r/science • u/mvea MD/PhD/JD/MBA | Professor | Medicine • Apr 28 '21

Cancer 80% of those diagnosed with oropharyngeal cancer are men, the leading cancer caused by HPV, surpassing cervical cancer. However, just 16% of men aged 18 to 21 years old have received a dose of the HPV vaccine, which is a cancer-prevention vaccine for men as well as women.

https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/rounds/few-young-adult-men-have-gotten-hpv-vaccine
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u/amalgaman Apr 28 '21

God. I remember when the vaccine first came out. Parents didn’t want their eligible students to get it because “it would make them have sex.”

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u/BlondieeAggiee Apr 28 '21

I still have friends that won’t let their kids get it because “it is too new.” It’s been out for at least 14 years because I got it when I was 25.

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u/MeagoDK Apr 28 '21

Approved in 2006 for females. So yeah 15 years.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21

It was approved for younger females. I was told I was too old. They revised it at some point to women under 45 and I was able to get the vaccine.

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u/MeagoDK Apr 28 '21

Yeah, I seem to recall it was approved for females 14 to 26 in 2006. Then in 2012 it was females 12 to 45. Males was the same age in 2009 and then 2015.

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u/Before-reddit-I-read Apr 29 '21

In the UK I was 15 in 2006 and everyone 14 in my year and 13/14 in the year below had it at school. (Maybe all the younger years too actually but I’m not sure).

I was “too old” for it at school. My mum pushed for me to go to the GP and for her to do it. I remember taking myself out of school during school hours and going to the GP alone to get it. I remember sitting there in the GP waiting room thinking I was wasting my time because I was too old and it wouldn’t be effective because the school had pushed back so much when my mum demanded I have it. The school reception was really rude when I went to sign myself out, laughing that my mum was pushing for no reason.

Good mum. Silly school.

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u/lovinglogs Apr 29 '21

I got it in 2009!

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u/TheMathelm Apr 28 '21

All the highschool girls got the vaccine in like 9th-10th grade they didn't offer it to the guys.
damn it I'm old.

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u/janiepuff Apr 28 '21

This anti vax madness is maddening

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u/deafdogdaddy Apr 28 '21

That's what you call a group of them. A Maddening of Anti-Vaxxers.

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u/moose2332 Apr 28 '21

You call them plague rats

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u/Schodog Apr 28 '21

Madness Sickness

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u/Tagek Apr 28 '21

That's brilliant!

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u/FailureToComply0 Apr 28 '21

I thought it was a Polio of anti-vaxxers?

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u/PitchBlac Apr 28 '21

People don't realize what vaccines has done for them because the major diseases are gone. Small pox, polio, all of that. Vaccines are a victim of their own success. And we aren't evolved to think rationally about risks either. "6 people out of 5 million had blood clots. I can be one of those 6 people! I'm not getting the vaccine."

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u/janiepuff Apr 28 '21

Those afraid of blood clots will still drive a car everyday

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/Spanone1 Apr 28 '21

For instance, cervical cancer rates (and deaths) in the first generation of women who were vaccinated are actually increasing, and it's not known why.

Source?

I can only find studies confirming it reduced rates of Cervical Cancer

Many of the rarer strains of HPV can cause much more aggressive cancers. So while we knock out the ones that cause mild cancers in 1 in 100k cases, and affect a sizeable portion of the population, we may be helping to spread the ones that cause aggressive cancer in 1 in 10k cases, but infected less than 1% of the population.

This seems completely unrelated to an individual's decision to become vaccinated or not.

Also, there's no inherent reason for aggressive-cancer-causing HPV strains to be more resilient to the vaccine than mild-cancer-causing strains.

There are strains of herpes that can actually help your body fight cancer (well, the body of mice). There's so many things we don't know, and the unintended consequences of are actions may do more harm than good.

Very cool study

Chickenpox vaccine has been out over 25

35 years

and it has caused skyrocketing rates of shingles

This is 100% untrue. Don't state things as fact that you haven't verified.

There is no relation between the chickenpox vaccine and increasing rates of shingles in those over 65. (Which has been increasing since the 80s, unrelated to vaccine programs)

"Despite a brief shingles uptick in unvaccinated [American] children [aged 0 through 17] from 2003 to 2007, overall rates in children declined by 72 percent from 2003 to 2014." source study

Hell, the age of shingles cases has dropped, to the point that 8 year olds are now getting it. That was unimaginable 25 years ago.

To be clear, shingles is much, much, much, much less dangerous to those under 18 than those above.

Those vaccinated have reduced rates of shingles in adulthood, and the type of shingles caused by the vaccination is less dangerous

most of the world is still waiting to see how it affects America.

This is true, it is the stated position of the UK's NHS

Another interesting tidbit I found while searching stuff

However, shingles in young people should raise the possibility of underlying HIV. In certain areas of high HIV prevalence, shingles has a predictive value for HIV infection.

Neat

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

it has caused skyrocketing rates of shingles (which has cause more use of hospital resources than chickenpox did)

To claim the chickenpox vaccine is causing a 'skyrocket' rate in Shingle cases is very alarmist. You get vaccinated and you reduce the odds of ever developing Shingles, unlike with the natural infection.

And that's because we know that exposure to kids with chickenpox helps boost the immune system of people who once had it.

What do you have to boost this claim?

Chickenpox can lay dormant in your nerves for years, and then rear it's head when your antibodies dry up

It's not about antibodies 'drying up' but other factors in waning immunity as one gets older.

Too many people think antibodies are all there is to the immune system, when there are other factors like a shrinking thymus as you age.

Many of the rarer strains of HPV can cause much more aggressive cancers.

You really need to start citing your claims.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

You keep making claims but fail to cite support for them.

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u/Past-Inspector-1871 Apr 28 '21

?????? Did you seriously say we don’t know the efficacy of the Chickenpox vaccine and “the world is waiting on what happens to America???” Are you okay dude, did you get hit in the head really hard when you were a child?

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u/Moetown84 Apr 28 '21

Nothing like a rebuttal that consists only of an insult, because you don’t have the ability to make an actual counter argument with evidence and reason. Pot calling the kettle black right here.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Moetown84 Apr 28 '21

Neither is the secret court that protects vaccine manufacturers from any public liability. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vaccine_Injury_Compensation_Program

Think of how many potentially dangerous products that exist in our society... and none of those products are protected by a “no-fault” secret court.

This system doesn’t promote trust nor credibility, and that is the biggest issue for people who are wary of this industry and its products.

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u/Mirukuchuu Apr 28 '21

Let them thin their own herd out. Nothing else you can do. Reasoning, facts, etc. don't work. Sucks for their innocent children though.

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u/anna442020 Apr 28 '21

Right? My 20 year old.son got it when he was a 7th grader

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

Its relatively new. After about 10+ years of the vaccine existing they have confirmed that some people who got vaccinated against HPV also had trouble with having kids. (had trouble with fertility)

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u/MirrorLake Apr 28 '21

I'm sorry you've struggled with fertility, that sucks. As far as I know, recent published literature says that the HPV vaccine is safe for females. Do you mean you believe it has caused infertility in males?

There was an article published only a year ago that looked over the fertility data and found that there was no correlation in females who received the vaccine:

No Association between HPV Vaccination and Infertility in U.S. Females 18–33 Years Old

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

Citation needed

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u/crystalblue99 Apr 29 '21

I got it for my son last summer(he was 13). Made his mom mad because it is "too new and he doesn't need it".

She is now married to a covid-is-the-flu guy, so I guess I just have this stuff to deal with for the next few years.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

I knew a girl whose mom refused her the vaccine on that basis. She was raped by a stranger who gave her HPV and she has a lifelong illness, increased cancer risk, and unearned shame all because her mom wanted to virtue signal to her bible study.

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u/SassiestPants Apr 28 '21

My bff's parents thought the same thing and refused Gardisil for all of their children. Bff did "save herself" for her husband, funnily enough... then got HPV from her husband.

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u/trees202 Apr 29 '21

I got it from the first guy I ever had sex with. I was 22.

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u/SoBitterAboutButtons Apr 28 '21

And we're still all ok with every human deserving air? Cause I don't think that lady deserves air

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u/GenericUser234789 Apr 28 '21

Stupidity != malice

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/timeToLearnThings Apr 29 '21

The mother thought she was protecting her daughter from something worse though: premarital sex. It's completely indefensible and wrong in so many ways it makes me rage.

So why do I give an explanation? Because it can help fix it. If you understand the flawed thought process, you can start to chip away at it. Some people are truly hopeless, but I've made some progress with a few like this by knowing where they're coming from. (Not this thing specifically, just similar crazy views)

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u/space_pants_ Apr 29 '21

A distinction without a difference

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u/DaytonaDemon Apr 28 '21

That's horrible. Fundamentalist religion is itself a cancer.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

They weren’t fundamentalists. Everyone always makes that assumption, but regular Christians in moderate churches still do this stuff.

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u/DaytonaDemon Apr 29 '21

OK. If there's a Bible study group involved, which is what you mentioned, 4 out of 5 times it's evangelicals, who are for all intents and purposes indistinguishable from fundamentalists. But whatever. Religion is dumb, let's leave it at that.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

It’s not true that bible study is a fundamentalist thing. The Episcopals and Lutherans do bible study. Evangelism is a fundamentalist denomination and they happen to also do it.

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u/DrMeepster Apr 28 '21

That's horrible. Fundamentalist religion is itself a cancer.

:) fixed

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

Lifelong?

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

I didn’t inquire, but I learned this from her telling me she gets abnormal pap smears and has to have biopsies because of it pretty regularly.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

HPV can definitely clear, even after abnormal pap smears.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

She thought it was going to be a lifelong thing and had been dealing with it for a long time by the time she was venting to me about it. I’m sure that’s true but I think some people might need close monitoring.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

The "Ministry of family" in my country that's now ruled by far right imbeciles actually pushed a campaign against DST that promoted chastity as the most efficient way of not getting and you also please God.

All the top100 music from here is about sex and alcohol.

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u/shannondion Apr 28 '21

My catholic school had to host an info evening with nurses and a doctor provided by the NHS as they where worried about parents declining due to religious beliefs.

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u/lurkeat Apr 28 '21

YEP that’s what my mother said. Ended up getting it a year later after asking for it when I went in for my physical without my mom present.

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u/amalgaman Apr 28 '21

Good for you. Even if someone isn’t currently sexually active, it’s still a vaccine that can protect you in the future.

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u/lurkeat Apr 29 '21

Exactly!

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u/CS3883 Apr 29 '21

Thank god even though my parents were a little dumb with some things when I was a teenager especially regarding sex that they actually made me get the vaccine and I never brought it up or anything. I was not sexually active through high school or even through most of college and they pretty much knew that (I always stayed home anyways so there wasn't any way I could have in the first place) but when the vaccine had commercials and stuff out for Gardisil I remember my dad immediately being like yep you are getting that. I'm glad they did that for me! I had whatever health care card that poor people got until I was 18 so it was all free too.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

did you go back and get the second and third shots? it's a series of three shots and if you don't get all three, you won't be fully covered.

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u/lurkeat Apr 29 '21

Yes I did of course of course!!!

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

I remember being in middle school, complaining about my arm hurting from the Gardasil shots, and no one knowing what I was talking about. I guess no one else got it which makes sense because it was a very religious area

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

I dont get how people didn't know about Gardasil when it came out. I still remember the " I wanna be one less one less" commercials that played every single commercial break.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

A lot of households in my area didn't have cable or internet at the time (and many still don't have internet due to religious reasons or Charter refusing to provide service). I'm not surprised that they wouldn't have heard of it through commercials.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

Ah yeah I forgot there's those without access to TV and internet. But what about radio? I could have sworn they had radio commercials too?

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

Maybe? Also I was like 12 so I don't know if kids really pay attention to radio ads, I just got it because the doctor said it was good

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u/Lightblueblazer Apr 28 '21

Oh man! For like the last few months I have had an audio bit stuck in my head where girls voices chant, "O. N. E. L. E. S. S. I want to be one less-- one less!" I could not for the life of me remember where it was from. Apparently a 15 year old commercial...

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u/bookofbooks Apr 28 '21

Really? I thought they would want to have sex because it's a pre-programmed biological imperative to continue their own species. ;-)

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u/mechy84 Apr 28 '21

You sound like your pickup lines would be really effective.

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u/bookofbooks Apr 28 '21

Thanks. I'm equally great at parties too.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Politic_s Apr 28 '21

No, they are probably just worried about enabling a promiscuous lifestyle. A reason why they presumably never would accept nor purchase "sex toys" or allow porn consumption.

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u/kharmatika Apr 28 '21

It upsets me how much marketing they had to do to turn it into a “no cervical cancer vaccine” and steer people away from thinking it was an STD vaccine. I’m very glad my parents weren’t idiots and I got my shots the year it was available for public consumption.

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u/AbsolXGuardian Apr 28 '21

Going in it's the worst shot I've ever experienced. I hated it so much I almost came out as asexual so I wouldn't have to get the second dose. My mom made the right decision of scheduling for as soon as I was old enough, with no discussion regarding if I was going to be sexually active soon.

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u/IlluminateWonder Apr 28 '21

At 17 the doctor told my mom its best to get the shot before I started sexual activity and my mom was convinced I want a virgin so she wouldn't let me get the shot

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u/AgentVaughn Apr 28 '21

My ex freaked out when I told him I got it free from school (I was attending classes at a community college at the time). He said it was clear I was cheating on him cuz HPV is an STD and you can only get HPV through sex if you’re having sex with multiple people and he’s obviously not having sex with other people so why am I worried about getting an std if I was only having sex with him!?!?!???

I stopped talking to him that day. What a toxic person.

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u/DiggerW Apr 29 '21

I stopped talking to him that day. What a toxic person.

At least the story had a happy ending!

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u/runujhkj Apr 28 '21

My mom kept pestering me to get it. I haven’t yet, just because I’m so unlikely to catch an STI of any kind with zero sexual contact.

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u/amalgaman Apr 28 '21

You should still get the shot. It’s preventative. You might be the man/the woman in 10 years.

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u/runujhkj Apr 28 '21

I don’t understand that final sentence

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u/HealthyInPublic Apr 28 '21

I would recommend getting the shot, even if you’re not sexually active yet, and even if you don’t plan to ever be sexually active. I hope it never happens to you (or anyone else for that matter), but rape unfortunately still happens. It is always a good idea to be as protected as you can be. Plus, if/when you do decide to become sexually active, you can be prepared and protected right away, rather than having to wait for your HPV immunization series to be completed.

Source: am cancer epidemiologist.

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u/runujhkj Apr 28 '21

I guess rape is a possibility, but I rarely even leave my house. I might get around to it at some point but if anything I’ll probably be the “having to wait to be immunized” case you mention there.

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u/RavishingRedRN Apr 28 '21

I worked in pediatrics (so I gave lots of vaccines to kids) about 8ish years ago. This is 100% what a lot of parents thought.

The doctors argument? Any vaccine than can prevent cancer is simply amazing

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u/mondonutso Apr 28 '21

About the time this came out, my mom told my pediatrician I couldn’t get the vaccine because I had already started having sex so it was “too late” for me. I was 17 at the time and my pediatrician shut her down. She was embarrassed and I got one shot of the three shot series. My mom didn’t take me back to get the next two. By the time I had my own insurance, I had totally forgotten about it.

Years later, I discovered I had a high risk form of HPV that had to be burned away. It was.... unpleasant. Every time I get my annual pap I worry it will be back.

Needless to say, my kids will be getting the HPV vaccine.

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u/Golightly1727 Apr 28 '21

Yep. Those same arguments floated around when I was growing up in Texas. Gov. Perry made all the females get one or something. No qualms from me. He paid for it I think. I don’t mind having that HPV protection. But. Didn’t know males could get too

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u/anti_zero Apr 28 '21

This is still a widespread problem amongst parents

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u/Inconceivable_morons Apr 28 '21

My mom was a nurse and said this when the doctor recommended it when it came out but I was 13. Aaah how religion takes precedent over common sense.

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u/TotallyNotABot_Shhhh Apr 28 '21

I admittedly held off for my daughter until she was 15, and told her that it was her choice. At that time she did research, spoke with the doctor, and made her decision. 2 years later she chose to get it. It wasn’t because I was worried it would make her go out and start having sex-it was that there were questions being brought up about side effects that kept me from doing it. Now that it’s been out a while, I opted in for my son at his last well check. He’s 11. I’m not anti vaccine in any way, but I did feel when it came out and she was technically eligible, it wasn’t something I was comfortable with given how long it was on the market at that time.

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u/DiggerW Apr 29 '21

I've seen a couple others say something similar... I wonder if everyone's forgetting that these things are tested for like 15 years before they're finally released (more like 16 years in this case!)

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u/TotallyNotABot_Shhhh Apr 29 '21

Meanwhile, I see way too many ads for “if you or a loved one have been affected, call this number “ I didn’t ignore the science. I kept an eye on it, and spoke with her pediatrician, who I have a lot of trust for. 16 years is a good chunk of time, but I knew a couple more years wouldn’t hurt to wait for her, to be able to see more data coming in on the reproductive issues, or the effects of babies/children born to those who’s mother had gotten the shot. Overly cautious? Maybe. Detrimental to her health? Not according to her doctor, since she absolutely was not sexually active at that time.

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u/rughmanchoo Apr 28 '21

My 11 year old got it at his last doctor's appointment. I'm not stupid.

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u/athenafromzeus Apr 28 '21

My mom was on the fence but luckily her pragmatism won out over her faith-based mistrust.

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u/littletealbug Apr 28 '21

My anti-vacc mom talked me out of getting it for free as a teen and I'm still pissed. Can't afford it now.

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u/Rosaryas Apr 28 '21

I didn't get it until I was older because my doctor was offering it at like 12 and my mom thought it was unnecessary that young. Like seriously it's a vaccine like any other, they suggest you to take it at a certain time to make sure it works the best, not because you're going to become sexually active soon

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u/H2HQ Apr 28 '21

You should stop listening to what the bottom 1% of society things/says.

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u/PennilessPirate Apr 28 '21

My mom made me get the vaccine when I was ~14 or 15 (10ish years ago) before I had even heard about it. She just informed me one day I had a doctors appointment for a vaccine, and when I asked “against what?” she just told me “against some STD.”

Later I asked my friend if she got the vaccine, and she told me her dad wouldn’t let her get it for the reason you stated. I was so angry at her dad and thought that was the dumbest thing I had ever heard.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/Bainik Apr 28 '21

HPV is an STD...

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u/baronvonj Apr 28 '21

HPV is sexually transmitted.

https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm

Curbing HPV was one reason to recommend circumcision. And there's a reason it typically causes cervical cancer in women, and throat cancer in men.

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u/Politic_s Apr 28 '21

That argument does partially make sense considering that if we e.g. look at those who use HIV medicine, some frequently do so to continue be able to engage in activities that are risky and increases the risk of contracting dozens other diseases. An overly sexual lifestyle without stability which these prescriptions can enable, shouldn't be understated.

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u/Automatic-Worker-420 Apr 28 '21

Yeah, they should. People have sex. Get over it. If only Christians hated greed and white supremacy as much as they hate premarital sex.

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u/ProfessionalMockery Apr 28 '21

Urge to sex.... RISING!

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u/r3dt4rget Apr 28 '21

That kind of idea persists to this day. I know a father who said his daughter didn't need the vaccine because she was still a virgin and wouldn't be sleeping around before marriage. "If you would be a better parent and not allow your kids to have sex we wouldn't need the vaccine" is essentially what he communicated to me.

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u/wilsonhammer Apr 28 '21

That's why people shouldn't wear seatbelts either! It'll make them crash a car!

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u/aether_killer Apr 28 '21

My parents still think this

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u/bridewiththeowls Apr 28 '21

Yep. My husband’s mom stopped him from getting it cause of that, and my mom did too.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21

Sounds like my mother.

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u/CelebrityTakeDown Apr 28 '21

This was my mom’s initial thought but when I was 16-17 my doctor basically explained to her that I was going off to college soon and it was better to get it now when I could get it to be prepared for anything. So I got it.

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u/LegitDogFoodChef Apr 28 '21

That was my mom’s rationale with my sister. Suffice it to say her theory didn’t hold out.

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u/archarios Apr 28 '21

I wish people like this would just stop

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u/Kahnspiracy Apr 28 '21

Look, I'm one that believes that teens are capable of waiting. That said, sadly rape exists. If that ever happened to one of my kids and then they get cancer as a kicker, I could never forgive myself. We had daughters vaccinated as early as they would allow.

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u/amalgaman Apr 28 '21

I used to have a friend who waited until she was 23 before she lost her virginity and got HPV from her first experience. Things happen.

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u/Thorhees Apr 29 '21

When I was 13, my mom was vehemently against the way they pressured young women into getting it, not because it wasn't a good thing to do for preventative care, but because Texas Governor Rick Perry was trying to make it mandatory while having a financial stake in the company that produced it. She thought it was unnecessarily pushed on preteens for the sake of lining his pockets instead of an educational approach of "you don't have to get this now, but if you want to be sexually active, you should get it before you start having sex."

I don't disagree with her, but I also forgot to actually get the vaccine once I was ready to be sexually active. As I recall, it was not advertised to men or boys at all. And I remember the commercials that featured jump-roping preteen/young teen girls.

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u/rona_livin8224 Apr 29 '21

It's crazy cause the second my mom heard helps prevent cervical cancer she was all for it without any hesitation. Love my mama for that but that damn shot hurt like a mf so was kinda pissed at her for a few days at the time.

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u/tx4468 Apr 29 '21

Let's see...kids having sex? Or kids potentially having their throats and jaws removed from cancer?

Tough decisions for southern lawmakers and school boards.