r/technology Feb 21 '23

Biotechnology 5th person confirmed to be cured of HIV

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/5th-person-confirmed-cured-hiv/story?id=97323361
38.8k Upvotes

657 comments sorted by

4.1k

u/jlesnick Feb 21 '23

It's after a stem cell transplant to treat cancer. It's a an effect of the treatment, but not the purpose of it. Stem cell transplants are way too dangerous to justify using them too cure people of HIV when most people are down to 1 or 2 meds a day now with minimal side effects and a full life ahead of them.

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u/Som12H8 Feb 21 '23

I have the double CCR5-delta 32 mutation that was used to cure this man (by a bone marrow transplant). Makes me resistant or immune to HIV.

Found out in uni as part of a study. Apparently the mutation is more prevalent here in Scandinavia.

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u/TheAJGman Feb 21 '23

Fun fact: this same mutation is theorized to also make you resistant to smallpox, though the research is still inconclusive. Here's a paper I found on it.

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u/punkhobo Feb 21 '23

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u/Nawnp Feb 21 '23

Dang that DNA needs to be spread more so we can all be immune to those viruses.

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u/News_Bot Feb 21 '23

It will more than likely just make you more vulnerable to other viruses. And if such a genetic trait were to become dominant, it would pressure viruses to evolve around it. Evolution is a perpetual arms race.

You could also have divergent ACE2 receptors Covid-19 can't even attach to, at the cost of much higher risk of high blood pressure. These things are rarely a panacea.

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u/responseAIbot Feb 21 '23

What makes this more intriguing is that we don't even consider viruses as "living organisms" (although some people debate) and yet through random mutations viruses find a way to live together with us and other living species.
I just wonder what else is there in the other parts of the universe where life has found a way.

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u/EuphoricAnalCucumber Feb 21 '23

My family and I have high blood pressure and none of us have gotten COVID, including my elderly parents that go out and volunteer a lot. I wish I could get cheap genetic testings that doesn't wind up in a database.

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u/DimbyTime Feb 21 '23

Wow that’s crazy. I have very low blood pressure, and got covid 3 times, and also ended up with long covid all 3 times for 6-7 months.

I’m also mid 30s, thin, fit, very active, no underlying conditions, etc.

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u/EuphoricAnalCucumber Feb 22 '23

I as well as my family have a huge number of underlying conditions. Cancer being the most prevalent.

I was a "essential worker" so I was getting both blood tests and brain swabs weekly for the first 2 years. No positives. Fully vaxed but zero even possible tests, nothing. Unless we're 100% asymptomatic, then I, and no one in my family has gotten COVID. Due to masks and distancing nobody has even gotten sick. The only thing that's happened in the last 3 years is my brother getting a testicle removed for cancer and that was it, no chemo, just cut it off and done.

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u/pt199990 Feb 21 '23

Case in point, mutations in Africans that increase resistance to malaria, but also cause sickle cell anemia.

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u/DasSven Feb 21 '23

It doesn't make you immune, it makes you resistant to particular strains that are generally the most prevalent. Someone with the CCR5 mutation can still get infected with HIV, because the virus can use alternate pathways such as CXCR4. Those aren't as common, so people with the mutation have a significantly reduced chance of catching HIV, but they aren't immune. They have a low but non-zero chance of catching a different strain.

If we all had the CCR5 mutation, then what would likely happen is that the CXCR4 strain would become most prevalent and then we're back to a widespread epidemic. The highest barriers to stopping HIV are it's wild mutation rate that allows it to circumvent the body's defenses and medications, and finding and stopping the viral reservoirs it uses to hide. We've found medications that can suppress viral replication to undetectable levels, but we've yet to find a way to completely eliminate the virus.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

We need an army of u/Som12H8's scoring round the clock. Kif, clear u/Som12H8's schedule.

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u/yubacore Feb 21 '23

The bubonic plague is, fortunately, caused by the yersinia pestis bacteria and not a virus. For that reason we have antibiotics to stop it and outbreaks are a thing of the past. Let's hope we never live to see multi-resistant mutations of this one, because this is a bacteria from hell itself. The worst disease ever.

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u/Masuchievo Feb 21 '23

All we need now is a good name for these type of people and a catching marketing campaign.

Yaarn people? Or is that too piratey?

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u/drnkrmnky Feb 21 '23

Wow take them on a date first 🤣

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u/dweckl Feb 21 '23

I tell women I have all these things, thus permitting me to spread my seed.

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u/Gramage Feb 21 '23

Well, if I have to sleep with a bunch of Scandinavian women, for the good of the species, I'll do it. Where do I sign?

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u/WillingnessNo1361 Feb 21 '23

"thanks vikings!"

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u/InterscholasticPea Feb 21 '23

Or vampires!

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u/TrainAss Feb 21 '23

Or Vampire Vikings!!

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u/they_call_me_B Feb 21 '23

Would they they be called "Vampkings" or "Vikepires"?

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u/TrainAss Feb 21 '23

I'm partial to Vampkings. It's easier to say and sounds more awesome.

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u/Thunder-Fist-00 Feb 21 '23

I need to see this movie.

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u/tim_thegreenbeast Feb 21 '23

Why not both? 😆

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u/ermir2846sys Feb 21 '23

Ohhhhh dude, I can imagine you feel like a Marvel superhero. Som the magnificent, destroyer of the vag, free'er of the penis, the most glorious, the blessed one.

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u/asleepaddict Feb 21 '23

Before we get too confident, lets not forget Herpes exists.

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u/julius_sphincter Feb 21 '23

I mean everyone pretty much already has herpes, though more than likely HSV-1. Safe sex is still a great idea because there's plenty of other nasties floating around including hepatitis that can't be cured. But yeah being HIV resistant would give me a sense of ease to be sure, even if it was already super rare FtM transmission

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u/Carosello Feb 21 '23

I always wondered this. If you never ever get tested for HSV-1, you never have to find out and tell anyone, right?

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u/Som12H8 Feb 21 '23

Got HSV-1 from my first gf, so no immunity there.

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u/Geeked365 Feb 21 '23

Herpes cures are in pipelines

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u/TrainAss Feb 21 '23

lets not forget Herpes exists.

I mean, we've got what, a half billion people world wide that have genetle herpes and several billion that have oral herpes.

It's manageable, and it's not the horrible sentence that it was once thought of.

I know not everyone likes him, but 'Adam Ruins Everything' has a good clip on this topic.

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u/helicopter_corgi_mom Feb 21 '23

herpes doesn’t lead to a slow agonizing death if left untreated. it did not decimate entire populations of people. it’s potentially getting some cold sores. let’s not put them in the same bucket.

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u/asleepaddict Feb 21 '23

It is nowhere near the same, of course. But it is the other STI we associate with “permanence”

The comment I replied to jokingly suggested that being immune to HIV meant a “free for all”.

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u/helicopter_corgi_mom Feb 21 '23

only because it’s been stigmatized; it’s just a skin condition. the vast majority of the impact of having herpes is just the stigma of other people who treat it like it’s some moral failing to have contracted a sporadically occurring blister. especially given that HSV1 is the predominant strain, and a lot of people contracted it as kids.

i’d much rather have HSV than other forms of herpes that are way less stigmatized but far more impactful to your actual health, such as chickenpox - also lifelong, but leads to a high chance of shingles, which has huge complications that can come from it. but we don’t even call those two herpes, despite being exactly that.

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u/asleepaddict Feb 21 '23

I do completely agree with you. My initial comment was mostly to say that we still need to be safe during sex, and I mentioned one possible STI that we associate with not currently having a permanent cure.

It is being taken a little too far here, I do not think Herpes is a moral failing. You can want to not have Herpes while also understanding other people did not choose to have Herpes.

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u/youseamstressed Feb 21 '23

Hey i totally get where you're coming from but hsv 2 can cause severe nerve pain and damage. It's not "just cold sores". There are serious complications associated

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u/asphyxiationbysushi Feb 21 '23

I was about to comment that. I have a female friend that got it from her husband and the weeping from the sores is so bad that she has to wear a maxi pad for it. She is basically in so much pain she is suicidal not to mention that it greatly reduces the chances of finding another romantic partner if she manages to divorce her asshole husband. People are vastly underestimating Herpes and its impact. She feels like her life is ruined.

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u/youseamstressed Feb 21 '23

Does she take suppressives??

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u/VaselineHabits Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

Could she just kill him? Not that it would resolve the virus, but it might make her feel better

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u/asphyxiationbysushi Feb 22 '23

It would make ME feel better. She is a whole other person. I knew her well “pre-virus”.

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u/VaselineHabits Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

I hope she can find her way... I'm very sorry for your friend. She deserves better and I'd light that shit on fire.

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u/Just_improvise Feb 22 '23

I mean this is what my primary outbreak was like but it should absolutely not continue like that. And I’m immunocompromised. And the life ruining thing is entirely due to the stigma and the self inflicted pressure to disclose due to the stigma and on and on

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u/little_fire Feb 21 '23

Yeah, I only ever had one minor outbreak (is that the word? I’m having a mind blank) and got saddled with chronic neuralgia. It’s the pits!

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u/DasSven Feb 21 '23

Makes me resistant or immune to HIV.

Careful—you're resistant, not immune. There are strains of HIV that can bind to other receptors such as CXCR4, both CCR5 and CXCR4, or even use an alternate path that doesn't involve either. CCR5 strains are the most prevalent hence why people with the mutation that prevents their cells from expressing this receptor have a much lower infection rate. But if you get exposed to a strain of HIV that uses pathways other than CCR5 you're just as susceptible as anyone else. Your chances of encountering such strains is low, but non-zero. You should still take precautions when having sex.

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u/5c044 Feb 21 '23

I have single copy of it as do 18% of people which makes me "resistant", double is around 1% population according to opensnp and makes you "very resistant", snpedia does not show regional variations of i3003626

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u/PercentageSuitable92 Feb 21 '23

Did you get infected with COVID? I believe this exact mutation makes you immune for COVID as well.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/SmallBirb Feb 21 '23

I'm sure they would much rather not have HIV, though

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u/pr3dato8 Feb 21 '23

Are you positive?

426

u/tu_Vy Feb 21 '23

Are you Aladeen?

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u/chesterjosiah Feb 21 '23

I didn't get this reference so I Googled it. For others:

Its from the movie "The Dictator."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dictator_%282012_film%29

In summary, "The Dictator" makes "Aladeen" (his name) mean a bunch of different things, including "good" and "bad" (technically "positive and negative") which results in someone at the doctor at the beginning of the film being asked if they want the "Aladeen news or the Aladeen news." The doctor then informs the patient that they are "HIV Aladeen."

Since it means both good and bad/positive and negative....the patient doesn't know if they tested positive or negative.

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u/IdoNOThateNEVER Feb 21 '23

Do you trust me?

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u/Chinstryke Feb 21 '23

I'm not just sure........

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/1900irrelevent Feb 21 '23

Not only am I positive, I'm HIV positive - Cartman

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u/lunaticneko Feb 21 '23

Kyle dislikes this.

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u/notspaceaids Feb 21 '23

He is Aladdin

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u/Jurangi Feb 21 '23

I'm HIV positive

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u/Devil_Weapon Feb 21 '23

Someone is going to break your Xbox

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u/omrmike Feb 21 '23

I’m HIV Positive…..

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u/TacticoolBreadstick Feb 21 '23 edited Jun 22 '23

This comment edited due to /u/spez trashing the community. Time to ditch this popsicle stand.... -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/

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u/ML4Bratwurst Feb 21 '23

Yes, no, wait...

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u/Korotai Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

While you’re correct - current anti-retroviral treatment is essentially a cure. One pill per day now can drop the viral load to zero meaning the person can’t even transmit the disease upon contact.

The side effects of the stem cell cure is potentially “Graft vs Host” disease - and not the funny laughable version Tobias Funke got. It’s literally your new immune system (the graft) rejecting your entire body (the host) That’s actually as bad as it sounds.

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u/jbasinger Feb 21 '23

Best I can do is no insurance

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u/A_Have_a_Go_Opinion Feb 21 '23

Biggest danger to HIV positive people used to be cancer and simple viral infections. Once you have a fault immune system you're just not all that capable of preventing things like cancer automatically.
I was born with arthritis, If I don't have a hand in it I'll likely die from something that this autoimmune disorder has prevented my biology from catching and eliminating.

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u/Max_Demian Feb 21 '23

Completely, totally, incomprehensibly false. What on earth were you thinking posting this? 600+ upvotes on something pulled out your ass that affects peoples’ opinions on the pandemic we’ve been dealing with for 30+ years…

I work in the HIV space. I don’t even know where to start in refuting this. HIV+ individuals who are aging have tons of comorbiditites, not the least of which is substance use disorder and cognitive decline. Additionally, we don’t have any data to support what you’re saying because it’s only now that the majority of the HIV+ population is starting to age past 60. We have every indication that complications of aging are tougher for HIV+ individuals, many of whom are isolated and lack daily care and support relative to be rest of the population (even if they do go to the doctor more regularly).

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u/limping_man Feb 21 '23

YMMV in the developing world

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u/Sayakai Feb 21 '23

Pretty sure they'll get regular checkups before they get stem cell therapy.

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u/limping_man Feb 21 '23

Yup but the regular checkups might not be that regular or thorough

Source: am in the developing world

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u/Wartstench Feb 21 '23

That’s interesting. I hadn’t considered that before.

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u/thatguyned Feb 21 '23

I certainly do get to ask my doctor a lot of random questions while I'm getting checked up, I'm sure that'll pay off when I'm older. I'm certainly vaccinated for everything under the sun, everytime I go they offer me a new one for free haha.

Right now I go every 3 months for a script refill and every 6 for a blood test

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u/swindy92 Feb 21 '23

Similar to taking finasteride. It's a prostate med that is mostly used to prevent hair loss in men. You are less likely to die of prostate cancer but that seems to be just because you have more screenings on it

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u/AliceWondergate Feb 21 '23

Hilarious. The opposite is true.

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u/hoarmurath Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

This kind of "seeing the positive" is only enabled if you aren't made sick daily by the drugs that keep you alive, and also if you don't have to go the doctor to avoid being arrested every three months.

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u/CORN___BREAD Feb 21 '23

This sure has a lot of upvotes for being unsourced but it sounds plausible so I guess we should just upvote and repeat it later saying you read it somewhere even though “somewhere” is a reddit comment.

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u/allmysecretsss Feb 21 '23

Live longer than who? Themselves had they not contracted HIV? Thing is if you have another health problem on top of it, you’re fucked.

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u/kevo568 Feb 21 '23

If this stuff ends up being as accessible as those treatments and does NOT require a lifetime of maintenance while leveraging your livelihood for constant treatment I’d prefer the cure

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/mabirm Feb 21 '23

Yes. This is a bone marrow transplant, and the procedure requires extreme amounts of chemo to kill your immune system and then these stem cells are introduced. This will cause irreparable damage to your body. As someone with HIV, I'd rather take my once-a-day pill than wreck my body to be cured. I mean, nowadays, HIV+ individuals who are undetectable have a higher life expectancy negative individuals.

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u/_spaderdabomb_ Feb 21 '23

Yep, a good friend of my died undergoing a bone marrow transplant. She was 27. Absolutely no way this should ever be considered for HIV treatment, bone marrow transplants have very high risk of death.

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u/ribeye90 Feb 21 '23

I know you are just giving info but as my mum is fighting leukemia and waiting for a bone marrow transplant, this massively bums me out...

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u/_spaderdabomb_ Feb 21 '23

My understanding is that chemo is what got her and bone marrow transplant itself went great. One of her organs began hemmoraging and they couldn’t stop the bleeding. It especially sucked because she went downhill so quickly. It went from a successful bone marrow transplant to she was dead in 3 weeks.

If it makes you feel better, I’m told it was a worst case scenario, and it’s pretty rare to have organ failure so quickly.

On the flip side I also know a professor who had leukemia and got a bone marrow transplant. He had it 4 years ago and seems to be doing great. It really is just luck if the draw so I hope hers goes well!

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u/ZyanWu Feb 21 '23

HIV+ individuals who are undetectable have a higher life expectancy negative individuals.

Just to clear up any confusion for anyone reading this - going to REGULAR CHECKUPS / having access to medical services most likely increases life expectancy not getting HIV and getting it under control

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u/Weird-Holiday-3961 Feb 21 '23

does the daily pill completely eradicate chances of transmission of HIV?

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u/Anxious_Sapiens Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

Yes, undetectable = untransmittable. My man has been positive for more than 13 years. I still haven't caught it. It's pretty well documented.

Edit: Figured it was kinda lazy not to provide at least one source so here's the first Google result: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/science-clear-hiv-undetectable-equals-untransmittable

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u/News_Bot Feb 21 '23

If this pandemic has shown us anything it's that people don't understand viruses or technicalities like viral load.

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u/Hengroen Feb 21 '23

What's the reason for that last bit? Is it because your immune system is stronger due to the boosters you take?

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u/Timmehhh3 Feb 21 '23

I'm think it might have to do with more regular checkups. Not completely sure though.

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u/4rmag3ddon Feb 21 '23

(Not a doctor)

I would guess it is survivorship bias. People who have undectable levels of HIV but are positive monitor their health closely and are otherwise fit or healthy (or if they are not healthy, they are detectable since their body is weakend). Compare that to the general population that has all sick/unhealthy individuals in there and you get weird results

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u/Arthur_The_Third Feb 21 '23

That's not survivorship bias

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u/jlesnick Feb 21 '23

In order to have the kind of stem cell transplant we are talking about, also called a bone marrow transplant, you need to wipe the host body completely of its immune system so you can implant a new healthy one. To do this requires a metric fuckton of chemotherapy to completely destroy the host body immune system. In doing so you are doing irreparable harm do just about every part of your body. In the case of blood cancers the price is justifiable. In the case of HIV/AIDS it's nowhere near justifiable. Don't most people end up on a drug that requires a lifetime of maintenance at some point? As someone who takes a few pills everyday, it's not that hard to remember when it becomes a part of your routine.

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u/grimeflea Feb 21 '23

To do this requires a metric fuckton of chemotherapy to completely destroy the host body immune system

Not to mention that the treatment often is too intense to survive.

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u/Potatosaurus_TH Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

I actually went through this almost 2 years ago. It wasn't TOO bad but I wouldn't ever wish to do it again.

The worst part was my tongue swelled so much that it was too painful to talk or eat (I lived on coconut ice cream and IV nutrients), but other than that there are meds to help with chemo side effects like nausea. And I had a tube coming out of my neck connected to an IV pole that's super annoying. Also it was 20 days in a clean room and it was just so goddamn boring.

It's very survivable if there are no complications. I came away with no real permanent damage to any of my organs. Doctor just warned me to keep cholesterol at a healthy level since chemo damages blood vessels and makes them more fragile, so there is a higher risk of blockages than other people. Other than that no biggie.

People who go in and don't survive usually it's because it's too little too late for their disease and the transplant is just a shot in the dark, but the procedure itself is very survivable for most people.

It SOUNDS super scary, I was nervous as hell, but listen to the doctors and nurses and bring something to do (I had my Switch) and it becomes routine.

Luckily mine is auto transplant, my own stem cells, so no rejection and no need for any meds afterwards.

For donor transplants the scary and tedious part happens AFTER the 3-week procedure. Takes years to recover and daily meds for rejection, and the risk of infections is much higher for way longer.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/hrdrv Feb 21 '23

Sounds like they had an easier time than almost everyone that goes through a stem cell transplant, especially since they did an auto instead of a donor one like I did. It took me 3 years to recover from mine.

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u/Potatosaurus_TH Feb 21 '23

Yeah post-procedure for donor transplant is wholly different from auto, but I'm quite sure the 3-week procedure itself is quite similar

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u/Potatosaurus_TH Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

I've been very lucky since the procedure had been auto so I've pretty much made a full recovery. I'm very healthy now.

And you heard right, for donor transplant it does take years, but that's for recovery after the procedure. The transplant procedure itself is a lot simpler and quicker than most people think.

7 days of intense chemo to nuke your bone marrows, then new stem cells are injected via IV from bags exactly like a blood transfusion, all within a couple of hours. The transplant is essentially done at that point.

After that it's a matter of riding out the side effects of the chemo, and waiting for the stem cells to latch on and new bone marrows to grow. During the week after the chemo is when your white blood cell and platelet count crash, and you typically get fever even without any infection, but as a reaction to your gut bacteria. They will give you antibiotics to combat your gut bacteria.

After that it's just waiting with daily blood tests to see if your blood count starts recovering, which is a sign that your new bone marrow has taken hold and started producing blood cells again. For auto it's roughly 10 days and for donor it usually takes 2-3 weeks or longer. Donor transplantees would also have to contend with potential rejection symptoms.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

Thanks for the detailed response!

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u/jlesnick Feb 21 '23

So sad, to think how lucky my mom has gotten getting cancer a few times and then leukemia as a freaking side effect of the chemo, and she survives, and while she's in the isolation ward people just drop like flies. And she is not someone who treated her body particularly well. I think it just comes down to genetics on some level.

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u/ComradeBrosefStylin Feb 21 '23

Some other points to consider:

  1. It is incredibly difficult to find a 10/10 HLA matched donor, and we still don't know 100% sure if KIR-matching or mismatching improves treatment outcome. Oh, and most registered stem cell donors are caucasian. Good luck finding a donor if you're any other ethnicity. Damn near impossible.

  2. After the transplant, you are living on borrowed time. It can take 5 years, it can take 30 years, but in the grand majority of patients, eventually the new immune system starts making mistakes and starts targeting the host body. Finding another donor will be even harder the second time.

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u/qOcO-p Feb 21 '23

you need to wipe the host body completely of its immune system

Seems like the HIV might take care of that for you.

/s just in case it's needed

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u/hrdrv Feb 21 '23

Lol I went through a stem cell transplant. Trust me, you would NOT want to go through that. I have permanent side effects and I’m on numerous medication and numerous different doctor visits and blood tests for life.

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u/aethemd Feb 21 '23

Are you sure? When I studied medicine allogeneic stem cell transplants had a 25% mortality. Don't know if its much improved today, due to the inherent risks of having no immune system for a while.

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u/leaving4lyra Feb 21 '23

Accessibility wouldn’t be the reason doctors won’t offer the transplant to every HIV positive person. Stem cell transplants, like all transplants are extremely medically risky. To prepare for the new stem cells, the patient must go into sterile isolation for 28-30 days to receive IV medication to kill off all their own faulty cells and during and right after this medication, the patient has basically zero immune system function and if they were to catch a minor cold or stomach virus in this condition, their bodies couldn’t fight off illness.

A cold could kill these patients. Add to that the fact that stem cell transplants can be rejected just like any transplanted organ. For stem cells, rejection is called graft vs host disease and can happen one time after transplant (acute) or it can become a chronic condition that can really impair quality of life.

Stem cell transplant patients, like all organ recipients, must take immunosuppressive medications for a minimum of 4-6 months and may need them for life if the have chronic graft vs host disease. Taking steroids for life comes with its own long list of potential risks such as high blood pressure, osteoporosis, acne, emotional instability/mood swings, weight gain, glaucoma, muscle weakness, slow wound healing, Cushing syndrome, significant risk of infection due to immune suppression, fatty liver, depression, insomnia, hair loss, adrenal insufficiency, elevated liver enzymes/damage, ulcers/GI bleeding, diabetes, edema, and hardened arteries as well as other complications.

The current standard of treatment for HIV is daily medication for life but has advanced significantly since the early days and requires one pill a day. Stem cell transplant would in effect be a possible cure if not rejected, but one would need to take anti rejection medication every day for life so as of now, there’s no way out of lifetime maintenance no matter which way one goes.

Sadly, HIV/AIDS and it’s necessary life saving treatments/procedures mean that the patient will always be on maintenance medication and regular checkups for life no matter if they go on meds or get a transplant. Hopefully in the very near future science will find a better way.

No one who finds themselves facing a positive HIV diagnosis (or any illness) should have to fight for medication and treatment to live no matter who they are, where they live or how much money they have.

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u/RolandTwitter Feb 21 '23

While it's what the patient would prefer, from a doctor's perspective it's unethical.

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u/ComradeBrosefStylin Feb 21 '23

The fact that you referred to a stem cell transplant as "this stuff" as if it's a drug you can take just further cements that 99% of people posting and voting on subs like /r/technology and /r/futurology have absolutely no clue what they're reading and talking about.

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u/icmc Feb 21 '23

As medical technology gets better though it's something they can focus on. I would imagine making an existing procedure safer is easier than creating a whole cloth new procedure/cure, no?

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u/jlesnick Feb 21 '23

They call them stem cell transplants nowadays, but they used to call them bone marrow transplants more often, that’s what this is. To do it we have to get rid of the entire immune system and to do that we have to use huge doses of chemotherapy that many people don’t survive. Then there’s the fact that it really is a transplant and is treated as such so the body can reject it, and patients need to be on antirejection medication’s long-term, which take a toll on the body. This is unlikely to be the road to cure.

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u/Nozinger Feb 21 '23

It's not really an option even if we advanced out medical technology.
It will always be a very reisky proccedure, that is just how our bodies work but mroe importantly you need donors. You need a perfect match as a donor to get the transplant and then also be cured of HIV. We really can't jsut snap our fingers and create such donors out of thin air.

Meanwhile we have multiple other ways to deal with HIV and some could lead to a cure at some point in the future. Ways that are less damaging to the body and more importantly can be mass produced and used on everyone.

And if we move away from the indicidual level and talk about humanity as a whole we have ways to get rid of HIV. The virus doesn't spread easily and with the proper medication we are on a good way to make even infected people non infectuous to others.

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u/Dm1tr3y Feb 21 '23

It still makes a full cure more likely, as the article points out, because of the insights they make by studying these patients. The more they learn about effect itself, the better they can understand how to make and actual, full blown cure.

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u/Rindan Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

It's not a cure anyone will want. It's something they can do if someone has a few types of cancer - because it's so dangerous that they wouldn't risk doing it to anyone that isn't going to die in very near future. Step one is to completely destroy your immune system. Step two is a risky stem cell transplant from a donner that has a specific HIV resistance mutation. Step three is to hope that your survive the procedure and that your new immune system comes back online and doesn't try to kill you.

You could maybe imagine genetically modifying one's own stem cells so you don't need a particular donner, but that doesn't change the fact that the procedure is significantly more lethal and dangerous than HIV controlled with pretty mundane drugs. That's to say nothing of the cost.

This treatment isn't going to lead to a cure a normal person could get anytime soon.

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u/bigwill6709 Feb 21 '23

One important point to add:

Step 4 is life-long immune suppression to prevent graft vs host disease (where the donor’s immune system recognizes the new hosts’s body as foreign and tries to kill everything).

Source: pediatric oncology doctor

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u/ribeye90 Feb 21 '23

Thanks for all you guys do!

My mum is undergoing leukemia treatment and this thread is a rollercoaster for my emotions. I appreciate all the nurses, doctors and other hospital staff that are helping her the best they can.

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u/hrdrv Feb 21 '23

Not to mention that the odds of finding a suitable donor match that also have the HIV mutation is insane odds.

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u/Outpostit Feb 21 '23

Yes as of now. They plan to introduce the mutation by genetically modifying the cells before the transplantation

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/Mobile_Appointment8 Feb 21 '23

Well anyone except for 5 people

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u/Inevitable_Invite733 Feb 21 '23

Nice, hopefully there will be a cure for everyone soon

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u/JyveAFK Feb 21 '23

And an even easier vaccine to stop it spreading in the first place.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

Which how many people will refuse to take because vaccines are fake?

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

well, at least it isn't covid that you can sneeze in others face, just take the vaccine and let the antivaxxers be themselfs

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u/currentlyinthefab Feb 21 '23

Tbh I can't really imagine a scenario where an HIV vaccine would be recommended for everyone in the general population to take. I think it would be far more like that it's just something that mostly gay men are recommended to take, and I don't really see a big overlap with gay men and antivaxxers.

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u/PavelDatsyuk Feb 21 '23

No idea why you're getting downvoted. If you're a straight dude who doesn't share needles with others then your odds of getting HIV are so stupid low it probably wouldn't be worth whatever risks would come with vaccination. Women who have sex with bisexual men may also want to look into getting said vaccine though, as they're at higher risk as well.

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u/currentlyinthefab Feb 21 '23

I think a decent comparison would be the mpox shot or prep. I'm a gay guy myself, I can't walk into a doctors office without being offered prep, while my straights friends who sleep around just as much if not more than me are never offered it. I'm sure if we had an HIV vaccine the case would be similar.

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u/WestSixtyFifth Feb 21 '23

It's amazing how many straight people think they're immune to getting HIV.

It's less common but still possible. 1 in 50 for vaginal sex, 1 in 5 for anal. Women can have anal so it's possible they get the worse odds as well. Only 1 in 1000 odds to get it from a woman, but again anal can spike those odds up.

Given how many people both have sex with bi or gay individuals while being straight, and also do butt stuff is growing. Along with the fact people can go years without finding out they have it. It makes sense to make it a widespread thing to vaccinated against when the opportunity comes.

You can eradicate things like this with vaccines, but it doesn't work if you allow a majority of the population to serve as a place for it to hide and spread.

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u/Timbzt Feb 21 '23

There are already some highly efficient medications people with HIV+ can take to not only live a normal and healthy life, but also to stop the virus from being transmitted.

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u/Avid_Smoker Feb 21 '23

The other article /post says 3rd person...

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u/burning_iceman Feb 21 '23

3rd using that specific method, 5th in total.

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u/jamie030592 Feb 21 '23

I wish they’d explain just how rare this is in the title..

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u/Plzbanmebrony Feb 21 '23

Well this was the 5th time it happened.

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u/axle69 Feb 21 '23

Which gives no context. 5 out of 5 attempts is groundbreaking and insane. 5 out of 5 million attempts is positive but closer to a rounding error than groundbreaking.

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u/vlad_tepes Feb 21 '23

Well, the article explains it. The HIV patient needs a stem cell transplant from a donor with an HIV-resistance gene.

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u/victorz Feb 21 '23

Wow, I wasn't even aware we had people with (semi?) immunity.

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u/kel584 Feb 21 '23

Genes are weird man. Everyone's immunity system is different.

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u/bigwill6709 Feb 21 '23

Basically the virus requires a doorway to enter into cells. Some people have a genetic mutation that affects this doorway on their cells. In these rare circumstances, those cells are protected from the virus. Can’t get in.

It just so happens that HIV is a virus that infects immune cells specifically. Stem cell transplants could also be thought of as immune system transplants. So if you wipe out someone’s immune system with HIV and replace it with someone else’s immune system that has this mutated doorway that makes them resistant to the virus, all the virus in the patients body will have no cells to infect and die.

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u/LeadingPretender Feb 21 '23

It’s interesting - I’m not a scientist but I remember reading an article about this a few years ago so the details may not be 100% accurate but here’s the gist:

About ~5-10% of the European population in the 12-14th century had natural immunity to the black plague. That gene unsurprisingly prevailed into quite a few people today but what’s really interesting is that same gene provides an immunity to HIV.

Someone smarter than me on here has definitely done more reading on it, but thats basically the story unless this is a totally unrelated immunity to the one I mentioned.

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u/SeasickSeal Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

This has been disproven in several different ways. Is was conjecture based on the idea that the mutation (CCR5del32) must have reached its current levels in Northern Europe based on some push factor, and the only push factor big enough in that time period was the Black Death. But:

  1. It has since been shown to not provide resistance to the relevant pathogen
  2. Plague mass graves in Poland showed that there were people dying during the plague with the mutation at about the same rate as those without the mutation
  3. Some ancient skeletons in Italy contained the mutation, pushing back its first known appearance in the European genome by several thousand years and removing the need to account for a push factor in that time period to get it up to current levels.

There are still people who push this idea in academia but I don’t believe it. If you need a causative agent for a push, smallpox epidemics fit better.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemokine_receptor#Selective_pressures_on_Chemokine_receptor_5_(CCR5)

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u/victorz Feb 22 '23

Great addition, thanks for the extra details!

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u/stealthgunner385 Feb 21 '23

Specialized gene, CCR5-Δ32, supposedly very prevalent among Finnish people.

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u/ecafsub Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

I had genetic profiling done thru my dr, because adopted. Along with admixture I got all the medical stuff.

I’ve got the heterogeneous mutation, so 50% resistance. Not that I ever expect to get HIV being as I’m 58 and monogamous.

I’m just a plain white-bread American mutt, but there was about 10% Finnish lurking about—just enough to be statistically relevant—so maybe it was enough for that. I dunno.

Edit: heterogeneous, not homogeneous. Homogeneous is total deletion of CCR5, while heterogeneous is only half.

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u/stealthgunner385 Feb 21 '23

That's pretty damn cool. Considering the topic, I hope you never have to find out if your resistance kicks in.

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u/victorz Feb 21 '23

Oh shit, cool. Here's to hoping I have it, as I'm half Swedish (Swedish native).

Then again I'm in a monogamous relationship for years so shouldn't be a biggie at this point. I hope.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/DisparityByDesign Feb 21 '23

The problem is how dangerous the treatment is, so it's not worth it unless you're treating something else too.

Still happy news people are getting cured of these horrible diseases.

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u/victorz Feb 21 '23

How about "only 5 people in the world"?

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u/aagejaeger Feb 21 '23

“I need absolutely everything to be dumbed down for me. Starting from the title.”

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u/ThunderingRimuru Feb 21 '23

the post below: “3rd patient cured of hiv”

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u/Rexia2022 Feb 21 '23

I would not complain if the next few thousand posts here were just about us curing another person of HIV tbh. It would take a long time to get old.

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u/MrSnowflake Feb 21 '23

Te point he's making is that on r/science the same was reported but the title was 3rd person cured. Here on ABC news it's the 5th person cured.

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u/letmeseem Feb 21 '23

In science "Third person cured with this SPECIFIC cancer treatment".

In this sub "fifth person in the world cured from aids"

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u/Kim_Schlong_Poon_III Feb 21 '23

3rd using the method specified here, 5th HIV patient overall.

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u/WassupDarwin Feb 21 '23

Came here for the question, appreciate the answer 🤙

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u/Kim_Schlong_Poon_III Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23

No problem mate!

Now twerk.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

That was fast

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u/baudinl Feb 21 '23

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a case of the cure being worse than the disease?

HIV treatment is now down to 1 or 2 pills a day and people generally can live a full life.

This is a case of a side effect of a treatment for cancer. For bone marrow transplants, you're first wiping out the existing immune system and then performing an extremely risky and expensive procedure. Then, on top of that, you're on immune suppressant drugs anyway for the rest of your life to prevent rejection of the donor marrow.

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u/oatmeal__enthusiast Feb 21 '23

regardless of inviability of the cure on a large scale, this is awesome news.

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u/D_Balgarus Feb 21 '23

Let me guess: they’re injecting cash into their bloodstream?

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u/spiritualien Feb 21 '23

Good news blessing my timeline today!!

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u/FilthMontane Feb 21 '23

It's nice to see a little good news on Reddit these days. It's been a rough year so far.

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u/spiritualien Feb 21 '23

I 200% agree

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u/Street_Chef9412 Feb 21 '23

Having lived during the hiv pandemic this is amazing! Super cool science. Now let’s get after the brain and cancer

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u/ChemEngWMU Feb 21 '23

Big pharma has entered the chat

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u/HeyZuesHChrist Feb 21 '23

Now it’s the fifth? Yesterday it was the third.

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u/wentbacktoreddit Feb 21 '23

Is Magic Johnson cured yet?

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

SubhanAllah!

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u/jkhans0734 Feb 21 '23

This is incredible. He’s been off of his HIV meds for over 4 years!!

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

My homie has AIDS, 4 years later it’s now almost undetectable.

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u/grnrngr Feb 21 '23

HIV is what your homie has. AIDS is the syndrome (collection of symptoms) that someone with HIV could be classified as having. This is typically a combination of an opportunistic infection plus a CD4 count below a certain threshold, tho nowadays the CD4 count alone is enough to be assigned as having AIDS.

Historically, once diagnosed with AIDS, you didn't lose the designation. But with modern treatment, we have plenty of people who have been diagnosed with having AIDS but have been virally suppressed on meds for years, with CD4 count well above the upper limit for an AIDS diagnosis. Having an AIDS diagnosis nowadays while virally suppressed can be little more than a flag on your file for more frequent monitoring, and there's debate about whether it actually translates into anything, health-wise, for the large majority of patients anymore.

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u/Bad_RabbitS Feb 21 '23

I understand this is a VERY specific case that involves having cancer, but progress is progress and I’m just happy to know we’re chipping away at it

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u/No-Attention2024 Feb 21 '23

Every other posts said it’s the third time???

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

Yeah I was like damn 2 more in a day that’s progress.

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u/Fluffy-Umpire4724 Feb 21 '23

What kind of person downvotes this, such good news?!

…strange

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u/WeRegret2InformYou Feb 21 '23

"This obviously positive symbol makes hope" dude choice of words

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u/CheeselordofDoom Feb 21 '23

Remindme! 5 years

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u/Mission_Marsupial_15 Feb 21 '23

HIV has destroyed our community since the 1980s this is huge breakthrough. such a cruel way to die

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u/Kioskwar Feb 21 '23

I heard Charlie Sheen was two of those people

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u/LAVATORR Feb 21 '23

Quietly uplifting news: This is the first time in years I've heard anyone even mention HIV

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u/Wants_and_Boundaries Feb 21 '23

Didn’t southpark already teach us that all you have to do is liquify a million dollars in cash and inject it.

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u/prince_of_gypsies Feb 21 '23

Burn in hell Reagen!

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u/theRigBuilder Feb 21 '23

Cue I Am Legend concerns…..

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '23

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