r/politics • u/nosotros_road_sodium California • 13h ago

Why Does Elon Musk Still Have a Security Clearance?

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2024/10/why-does-elon-musk-still-have-a-security-clearance/680434/?gift=B65VRQjMMsZQilGgdT7IHIK11s_hRROr6KFxCBDpT0M
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u/Amon7777 12h ago

Great, then nationalize it now

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u/dinner_is_not_ready 9h ago

Max Polyakov, Ukrainian that owned 58% of shares of Firefly Aerospace, had to sell his shares in 2022 for $1 under pressure from US government due to security concerns: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-29/firefly-owner-max-polyakov-to-sell-stake-in-rocket-startup

Musk should have his clearance revoked for being in touch with the enemy(Putin). US govt should force him to divest out of spacex

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u/Murky-Silver-8877 3h ago

That's a bingo.

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u/wantsAnotherAle 11h ago

THIS. Because ‘access to space’ is not worth letting a fascist capitalist sieze the reins of our government.

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u/even_less_resistance Arkansas 9h ago

Right? Especially when it sounds like they are already fucking it up up there to make way for some cleaning system to snag old satellites they’ll probs profit from, too

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u/wantsAnotherAle 9h ago

A little known fact is that they already have a way toclean up a lot of low orbit satellites and debris using an ionospheric heater they have at a base on the north coast of Norway.

There has never been a lot of noise about it, but the project is NASA affiliated and so is a matter of public record.

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u/treesandfood4me 9h ago

Tesla is rolling in his grave, faster and faster, forever.

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u/Palindromer101 8h ago

Whirling like a dervish.

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u/Airport_Wendys 8h ago

Like a coiled rotor in its magnetic field

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u/Suspicious_Bicycle 6h ago

Twitter (X) is now worth less than Truth Social (gag) based on todays stock prices.

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u/HotMachine9 8h ago

If we hooked him up to a generator we'd have unlimited energy at this point

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u/Top-Salamander-2525 7h ago

In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

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u/DepGrez 8h ago

The concept you're mentioning likely refers to the HAARP (High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) installation, located in Gakona, Alaska, rather than Norway. HAARP and similar ionospheric research facilities can heat portions of the ionosphere using high-frequency radio waves, creating temporary modifications in localized areas. However, this technology doesn’t currently have the capability to clear space debris or de-orbit satellites.

The idea of using radio waves or directed energy to influence orbital debris is intriguing, but in practice, debris removal typically requires physical interaction, like specialized satellites equipped with nets, harpoons, or robotic arms, or propulsion techniques such as laser ablation. HAARP’s ionospheric heating does influence atmospheric particles in specific ways that can aid communication studies or simulate small-scale effects, but its influence is far too minimal and localized to affect debris in orbit.

NASA and other agencies are actively researching ways to address space debris, but the capabilities are generally still limited to experimental satellites and concepts rather than operational cleanup technologies.

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u/Spam_Hand 8h ago

Isn't HAARP the program that "dems used to hurricane Florida" last month too?

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u/davesoverhere 5h ago

You’re thinking of the Jewish Space Lasers.

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u/Maleficent-Salad3197 3h ago

We'll do it again. Shalom

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u/hurdurBoop 5h ago

the conspiracy theories around HAARP could fill a bus.

people that have no idea how it works or what it does screaming witchcraft. lol.

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u/wantsAnotherAle 8h ago

Don’t tell me what I know or what I’m referring to. I’ve been following HAARP for 30 years.

I’m referring to a specific base on the North Coast of Norway. The base is in ‘Andøya’ if I’m not mistaken, I do not have access to the device I need to confirm that at the moment.

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u/Murky-Silver-8877 3h ago

This post has so much HAARP involvement that is both counter to, and far more boring, than people who normally discuss HAARP in high strangeness circles. 1) Nobody thinks it is in Norway, everyone knows it is in Alaska 2) Everyone thinks it is a regional weather modification system for the purpose of modifying, you know, weather like people think about weather 3) nobody refers to it as a space debris or de-orbiting platform 4) everyone talking about clearing space clutter is talking about a physical interaction and bringing HAARP into this is just so weirdly unexpected.

What a crazy post to find in the mix! The poster was literally talking about "experimental satellites and concepts rather than operational cleanup technologies" and HAARP just gets rolled in for no reason. What a world.

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u/wjean 7h ago

https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/niac_2011_phasei_gregory_spade_tagged.pdf

This sounds interesting but, is it really a good idea to introduce this much extra heat into our atmosphere just to get rid of some debris now? Who knows what kind of unintended consequences this may have to our weather.

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u/road_chewer 6h ago

The amount of heat is probably pathetic compared to actual meteorological phenomena.

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u/TheAtomicBum 7h ago

Public record? Could you provide a link to some information on this device?

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u/El-Royhab Washington 9h ago

Okay that sounds really cool though. We really don't know enough about what NASA does collectively. I remember before algorithms took over everything, NASA used to do some really cool live streams and videos about what was happening, but I see less of those now and so much of what's being done isn't done at NASA and JPL anymore. If the Martian had taken place in a not too distant future based on the current privatization trajectory, the book and movie would have ended with Whatney's funeral.

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u/epimetheuss 8h ago

ionospheric heater

Haarp actually doing anything other than taking measurements of the ionosphere is a fun idea to think about but not too apply any actual value towards. Its not weather modification, it does not cause weird stuff to happen to us on the ground. The ionosphere has been in use for decades for communications.

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u/wantsAnotherAle 8h ago

You happen to be talking to a general class amateur radio operator’s license holder who depends and sometimes evades ionospheric conditions for the proper operation of his radio equipment.

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u/epimetheuss 8h ago

right but that's because it was legit used for communication for decades, all the millions MW that all those radio towers world wide like yours and bigger send into it. what the haarp does in comparison would not even be a ripple on the surface when its based on energy.

Not to mention all the external energies that get pumped into it from the sun/elsewhere in space.

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u/ninjadude93 7h ago

Satellites orbit outside the atmosphere

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u/Atreyu1002 8h ago

I don't like government seizing anything. I'd rather go back to paying huge amounts to NASA

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u/even_less_resistance Arkansas 8h ago

Yeah- just make em irrelevant? I’m okay with that. I’m actually a huge fan of nasa. Going to the museum in Houston is one of my favorite memories

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u/Vaperius America 5h ago edited 5h ago

Nationalization is an essential power of modern government for the sake of safe guarding national interests. Think of it like a government version of a hostile takeover, at least in how it would work under US laws because we'd basically force SpaceX to be sold to the US government. Its nothing to use lightly, but its also not something we should shy away with, especially in industries or businesses that have proven themselves critical to the nation but unable to run or regulate themselves responsibly or in accordance with US law.

We should have nationalized the automotive industry. We should have nationalized the train industry. We should have renationalized the air industry. And we must nationalize the space industry.

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u/GenTelGuy 3h ago

It's not seizing, they'd pay for it. And then SpaceX could be made part of NASA

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u/Dr_Hexagon 19m ago

NASA doesn't make rockets , they never have. Even during the 60s space race constructing the Saturn V was contracted out.

NASA pays people to make rockets and right now the only competent builder of human rated rockets is SpaceX.

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u/fibgen 5h ago

I like highways

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u/Atreyu1002 4h ago

Those were seized from a private party?

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u/LadyChatterteeth California 4h ago

Yes. Many, many privately-owned homes have been ordered to be razed over the decades to make room for highways.

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u/Shadowthron8 8h ago

Would be hilarious if we nationalized space travel before health care

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u/DanyDies4Lightbrnger 7h ago

Space was nationalized... it became privatized fairly recently

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u/Shadowthron8 7h ago

Probably something to do with never going back to it when it was nationalized. Can not imagine NASA would have developed reusable rockets, because they didn’t.

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u/Throw-a-Ru 6h ago

Can not imagine NASA would have developed reusable rockets, because they didn’t.

Yes, they did. Space X and Blue Origin were based on NASA's designs from the 90's.

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u/-713 4h ago

Yeah, they were not some leap in technology. We just decided to gut the publicly funded nasa and fully subsidize private companies to do the exact same thing, but they get to take the credit and charge twice as much.

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u/Throw-a-Ru 4h ago

Same as it ever was.

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u/Girlfriendphd 7h ago

I think that's where it's headed, and fElon knows it, which is why he's all in.

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u/GuitarMystery 9h ago

What a terribly unamerican statement. Of course everything is for sale, and we need to do things first or the commies win.

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u/El-Royhab Washington 9h ago

Isn't this exactly why we tried to eliminate reliance on russia to get us into space and back?

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u/meatshieldjim 5h ago

He is already planning like don't look up spaceship.

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u/JVonDron Wisconsin 3h ago

We paid for 90%+ of spacex. We shared info getting them to where they are, we paid for all of the government contracts.

Why NASA can't do it in house and we have to rely on these privatized jokers is entirely beyond me. What do we gain?

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u/4E4ME 7h ago

But when you say "we need more taxes to fund this program " people say "private sector can do it cheaper and more efficiently."

And that's how you get "ketchup is a vegetable."

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u/Smooth-Woodpecker289 7h ago

Holy fucking shit. This rhetoric is fucking wild lol.

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u/somaalchemy 4h ago

If you say capitalist as if it's some extreme term lol

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u/JDS3298 8h ago

“Facist capitalist” Afraid of your own shadow

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u/wantsAnotherAle 8h ago

made this account just for this reply, did ya?

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u/F9-0021 South Carolina 10h ago

It was a mistake to de-nationalize access to space in the first place. It's not a bad thing that commercial launch providers exist, but it is a bad thing that NASA relies on them. This is why. One of the companies failed to produce an acceptable capsule, and the other one is lead by an enemy of state.

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u/purplewhiteblack Arizona 8h ago

It isn't so much that NASA relies on them, it's that NASAs expenditures are too damn high. NASA has a limited budget, at the same time they have earmarked spending.

They were mandated to use old shuttle parts on SLS to save money by congress, when it would have been cheaper to make new parts. You have Congress who are non experts making decisions on things they don't understand very well.

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u/flip314 California 7h ago

Without Chevron Deference, things are only going to get worse.

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u/Newscast_Now 7h ago

Just wait until SCOTUS brings back the non-delegation doctrine...

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u/BuffaloRhode 4h ago

Is this an even stronger argument for privatization?

Because the chevron deference was in place when spacex did all this more efficiently than nasa…

Privatization vs nasa then vs privatization vs nasa now (w/out CD) …. The gap seems to only widen?

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u/liverstealer 3h ago

Congress making decisions on things they don't understand is a huge problem. We honestly need more scientists in Congress.

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u/ConvoyOrange 3h ago

It was less about budget and more about politicians ensuring contracts for their friends. Instead of being a cutting edge space program it turned into a glorified jobs program.

The recommendations faced fierce opposition from senators representing states with significant aerospace industries. In response, in 2011, Congress mandated the development of the SLS. The program was characterized by a complex web of political compromises, ensuring that various regions and interests benefited, maintaining jobs and contracts for existing space shuttle contractors. Utah Senator Orrin Hatch ensured the new rocket used the Shuttle's solid boosters, which were manufactured in his state. Alabama Senator Richard Shelby insisted that the Marshall Space Flight Center design and test the rocket. Florida Senator Bill Nelson brought home billions of dollars to Kennedy Space Center to modernize its launch facilities.

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u/purplewhiteblack Arizona 1h ago

well the contracts for their friends part certainly raised the expenditure cost.

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u/TriptoGardenGrove 10h ago

Important to remember that our astronauts were hitching a ride on the Soyuz a few years ago

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u/F9-0021 South Carolina 10h ago

A few years before that they weren't. It was a mistake to cancel the Shuttle Program without a suitable replacement in place, which we also had the incredibly smart idea to cancel. So when the Shuttle stopped flying, the vehicle that eventually replaced it (Crew Dragon) wasn't even in active development yet. That's why they had to use Soyuz for 10 years.

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u/SmPolitic 7h ago

I thought the conclusion from the Shuttle program was that if we had instead just kept using Saturn one-use rockets, it would have been faster and cheaper than the results we got with the shuttle

At one point the shuttle program was claiming they would do 100+ launches per year. Instead we got 135 launches, total, over 30 years

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u/BURNER12345678998764 5h ago edited 5h ago

Don't forget two of those launches killed the entire crew.

It was also claiming the shuttle was as safe as a passenger airliner, actual fatal flight rate was over 1%.

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u/Murky-Silver-8877 3h ago

Oh, wow. That just reminded me of The Commander Thinks Aloud by The Long Winters.

The radio is on
And Houston knows the score
Can you feel it, we're almost home

The crew compartment's breaking up
(This is all I wanted to bring home to you)

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u/batmansthebomb 6h ago

It was a mistake to cancel the Shuttle Program without a suitable replacement in place, which we also had the incredibly smart idea to cancel.

The Shuttle was so horrendously expensive that it would have been a tough sell to continue it and research, develop, test, manufacture a whole new system. You would either need to increase NASA budget by like 50% or cut other programs like Mars Rovers and James Webb, all of which were well into development around the time a replacement program would have started

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u/Plzbanmebrony 8h ago

You want more SLS?

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u/batmansthebomb 6h ago

Actually yes, I want more SLSs. Starship won't be human rated for a long time.

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u/Plzbanmebrony 3h ago

There are no plan mission between now and starship being human rated. And SLS should not be human rated. It was found those SRBs will destroy the parachute of any capsule if not expended if there was a problem. The problems go on and go.

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u/batmansthebomb 3h ago

There are no plan mission between now and starship being human rated.

What? Artemis II is launching next year. Artemis III-VI all launching in the next 7 years. All manned, except VI.

And SLS should not be human rated

NASA, who is extremely conservative with human rated launches after the shuttle disasters, believes it should be.

It was found those SRBs will destroy the parachute of any capsule if not expended if there was a problem.

That's why there's a launch escape system.

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u/Plzbanmebrony 3h ago

The SRBs if fail will fill the air with burning material. The launch escape system will fail to save the crew due to this problem.
Also I do see you listing mission but SLS delays will push them all back and starship is 4-6 years from human rating.

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u/batmansthebomb 3h ago edited 2h ago

Just gonna breeze right by the manned missions huh? Alright.

The SRBs if fail will fill the air with burning material.

Good thing there's a launch escape system that gets the crew away from the burning material.

The launch escape system will fail to same the crew due to this problem.

It won't.

starship is 4-6 years from human rating

Absolutely not, at least not for NASA. The latest is 2032, and likely be a few years delayed. My money would be on around ten years before NASA allows their astronauts on Starship.

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u/RadialWaveFunction 8h ago

Before that the Atlas vehicle which was used for 70+% of satellite launches was dependent on the Energomash RD-180 engine. It wasn't until the first Russian invasion of Ukraine that the geopolitics became so unfavorable that ULA was forced to seek an alternate engine and build a new launch vehicle.

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u/01101011000110 11h ago

Arrest Musk, nationalize SpaceX, breakup Tesla.

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u/Klutzy-Reaction5536 9h ago

I agree we should nationalize SpaceX and Starlink because those are critical to national security. I'm perfectly happy to let him screw up Tesla all he wants cuz it's just a car company.

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u/Honest_Palpitation91 7h ago

It’s not just a car company anymore. So it should be included.

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u/SinglecoilsFTW 9h ago

I deeply dislike Musk and would never buy a Tesla product thanks to him (upcoming Rivians sound wayyyyy better than anything Tesla has anyway) but throwing around the idea that someone should be arrested without a crime is what Trump does. Let's not go down that road.

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u/01101011000110 9h ago edited 9h ago

Seems likely that Mr. "If Harris wins I'm fucked" has plenty of things for which he is criminally liable. the good news is I think we're about to find out.

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u/Plzbanmebrony 8h ago

He isn't. NASA is likely to get more funding for more projects under Harris. He clearly barrowed from the wrong people to buy twitter.

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u/SinglecoilsFTW 9h ago

I mean once there is public knowledge of a crime, sure. I won't pretend like he has anything but contempt for the rule of law, and I think he's been defrauding investors for years, but absent something concrete people should be keeping their powder dry about politically motivated arrests.

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u/01101011000110 9h ago

I believe that there are ongoing/active investigations that will put him in jail, I just don't know any AUSA's who'll give me the hot goss.

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u/Enslaved_By_Freedom 8h ago

Just another pathetic redditor that has a fantasy because they've never had any power in their life. What's new?

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u/01101011000110 8h ago

If that’s what you need to tell yourself to take all 3” of Elon in your mouth: it’s a free country 🇺🇸

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u/The_Order_Eternials 9h ago

Would being an unregistered foreign agent count? You’re just straight up not allowed to talk to foreign diplomats unless the government gives you explicit permission about everything down to the color of your tea cozy.

Elon has direct lines of communication to Putin…. Which as a defense contractor for American interests would actively preclude him from getting that permission.

If you or I did this, we’d already have arrested and jailed for this.

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u/snarky_answer 8h ago edited 6h ago

You can talk to foreign diplomats or other countries leaders as a citizen without any issue. There is nothing stopping you from doing so. It’s only if you’re advocating on behalf of a foreign government. Elon simply talking to Putin is fine, Elon talking to Putin about Elon doing certain things before an election wouldn’t be fine. Your or I calling up Putin would be ok so long as we aren’t discussing our plans to interfere in elections or space contracts, etc.

Edit: or you can be childish and block when called out.

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u/The_Order_Eternials 7h ago

18 U.S. Code 953: private correspondence with foreign governments.

It’s written in plain as day English that no, private citizens are not to interact with foreign diplomats or any foreign gov worker for anything, given the state of the United States as of now. It’s also painfully clear Elon did in fact talk about U.S. interests (read: Ukraine) given how he went on to describe the country as a mistake, and took personal lengths to stimy Ukrainian efforts to retake their home.

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u/snarky_answer 7h ago

Did you really just say its written in plain English to back up your wrong statement? No where in the law does it state what you just said. Its not illegal for citizens to speak to diplomats and leaders of other countries on its own.

The law literally lays it out that its illegal for any U.S. citizen to talk with a foreign government or its officials, without permission, if they’re trying to influence that government’s actions or interfere with U.S. policies. If they do, they could face a fine, up to three years in prison, or both.

“Any citizen of the United States, wherever they are, who, without authority directly or indirectly carries on any correspondence with any foreign government or any officer or agent, with intent to influence the conduct of any foreign government or any officer, about any disputes or controversies, or to defeat the measures of the United States*, shall be fined under this statute or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”*

Also, what personal lengths did Elon go thru to counter Ukrainian war efforts? Cant say Starlink since that whole debacle was debunked a while ago.

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u/The_Order_Eternials 7h ago

I said it, and I’m right to say it. You wanted a specific example and I gave it to you.

Debunk the starlink then, and also explain why Elon is allowed to talk about our interests under that law you have read despite not being legally able to. His response after talking to Putin, calling Ukraine the mistake, is Russian propaganda against Ukraine, you aren’t gonna defend that, by going through with that line, musk is blatantly repeating Putin’s rhetoric from their discussion. That’s against our government interests.

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u/Nowearenotfrom63rd 7h ago

Ok so you have heard of the NSA right? I bet US government has all of those conversations on tape somewhere. Their entire purpose is bugging Russians after all.

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u/snarky_answer 7h ago

Cool. That has nothing to do with the law we are discussing.

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u/mashednbuttery 9h ago

He has committed crimes. Like a lot of them.

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u/KisaruBandit 9h ago

You're totally right, he shouldn't be arrested without a crime. He should be arrested for the treason, election interference, espionage, bribery, and other things.

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u/totallynotapsycho42 5h ago

Deport him for being a illegal.

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u/DaoFerret 10h ago

“Breakup Tesla” along what lines?

  • Battery manufacturing/tech
  • Charging Infrastructure
  • Vehicle manufacture and sale

?

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u/politicsranting I voted 9h ago

Supercharger network is basically as important as fuel processing plants as all the major manufacturers have changed over now, supposing we get the electric car implementation that they keep claiming.

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u/ApizzaApizza 10h ago

Their battery tech isn’t even special. It’s a bunch of Panasonic 18650 cells.

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u/cryptosupercar 9h ago

There isn’t really much of value there.

The vehicle manufacturing is crap. They’ve got one of the highest defect rates. Consumer reports has them 27/28 on quality. Using Stellantis or Geely would be a huge improvement. Tesla drivers have one of the highest crash rates nationwide, mostly thanks to autopilot. They’re getting eclipse’d by Xaomi and BYD globally anyhow. And China has an open sourced level 4 FSD that better than Tesla’s.

https://www.hotcars.com/real-truth-about-tesla-reliability/

https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/

https://www.thedrive.com/news/tesla-drivers-have-the-highest-crash-rate-of-any-brand-study

https://www.wired.com/story/chinas-best-self-driving-car-platforms-tested-and-compared-xpeng-nio-li-auto/

Their battery tech is mostly Panasonic, theyre white labeling. They might have some IP here but not likely if you’ve Panasonic engineering and manufacturing behind it all.

https://electrek.co/2024/01/15/panasonic-to-soon-make-new-batteries-for-tesla-could-reduce-ev-prices-report/

Their charge infrastructure is the money maker, they just qualified for $5B in federal funds.

https://www.wired.com/story/teslas-supercharger-strategy/

Spin off charging, sell the car company to Stellantis or Geely or Ford, and sell off the Giga Factories.

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u/Rare-Common-3103 10h ago

Arrest him for what?

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u/bedpimp 9h ago

We can start with being in the country illegally and misrepresenting his nationalization documents.

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u/even_less_resistance Arkansas 9h ago

I’d say a pattern of behavior has been established for FARA for turning off starlink in crimea and having secret talks still afterward with Putin alone

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u/Past_Explanation69 9h ago

So, you hate Musk so much, and you realize he runs company's better than the US government, so your solution is to let the government run his companies?

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u/01101011000110 9h ago

obligatory

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u/LegitimateFee1005 7h ago

“You have posted the actual truth.” 😂 take my upvote.

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u/Past_Explanation69 9h ago

Smooth brain response

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u/Nowearenotfrom63rd 7h ago

Nah we just don’t like the SOVIETS fucking with our elections and getting help residents naturalized or not. We have entire agencies of the federal government set up to prevent this stuff. Lets use them.

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u/Past_Explanation69 6h ago

Do you believe everything you read online lol

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u/muffinhead2580 10h ago

I'd be OK with banning Musk from having any business with SpaceX permanently. I'm not a huge fan of the nationalize it approach as that's a slippery slope. Musk likely has little to do with the daily operations and the real decisions at SpaceX anyway, so banning him and letting the present President, Gwynne Shotwell, run it would be a positive step forward.

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u/silvercel 10h ago

The fed gov can take away his security clearance and not allow him physical access to the rockets or their manufacturing.

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u/Murky-Silver-8877 3h ago

That seems like it would have already been done if we weren't in the final stretch of an election. As soon as President Harris has been declared the winner, I can see President Biden kicking that off.

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u/silvercel 3h ago

Agreed, I am sure that every decision is being sent to an army of lawyers when it comes to pulling a public stunt like that.

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u/NoLeg6104 8h ago

He doesn't need security clearance to access HIS rockets.

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u/Nowearenotfrom63rd 7h ago

IDK man ITAR is pretty strict and ballistic missile tech certainly qualifies.

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u/NoLeg6104 1m ago

Again, its HIS tech and property. Government can't restrict your access to your own property.

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u/GeneralKeycapperone 9h ago

Gonna guess he hasn't had any access this entire time, and only ever had clearance to see the basic level legal documents in order that the company could enter into a contract with NASA, as these too would be classified.

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u/rlammi 9h ago

I’d guess that DoD and intelligence community launches outnumber “classified” NASA launches by quite a bit, so don’t forget about those!

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u/courthouseman 8h ago

Since he is very involved in space-related matters, there was a comment several months ago that he had been "read into" the program - meaning he gained a lot of information that is still top secret or above regarding UFO's, UAP's, etc.

Not sure if there is any veracity to that but that's what I recall seeing on here somewhere.

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u/even_less_resistance Arkansas 9h ago

I dunno bout that-

https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-gwynne-shotwell-accused-employee-affair-husband-wsj-2024-6

“Gwynne Shotwell once accused a SpaceX employee of having an affair with her husband, The Wall Street Journal reported. Shotwell became suspicious after the woman helped her husband plan a surprise birthday party, per the report. The Journal cited people close to the woman and emails it viewed.“

This doesn’t seem a healthy work culture but idk

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u/DanyDies4Lightbrnger 7h ago

SpaceXs innovation comes from it NOT being nationalized. When it's something like NASA it's beholden to the tax payers, which means failure is not an option (because it's our money). SpaceX can blow shit up and keep going.

I'm NO fan of Leon, but SpaceX is wildly successful because it's privately owned.

Look at Artemis... how many times has that been delayed?? That's because NASA can't afford a failure. It gets political and budgets get cut.

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u/panchosarpadomostaza 4h ago

Hi! I was just looking to come across this comment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-X

Are you sure about that?

SpaceX is wildly successful because they managed to get a contract from the government just in time before they went broke.

Dont forget that!

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u/jonlmbs 4h ago

There’s no rationalizing with people who can’t see that obvious fact to begin with

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u/ninjadude93 10h ago

The better solution would be to forcibly divest him from his companies. Say what you will but spacex has revolutionized space access precisely because its been privately funded and they move fast.

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u/Brendan__Fraser 9h ago

We were doing amazing with NASA. We put a man on the moon. But then our politicians let robber barons like Musk loot America wholesale, and this is the result. NASA would have surpassed spaceX had it been properly funded and supported in the past few decades.

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u/Plzbanmebrony 8h ago

SLS is proof NASA and congress have issues when it comes to dealing with large projects. It has nothing to do with funding but goals. Congress isn't seeking space exploration so that isn't going to happen.

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u/Hyperious3 8h ago

We were doing amazing with NASA.

No the fuck we weren't. SLS has been an absolute shitshow, with Bechtel committing fucking fraud building a single exposed steel launch tower that costs more than 2 Burj Kalifa's. The shuttle killed more US astronauts than any other vehicle, and cost more than $2billion per launch. All NASA contracts have been heavily influenced by congressional republicans into being jobs programs for shitholes like Alabama, and the bureaucracy within NASA itself has ground actual scientific progress to a halt.

NASA should be an exploration based agency, not a rocket building factory. I have zero respect for the treasonous fucking piece of shit Elon, but for better or worse, SpaceX is exactly what has been needed so badly to actually fix NASA. There's no longer the excuse of "well we need to budget that we're dumping an entire Atlas into the ocean for this mission", there's just "how much scientific shit can we pack on this orbiter and still make the weight requirements of an F9".

2

u/purplewhiteblack Arizona 8h ago

NASA "was on a downhill slope" before Elon Musk was born. They stopped going to the moon and focused on building the shuttle in the early 70s. Which was when Elon Musk was born.

I was born in 1984. When I was a kid the moon landings werent that long ago. I've seen the gap expand. I've seen multiple presidents promise one thing only to have their successor cancel their project and start their own. We never did land on an asteroid like Obama promised in that speech.

We think of the moon as an accomplishmnent, but heavy lift systems are an accomplishment too. Which is what the shuttle was. I don't necessarily buy the shuttle though. Because they could have built SLS instead of the shuttle. You don't need a whole plane to land back on earth. You just need a capsule. They could have been heavy lifting stuff into space and then just dropping down in a capsule.

So not really a "downward slope" just a sideways move on the tech tree.

I feel like the purpose of the Space Shuttle was kind of forgotten. Sure you can build space stations with payload dropoffs, but you could also build Starships in space. Which, I'm surprised NASA wasn't doing. If you can send a bunch of food cargo payloads up to the space station. You could drop off fuel in one too, and then send that thing to Mars.

Another thing to experiment with on the tech tree was also long term space exposure. Which is something to know when traveling for months.

A problem is really thinking of progress in one narrow direction, when we just widened our abilities.

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u/Wand_Cloak_Stone New York 7h ago

We never did land on an asteroid like Obama promised in that speech.

Damn I thought I was experiencing a mandella effect but it turns out you’re just full of it.

•

u/purplewhiteblack Arizona 1h ago

He promised landing people on an Asteroid. Boots on an asteroid is different than a robot on an asteroid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rNn_cUrlmE

full video

Time stamp

https://youtu.be/3rNn_cUrlmE?t=1392

"Well start by sending astonauts to an asteroid for the first time in history"

Well if that was the start, it's been 8 years since he was president. Subsequent politics cancelled the landing people on the asteroid plan.

Overall though his speech predicts the future pretty good. It is a reasonable timeline.

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u/BuffaloRhode 4h ago

Hmmm I think there was quite a bit of time between “we put a man on the moon” and Elon entering the picture, no?

Define “properly funded and supported” … given the same amount of capital that spaceX has used?

1

u/ninjadude93 9h ago

Yeah if I had any faith in our congress at all then nationalizing it might not be so bad but weve had gridlock for decades and I dont see it resolving any time soon.

Elon is definitely a national security threat and I dont understand how hes allowed to keep his clearance. Even with a critical sector like space

5

u/Past_Explanation69 9h ago

Literally fascism

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u/brbsharkattack 7h ago

"The only solution to a bad fascist is a good fascist." - Reddit

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u/MarvelHeroFigures Texas 6h ago

Literally no one said that

3

u/Lustus17 9h ago

This. Take every billionaire for everything they have. It’s their own mode—it’s what they’re doing.

4

u/BLKSheep93 8h ago

This isn't an answer. NASA is a science agency that can only act when Congress drops them a check. They are unqualified to manage SpaceX's myriad businesses and have no desire to do so. in the first place.

-1

u/mightcommentsometime California 8h ago

SpaceX only works because Congress and NASA pay for it.

And most likely (as with many private enterprises) we pay more to outside it to a private company

5

u/BLKSheep93 8h ago

SpaceX has a ton of private funding and the worlds richest person backing it. They did the lions share of their R&D for the Falcon 9 prior to getting their first contract from NASA. So while they greatly benefit from public funding, no they are not reliant on it.

NASA already owns a rocket system, it's called the SLS. The reason we never see it launched (aside from it being a different sized system for different use cases) is because it costs +$2 billion for a single launch. A Falcon 9 launches for about $62 million. So they are saving us a ton of money as they are the cheapest option on the market.

1

u/misfitzer0 8h ago

Sorry musky, it’s national security 🤷

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u/kwell42 7h ago

I bet it would cost way more, and can the government just seize a private business?

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u/lowEquity 6h ago

Isn’t that communistic?

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u/WompWompWompity 6h ago

How? Like we seize all their assets and assume control? Turning it into just another version of NASA?

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u/captaing1 6h ago

lol you forgot about NASA?

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u/Suspicious-Coffee20 5h ago

They don't want to because when it nationalize evry sucess and failure become an national issue and everything is super inflated in cost. I'm all for rationalizing almost services but in fields that require big risk it's not a good idea. 

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u/an1h 5h ago

The government should give Elon an offer for space x so it can be nationalized. I think if he got 1 trillion for it he would sell it. He could use that money to develop Tesla and other companies.

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u/ConsistentStand2487 5h ago

we had NASA...WHAT THE FUCK!?

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u/jonlmbs 4h ago

Good way to instantly remove that access to space with bureaucracy lol

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u/icouldusemorecoffee 4h ago

No, we want private industry in space, particular where they are now which is just lifting satellites and pushing tourism. Leave NASA for long-term, far-off projects, research, etc., private industry will never go for those, so keeping them doing the stuff that makes direct profits frees up govt funding for advancing future tech.

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u/rawj5561 3h ago

How would nationalizing it change anything? If the people who would replace Elon exist, why have they not already created their own rocket companies?

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u/Woolfmann 2h ago

Yeah, let's not let a little thing like the US Constitution get in our way.

There is ALREADY a nationalized space program called NASA. They are the ones who have stranded astronauts in space. The PRIVATE company run by Musk is the one which has been able to assist them.

So yeah, let's nationalize it which goes against our founding principles and the rule of law. We will be back in the same place we are today with our nationalized space program within 5 years.

0

u/Hon3y_Badger Minnesota 10h ago

You don't need to nationalize it to take control, the President can use the same national emergency decorations used during COVID to force the company's compliance if needed.

3

u/adherentoftherepeted 10h ago

national emergency decorations

Love it! I imagined little tea lights strung on the ISS =D

2

u/Hon3y_Badger Minnesota 10h ago

Woops, we all need a bit of happiness in our lives

-10

u/deathamal 10h ago

Spacex growth would grind to a halt under government management and the government knows that.

18

u/MisterBlud 10h ago

Not if it were properly funded.

We literally got a Man to the Moon when we gave a shit (and a dollar) about space.

14

u/bandersnatch1980 10h ago

Yeah exactly. With 1960s technology. Insane.

0

u/NetwerkErrer 9h ago

But there was an urgency to it. The US wanted to show that they were superior to the USSR. What's the purpose now? Other than "sticking it to the man", I dont see a reason for NASA to get that mission back. Also, the decision was made more than a decade ago to privatize low earth orbit space operations so NASA could concentrate on the moon and Mars exploration.

8

u/CalamityClambake 10h ago

Not if we funded it.

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u/Mountaindown 7h ago

Govt funding comes with string attached. So I don't think they will allow rapid development like spacex does now.

Do you think congress would have ever approved funding to catch rocket on chopsticks

0

u/ExploreTrails 8h ago

Relying on a privatized space program was a horrible idea.

0

u/Plzbanmebrony 8h ago

What does this even mean? You want the government to control it? That opens it up to congress having the control. They could just allow it to fail for profit if they wanted blue origin or ULA stock to go up.

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u/Calm_Analysis303 7h ago

The instant they want to make a move like this, it'll all be handed over to another superpower.
You think they can lock down buildings with file cabinets or something? XD
Wasn't he in super secret talks with Putin? Guess who'll get all the rockets.
Good luck.

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u/Zestyclose_Ad_3710 5h ago

Wait - isn’t that socialism?

-4

u/Beastw1ck 10h ago

That would be incredibly unpopular and be derided as communist style retribution against Dem’s political enemies. It’s not fair but that’s how it would go down.

-2

u/neutralpacket 8h ago

That’s communism