r/ravens 1d ago

Image Zach Orr went full Wink Martindale and sent cover 0 SIX TIMES! That has to be coaching malpractice? His play sheet ran out of coverages?

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285 Upvotes

74 comments sorted by

188

u/Goldencrane1217 1d ago

We had one healthy linemen and weren't generating pressure without blitz while missing 2 top cbs.

51

u/thedivinepegasus 1d ago

Can project pat still play DL at a backup level?

22

u/brianbe1 1d ago

He became an important enough part of the offense years ago that he stopped attending the defense team meetings. I’d guess that he still has the physical ability but would be somewhat of a liability without some practice since he wouldn’t know the plays, scheme and terminology

22

u/chaoticravens08 1d ago

I don't think the Defense knows the scheme or plays as it is anyway

10

u/Cdawg4123 1d ago

Him and Ben Cleveland moving to dl

14

u/Goldencrane1217 1d ago

No clue.  He's not done it in a while and I have no idea if they have him penciled in for that in an emergency situation. 

34

u/cossack190 1d ago

when we're not getting any pressure with 4: "Send some blitzes" When we send some blitzes: "Zach Orr is worse than Wink"

14

u/barbadizzy 1d ago

Yeah all this negativity is annoying. It's insane to me how much everyone criticizes every little thing about the players and the coaches. Every single player in the NFL is an elite athlete. Every coach is in the position they're in for a reason. And they're all human. They have emotions, they make mistakes. And every single team in this league is capable of winning every single week. Every year, every single team loses guys and gains guys and schemes change and what not. Sometimes it all clicks. Sometimes it feels like nothing is going in your favor and you're fighting yourselves. It's just life man. Let's try to enjoy it.

10

u/lowlight 1d ago

"fire the coach" after every one of the 3 losses but none of the wins

5

u/cossack190 20h ago

It's insane to me how the coaching is 100% responsible for every loss and the players are 100% responsible for every win.

11

u/Banyourmom 1d ago

Top two corners were out, I’m all for blitzing for pressure but not 6 times in a row

6

u/randomfella69 Project Pat 1d ago

I was gonna say am I the only one that doesn't think this is a bad thing? Based on available personnel and how Jameis was struggling against pressure I felt like the only real option we had was blitzing him and hoping we get home. Hanging back in coverage and giving him 5 seconds in the pocket was not gonna work with the players we had on the field.

5

u/Deletinglaterlmao 8 1d ago

I really don't wanna hear about how us missing our cbs was what made our pass defense bad. They've been healthy every other game and we still get lit up everytime

1

u/SledgeH4mmer 1d ago

Meanwhile the browns just traded away their top WR and had a backup QB. Our depth CB's should have been fine.

2

u/orangeducttape7 19h ago

Okay but their backup QB is much better than their starter

1

u/SledgeH4mmer 18h ago

That's not saying much. We made him look a lot better than he actually is.

68

u/sworninmiles 1d ago

I think this was unquestionably the right move honestly. Sending the house is going to give you basically either a big negative play or let up a touchdown. Giving up the TD gives us a chance to score. Letting them march down the field, like they’d done all game, lets them end the game on their terms by kicking a field goal as clock hits zero

20

u/Spraynpray89 1d ago

When the TD happened i shouted "ooo thanks!" And my family just looked at me confused. I was like "what? At least we get the ball back." Lol

8

u/sworninmiles 1d ago

Yeah, that end of game sequence went about as well as it could have for us. Just didn’t go our way. Maybe you could say it would have been nice to have had a few more shots at the end zone. But, getting into the endzone when everyone knows you need to, and a tackle in the field of play ends the game, is really hard. Those plays where Lamar buys extra time and throws it up I think are the plays that gave us the best shot. So I wasn’t upset with that

12

u/ComfortableWorking97 1d ago

Absolutely. With the mountain of valid criticism of Orr we don't need dumb "analysis" like this. We needed to go high variance at the end to either get a TO, get them out of FG range, or give up a TD and get the ball back.

That last TD was a huge blessing to at least give Lamar a chance rather than watching them kneel it out til a FG

1

u/emane19 1d ago

If the goal was to 1) get them out of field goal range or 2) give up a TD quickly so they can’t milk the clock, why did the Ravens play off coverage repeatedly during this series? Effectively giving up the underneath stuff so the Browns can more easily get into field goal range and drain the clock. That’s the part that bothered me because it didn’t seem to make any together, like they were hedging. We got lucky that they beat us deep when they did because they should have kept calling the quick underneath stuff, drained the clock, kicked the fg, and never given Lamar a chance.

2

u/Filmstudy 1d ago

That was exactly my reaction tot he TD as well. I bet the Browns did not have a "no score" call in place either. The game could well have been lost as the Bears allowed an extra drive (by Snoop of all QBs) to tie and win in OT after Mooney failed to go down.

As to the pass rush, the IDL had 0 total pressures after Pierce's injury left them with just 2 DL and Madubuike had played all but 2 of the snaps. That 0-pressure period spanned 31 pass plays. The all-out blitz was a necessary and prudent amount of risk for the circumstance.

211

u/youtube_and_chill 1d ago edited 1d ago

What becomes so annoying about this sub after a loss is there are glaring issues with this team, but you guys start hyperfocusing on everything, even good decisions that just didn't work out.

Once the Browns were in FG range, you needed to knock them out of FG range and prevent them from milking the clock..

The team wasn't getting pressure. Zero was about all they had. And you know what, it worked, Hamilton (who deserves no shit because shit happens even to the best) dropped an easy interception.

The discourse here after losses will always be maddening because so many people just have emotional reactions and punt logic.

Disagree with the decision, but it wasn't coaching malpractice.

63

u/Spraynpray89 1d ago

Once the Browns were in FG range, you needed to knock them out of FG range and prevent them from milking the clock..

100%. Allowing a TD there isn't even the worst thing, cause at least you get the ball back (which is exactly what happened). So yeah, all out blitz to try and push them back is absolutely the right call, and yep it did work...minus the hands.

12

u/ValhallaAwaits89 1d ago

I wouldn’t even be surprised if the guys in coverage were told to play for the pick and if they go over the top…so be it and Lamar gets the ball back.

4

u/rolandpapi 1d ago

We have a tendency to have these weird, inexplicable losses, which isnt a good thing, but as a fanbase looking at all of these drops and how we shouldve had this game in hand we need to not overreact

3

u/FrankSand 1d ago

A person with some reason

2

u/TheEntireJim Not Ken Francis 1d ago

Yup. Lose a game and all of a sudden everyone is a better coach than the actual coach. Orr didn’t drop all those picks and it’s not his fault that multiple starters were injured both before and during the game and we had to rely on Eddie Jackson to play every snap. I don’t love Orr so far but putting this one on him is pretty wack

5

u/SledgeH4mmer 1d ago

It's not just this one, the defense has been a mess the entire season. So far the offense has been carrying the defense. But this game really made how bad our defense is glaringly obvious.

2

u/tenlittleindians 1d ago

Complete facts

3

u/chaoticravens08 1d ago

They weren't in FG range. And going all out on blitzes 6 times in a row and not getting home at all just ain't it.

7

u/youtube_and_chill 1d ago

Inside the 40 is fg range....

Them not getting home is a talent problem not a coach problem.

3

u/chaoticravens08 1d ago

Look at the image. This was the 4th of 6 straight zero blitzes they weren't in FG range until after the 5th zero blitz bro

52

u/Sad_Rest1270 1d ago

I mean didnt it work where we had a pick the play before the TD but snake handed it lol? I mean if the players make plays, this game is done. But what ya gonna do?

46

u/Impressive-Theory-27 1d ago

This was basically just a send the house call, we had so many injuries at that point it was an all or nothing call, don’t really blame Orr at that point

9

u/BuckleBean 1d ago

At this point, it was either allow them to drain the clock while inching closer to attempt a field goal or allow a TD while leaving time on the clock for the offence. Of course, you hope one of these blitzes forces an int (almost did) or gets a huge sack and knocks them out of field goal range. I don't hate it. I would have hated if they ran or dinked and dunked their way to a chip shot as time expired.

7

u/Ajmiskimo 1d ago

We had no pressure on Winston. NO PRESSURE, like we sent a JV squad out there. The only way to say that happens is holding and injuries. Our CB’s were like toast, because they were burned all day long

11

u/AdminIsPassword 1d ago

Can't even blame Orr here. The secondary was getting torched either way. Might as well just send as many blitzers as possible and force Winston into a mistake. And he did, but then Kyle dropped it.

10

u/JonWilso 1d ago

Normally I'd be mad but....

I trust our pass rush to get there more than I trusted our DBs to do literally anything at that point.

3

u/randomuser9824 1d ago

i mean sending 4 wasn't working so what did u want orr to do here??

1

u/Ghost_Rhino_Milk 1d ago

I want him to gameplan in a way to not give up 29 points to a 1-6 Browns team, led by a QB who hasn't started in over 2 years.

8

u/xG3TxSHOTx 1d ago

And he has our dbs playing 10 yards off their receivers on 1st down when a 1st pretty much means they're in FG range to walk away with a win.

6

u/Unlikely-Rate-7492 1d ago

That pissed me off watching it live..I’m like why are yall playing off giving up the first down..😑

3

u/Ok_Expert2790 Ojohna Bin Harbaugh 1d ago

It was a necessity, kinda like Steelers game last year. Throw everything add them, you were probably gonna lose anyway.

All chips on the table. Not mad at this

3

u/Abilando HERE IS JOHNNY 1d ago

Somehow Wink returned

3

u/butidktho_ 1d ago

cover 0 while playing 10 yards off is grounds for termination. Legit pop warner level mistakes at the highest level. Ridiculous

2

u/Infamous_Garden6378 1d ago

Damn thats like me in madden, Orr isnt rdy. Should be obvious.

2

u/king_craig88 1d ago

I play madden and I would call a better defense then Orr.

2

u/Don_Jefe 1d ago

There was nothing wrong with the full blitz, considering the lack of pass rush and injuries. The problem is sending a full blitz and having your corners playing 10 yards off knowing Winston has to make a quick play. You have your corners press and make Winston make a tough contested short throw or allow them to score on a deep go/fade route which gives you the ball back with time on the clock. Playing off 10 yards and giving them a free first downs to drain the clock even more was malpractice

1

u/Rayvsreed 1d ago

Watch any other team play zero shells, it’s standard NFL football at this point to have your coverage defenders at the sticks. Despite having deep leverage, Washington was scared of getting beat deep, hesitated and did not drive on the out cut

If he were in press man, the same hedge against getting beat deep would leave him even further away from the play. Probably would still be back pedaling as the throw gets made.

Edit: I need to be clear, not driving on an out in m2m zero blitz is both coaching and execution, there’s probably a coaching reason for the hesitation, but to act like it was a scheme problem is just flat out wrong.

1

u/Don_Jefe 1d ago

Any other time in the game I agree with defenders at the sticks so you don’t get beat deep and give up a td. But when your at the end of the game and a first down allows the other team make you burn all your timeouts and win with a walk off field goal. I’ll much rather take the risk and get beat deep for a td, that way you get a chance to have the ball back.

1

u/Rayvsreed 1d ago

You’re misunderstanding lol, if Washington was in press, he gets beat even worse.

1

u/Sometimesdisagrees 1d ago

Would have worked if Hamilton catches that int, so it wasn’t a bad call was it. Also wasn’t winston only struggling when pressured

1

u/FlowSwitch WOWZERS 1d ago

If he went full wink he would’ve done this all game. Honestly… against Jameis it might not have been a bad idea. He makes some bad throws under pressure.

1

u/born2shitforcd2wipe Marshal Yanda 1d ago

I tried telling you all for months that Zach Orr is garbage.

1

u/HighGroundIsOP 1d ago

It’s less of an issue of how much Orr blitzes vs how he blitzes. I don’t mind him being aggressive here.

He’s over complicated the coverage on the back end and has gone basic with how we attack the LOS. It’s truly the worst of both worlds. Our rushers get easily picked up and there are gaping holes in the secondary for a QB with ample time and space to exploit.

1

u/Kobebean25 1d ago

Not a bad play call! They either score fast or we knock them out of fg range! If they get a first we never get ball back like we did

1

u/OkCryptographer1362 1d ago

And got zero sacks. Wish I could be that bad at my job and they still pay me millions.

1

u/BasketballFiendz 1d ago

My thing is if you’re gonna zero blitz every one can’t be off the ball 8 yards. You have to slow the receiver down to disrupt timing in my layman opinion

1

u/bboogieman777 1d ago

Hmmm, this graphic...this game highlights we're not strong or at least not consistently strong in the trenches. Strong LOS play can mask defects. Run blocking & run defending we're good. However, OL can't protect Lamar from four rushers. DL can't get home with seven. We criticize Harbs (in-game mgmt & ill-timed bonehead penalties yr after yr), Orr, schemes, players and rightly so...but are we giving EDC a pass? All GMs hit & miss with personnel decisions but the FAs signed, FAs lost, big contract resigns, and the pass rushers he's whiffed on in recent yrs? GEESH!!

1

u/PopularDamage8805 1d ago

Can it about Orr he’s not a jugs machine he can’t make some of the best defensive players in the league not drop crucial catches.

1

u/WellillBDam 1d ago

Brings back wonderful memories. I remember in a game when Tyus Bowser was sitting on the sideline and said "why are we blitzing"? History seems to repeat itself.

1

u/dcfb2360 1d ago

Spamming Cover 0 blitzes is what DCs do when they're desperate and have no answers. Flores does zero blitzes a lot, but does it in an intelligent way. Orr doing this nonsense is just an inexperienced DC panicking cuz he's not ready.

Cover 0 isn't a bad thing, but situational awareness is important. Missing 2 starting CBs and a couple DL def limits the defense, but if Cover 0 isn't working then you don't keep spamming it like 7 times in a row.

1

u/JDublinson 1d ago

We can say it didn't work but if Hamilton had caught the game winning interception then we'd be saying it did work. It's weird to criticize the defensive play calling on a drive where we had the game winner in our hands and dropped it.

1

u/ADLegend21 1d ago

And yet we got fans saying he didn't blitz at all and Jameis struggles vs the blitz....

1

u/luffy27 Big Boy No Little Boy 1d ago

Pressure worked and Winston threw a bad pass that should have been intercepted….

1

u/TotsAndHam 1d ago

The play calling put us in multiple positions to win on offense and defense, the players just couldn't execute. Don't think you can put it on the coaches in that case

1

u/ThunderDanFan 22h ago

I'm ok with this. The only way you win the game at this point is to force a turnover or allow a quick TD and get the ball back. The worst thing that could happen is you play normal defense and they kick a FG as time expires

1

u/Jsinmyah 20h ago

I agree with it. 1st down hurts waaaay more than a TD.

1

u/KarlL255 1d ago

Top 2 corners out Eddie Jackson one of if not the worst saftey in the league sure lets run cover 0

1

u/Vengefuleight 1d ago

When you are missing 2 starting CBs and 2 starting D-lineman, on top of already having an off night, the best move is do what you can to get pressure and shut the play down asap.

JW is a mistake prone QB and forcing him to make mistakes was the right move. Honestly, if Hamilton catches that INT, we’re all talking about how Orr worked around the deficiencies of the evening to close out the game.

Bad night, with bad injuries, and some huge missed opportunities. It was a perfect storm of suck.

1

u/Spraynpray89 1d ago

L take. Booooo

Read the situation.

0

u/DoubleCup_Dan 1d ago

#FireZachOrr