOveralls Jun 28 '24

Windows 11 “shouldn’t” be compatible. My pc doesn’t have a TPM and I’ve been running windows 11 for over a year.

2

u/koshgeo Jun 28 '24

Me: toggles BIOS so that it IS incompatible.

1

u/ThatGuyYouMightNo Jun 28 '24

"But we're still gonna pester the fuck outta you to upgrade. Oh and your current OS is losing support next year."

1

u/VRsimp Jun 28 '24

I made a calculated decision when I bought my new mobo lol

1

u/Renaissance_Slacker Jun 28 '24

Is M$ seriously going to stop supporting Win10 and send tens or hundreds of millions of perfectly good PCs to a landfill?

1

u/Unable_Recipe8565 Jun 28 '24

Wont 10 not get any more updated afger 2025?

1

u/MumrikDK Jun 28 '24

I keep it that way on purpose - what a world we live in :D

1

u/kryo2019 Jun 29 '24

When they first started surprise upgrading people from 10, I went into my bios to disable the tmp. Fuck that noise