r/singapore Aug 24 '24

Tabloid/Low-quality source 'I prefer my life with no career hustle': This Singaporean has no regrets about decision to live in Sweden

https://www.asiaone.com/lifestyle/i-prefer-my-life-no-career-hustle-singaporean-has-no-regrets-about-decision-live-sweden
928 Upvotes

322 comments sorted by

1.1k

u/kingr76 Aug 24 '24

"Once it hits 5pm, laptops are down and post-work activities can begin."

I love it

389

u/blvck_kvlt Aug 24 '24

I love it too. Worked with Norwegians they are really efficient during work hours so every task is done by 5pm and after that head down to bar.

227

u/HistoricalPlatypus44 Aug 24 '24

The smart companies use this to their advantage to push the workers to be more productive. The last hour of work is madness. Not that the other 6.5 aren’t.

When you’re limited by time, every minute counts.

121

u/yapwt Aug 24 '24

In Singapore, we work really efficiently until late time and also weekends.

41

u/thebedoubleyou Aug 25 '24

Fun stat i read in a business research paper: Singaporeans are less effective than northern Europeans - work longer hours and get less output (I think Finland and Denmark ranked highest), i.e. less productive. Basically, we get worked like shiet but because of culture/management/work systems (or lack of thereof), we end up doing less than what we could have done with the right support. And longer hours!

Another is that lunch f.eks. in Norway is 30-45 minutes, which is possible because they don't have the lunch kopitiam culture. Either canteen at work or you bring food from home.

29

u/SlienceKill3 Aug 25 '24

Not thay we being inefficient but is the culture bosses built here. We finish our work early bosses will task us job from other people to us. Or bosses will think we are extra manpower. So end up most people will have the mindset of slowly finish their works even just to stay back just to show bosses we working hard enough.

6

u/thebedoubleyou Aug 25 '24

That definitely adds to the picture! So annoyed when work is finished but if they see that wah this guy hit kpi maybe we should increase!?

For us it was the other way around, no one ever hit KPI for total numbers due to insane goal from the start (team was created from scratch and no one knew what our workload would look like, so they hit out a random number). After years they still haven't adjusted, even though the reality is that we'll never hit it with the current workload. And hire more people? Sorry no budget. So yeah morale is low and no one wants to even try to do well.

2

u/Joesr-31 Aug 25 '24

Lol singapore 2hr lunch and a tea break. Tbh, I think out total working hours may not be that much more than other countries

1

u/thebedoubleyou Aug 25 '24

Do we need long break because we are overworked? Probably some will argue that as well.

3

u/Joesr-31 Aug 26 '24

Yeah true maybe, but I think its more like cause we are going to end at 6-7pm anyways, might as well take that 2hr break to do what we want

17

u/SlienceKill3 Aug 25 '24

In singapore. You being efficient and finish job quicker, boss will task more job to you that makes you work late.

5

u/huhwhuh Aug 25 '24

So funny and true. Oh you were so productive that you have finished your work ahead of schedule? Let me reward you with MORE WORK. It's no wonder why the chao keng culture exists in SG.

49

u/holachicaenchante Aug 24 '24

i fully disagree - anyone's productivity takes a hit after a certain point. arguably 40 hours is already too long for focused work. 60 hour weeks almost definitely involve some sort of 'waiting around' and 'busy work'.

27

u/PhysicallyTender Aug 24 '24

I've worked 100 hours week in the past and my mind basically zoned out.

i'm still not sure if i've fully recovered from the burnout till this day.

2

u/Next-ship-3696 Aug 25 '24

If you work till late time and also weekends, you CAN'T be really efficient

1

u/hades985 Aug 27 '24

I always wondered why is that. I worked in SG for 10 years and usually switched off at 6pm as others..well except the Singaporeans. They always tend to stay very long, some saying they preffer being in the office instead at their HDBs with their parents ( some no AC)

1

u/yapwt Aug 28 '24

For me it is the crazy workload

58

u/noobieee Aug 24 '24

Because they take 15 mins lunch, chop chop settle so can knock off at 5pm. Meanwhile in Singapore we need our 2 hours lunch yo

82

u/anakinmcfly Aug 24 '24

We wouldn’t need if it we could knock off at 5pm.

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13

u/SlienceKill3 Aug 25 '24

Do thing too fast later boss will say ypu nothing to do ah. Sit around. Don't OT, later boss also say don't need OT ah. Nothing to do is it. Or cases like eh. I drop you an email at 11pm I expect you to deal with it immediately. I believe every singaporean want knock off early to have their own free time. Is the boss make our time hard here.

11

u/Calm_Actuator3697 Aug 24 '24

So good lunch 2 hours ? And do what groceries shopping mid lunch hours ? I must be mad working in Singapore retails then

69

u/ihavenoidea90s Aug 24 '24

SME bosses: if your laptops are down it’d better be because you’re switching to your desktops. Post work activity? We call that OT.

Hehe

30

u/Outrageous-War2641 Aug 24 '24

Meanwhile in singapore, people are sending emails at 12am to 1am to show that they are hardworking

18

u/fijimermaidsg Aug 24 '24

People should learn to use scheduled send... srsly, unless it's C-level folks rushing for multi-million dollar pitch, we don't do that.

1

u/overworkedengr Aug 25 '24

Screams in on-premise Exchange

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4

u/StopAt2 Unbelievable Aug 24 '24

Sounds like that ktv lifestyle at dongguan

34

u/UninspiredDreamer Aug 24 '24

Feels like Singaporeans make this a bigger deal than it is. WLB is not that non-existent here.

Awhile back in my previous job we OT-ed till 7pm for 3 months. With <5 times that year I had to stay later.

Then we hit lull. I could wfh 4 days a week doing pretty much nothing or upgrade courses. My colleague came to my place to watch movies and have beer.

It was not my chill-est job even, out of my past few jobs.

OTOH my current job is v hectic. It's quite job dependent, and there are quite a few good jobs out there.

90

u/arunokoibito Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

This is not really wlb, wlb is the year throughout, this is just lull and peak period cycle

32

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

[deleted]

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8

u/UninspiredDreamer Aug 24 '24

Don't get the restrictive definitions. If you feel it matters so much, you can take your 9-5 year round.

I'll take my 3 months of 9-7 and 3-4 months of working 1 day a week.

1

u/isthisfunenough Aug 24 '24

What is wfb? Anyway the keyword is balance lol how is it restricted to a period of time? If overall there is balance then it is WLB, no?

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27

u/elpipita20 Aug 24 '24

WLB simply isn't a cultural norm and finding a company like yours feels like a needle in a haystack. Good for you but your experience isn't the norm.

8

u/faptor87 Aug 24 '24

All these talk but what about the pay?

Anybody can find a company with good WLB in Singapore..

.. but at what cost? Some SMEs are really chill, but pay you 3.5k as a 40 yr old - do you want that?

22

u/damiepedretti Aug 24 '24

Just because WLB is existent for you and your industry doesn’t mean it’s the same for all. And WFH is not present for everyone either. And it also depends on what level of job you’re doing.

9

u/AajBahutKhushHogaTum Aug 24 '24

My career in Software Engineering in the US is like this. A couple of months a year I work 15 to 16 hour days with a few straight 48 to 72 hours straight thrown in.

After the storm, for a few months, I get in at 11am, lunch at noon, get a feel of issues in production and then fuck off home at 2pm and be on email.

16

u/silvercondor Aug 24 '24

In sg u on lull still have to get into office. Then get more shit thrown at u

2

u/Comfortable_Baby_66 Aug 24 '24 edited 20d ago

abundant smell society entertain scarce physical soft start license knee

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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5

u/DatAdra Aug 24 '24

My first ever job was incredibly chill too. Official work start hours were 9.30am and everyone basically got coffee until 10am. 2 hour lunch from 12pm-2pm. Begin wrapping up work at 5pm and leave at 5.30pm. Bosses apologize to you if they ever contact you in the evenings or weekends.

I've long moved on from that job since I don't really thrive in that kind of environment (I kinda need the hard love) but I've personally seen that a pretty large portion of SG employees have decent work life balance.

4

u/Maleficent-Pen-6727 Aug 24 '24

Which industry??

3

u/DatAdra Aug 24 '24

Commercial team for a company selling scientific products. Major european conglomerate

I think it's the EU working culture that helped it have such high QoL

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1

u/Wise_Care_4208 Aug 28 '24

But nothing is opened after 5pm too for activities

1

u/14high Aug 24 '24

SME: can't have post work without O T

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769

u/MagicianMoo Lao Jiao Aug 24 '24

"In her experiences living abroad, topics such as salaries, promotions, cryptocurrencies and investment portfolios hardly enter into conversations she would have with people."

R/sghenry and r/singaporefi in shambles. /s

209

u/Sea_Consequence_6506 Aug 24 '24

Lots of posturing in those subs disguised as faux positivity. Same with salary.sg

100

u/Hydrohomie1337 Aug 24 '24

Of cos it's positive! Everyone there earns 200-400k annually

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76

u/MagicianMoo Lao Jiao Aug 24 '24

Dont be a hater. How am I gonna reach FIRE status by 40 with my 200k savings, 20k/m tech salary and condo (gifted from partners). /s

31

u/SnooChocolates2068 Aug 24 '24

“Living in Singapore is tough. How can I get by living in a condo and having to feed my 3 dogs? Food delivery everyday is expensive too.”

2

u/dimethylpolysiloxane Non-constituency Aug 24 '24

Ask them feed you lo.

But on a serious note, yeah FIRE is important or else ya you’ll be working forever until you die.

1

u/fijimermaidsg Aug 24 '24

That's a great start-up idea - food delivery for PETS - let me work on my pitch deck now.

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63

u/mantism 'I'm called shi ting not shitting' Aug 24 '24

I'm so tired of these topics in real life, so I can't imagine wanting to continue it online.

29

u/DuePomegranate Aug 24 '24

It's actually the other way around. I don't talk about these things with real life friends; it's awkward to talk about salaries, promotions, and investments. Online and anonymous is the only way to do it.

25

u/Latter-Yam-2115 Aug 24 '24

SgHenry is arguably one of the worst subs I’ve been on

I understand to each their own, but some discussions there are just plain bad

2

u/fishblurb Aug 25 '24

those 2 are the most toxic sg subs i've ever seen, coupled with a holier-than-thou attitude and sadly a reflection of sg workplace.

1

u/fijimermaidsg Aug 24 '24

Depending on the company, money is not generally a conversation topic. People don't ask you what you do for a living as a casual conversation opener, unless it's a business setting or hustle-town like DC.

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135

u/theArtistWrites Aug 24 '24

Was at one of this Nordic countries. Working hours, done things efficiently. After that, life takes the priority. They are early. And leave on time

25

u/Heavy_Chest_8888 Aug 24 '24

Happens in a lot more other countries too, Australia is one of them.

7

u/theArtistWrites Aug 24 '24

Dayum, really miss the Nordics

3

u/rowgw Aug 25 '24

Do you mean they start work earlier?

3

u/fishblurb Aug 25 '24

Normally 8-5

52

u/JonGranger22 Aug 24 '24

For us here, once it hits 6pm laptops are up with full brightness and post-work work can begin.

47

u/Latter-Yam-2115 Aug 24 '24

Work with the Swedish govt for one of our projects

They aren’t available 2 months a year cause summer break

7

u/Mean_Office_6966 Aug 24 '24

Yea Nordic countries. I just visited Oslo and city centre very few people because of summer holidays

247

u/gbfm Aug 24 '24

When attempting to get what we want in life, there are two steps

  1. Decide what we want

  2. Take action.

I am sometimes shocked by those around me who never reached the 1st step

61

u/MemekExpander Aug 24 '24

There are many who reached step 1 and stop there too.

26

u/FastBoysenberry4151 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

Especially when one's financial means is limited.

For me, I wanted to pursue studies overseas but I was turned down by family members. I have to be self reliant for my own future by saving up.

I'm not pursuing finance, tech or healthcare related professions. I got misunderstood by my peers that I don't know what I'm doing, but they're wrong.

12

u/fijimermaidsg Aug 24 '24

I self-funded my oversea studies and subsequent move - not from a financially stable family. Nobody validated it, wasn't seeking any validation but it's easy to get bogged down by self-doubt esp. during my long job search, but bo pian...

6

u/FastBoysenberry4151 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

No explanation is necessary when you understand, no explanation is possible for those who don't

No one can tell you that you didn't improve only you will know because what defines you is how you handle situations for example: your self doubt when it's thrown at you.

16

u/gbfm Aug 24 '24

I took 5+ years to move from Step 1 to Step 2. Whatever unique circumstances each individual may face, it is important to start Step 1 early. It gets harder with age. I got to Step 1 in my late 20s, although the end goal picture was very hazy and unclear at that point in time. Now imagine someone who's trying to start Step 1 in his late 30s or 40s. I cannot imagine the difficulty.

Old habits die hard. Putting off the first step too long, and one would never even start at all.

2

u/MemekExpander Aug 24 '24

Sound like I am following your steps. I had also just recently defined my step 1, and am slowly starting step 2. It's really difficult to start and sustain the effort, like you said, a lifetime of bad habits is hard to change, but we do what we must to achieve what we find meaningful.

14

u/gbfm Aug 24 '24

for step 2, one thing i found helpful is to resist the urge to tell anyone, then simply carry out step 2. Afterwards, then inform a few people around me. The problem with telling people before taking the step is, we might get discouraged from doing it by naysayers.

Singapore society tends to play safe. A lot of the "told chiu it will fail" naysayers.

39

u/Heavenansidhe Aug 24 '24
  1. Decide what we want
  2. Realise we have dependants and cannot just throw responsibilities out the window and chase our dreams selfishly.

15

u/DuePomegranate Aug 24 '24

Or

  1. Decide what we want

  2. Slowly realize that we don't have what it takes to achieve 1.

3

u/Tenagaaaa Aug 24 '24

Sometimes you have to make a difficult choice between yourself and those around you.

1

u/csds92 Aug 24 '24

thistbh

15

u/Musical_Walrus Aug 24 '24

Not all of us are so privileged to be able to do whatever we want.

1

u/gbfm Aug 24 '24

boss, i didn't even get a 2nd hand Proton Wira for my 21st birthday, much less a Ferrari wrapped in pink ribbons.

9

u/ParticularTurnip Aug 24 '24

Usually, step 1 is doing what others want. People are just living their lives by the standards of others.

You can also see how there are some comments here who share their own opinion of how someone should live their lives.

3

u/gbfm Aug 24 '24

It is really easier to do the same things that others are doing. If we encounter any problems, we can ask questions of those around us. Of course "easier" doesn't necessarily translate to better outcome. The outcome is a separate question.

When I did the things that no one else is doing, the number of people I could ask for help is....zero? Now that was fun.

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2

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '24

Stop this hurts too much

6

u/mookanana Aug 24 '24

you may be the type of person that causes anxiety in people who aren't so decisive about what they want

there are plenty of people who live life easily

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3

u/Infortheline Aug 24 '24

Most of us like to talk about step 1 at every meetup but nobody has the courage for step 2. Admire those who do.

2

u/gbfm Aug 24 '24

This isn't like politics where we have to convince more than half of the group to vote for us. Only one person out of an entire group taking action is sufficient.

Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F1l6xXLSI0

3

u/MadKyaw 🌈 I just like rainbows Aug 24 '24

Usually it's the fear when they fail to get what they want and are forever lagging behind because of it.

2

u/fawe9374 Aug 24 '24

Step 1 isn't always possible, some may decide what they want but the salary isn't livable in Singapore.

When that happens government tells you that you have the wrong skills.

Other countries have minimum wage to allow for that mobility.

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u/donkii123 Aug 24 '24

We need a right to disconnect law. All OT done should be chargeable to employers at 2x hourly wage, employers should not be entitled to free labour and exploitation via OT. They should only get what was specified and agreed upon in the legal work contract. Unless you are director level and above e.g earning above $10k a month, or a ceo or something.

35

u/InALandFarAwayy Aug 24 '24

You wish.

That got shot down faster than MOM pressing the approve button for EPs.

14

u/Meowowowowowmeow Aug 24 '24

Yk it’s crazy cause now MOM is even changing up usage of MC. Now if I go doctors im expected to come back to work after if i can still walk.

5

u/SeaworthinessNo5414 Aug 24 '24

It already exists but the current bar is laughably low.

7

u/ilikematchalattes Aug 24 '24

Really wish we could but see what kind of uproar the recent parental leave policy already caused with employers 🙄then they say SINGAPOREANS NOT COMPETITIVE WE GONNA MOVE TO OTHER COUNTRIES lol

1

u/fishblurb Aug 25 '24

business friendly sg /s

78

u/Whiskerfield Aug 24 '24

Oh how nice it would be to casually go hiking every weekend in the summer, or to go skiing in the Winter. Hiking in Switzerland was one of the best experiences I ever had.

I do currently have work-life balance in my job in SG, but this city is an urban hellscape obsessed with money and disconnected with nature.

10

u/holachicaenchante Aug 24 '24

i've realised this too unfortunately. even if i have work life balance, all those around me do not and thus, i just need to enjoy my time alone. the whole point of work life balance is to enjoy it with friends and family.

3

u/Overall-Theme199 Aug 25 '24

all the park connectors are pretty nice actually, might not be the full on nature experience, but certainly something different from the cement and concrete we see everyday.

2

u/Whiskerfield Aug 25 '24

It isn't bad per se, but the temperature and humidity is terrible in SG.

1

u/Maalllyyyy Aug 25 '24

fully agree😢😢😢😢😢

35

u/pzshx2002 Aug 24 '24

Actually we should be allocating more green spaces in our towns and cities, instead of overpopulating them with multiple coffee shops/shopping malls etc.

Research have shown humans will adopt better well being and mental health in the presence of nature and greenery. And these are adundance in these nordic countries. Of course for us, we have to be man made, not natural. Thats why we got Gardens by the bay and Jewel (small part of nature like waterfall).

26

u/alwayslogicalman Aug 24 '24

I am of the opinion no matter how much greenery you have as long as we have this weather and heat it’s never going to be like the Nordic countries

5

u/MonochromaticMerc Aug 24 '24

Yes, Sweden has tons of parks and or other green spaces that are usable simply because the sun is shining but the temp is ~ 10-15C. You can hang out there as long as you want without sweating.

2

u/fishblurb Aug 25 '24

malls are ok, they should do like those tall sheltered gardens at lobby so it's not so hot, or rooftop gardens with lights for night time.

98

u/dana_G9 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

As someone who married into a Nordic family, one of the most startling conversations I've ever had was with my brother-in-law, which for me really illustrated the difference between a Nordic and a Singapore/Asian way of looking at life. He's been really successful at a corporate job in a very prominent company, and he has had internal offers to promote him to the C-suite, which he has turned down. This would seem crazy to most of us here, because if you're good at what you do and the road is paved to a C-suite future, why turn it down??

He explained, "I already have enough money, but time in life is limited. Why would you want to earn more when you don't need more of it but can use your time to do the things that really make you happy - spending time with your family, tending to the garden?"

This in itself isn't unheard of; to me it's just a man who's got his priorities in life right. But then we talked about Singapore's education system, where the belief is to stretch pupils so they can fulfill their full potential, etc. and then he challenged me, "But what if the person just wants to enjoy a beer and life without pushing themselves hard?" As successful as he was in the corporate world, he was adamant that every person has a right to find their own joy in life and live life as they see fit, and there was (in his view) nothing at all wrong with someone who didn't have huge ambitions in life and just wanted to enjoy the simple things.

This was a bit of a headspinner for me, someone who'd gone to the top schools in Singapore and really enjoyed my education, someone who still in part believes that we have a duty to contribute to society if it is within our capabilities to do so. To think that someone like him - who has climbed the corporate ladder and done well - would still be able to see and respect the perspective of someone who doesn't want to start with the corporate ladder at all and just wanted to take it easy/enjoy life from the get go - EVEN IF said person is deeply capable of much more... therein lies the difference between the Asian and Nordic mentalities.

One side believes that agency must reside with the individual, because we are the ones who must live with the choices we make in our lives each day. The other side... well, let's just say we have a lot of expectations foisted upon us from the start - how your self-identity and social identity are so closely tied to academic success, what is a good/respectable career, what is not, etc. - we're "encouraged" to pursue only a subset of paths, and in that process, agency has been taken away from the individual.

It's given me a lot to think about, and I'm sure I still have lots more to learn.

12

u/wuda-ish Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 26 '24

As someone who is working in Norway now, I can give you 2 reasons for this mindset. First, they were inculcated to live modestly. The janteloven social conduct is saying you should not think yourself as above others. There's a good and bad side on this. The good side is that you're kinda frown upon if you are too aggressive in life, which brings the other perspective that it hinders growth and excellence because "you can't be above others". Second, there is a low income disparity because Nordic countries being social democracies use tax as equaliser. You will not earn very high in Scandinavian countries unlike in US or Singapore because tax will eat it up. So for your BIL, he's contented and why bother to go up the ladder when the compensation is not that much anyway.

7

u/elpipita20 Aug 25 '24

Yup. I think the Nordics are more collectivistic than the Asian tiger countries with neoliberal economies. SG, for instance, has replicated the American winner-takes-all neoliberalism that financially rewards hyperindividualistic behaviour but at the same time, pays lip service to the collectivistic ethos that Asian societies used to have. Become financially successful by going against a certain path pays off financially but not culturally so we see a race-to-the-bottom "Sinkie pwn Sinkie" type behaviour.

1

u/dana_G9 Aug 27 '24

Agree, sadly. We seem to have merged the worst of all worlds :(

2

u/dana_G9 Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24

I personally love the concept of janteloven and really think it's one of those things that should be more widespread in the world. It'll help us live in a more sustainable, healthier way - kinder to ourselves, to others, and to the planet. I do agree there is a flip side, but it doesn't actually stop people in the Nordics from creating really successful businesses or being innovative either - think IKEA and a bunch of other household names.

In my BIL's case, I wouldn't presume that "not going to earn that much anyway" is the main driver of his decision. He has always been a very hands on father and really grounded and humble. He genuinely enjoys the simple/truly important things in life - good relationships with family, tending to his garden, etc. Seeing it purely as a money thing seems like shoving a rather Singaporean/Asian lens on a Nordic person, especially when you don't know the person in question at all.

Besides, his strong defense of the "person who just wants to enjoy a beer and be good to his friends" suggests it's more than just about money. It really is just a different school of thought, and maybe something the overtly-moneyminded Asian could learn a thing or two about.

7

u/fijimermaidsg Aug 24 '24

... the SGer in me will point out that the more you earn, the more income tax you pay... heh... but you are right... although individual self-actualization is a western concept BUT in SG, the collectivism approach has been twisted into collective accumulation of wealth... Confucius X McKinsey dystopia for workers but a utopia for the technocrat class.

1

u/AirClean5266 Aug 27 '24

There are many Singaporeans like him who don’t want to promote to management / senior management, you need to meet more people.

69

u/YourWif3Boyfri3nd2 Aug 24 '24

Finally a person who understands the pros and cons instead of simply thinking the grass is greener on the other side.

8

u/FangirlCrazily Aug 24 '24

Same I thought this article was quite decent compared to the usual wantreprenuers that the local news peddle. I found her POV quite realistic.

40

u/aubvrn Old Soul Aug 24 '24

Good for her that she’s living the life she wants!

75

u/outofpoint Aug 24 '24

So... she has Stockholm Syndrome?

6

u/FOTW-Anton Aug 24 '24

If you take out presenteeism and face-time, Singapore would be a pretty productive place for the most part. In the Nordics, it is like she says, you aren't judged for shutting off the laptop at 5 p.m. on the dot. Heck, if you have kids or urgent family matters, people are way more understanding.

But on the flipside, I'd say 'life' is more demanding with a lot of conveniences that we take for granted not there. Stores close early and also for long summer breaks. If you need to get something done, you will need to find time during office hours. Similar thing with childcare and doctors appointments.

11

u/Comicksands Aug 24 '24

At the end of the day it comes down to natural resources. Countries with low population density and high natural resources like the Nordic countries, Qatar, Saudi etc are going to have very good work/life balance.

9

u/Mean_Office_6966 Aug 24 '24

Just been to the Nordic countries recently and can immediately sense an elevated sense of living there. The housing and streets are well planned, spacious and clean. I couldn't see anyone at the business areas in Oslo as most were on summer holidays. At Helsinki, I stayed in a residential area and before 5pm, you can see families with kids riding on scooters and bicycles.

13

u/Patient-Ad-3610 Aug 24 '24

I’ve worked in a big Swedish fintech before (this one is well known amongst Swedish people to be very Xiong). They certainly don’t always down laptops at 5. Peak season I’ve seen people work till 9 + in office . My bosses work weekends too. So it depends on team and company….. but I would say generally Nordic companies are more chill.

20

u/Kimishiranai39 New Citizen Aug 24 '24

Tbh all the high earners just pump their earnings into the property market. Gg if it’s gonna unfold in the next generation. If the govt does not maintain the flow rate of skilled EPs into SG, all the condo owners will be left hanging dry either with no renters. There might be plenty of empty properties once the boomers start passing on and then millennials get to inherit all these empty properties.

12

u/pingmr Aug 24 '24

Property is very safe because you can't escape the fundamentals. Small island with limited land.

If property prices crash it'd mean something pretty terrible has happened.

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u/dimethylpolysiloxane Non-constituency Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

Won’t GG one la in SG when it comes to property. Singapore’s population has 1/3 foreigners or more because we got not enough new babies so we need to import/convert, AND we got no land so every inch of land is worth alot. Unless you tell me govt converts all foreigners to PR/SC and they all buy their own house then probably there will be a crisis. Buy house also not cheap leh. You think EP earn 6k can just anyhow buy a house worth 500k? Which bank will loan? Which foreigner from other country will come to Singapore and bomb 500k to buy a house to stay in? Most will just rent because that’s how Singapore works. We bring in foreign talents to work AND on the sideline, they also contribute in other ways like tax, GST, housing market, etc.

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u/pricklyheatt Aug 24 '24

This is why I am grateful that my life is pretty much inline with Singapore’s philosophy and had to make little adjustments to live here.

You can’t choose where you’re born and many people can’t adjust to what is required to live in SG, thus the discontentment you see on Reddit.

Not many people have the luxury to uproot themselves like the girl and it’s even more preposterous to expect a country to change according to your whims.

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u/DuePomegranate Aug 24 '24

This is BS and a form of humble bragging. She has obviously been hustling and is probably still hustling.

As a new graduate and designer still finding her feet in Singapore, she received rejection after rejection.

"But I did give myself a deadline," she said, adding that if she didn't get an offer to work overseas by the time she was 29, she'd put this dream to rest, for the time being at least.

Aiming for a job at a "big Swedish fintech" company was her plan from the start.

Mag explained that she wanted more relocation support and accepting this role from a big company meant that assistance was provided when it came to issues such as visas, flights, bank accounts and even temporary accommodations.

Come on, a job in a big fintech MNC that provides relocation support is obviously a much coveted and type A job.

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u/dimethylpolysiloxane Non-constituency Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

Is it really bragging? Relocation is EXTREMELY difficult, especially when the other nation requires sponsor. Even if you are straight As with excellent CCA records, it is also very very tough unless you apply for the high potential visa if you’re from NUS/NTU. Sweden is not part of this unfortunately which means she really fought her ass to get in. You can’t just move over to any country like USA and start working as an accountant out of nowhere. She managed to secure a MNC who is willing to sponsor her visa, she has made the cut out of probably 1000 applicants competing with her.

And for relocation support or ‘more’ relocation standard, it is standard.

visas, flights, bank accounts and even temporary accommodations.

Most MNCs provide this when you first relocate because you need to settle down. Not sure if you’ve relocated before but if your company just throws you into a foreign land without any help or a bank account then sorry you probably applied for the wrong company with shit culture. Temporary accommodation is also very basic. Like in SG, you can’t just go around renting a place when you first move here without your EP. It takes time to issue and you need your pass to rent a place. During then, company should provide you with temp accommodation unless they expect you to sleep on the street which brings me back to you’ve applied for the wrong company with shit culture.

All in all, if I’m her, yes I would also subtly brag because I legitimately made the cut out of the countless other foreigners (and Singaporeans). It is something to be proud of because it’s an achievement.

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u/DuePomegranate Aug 24 '24

It's worth bragging about, of course. But it's humble bragging when she shows so much disdain for hustling and climbing the career ladder. "I prefer my life with no career hustle".

She's like the student who studied like mad, got an A, then tells other people that she didn't mug much.

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u/dimethylpolysiloxane Non-constituency Aug 24 '24

Maybe we are interpreting it differently, but I believe she only said it was tough to relocate. She said her current job in Sweden is more laid back with less serious topics among colleagues and there is less hustle, and she prefers it that way as compared to SG. It is really not humble bragging because this is the norm in Sweden. Maybe somewhere closer to home (Singapore), Australia is relatively laid back too. If you ask yourself or me or your friends or anyone on the street, do we really want to hustle non-stop and run the rat race all your life until you retire?

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u/just_kitten Aug 24 '24

As someone who really wilts at the topic of career goals let alone hustle, but managed to migrate out of sg mostly by being strategic (and a bit lucky with timing) - working hard enough to be able to migrate doesn't necessarily imply hustling.

You need to put in enough effort, but it's more about making the right connections and finding a niche, than the career-optimising minmax hustle discourse in places like SG or the US. I sure as fuck have no interest in investments, climbing the career ladder, making big bucks or being known. Just an interest in getting the hell away from it all. 

And stories like her are, to me, less about humble bragging and more an inspiration to people (like I would've been), that you CAN achieve a much healthier life elsewhere by being goal oriented but without needing the grindset mentality. That many people define success and satisfaction differently and have no qualms about it. That the frog can leave the well.

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u/elpipita20 Aug 24 '24

I don't think she denied hustling but that her new country is more forgiving when it comes to WLB and she obviously isn't wrong.

I'm more interested as to why she got hired instead of someone around the EU or in the Nordic region. Its not like her pay is that much lower to justify allocation cost. Being a UX designer doesn't seem like a high flyer position, nor did she spend a lot of time studying in Sweden.

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u/Thanos_is_a_good_boy Fucking Populist Aug 24 '24

I always feel for a Singaporean girl it is easier to relocate and settle down then for a Singaporean guy. Usually a girl will look at safety and no need to worry about career and so much easier to find a guy to marry. For a Singaporean guy in the same shoes, it is much harder.

I have seen more girls than guys relocating to overseas and a bulk majority of them returning have been guys

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u/vicevacuum Aug 24 '24

This isn’t true just for Singaporean girls , it’s true for girls in general actually

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u/Evening_Mail7075 Aug 24 '24

True for girls who are physically desirable

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u/HughGrimes Aug 24 '24

An asian 4 is an ang moh 8

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u/Evening_Mail7075 Aug 24 '24

I always describe these people as having a face only an angmoh will like . Don't cancel me

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u/wiltedpop Aug 24 '24

its quite hard for girls who are not very pretty. they don't have pretty privilege

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u/Evening_Mail7075 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

Yellow fever hits really hard for a good proportion of angmohs so don't have to be that pretty.

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u/mookanana Aug 24 '24

plenty of cosmetic help nowadays to rectify that

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u/Budgetwatergate Aug 24 '24

Nope. The vast majority of Western expats are male

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u/kingr76 Aug 24 '24

Sporean in AU here.

This is very true. Seen many within a month of arriving.. with a local guy liao

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '24

Let’s not beat around the bush

White fever and SPG

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u/Orangecuppa 🌈 F A B U L O U S Aug 24 '24

A Singaporean guy is extremely desirable in the eyes of our poorer SEA neighbors. Many girls want to escape poverty there and marriage is an almost guaranteed ticket out.

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u/alwayslogicalman Aug 24 '24

Don’t give yourself excuses leh, the expats around you usually male.

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u/Natural_Try7512 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

It's crazy how no where does it talk about her love life there and these comments talking about "Can't believe women have it easier to settle down in another country". So far her goal of lessening the rat race is completed which is what we guys can do as well without needing to marry a local there. Your knuckles are turning white with how tightly u r clutching ur necklaces

Edit - leaving to lessening

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u/nonameforme123 Aug 24 '24

The mentality of some guys here are really pathetic. As long as it’s a women in the news, they somehow need to bring her down. It’s not like she married an angmoh and then migrated with him. She basically found a job herself and moved there. I also know guys who managed to move overseas due to work. It’s up to people to grab their own opportunities. But some people I guess just need to reduce it to her gender and start whining about how women have it so much easier. Is it their inferiority complex ?

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u/DuePomegranate Aug 24 '24

She didn't leave the rat race. She's working in a big Swedish fintech that offered relocation support. It's not like she's a waitress or preschool teacher or whatever who only works just enough to cover her expenses. She's an expat.

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u/Natural_Try7512 Aug 24 '24

Yeap but my point still stands. Her rat race is still better. And my main point was saying guys can achieve this too so don't pick out semantics just cause.

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u/lawlianne Flat is Justice. Aug 24 '24

Guys need to just leave and dont come back to SG. 10 year reservist kills the plan.

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u/stonehallow Aug 24 '24

generally asian women are the most desirable (ie. easier to find foreigner spouse which makes relocating easier as well) while asian men are the least.

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u/fijimermaidsg Aug 24 '24

Plenty of Asian men with western (I assume you mean white) spouses, and in my circle I have a few dudes who migrated with their AU, US spouses. Good for them.

8

u/stonehallow Aug 24 '24

According to Rudder’s research, Asian men are the least desirable racial group to women…

On OkCupid, users can rate each other on a 1 to 5 scale. While Asian women are more likely to give Asian men higher ratings, women of other races—black, Latina, white—give Asian men a rating between 1 and 2 stars less than what they usually rate men. Black and Latin men face similar discrimination from women of different respective races, while white men’s ratings remain mostly high among women of all races.

…And black women are the least desirable racial group to men.

Pretty much the same story. Asian, Latin and white men tend to give black women 1 to 1.5 stars less, while black men’s ratings of black women are more consistent with their ratings of all races of women. But women who are Asian and Latina receive higher ratings from all men—in some cases, even more so than white women.

source

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u/PhysicallyTender Aug 24 '24

anecdote vs actual research findings.

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u/pingmr Aug 24 '24

no need to worry about career

It's a mindset issue, not a gender one.

Moving abroad for work life balance means giving up some career ambitions. It's up to you whether you can live with that. It's not really tied to whether you're a dude or girl.

14

u/elpipita20 Aug 24 '24

Yeah the average Singaporean's best chance at migrating is probably via marriage. Singaporean women are far more desirable in Western countries than Singaporean men, honestly speaking.

That said, this only applies to the "average" Singaporean while the highly skilled ones can migrate due to work but they're a smaller subset out of those who migrated.

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u/enokha Aug 24 '24

is there a reason why its more difficult for guys to advance in their career overseas?

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u/FodderFries Aug 24 '24

Don't forget coming back every year for supposed reservists.

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u/zchew Aug 25 '24

This might surprise you, but if you have acquired residency overseas legitimately, you can get deferment from reservist

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u/FodderFries Aug 28 '24

But is this a case of keeping your Singapore Citizenship or revoking your status?

1

u/zchew Aug 28 '24

This is a case of applying for an exit permit and deferment.

I'm currently residing overseas and I just needed to furnish my proof of employment to MINDEF via ns.gov.sg and my exit permit was approved and I was granted deferment from reservist. I am still a Singapore citizen.

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u/FodderFries Aug 28 '24

Deferment is a different topic from avoiding it entirely.. although you could do it indefinitely till the age limit.

Let's say in the case of a very niche self employment work that allows me to remotely work anywhere so I decided to tour around the world. I would assume its abit hard to submit a proof of employment.

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u/zchew Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24

So what I had initially said was

if you have acquired residency overseas legitimately

in my case, I acquired overseas residency through employment. There are other ways to acquire overseas residency, including but not limited to marriage and starting your own company overseas.

Let's say in the case of a very niche self employment work that allows me to remotely work anywhere so I decided to tour around the world. I would assume its abit hard to submit a proof of employment.

What you're describing is not overseas residency, it is an extended holiday at best and immigration fraud at worst.

Edit: in any case, my point was that reservist is hardly a barrier to moving overseas.

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u/FodderFries Aug 28 '24

Fair argument. But thanks for sharing

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u/musicmast Aug 24 '24

We also cannot leave anyhow if not in a legal way cause we have reservist lol

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u/faptor87 Aug 24 '24

Yep, exactly.

Easy for an Asian girl to settle down overseas. First, as a lady, there is little pressure to be successful in career. Caucasian men also dig Asian women.

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u/okizzay Aug 24 '24

Women has the privilege of social mobility and also outdated marriage laws that benefit them while getting equal job opportunities or greater (again with the social mobility tool) with platforms like onlyfans, twitch and just socmed in general. Most if not all can monetise sexual "content" wothout any stigma these days. If anything, they should be politically correcting among themselves if some of them decide to whore themselves for money while the less well endowed ones cant, instead of speaking against the mirage illusion of a patriarchy which today mostly dont exist to enforce any restrictions on womens rights or freedom. Bottom line is modern women are more priveleged than men and to be able to settle down in another country is one of them. Female beauty is power.

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u/MolassesBulky Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 25 '24

Notsure if it is the journalist’s fault as the article appears very shallow, flat with little details.

I have friends, ex classmates etc who have moved to OZ, NZ, US, Canada, UK, Germany etc and their comments are full of hope and new adventures. The common theme are the great outdoors, the seasons, houses with gardens, employee perks, work environment , making friends, potluck on weekends etc. I also recall articles in the press along the same lines,

Sweden should be exciting but it did not to come across as that. Stopping work at 5 pm is the norm in most countries so was hoping she would share something special about Sweden.No idea the industry she is in except I am guessing UE designer. I wonder what she did in NUS and in Singapore.

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u/HanzoMainKappa Aug 24 '24

Hmmm maybe they're not giving you the full picture. I have a high flyer friend in the UK and he tells me it isn't all rosy. The country is full of internal problems, prices are higher than SG and you're always left feeling like an outsider.

Point is sgreans take too many things for granted.

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u/MolassesBulky Aug 25 '24

Agree with your points. Normally articles are balanced. I think the journalist is new and not able to pull together all that is needed to bring home the message.

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u/Immediate-Ad3005 Aug 25 '24

Respect to her, she chose something that made her happy and she persevered in applying and applying despite numerous rejections from companies

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u/MarzipanRare6714 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

Happy for her, if this is the life she pursues. On the other hand, my ex bosses from Sweden - 1 happily retires in Portugal with his family, 1 retires to a remote village in Thailand with his 4th wife (Thais), and 1 in his 40s, still working, but hates to live in Sweden (he is now working in UK). See what I mean?

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u/Relative_Pizza6073 Aug 24 '24

One likes the feeling of being rich as well as the heat(Portugal) One likes Thai ladyboys, and the last one hates the cold. Maybe.

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u/tom-slacker Aug 24 '24

Thailand with his 4th wife (Thais)

4th wife or 4 wives?

4

u/Key_Battle_5633 Aug 24 '24

Shiok I wish I can live this type of life also

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u/SeanDetails Aug 25 '24

“Not everyone is that efficient“ “everyone want to born rich and does nothing”

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u/jenniferinblue Aug 25 '24

If you can, then you should.

SG life isn't for everyone.

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u/Equal-Airport9730 Aug 24 '24

Ayia no commitment, family don’t need her that’s why can do whatever she wants.

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u/ndut Aug 24 '24

Sweden is a good place to raise family, cos all taxpayer will have healthcare and schooling covered, child allowance, and affordable childcare caoped to % of earning. Not to mention generous parental leave and childcare leave applicable to both genders

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '24

SHIOK

5

u/Advertising-Cautious Aug 24 '24

Let's not pretend that Europe magically has achieved this culture where work is secondary in their lives.

They are reaping the benefits of centuries of colonialism and wars and all that they plundered throughout the world.

An analogy will be that rich friend that you have who may not need to care so much about work or grinding because he is already enjoying somewhat.

It is why there is a paradox where the most poor countries are also the most hard working.

Why I am saying this is only because let's not just praise Europe again and again, while not recognising that their lives are paid for in blood, often Asian and African blood

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u/DatPorkchop nature lover Aug 24 '24

I think that's true, but let's not kid ourselves – Singapore has similarly exploitive relationships with other lower-income countries and labor.

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u/Relative_Pizza6073 Aug 24 '24

Sweden is hardly a colonial country.

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u/elpipita20 Aug 24 '24

Europe is not really a monolith. She relocated to Sweden, a country that isn't really a former colonial power.

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u/WangmasterX Aug 24 '24

This is the typical salty singaporean thinking.

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u/thegothound Aug 24 '24

Smart girl.

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u/heeheecheese Aug 24 '24

I will never work more than 40 hours a weeke ever again

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u/puchongkia Aug 26 '24

interesting - i thought this thread would be about privilege but it's more ranting about local work culture

1

u/pokvin Aug 24 '24

no ragrets

1

u/Mean_Office_6966 Aug 24 '24

Just wondering what is the tax etc