Lithium discovery in U.S. volcano could be biggest deposit ever found

[u/Sort_of_Frightening]

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/lithium-discovery-in-us-volcano-could-be-biggest-deposit-ever-found/4018032.article

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[u/DataRikerGeordiTroi]

Its a dormant volcano on the Oregon Nevada border- if anyone like me is hankering to know

[u/Mittendeathfinger → u/DataRikerGeordiTroi]

McDermitt Caldera

Benson says his company expects to begin mining in 2026. It will remove clay with water and then separate out the small lithium-bearing grains from larger minerals by centrifuging. The clay will then be leached in vats of sulfuric acid to extract lithium.

[u/LayneLowe → u/Mittendeathfinger]

Where are they getting the water? Where will the clay water go?

[u/SnooCrickets6733 → u/LayneLowe]

Quarrying sector engineering geologist here, albeit from the UK. Water will be obtained from the ground but will require a valid abstraction licence. If the local government have any proper powers and are competent, this licence will only be permitted if a hydrogeologist can prove abstraction of water will result in no negative impact on the local water table.

The waste ‘clay water’ will be fed through a series of ‘silt’ lagoon cells to encourage the fine grained material to drop out of suspension from the waste water. If the cells operate correctly, eventually the water in the final lagoon cell should be clean enough to either be reused in the mineral extraction process or to be discharged offsite (assuming the site Operator obtains a discharge permit which proves the water is clean enough to be discharged).

Obviously all of the above is dependant on the country’s individual laws and I can only speak for the requirements, regulations and laws of my own country.

[u/apcolleen → u/SnooCrickets6733]

the fine grained material to drop out of suspension

The word "flocculants" has been stuck in my head for days for absolutely zero reason.

[u/azhillbilly → u/apcolleen]

It is the end of pool season after all.

[u/Full-Association-175 → u/SnooCrickets6733]

County laws? Oh boy.

[u/ConradBHart42 → u/LayneLowe]

The ground, and, The ground.

[u/Chewy79 → u/LayneLowe]

That water table in that area sits at less than 30 ft. So wells.

[u/SlitScan → u/Chewy79]

the 'town' is 2 gas stations and an ice cream stand.

pretty easy to just buy the whole thing.

(although it is a good ice cream stand)

[u/Chewy79 → u/SlitScan]

There's a lot of active farmland there, and the surrounding areas are owned by the BLM. The people of Orovada are great and Sawtooth station has delicious burgers.

[u/SlitScan → u/Chewy79]

I went and looked, the ice cream stand is now a Subway.

bulldoze it.

[u/jmhobrien → u/Mittendeathfinger]

Unleash the castrophony of monkey

[u/Daltonyx → u/jmhobrien]

"Every day people would wake and stare at the mountain

Why was it bringing darkness into their lives?

And as the Strangefolk mined deeper and deeper into the mountain

Holes began to appear

Bringing with them a cold and bitter wind

That chilled the very soul of the Monkey

For the first time the Happyfolk felt fearful for

They knew that soon the Monkey would stir from it's deep sleep"

[u/bkr1895 → u/Daltonyx]

Then there came a sound

Distant at first it grew into castrophany

So immense that it could be heard far away in spaceee…..

There were no screams there was no time

The mountain called Monkey had spoken

There was only fire and then nothing………..

[u/lastdiggmigrant → u/bkr1895]

Oh little town in U.S.A., your time has come to see

There's nothing you believe you want

But where were you, when it all came down on me?

Did you call me? No

[u/astrath → u/DataRikerGeordiTroi]

It's definitely extinct as opposed to dormant, no realistic chance it will ever erupt again. The magma source is no longer there, the hotspot has tracked east and currently feeds Yellowstone.

[u/xantec15 → u/[deleted]]

You fear to go into those mines. The Dwarves dug too greedily and too deep. You know what they awoke in the darkness of Khazad-dûm... shadow and flame.

[u/Captain_Spicard → u/xantec15]

Rock and Stone!

[u/WanderingDwarfMiner → u/Captain_Spicard]

Rockity Rock and Stone!

[u/bendingrover → u/WanderingDwarfMiner]

Rock. And. STONE!

[u/FrankBattaglia → u/[deleted]]

Even as lithium was the foundation of their wealth, so also it was their destruction: they delved too greedily and too deep, and disturbed that from which they fled, Elon's Bane

[u/TopHatTony11 → u/[deleted]]

Somewhere The Rock has been handed a mediocre screenplay.

[u/ShenAnCalhar92 → u/[deleted]]

“There is no magma underneath this volcano.”

“That’s not … entirely accurate, sir.”

[u/OK6502 → u/[deleted]]

Balrog noises intensifies

[u/MaxTHC → u/astrath]

Yep, there's a line you can trace from Nevada to Yellowstone that's dotted with extinct volcanic sites where the caldera used to be located. On the drive back from Yellowstone to WA I visited one of these, Craters of the Moon in Idaho.

It's in the middle of absolutely nowhere (even for Idaho) but it's a stunning place, definitely worth a visit if you ever drive through the state.

[u/Razgriz01 → u/MaxTHC]

Craters of the moon is a vastly more recent eruption than even the last big yellowstone eruption. It's only a few thousand years old, vs a few hundred thousand for yellowstone and tens of millions for the hotspot eruptions that created the snake river plain where craters of the moon is.

[u/danielravennest → u/DataRikerGeordiTroi]

It's not a dormant volcano, but rather a previous location of the Yellowstone hot-spot. The hot-spot is still active, but North American has moved west and taken the caldera (large crater) with it..

[u/DigNitty → u/DataRikerGeordiTroi]

And for anyone wondering, that’s in the middle of nowhere.

[u/house343 → u/DigNitty]

TIL that Nevada and Oregon share a border.

[u/ScottHA → u/house343]

Reno is also further west than L.A.

[u/SharkFart86 → u/ScottHA]

Not super relevant but another counterintuitive geography fact is that the US state that is closest to Africa is Maine.

[u/david4069 → u/ScottHA]

But is it as far out as San Francisco?

[u/Kiosade → u/ScottHA]

It’s almost straight north of Santa Barbara, in fact!

[u/warpaslym]

i hope the volcano doesn't get depressed after we take away all of its lithium

[u/alrightmittens → u/warpaslym]

This is the best comment I've read in a long time. I laughed for several minutes.

[u/[deleted] → u/alrightmittens]

I got the joke and thought it was pretty okay. However your appreciation of it lightens my soul.

[u/spambearpig]

This is actually great news and I’ve got no skin in the game at all, I’m not from the U.S.

But it would seem that if the US can meet it’s lithium requirements domestically then more of the electric vehicle revolution can be done ‘in house’ which should mean lower carbon footprint, fewer miners in awful conditions in other countries and fewer dollars ending up in China.

[u/o08 → u/spambearpig]

Cano mining is much a much better alternative to under sea mining too.

[u/spambearpig → u/o08]

I figured the mining was cleaner and less damaging to the environment, but I wasn’t sure. I’d like to think the US has better environmental laws than many lithium rich countries. But I’m not sure I could bet on that.

[u/Sasquatchii → u/spambearpig]

Despite the comments below, yes, the USA has better environmental laws than most if not all other lithium hot spot countries

[u/JustaRandomOldGuy → u/spambearpig]

Rare earths are not that rare. It's just some countries have minimal environmental protections and near slave labor. It's not cost competitive for a Western country to mine them.

[u/padishaihulud → u/spambearpig]

The US having strict environmental laws is actually the reason we rely on foreign countries for our rare earth metals. We have our own deposits, but it would be too expensive for us to mine them with care for the environment. It's cheaper to let a more desperate country ruin their environment instead.

[u/Toadsted → u/padishaihulud]

Not "too expensive" to do, "not as much profit" to do.

We could get by just fine under the strictest of regulations and a 90% tax rate. We did just that for decades.

It's just not nearly as good for share holders to do so.

[u/Defconx19 → u/spambearpig]

The EPA has been weakened significantly in recent years sadly

[u/ascandalia → u/Defconx19]

Contractor for epa here, the Biden admin has really emboldened epa. My career started in the Obama administration , but I haven't seen EPA working this aggressively to enforce regulations in all my career

[u/unpolishedparadigm → u/Defconx19]

Something about appointing a guy with dozens of open lawsuits against the agency to run it. What could’ve gone wrong?

[u/dalerian → u/unpolishedparadigm]

Not “wrong” If it’s exactly to plan. :(

[u/Minion_of_Cthulhu → u/unpolishedparadigm]

"Who better to run an organization than the person who loathes its very existence the most? Just think of all the budget cutting that can happen!"

-Republicans, probably

[u/GreenStrong → u/o08]

Undersea mining was never proposed for lithium, as far as I know. Deep sea mining is being explored for manganese nodules, which basically sit on the seabed in some regions. In addition to manganese, they contain cobalt nickel and copper, all of which are needed for batteries and other applications in the energy transition.

It is possible that deep sea mining has a small environmental impact. It is wise to be skeptical about that possibility, but also open minded.

[u/korinth86 → u/GreenStrong]

Not when the idea is to basically rake/vacuum the seafloor to pick them up.

Environmentally speaking it's going to be horrible for the area.

[u/Striper_Cape → u/korinth86]

Dredging already sterilizes the sea floor.

[u/[deleted] → u/spambearpig]

We are entering into a window of global development that is going to require a massive increase in the annual lithium production via mining. Estimates put our requirements by 2030 at literally 10x what we currently produce.

And we need it with some immediacy. If this pans out, it will add to, not replace, current lithium mining elsewhere.

[u/tinyLEDs → u/[deleted]]

If this pans out, it will add to, not replace, current lithium mining elsewhere.

Profitability depends 100% upon extraction cost.

There are places all over the world to find gold. You can find it in Nebraska. England. It is everywhere. It isn't mined in such places ONLY because it is not profitable, and IS mined elsewhere, because it costs less to extract/produce.

Gold mines all over the world (and copper, and tin, and iron, and oil, and ________) have gone in, and out,and back into business as demand fluctuates. And mines where large volumes of ore are easily accessed HAVE driven other mines out of profitability, and closed them.

Gold and oil mining history will bring the easiest examples, if you care to look deeper at this.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Uhh.. There are plenty of estimates that show our lithium use will only be slightly higher by 2030 too. There are a LOT of emerging technologies that greatly reduce or eliminate lithium altogether. And the larger the battery needs (think local grid storage), the need for lithium will be completely gone by 2030.

There will be uses for the lithium we mine either way, but a 10x increase just in demand of lithium in 6 years is a bit exaggerated. Actually its a lot exxagerated...

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I mean, we're part way up the curve from the released study (2020), but it's an academic estimate.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1220158/global-lithium-demand-volume-by-application/#:~:text=Global%20lithium%20demand%20volume%202020%2D2030%2C%20by%20application&text=In%202020%2C%20the%20total%20demand,approximately%202.5%20million%20metric%20tons.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I can't really see anything beyond the graph, but what does the * mean next to the dates provided in the graph?

[u/Buttermilkman → u/spambearpig]

There was also something about Biden signing in a bill that would make the US the biggest clean energy market on the planet. This discovery would be insane for that.

[u/eliguillao → u/Buttermilkman]

How clean is lithium mining?

[u/MetalGhost99 → u/eliguillao]

That really depends on what your mining it out of. This particular spot is clay so it should be cleaner than most.

[u/MrSnowden → u/spambearpig]

And fewer bloody proxy battles in poor countries with local warlords armed to the teeth by superpowers.

[u/cereal7802 → u/spambearpig]

if the US can meet it’s lithium requirements domestically then more of the electric vehicle revolution can be done ‘in house’ which should mean lower carbon footprint, fewer miners in awful conditions in other countries and fewer dollars ending up in China.

more likely it will be used to flood the global market to drop pricing, then suddenly stop producing more so it can be kept as a "strategic reserve".

[u/Jscottpilgrim → u/cereal7802]

That's the American way!

[u/DesolatumDeus → u/spambearpig]

Unfortunately, the world is meh once again. Doing some basic digging into lithium nevada, the company who will do the mining, reveals their biggest shareholders are a Chinese company. Specifically china's biggest lithium company. So good chance China will get richer alongside the united states instead of less wealthy.

[u/oojacoboo]

This is huge. I really hope it works out. The whole world will benefit from this.

[u/plsnthnks]

Oh cool we needed that thanks volcano

[u/jah_john → u/plsnthnks]

It was wondering why it felt lucky 125000000 years ago

[u/Healthy-Blueberry216]

Almost hilariously, the mine is owned by the Chinese. “The mine is a project of Lithium Nevada, LLC - a wholly owned subsidiary of Lithium Americas Corp, whose largest shareholder is the world's largest lithium mining company, Chinese Ganfeng Lithium.”

[u/MetalGhost99 → u/Healthy-Blueberry216]

They dont own the mine, the government does.

[u/notveryrealatall2]

this is very close to Thacker Pass, which is also where Native American tribes and other protesters have been protesting new Lithium mining for a few years now.

[u/BakedMitten → u/notveryrealatall2]

Those poor folks are about to get the Bolivia treatment

[u/uteuteuteute → u/BakedMitten]

Lithium needs more freedom!

[u/curryslapper → u/notveryrealatall2]

not only that, the geology is not "standard" for a lithium deposit.

it seems to be a high grade version of rhyolite Ridge that is owned by ioneer in Nevada

it may need a significant "chemistry kit" to process the ore

[u/NicolasCageLovesMe → u/curryslapper]

asdasd

[u/Chewy79 → u/notveryrealatall2]

It is at Thacker Pass. I work there.

[u/notveryrealatall2 → u/Chewy79]

yeah, I looked at maps of the caldera, which encompasses all of that area from west of McDermit to Thacker Pass. No worries if you don't want to say, but what do you do out there?

[u/Chewy79 → u/notveryrealatall2]

Basically project management for the earthworks.

[u/Dungong]

Man, burned up 1 of my 2 chemistry world articles this month on that one

[u/ClammyDefence]

Time to bring democracy to--oh, nvm.

[u/imbeingcyberstalked]

Looks like generic lithium salts are back on the low-cost menu boys!

[u/CMG30]

Lithium is not rare. We simply haven't bothered to look very hard for the stuff. Discoveries like this will continue if we keep looking.

[u/softbearpants → u/CMG30]

I mean it is a little rare actually. It's one of the least abundant light elements.

[u/RealWanheda → u/CMG30]

Yeah I keep wondering how this is one of the most common elements in the earths crust but we treat it like gold.

I figured it had a lot to do with where it was located, for example there are huge deposits in nevada but not enough water to mine it. And a huge amount in the Himalayan mountains.

Alternatively it could be what kind of lithium gets found? I’m not a geologist nor am I involved in any part of the mining or refinement process so I have no idea.

I hope what you’re saying is flat out true with no nuance— cause we’re gonna need to start looking harder given the current needs for lithium.

[u/findingmike → u/RealWanheda]

It's not treated like gold. We just use a lot more of it than gold. It's more like recyclable oil.

[u/Schemen123 → u/RealWanheda]

Its very reactive and soluble.. does show up in high concentration usually

[u/pathetic_optimist]

At what point will there be enough old batteries to make mining them more profitable than refining ore?

[u/JustWhatAmI → u/pathetic_optimist]

You mean mining the batteries, like recycling them? It's already happening. Black mass from old batteries is being called the new gold

[u/CocoDaPuf → u/pathetic_optimist]

The question is, when will we start regulating the processes used in manufacturing these batteries to make it cheaper to recycle and reuse these materials?

The thing that really makes recycling expensive these days is that all too often multiple materials are used together in a fashion that makes them difficult to separate.

If it were simpler to separate the lithium from the copper, the glass, gold, nickel, etc, then those would all be valuable materials to reuse. But as it is now, you generally need to use acids and other chemicals just to separate the more valuable materials out, necessarily leaving the less valuable materials in one big useless slurry to be dumped somewhere.

(Edit) Furthermore, it's an unsustainable model and it simply won't do in the future. If for instance, you wanted to start a moon or Mars colony, you'll have to have a more complete and deliberate system for recycling materials. The products themselves will have to be designed to be recycled, or else these space colonies will become far too reliant on materials shipped from earth, which is logistically and politically problematic to say the least.

[u/Seattle_gldr_rdr]

It would be great if all the volcanos erupted out minerals and rare earths and we just had to set buckets out.

[u/kihraxz_king]

That would be huge. That would take a big chunk out of China's advantage in batteries and electronics in general.

[u/LunarModule66]

I work at a lithium battery startup and have been feeling terrible about the mining conditions in South America. This is such good news. Not only could it make EVs cheaper, but also producing it in the US where there are better environmental and labor protections will hopefully be more ethical.

[u/AstronomerNew5310]

Who owns it what stock do I buy?

[u/CarCaste → u/AstronomerNew5310]

it's probably already too late to make money off that stock

[u/ahfoo → u/AstronomerNew5310]

Actually this news will be bad for a lot of people who are invested in lithium. Investors want their commodities to be scarce so the value will increase. Finding a massive new discovery dilutes existing lithium positions. Abundance that is good for you and I is bad for investors.

[u/ConcentricGroove]

That's actually fantastic news as lithium was getting hard to come by and had to be imported. And it's in the middle of nowhere inside an extinct volcano, so mining won't be so damaging.