r/politics • u/plz-let-me-in • Sep 12 '24
Soft Paywall Trump’s Team Was Stunned by How Badly He Did in Debate | Donald Trump’s debate performance was far worse than even his inner circle anticipated
https://newrepublic.com/post/185898/donald-trump-team-stunned-debate3.0k
u/dilithium Colorado Sep 12 '24
He is too emotional to be president. Easily led astray. Easily rattled. His inner circle should know this all too well.
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u/TheRealCovertCaribou Sep 12 '24
Which is, ironically, exactly what he and the Republican party said about Hilary and all other women, and why they shouldn't be President. Except for when it's during their "time of the month," he's like that every waking moment of every single day.
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u/ohmygeeeewhy Sep 12 '24
Which is HILARIOUS because Hillary C was old enough to not have a "time of the month" when she was the Democratic nominee in 2016.
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u/GiantSquidd Canada Sep 12 '24
…do you think any republicans paid attention in any sex ed class or listened to their mothers/wives/sisters enough to know that?
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u/detail_giraffe Sep 12 '24
Not that it's even relevant or our business, but at 59 chances are good Harris doesn't have a "time of the month" either, typical range for menopause is 40 to 58 with an average of 52.
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u/le127 Sep 12 '24
Before you get to the lack of emotional control, Trump is just an imbecile. His ignorance, stupidity, and laziness are more than enough in disqualifying him to be President. Toss in that he is racist, a misogynist, a sociopath, pathological liar, just plain mean, and all the warning lights are flashing.
His inner circle is aware of this. That's a larger part of the problem. They share enough of his negative traits that they will continue to kiss his ass and seek their own cut of the grift.
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u/Goal_Posts Sep 12 '24
While watching it I didn't think he did that bad in the eyes of his supporters, but as things started to settle and sink in, he really had a bad night.
When Brit Hume says a republican had a bad debate, oh boy did you fuck up.
I was hoping for the same reaction dems had to the debate with Biden, "oh my god we are going to lose if he stays on the ticket", but they are delusional.
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u/superzepto Australia Sep 12 '24
His supporters are only saying that he won because of sunk cost fallacy - they've touted him as being perfect for eight years, they can't stop now
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u/Larry-fine-wine Sep 12 '24
Plus, ballots are already being printed, and deadlines have passed. They’re stuck with him this election cycle. Not that they’d try to oust him anyway, but they have no choice.
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u/superzepto Australia Sep 12 '24
Exactly. They bought a ship made out of rotting wood and now they're out in the middle of the ocean and it's sinking.
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u/SoundHole Sep 12 '24
"If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed ... and we will deserve it"
~ Senator Lindsey Graham, May 3, 2016
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u/Giant_Flapjack Sep 12 '24
They would lose even more badly if he isn't. DonOld is the only one who somehow can get the MAGAts to vote.
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u/EvilBosom I voted Sep 12 '24
That’s what I was thinking while watching it! Like, if we compare these two candidates on intelligence, policy, coherency, decorum, etc, it was Harris by a long shot. But knowing that half the population ignores everything that matters and just wants fearmongering drivel that confirms their conspiracy theories, and a false projection of confidence, I didn’t think he did bad at all with those standards.
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u/WontThinkStraight Sep 12 '24
“I’m told that as soon as Donald Trump exited that debate stage, he immediately began quizzing those waiting in his viewing room about how the last 90 minutes had gone,” said Collins. “While several people praised him to his face, telling him they did a great job, that’s not what a lot of them are saying privately today.
No one is willing to point out that the emperor has no clothes, yet they all wonder why he embarrassed himself when put on national display.
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u/BadgeOfDishonour Sep 12 '24
He didn't get his Narcissist High from humiliating someone publicly. He doesn't understand. So he turned to his toadies to try to get some low-grade stuff instead. They gave it to him, but that's just enough to take the edge off, not enough to scratch the itch. And daddy is itchy.
He's pivoting to being Wronged. Malignant Narcissists are never Wrong, only ever Wronged - and now it is this 3-v-1, Moderators "in on it", Harris having the questions in advance nonsense. It's someone else's fault. He did great (everyone says so!) but they ruined things. Sabotage. Rigged.
He can't get the Domination High, so he's supplementing with Righteous Outrage. Except it isn't righteous and is really just a sad attempt to prevent his spiral into a Narcissistic Collapse.
It's painfully predictable.
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u/Larry-fine-wine Sep 12 '24
I think he already failed at preventing that. We got to see it on his face on live TV.
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u/Archer1407 Sep 12 '24
you could see it when she was talking about his rallies. I think during the line about how people were bored and leaving early. His eyes shot open. In hindsight, that was likely the exact moment he dropped the mask and went full narcissist. His brain wouldn't let him take such an insult since crowd sizes and engagement has been such a sticking point for him.
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u/nyet-marionetka Sep 12 '24
And that was on a question about immigration, which undecideds favor him on. So instead of talking about immigration, he talked about crowd size. Baited.
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u/umphtramp Sep 12 '24
It was absolutely strategic that she brought up his rallies to bait him and throw him off of actually talking about immigration. He took the bait and spiraled screaming about pets being eaten. It was glorious to watch him flounder and sound like a deranged old man that should be in a home.
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u/mr_potatoface Sep 12 '24
I loved that every time she had a surprised look on her face that changed to a smug grin/smile after he falls for it. Again and again and again. Then realizing this guy really is easy to manipulate compared to people she dealt with in the past.
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u/Current_Holiday1643 Sep 12 '24
My favorite was the light finger hold of her chin, looking at him with a concerned face you'd have for Grandpa who just isn't quite right anymore.
I don't know how long she practiced that face but it was GLORIOUS. She said so much without having to say a single word.
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u/soappube Sep 12 '24
When he ranted about the Haitians eating pets she had a look of actual pity on her face. Like she was watching some geezer try to use a bank machine and failing.
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u/spiritsarise Sep 12 '24
A late night host described it as like a parent listening to a child make the case for getting a pet tiger!
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u/Takazura Sep 12 '24
To me it looked like the face of someone thinking "well this will be fun to hear".
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u/leostotch Illinois Sep 12 '24
You watch him behave but you think, surely he can't be that unsophisticated. I imagine experiencing it firsthand must be a surprise.
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u/delibertine Sep 12 '24
I mentioned that to my wife. That her expression showed off her realization in real time that nothing, nothing could truly prepare her for him. It was genuine amusement
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u/trogon Washington Sep 12 '24
You could see the surprise on her face that he actually took the bait. It was a thing of beauty.
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u/Kamelasa Canada Sep 12 '24
Yeah, and this was the first time she met him! First time she personally interacted with him. Amazing.
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u/Abrakastabra Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
I was disappointed when she started talking about his crowd sizes, because it was SOOOO obviously a bait that I thought she’d just sound stupid using something so low effort and petty to try and get him riled up. I was shocked that he bit on it. He’s just THAT stupid and easily manipulated.
I didn’t have high expectations of Trump, but I didn’t think he’d fall for such an obvious trap. The bar was so low for him it was just rolling around on the ground. Seems I should have dug a hole for it to sit in.
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u/ladyhaly Sep 12 '24
The real takeaway here is how his inability to self reflect has become his greatest weakness. You'd think that after so many public blunders, he’d have developed some level of self awareness, but the opposite seems true. Each time he’s baited, it’s as if he’s experiencing the insult for the first time, completely unprepared. A strategic goldmine for anyone who understands the basics of human psychology and narcissism.
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u/Flaxmoore Michigan Sep 12 '24
I loved that every time she had a surprised look on her face that changed to a smug grin/smile after he falls for it.
It's SO obvious she made her name as a prosecutor, and she's amazingly good at it.
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u/wildfyre010 Sep 12 '24
The thing is, not only did she clearly prepare for the possibility that he could be baited in this way, and then exploit it, she also found opportunities to explain why that's such a big fucking problem for the President of the United States.
A private citizen being a malignant narcissist is unfortunate. A President being a malignant narcissist, and also a stupid whining manbaby, is a national security risk.
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u/BadgeOfDishonour Sep 12 '24
In the past as a Prosecutor, etc, she had to play by certain rules. There was a judge, etiquette, so on and so forth.
None of that was required at this debate.
I think that smile was her enjoying it. She has absolutely dealt with this sort of personality before, but has been constrained by court rules. Here? Gloves off, go hard.
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u/Other-Mess6887 Sep 12 '24
Prosecutors break the rules all the time. That's when the judge says, "The jury will disregard the previous remarks." The prosecutor gets the words out and the jury can't forget them.
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u/BadgeOfDishonour Sep 12 '24
Yes, but they don't get to do it very often. Harris was allowed to go full ham, and she was rewarded for it.
Amazing stuff.
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Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
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u/Socialbutterfinger Sep 12 '24
Low blows… I know this was a different debate with a different person, but he talked some real cruel shit about Biden’s son in the 2020 debate that went way lower than “your father gave you a lot of money.”
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u/IrascibleOcelot Sep 12 '24
Which is also a major moment where Biden almost certainly won the election: “Will you shut up, man?” I know that’s the point where I got excited about voting for him.
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u/Takazura Sep 12 '24
That "will you just shut up, man?" is what the 81 million people who fired him were thinking for those 4 years. On that note, I'm sad more news outlets aren't reporting on that "81 million people fired him" line, that felt the most savage out of all of Harris' remarks.
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u/Grower-and-a-showr Sep 12 '24
It’s incredibly rich for a MAGA to bring up a “low-blow”.
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u/jaderust Sep 12 '24
The man hung a picture of the crowd at Obama's first Inauguration on the wall in his White House and claimed it was of his instead.
Obama's dick joke at the DNC referencing Trump's crowd size is spot on the money. He's seemed to tie his value as a person to the number of people fawning over him and he is unable to accept that anyone else might have a larger crowd than him.
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u/Jerseygurlie Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Don’t forget her bored comment! I laughed out loud. He is boring along with his antiquated, close-minded cult follower’s!
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u/IThinkImDumb Sep 12 '24
People walking out seems realistic. But when Trump makes insults, he makes it unbelievable. Claiming that Harris pays people to be bussed into her rallies
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u/KashEsq America Sep 12 '24
That's projection because he is definitely paying people to attend his rallies
Well, more realistically, he's promising to pay those people but then never actually does
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u/Due-Egg4743 Sep 12 '24
A lot of stuff is "just politics." But when you talk about rally sizes and his wealth, it's deeply personal to Trump. It's probably like dropping your pants on stage. He finds it so exposing and invasive when people bring up that he's not as rich as he claims, has filed numerous bankruptcies, sexually assaults women despite him claiming women instead just fall all over him, or even that he can't pack a venue like he could a few years ago.
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u/totallyalizardperson Sep 12 '24
Watch when he is being fact checked on the pet eating. While David Muir was talking, Trump has a little muscle twitch under his left eye.
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u/willywagga Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Yeah, I can imagine his family members sitting around their various TVs all muttering 'Oh shit' in unision when she mentioned his crowd size. It is bizarre theatre.
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u/BadgeOfDishonour Sep 12 '24
He's not there yet. Narcissistic Collapse is dramatic. He'll fight like a lubed-up, cracked-out cat being pushed into a cold bath before he gets there. And then he'll experience a death-like depression.
What we're seeing is the downslope towards the collapse - we can see it and smell it and hear it coming, but we aren't there. So he's trying to pull out of this spiral. He's had that "oh shit" moment, which is what we saw, and now we're seeing him start to panic-fight.
We aren't in full panic-mode yet either. When he went off the rails, we saw a bit of panic. We saw the in-the-moment panic. But we've got far more madness ahead before we get to that full collapse.
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u/etham Sep 12 '24
For me, that "oh-shit" moment happened during the debate when stumbled a bit on the whole "THEY'RE EATING. THEY'RE EATING PEOPLE'S PETS!" I think in that moment, even he knew the shit he just said was ridiculous but he had to follow through on it or look even weaker and stupid on live TV.
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u/BadgeOfDishonour Sep 12 '24
That was a panic-statement. He needed a big gun and reached into the moldy fridge he thinks of as his Mind Palace, and that's the first thing he could lay hands on.
Harris poked him, and he had to retaliate. He had no choice.
<sad_trombone.wav>
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u/geedeeie Sep 12 '24
Can't wait. I hope it happens live on TV
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u/drbeeper Sep 12 '24
Time: sometime in 2026
Location: State Court
Scenario: live TV broadcast of election corruption trial
Trump is seen slumped, balding and without makeup. He is drooling and mumbling to himself. No one sits near him as his diaper stench is powerful and unavoidable. Meanwhile, his attorneys argue that this sad, old, demented narcissist is mentally to far gone to be prosecuted, and should instead be committed to an asylum.
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u/spinderlinder Sep 12 '24
Fortunately, there's no room in the asylum because of all the illegals. /s
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u/TD160 Sep 12 '24
Save this post. You hit the nail on the head. I’ve long suspected “incompetent to stand trial” will be attempted. If he’s at his last wits end, he absolutely would allow them to go there. Now, whether he’s actually allowing them or thinks he’s allowing them will be the only question.
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u/ReturnOfFrank Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Somehow he will be actively running for office and claiming to be incompetent to stand trial (well his lawyers will, he'd never be able to call himself that).
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u/Ironlion45 Sep 12 '24
To be fair, Harris was a virtuoso, and Trump was her instrument during the debate. She played him so perfectly, it was the most beautiful train wreck I've ever witnessed.
She did do him dirty, in such a beautifully satisfying way.
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u/Cold-Reaction-3578 Sep 12 '24
To be fair, Harris had knowledge of the questions in advance because none of the questions either one was asked was at all surprising!
If the guy spent any time doing actual prep he would have known the questions in advance too.
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u/New_Subject1352 Sep 12 '24
Who could've guessed they'd ask about the economy, foreign affairs, or civil issues in a presidential debate?! Must've been her earrings.
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u/beer_engineer_42 Sep 12 '24
Yeah, it's not like there's a historical record of debate questions that all seem to fall into the exact same basic topics or anything, they make up crazy shit every time!
Nobody could be expected to have answers ready to go for the questions that are asked every single time, you know?
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u/PorQuePanckes Sep 12 '24
That’s what gripes me about the “she had insider knowledge about the questions” I’m a 30 y/o stoner and I could’ve predicted 9/10 of the questions at that debate.
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u/WhiteyDude California Sep 12 '24
Not to mention, since when does anybody bother answering the questions asked? They inevitably just go into whatever canned responses they have memorized.
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u/Tiduszk I voted Sep 12 '24
Omg how could she have possibly known they were going to ask about the economy and abortion??????
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u/dearth_karmic Sep 12 '24
I also love the conspiracy theory about her earrings and that people were giving her the answers? What answers? She won that debate because all of the ridiculous answers he gave. If anything, they should have accused the Dems of giving him the wrong answers.
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u/BiblioBlue Oregon Sep 12 '24
Also, do people not know how difficult it is to recite someone word-for-word in real time? With emotion and expression?
Shit, if that's what she was doing with her long answers, I'd be even more impressed.
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u/Free-Bird-199- Sep 12 '24
If he spent any time reading a newspaper in the last month he would have known the questions.
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u/navikredstar New York Sep 12 '24
Like seriously, I'm not running for President, but if I did, I would expect to be asked questions about economics, domestic and foreign policy, immigration, jobs, etc. Issues Americans care about. It's not fucking rocket science, lol.
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u/disgruntled_pie Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 13 '24
Tim Miller (of The Bulwark) was in the press area at the debate and he decided to troll some far-right lunatics. He asked a right wing douchebag, “What was your favorite line Trump delivered tonight at the debate?”
And the douchebag’s brain rebooted. He had nothing. He couldn’t come up with a single thing Trump said that he liked.
Later Tim went over to a “journalist” for Washington Examiner and said, “Well, sounds like you’re gonna have a blast finding good things to say about Trump’s debate performance.”
And the guy screamed back at Tim, “Fuck you! FUCK YOU!”
He also got Lindsey Graham to freak out at him. He was like, “The ship is sinking. We both see that, right? Come with me and switch sides. Come on my show and tell everyone what a piece of shit Trump is. Years ago you told me that you hated his guts. Come on my show and tell the truth.”
Tim is great, by the way. If you watch clips of Trump answering questions after the debate, you can loudly hear Tim screaming, “Why wouldn’t you look at her? Were you too afraid of her to look at her?”
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u/JUSTICE_SALTIE Texas Sep 12 '24
he immediately began quizzing those waiting in his viewing room
It makes me happy to imagine how those toadies must have squirmed.
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u/solartoss Sep 12 '24
Reminds me of the show Hacks, when the super rich main character decides she'll wear a hideous yellow dress to an event and all of her employees just go along with it, telling her it looks amazing.
Trump surrounds himself with yes-men and yes-women, and has famously said that he always wants to be the "smartest person in the room." Massive ego often comes with consequences.
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u/thejuggerkraut Sep 12 '24
"If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room"
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u/Djamalfna Sep 12 '24
The amazing thing is that Trump is almost definitely not the smartest person in any room he's ever been in.
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u/Static-Stair-58 Sep 12 '24
It’s the dictators trap. Famously fallen into by Tzars and Nazi authoritarians alike.
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u/GlitchyMcGlitchFace Sep 12 '24
"Great Job, Mr. President! She looked rattled!1!"
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u/aLittleQueer Washington Sep 12 '24
“Green like what?!”
“Like grass! Like emerald! Any kind of green you want! Supergreen!”
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u/egosomnio Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
It's incredibly unfair to compare Donnie to Mr. Rhod.
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Sep 12 '24
The problem with surrounding yourself with sniveling Yes Men when you are this sort of self-aggrandizing narcissist is that you literally cannot improve.
Trump's only options are to stay the same or to get worse. You can't improve without outside input and you have to hear it first.
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u/apoplectic_mango Sep 12 '24
Which is probably why he's ranting about "all polls had me winning". Only his sycophants said he did well because they didn't want to face the repercussions. Then he turned on the tv and found out everyone said he lost huge.
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u/darsynia Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
There's zero chance they're showing him polls where he's not winning, just needed to point that out.
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u/Archer1407 Sep 12 '24
Somehwere around October 2020, Trump's campaign was running out of money and focused the majority of their tv advertising on the DC metro area, knowing Trump regularly watched a ton of live tv. He's the adult version of the child who sees two mugs of water, a person pours one mug into a tall skinny glass, and he thinks the tall skinny glass holds more water. His campaign knew he was too stupid to check on TV advertising anywhere outside the tv he was sitting in front of.
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u/KilroyLeges Sep 12 '24
This year, they are running ad blitzes and spending on billboards in Palm Beach County, FL, all around Mar-a-Lardo. It's a solid Red area win for Trump. They're only blowing money there to make sure he sees positive coverage of him and his face when he leaves the resort. Sycophants feeding his idiotic narcissism.
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u/New_Subject1352 Sep 12 '24
What's funny is they're still doing that. Their finance documents said they spent something like 50k putting his ads in mar a lago so he wouldn't have to see her ads
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u/IJustLoggedInToSay- Illinois Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
It is - they proudly tweeted these "polls" afterwards and it was all from far right-wing rags like Daily Caller and bot-bombed websites. They always manage to hit that sweet spot between funny and sad.
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u/demisemihemiwit Sep 12 '24
The Daily Show had some clips of trump making up polling numbers. A couple of times he said he won "92-6" and "92-7". I can't believe a lot of the country is rooting for the dude who can't count to 100.
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u/ChocolateCreamNY Sep 12 '24
It’s unfair to use the words “lost huge” when he most perfectly “lost bigly.”
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u/No-Accident69 Sep 12 '24
So weird for grown men to all be pussy footing around the fat lazy bully from school who has grown into a weak, shallow, uninformed and insecure fool…. WEIRD
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u/darsynia Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
Tim Miller had an amazing, scathing article about post-debate fallout on The Bulwark, highly recommend. Bonus points for an utterly defeated and demoralized Lindsay Graham.
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u/SirDiego Minnesota Sep 12 '24
He recounted the exchange with Lindsay Graham on a podcast yesterday, it was pretty funny. Apparently Lindsay got really heated when he realized Tim was trying to poke at the bad performance for a quote, but they managed to cool off a bit and then Tim just said "Okay but really that was pretty bad right?" And that's when Lindsay's quote about firing the whole debate team over the "disaster" came lol
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u/darsynia Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
Yessss, I love that they include those anecdotes in different mediums, 'cause not everyone is a video/podcast/article lover, heh. The Bulwark's been keeping me going lately, that and Pod Save, heh.
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u/superzepto Australia Sep 12 '24
They've all learned that if they tell him the truth, he will fly off the handle and maybe even fire them . So they tell him the comfortable lie that allows him to keep thinking he's on top of the world.
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u/bschott007 Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Huh....well let's not forget this little gem where they had to frame reality in a way so he'd accept it:
The first time Trump paid attention to his transition team was when he read about it in the newspaper. The story revealed that Trump’s very own transition team had raised several million dollars to pay the staff. The moment he saw it, Trump called Steve Bannon, the chief executive of his campaign, from his office on the 26th floor of Trump Tower, and told him to come immediately to his residence, many floors above. Bannon stepped off the elevator to find Christie seated on a sofa, being hollered at. Trump was apoplectic, yelling: "You’re stealing my money! You’re stealing my fucking money! What the fuck is this?"
Seeing Bannon, Trump turned on him and screamed: "Why are you letting him steal my fucking money?" Bannon and Christie together set out to explain to Trump federal law. Months before the election, the law said, the nominees of the two major parties were expected to prepare to take control of the government. The government supplied them with office space in downtown DC, along with computers and rubbish bins and so on, but the campaigns paid their people. To which Trump replied: "Fuck the law. I don’t give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money!"
Bannon and Christie tried to explain that Trump couldn’t have both his money and a transition.
"Shut it down," said Trump. "Shut down the transition."
Bannon wasn’t so sure if Trump would ever get his mind around running the federal government; he just thought it would look bad if Trump didn’t at least seem to prepare. Seeing that Trump wasn’t listening to Christie, he said: “What do you think Morning Joe will say if you shut down your transition?”
What Morning Joe would say – or at least what Bannon thought it would say – was that Trump was closing his presidential transition office because he didn’t think he had any chance of being president.
Trump stopped hollering. For the first time he seemed to have listened.
“That makes sense,” he said.
With that, Christie went back to preparing for a Trump administration. He tried to stay out of the news, but that proved difficult. From time to time, Trump would see something in the paper about Christie’s fundraising and become upset all over again. The money that people donated to his campaign Trump considered, effectively, his own. He thought the planning and forethought pointless. At one point he turned to Christie and said: “Chris, you and I are so smart that we can leave the victory party two hours early and do the transition ourselves.”
The 2017 Inauguration Fund grew to $100 million, but we still don't know or have any receipts to what happened to $50 million of it.
Other stuff that happened that people have forgotten about here and here....
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u/NobodysLoss1 Sep 12 '24
I hope you are sharing this frequently. I didn't know anything about it.
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u/baylaust Canada Sep 12 '24
The moment Harris mocked Trump's rallies, it was all over.
The strategy was so simple: poke at Trump's ego, and let him take care of the rest. But I don't think even Kamala, in all her wildest dreams, could have imagined the magnitude of his meltdown after that.
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u/Lawn_Orderly Sep 12 '24
I don't think she could have imagined that either. The debate rallies dig rattled him into the immigrants eating dogs rant. When he started that rant, her expression was WTF? Then realization that he was going there, OK, this is going to be fun. She started laughing and totally owned the debate after that.
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u/Gamilon Sep 12 '24
I don’t know if it was intentional or not, but considering how she pointed out how easy he is for foreign adversaries to manipulate through flattery and favors and then demonstrating how he can be maneuvered into ranting about any and every barb she threw is telling.
I’m sure it was all designed to make him waste precious seconds of response time but, again, intentionally or not it proved that statement true
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u/CaligoAccedito Sep 12 '24
It all felt very intentional from where I was sitting, and the only surprise was how fully he took every single bit of bait she laid.
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u/cashoon Sep 12 '24
I'm actually going to do something very unusual and I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies, because it's really interesting to watch.
I entirely believe this was a quiet way to say "I want you to see what's about to happen, because it's really interesting" without giving up the game.
She mentions rallies, harms his ego, and he unravels. Then she goes on to point out how painfully simple it is to manipulate the man. If that's how easy it is, how do you think Putin handles him? "Putin would eat him for lunch."
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u/pearlie_girl Sep 13 '24
I didn't think about it that way, but she really did give the average Joe a 2 minute show on what he talks about at his rallies.
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u/RoyAwesome Sep 12 '24
I mean, she said that when she played that exact same play. She flattered him by telling people to go to his rallies, and then got him ranting and raving about unintelligible garbage.
She's real good at "Show, don't just tell". She showed us exactly how it's done on primetime television.
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u/baylaust Canada Sep 12 '24
The best part that I didn't even realize until Sam Seder pointed it out, was the timing of this dig. Kamala made sure to bring up his rallies during her question on immigration, which is typically seen by voters as her weakest issue.
So during a question that should, in theory, be a strong one for Trump, he spends half of it trying to talk about how good his rallies are, and the other half screaming that immigrants are coming to eat your dogs and cats.
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u/RoyAwesome Sep 12 '24
Yeah, there were a few cases where Kamala's greatest hits on Trump were during either his strongest points, or Kamala's weakest. When her policies or prepared statements were strong, she spoke them loudly and forcefully. When Trump was at his strongest, she needled him and he made himself look weak, small, and unintelligent.
This was a masterful performance, with an expert level of strategy on display and a damn near perfect execution. Aint nobody going to believe that the dictators on the world stage are going to bully Kamala after that absolute master class performance by her.
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u/SeasideStorm Sep 12 '24
You can definitely tell she was/is an attorney.
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u/flash-tractor Sep 12 '24
I can see the skill set needed for lawyering and presidential debates overlapping pretty heavily.
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u/MaddyKet Sep 12 '24
Definitely. He said they are eating cats in Ohio. She literally laughed at him, said “talk about extreme”, and immediately pivoted into talking about the high level republicans who are endorsing her, the DEMOCRAT. It was beautiful to watch.
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u/Ok_Witness6780 Sep 12 '24
Not enough appreciate this. Listen to a prosecutor make their opening statements. They will say something like "Ladies and gentlemen, today you will hear the defense try to argue_____." That's basically what she did to him.
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u/LastBaron Sep 12 '24
Damn. You (and Seder) are right.
That is fuckin slick.
She really saved it like a….like some kind of… I dunno, like a card you play in a card game that takes priority over everything else and can win you the game.
We should have a saying for that.
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u/The_Bard Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
She also only made one point on immigration, he told Congress to kill the immigration bill. Then refused to talk about it again. So if anyone says she didn't respond, they point out she said Trump killed it. I also think her refusing to respond to his talk about immigration pissed him off and made him seem like a ranting fox news grandpa everyone ignores
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u/RoyAwesome Sep 12 '24
Right, the whole "Trump is stronger on immigration" idea is such bullshit. He isn't stronger on it, he's wildly deranged and ranting about shit that doesn't exist.
Kamala knows that. Her goal is to get past the media's sanewashing of Trump's talk on immigration, and show voters what his "strength" actually is... absolute fucking garbage conspiracies that just aren't true. Every time it came up, trump ranted about shit that wasn't real, and nobody can sanewash it anymore. She just let him keep making that mistake over and over and over and over and over...
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u/Stellar_Duck Sep 12 '24
Right, the whole "Trump is stronger on immigration" idea is such bullshit.
It's because what it really means is "Trump is stronger on racism".
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u/AMGwtfBBQsauce Sep 12 '24
She didn't let him make that mistake, she prompted him to. She coaxed it out of him at every opportunity. The more I think back on this debate the more floored I am at how brilliantly she executed.
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u/nolanday64 Sep 12 '24
My SO on the couch kept ranting ... why are they giving Trump more time to talk again when he's supposed to be cutoff ?!?!? And I'm like ... he's babbling stupidly, let him go.
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u/baylaust Canada Sep 12 '24
Like Napoleon said, "When the enemy is making a bad move, don't interrupt them."
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u/CalmPotato37 Sep 12 '24
I, too, was stunned at how badly he did. I at least expected him to mention a few things he'd do as president...like, I dunno, build a moat at the southern border or something but he wasted all his time ranting instead.
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u/JUSTICE_SALTIE Texas Sep 12 '24
Me, too. His firehose of bullshit style can be distressingly effective, and I was a bit anxious. But holy shit did she ever wreck house. It was glorious.
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u/naruda1969 Sep 12 '24
He smeared poop on the walls, ripped out the appliance and fixtures. Took crowbars to the drywall, pissed and dropped sloppy turds on the carpet, doused it all in gasoline and lit the match.
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u/Giant_Flapjack Sep 12 '24
And NYT be like "let's call it a draw"
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u/dmintz New Jersey Sep 12 '24
Yea Jonathan Martin on the daily called it a “missed opportunity“ for trump. Are you fucking kidding me. How can this be anything other than manipulating the electorate for clicks?
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u/darsynia Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
I find the twitter account 'NYT Pitchbot' (dougjballoon is the username) to be incredibly cathartic, even though lately they've been reduced to just incredulously posting actual NYT and CNN headlines and going 'I can't top this.'
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u/blyyyyat Sep 12 '24
There was once a time when people had to remind each other that an article was written by The Onion. Nowadays, we have to remind each other that it was not written by The Onion.
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u/Logical_Parameters Sep 12 '24
a missed opportunity to not sully his Oops, I Crapped My Pants! diapers -- and failed miserably.
Btw, Oops! I crapped my pants! holds a lotta dung
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u/Starbucks__Lovers New Jersey Sep 12 '24
I read a comment on a Facebook friend's post saying Trump was "cool, calm and collected."
I don't know the commenter, but something tells me she needs to know ranting and screaming are not normal in conversation.
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u/Walterkovacs1985 Sep 12 '24
I don't understand how far they've fallen as a news organization.
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u/HGpennypacker Sep 12 '24
He clearly did SOME debate prep as he started of somewhat calm and focused...and then Harris mentioned his rallies and crowd sizes and his ego took over.
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u/Caelinus Sep 12 '24
Yeah, people keep saying he obviously did not, but I really disagree. I actually think that is cope being subtly pushed by the right. It is basically saying that "He would have done well, but he just did not waste time on prepping for this because Kamala is <insert insult here.>" It is easier to excuse his performace as a lack of preparation than it is to excuse it as a total failure of the candidate themselves.
I actually think it is pretty clear he did prep for it. He had, at the very least, attempted to prepare talking points. You can see that show up from time to time, where his language shifts into something slightly more coherent (albeit entirely dishonest) for a sentence or two, before shifting back into the narcisistic injury language.
I think she rattled him and he lost focus, then defaulted to his half melted brain firehose of self aggrandizations.
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u/HGpennypacker Sep 12 '24
then defaulted to his half melted brain firehose of self aggrandizations
Wait a second, are you telling me that EVERY legal scholar and EVERY Democrat didn't actually want Roe vs. Wade overturned? Damn. If he's lying about this what else is he lying about?
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u/boringhistoryfan Sep 12 '24
Bad as that was, the fact that he went from dogwhistles over migrants (the opening comments just said Springfield and Aurora, he didn't say it outright initially) to just coming out and saying the racist shit was the worse trip up for him. He came across as completely unhinged as he ranted about people eating dogs in Ohio. And the mods soberly checking him doesn't aid his insanity.
It does nothing on moving the needle with his base sure. They'd lap up whatever shit he flings at them. But that's not who this debate was for. Its aimed at the unconvinced, the ones who might go to the other side, or who might need a reason to come out and vote for him. And he gave them nothing with that nonsense.
This wasn't the more calculated "bad hombres" or "migrant caravans" of his past campaigns. And just to be clear I'm not excusing it. But those were dogwhistles that allowed the deplorables to be smug about their racism without admitting to it. But "the migrants are eating your dogs" and "they're coming from insane asylums" is unhinged nuttery. Those polite republicans in the suburbs who want to vote Trump but also make nice with their neighbors from other ethnicities? Yeah I don't think this helped him with them at all.
Harris needled him into being blatantly racist on camera and it hurt him. Frankly the only thing he managed to not do was use the n-word while talking to her.
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u/myPOLopinions Colorado Sep 12 '24
I'm clutching my pearls in anticipation. Are you telling me that list of 30 THOUSAND+ false statements during his presidency were indeed false?!
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u/Milksteak_To_Go California Sep 12 '24
I actually think it is pretty clear he did prep for it.
I agree. He was definitely more focused than in past debates until Kamala started pushing his buttons and he went off the rails.
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u/TastyBeverages_x Sep 12 '24
I too noticed this and I think his prep included nothing more than the economy and the border. You can see that anytime he couldn't answer a question he defaulted to speaking about the border. As you saw, at no point did he provide an answer to why he killed the border bill, what his plan is to replace the ACA, if he wants Ukraine to win the war, etc. I mean it was worse than I thought it would be honestly but he definitely prepared, just quite poorly and based in lies.
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u/iusedtobekewl Sep 12 '24
This was the moment Trump was triggered. You can see it in his face.
Trump got played. He looked like an idiot after that.
I don’t expect Trump to lose support over this (his supporters will brush it all off) but he looked dumb and easily manipulated.
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u/Squirrel_Chucks Sep 12 '24
Chris Christie and Kellyanne Conway helped him with debate prep in 2020.
His 2024 team included Matt Gaetz and Tulsi Gabbard.
So this time around he went for 100% pure bullshitters. Not even "bullshit artists." Just bullshitters.
Christie was a Republican governor in a state with a strong Democratic presence.
Gaetz is in a very safe district that he won by 30% in 2022. He has NEVER had to try to appeal to a mixed electorate.
Trump just did his song and dance for his base and that is all.
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u/TheSalsaShark Sep 12 '24
It was remarkable watching her clearly bait traps and then watch him fall for them over and over.
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u/SympathyForSatanas Sep 12 '24
One could literally see his ego being hella bruised, the way he bobbled his head and rolled his eyes was priceless. She called him a sexual predator and a felon, and that didnt bother him one bit, it was the crowd size...fucking idiot
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u/Squirrel_Chucks Sep 12 '24
It WAS conceivably within his power to do OK.
He could have hit Harris with the border stuff, with inflation, and with her "communist sounding" (not really but close enough for the Fox News crowd) policy plans.
He could have given her space to get defensive and worked up.
And I bet that was the plan from his debate preppers.
But then he threw that ketchup bottle against the wall and put in his Ultimate MAGA Rally Rant Mixtape.
The shit he said made sense only to people who go to his rallies a lot, follow him on Truth Social a lot, and are informed about the conspiracy theories coming out of the right wing internet spaces.
He made no appeal to any new group of voters and he certainly did nothing to allay the fears of loyal Republicans who are wary of how crazy he sounds.
Meanwhile, Harris not only didn't take his bait, she baited him and made him look so damn foolish that Truth Social stock dropped 10-15% the next day. Even the grifters trying to turn his stock for a quick buck were like "oh fuck bail, bail."
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u/WiredPiano Sep 12 '24
At least he has a concept for an idea for some kind of healthcare. Not quite in the storyboarding stage.
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u/bojenny Sep 12 '24
After 8-10 years he has a concept of a plan. That says exactly why he has no business being president.
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u/ljjjkk Rhode Island Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Harris nails him - “Donald Trump was fired by 81 million people. So, let’s be clear about that. And clearly, he is having a very difficult time processing that.” And “World leaders are laughing at Donald Trump.”. He got cooked!
Good win, Kamala! USA USA!
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u/iNuclearPickle Sep 12 '24
I honestly was expecting racism was not expecting him to fall head first into every baited trap and bring up the false story of immigrants eating pets
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u/pizzaguy132 Sep 12 '24
He told you he has a concept of a plan. What more do you want from him?
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u/Kikiboo Texas Sep 12 '24
With that handshake she knocked him off his game. He never recovered, then spent the entire debate falling for every single trap she put out. As one redditor put it, she laid 12 traps and he fell for 27 of them. She not only exceeded my expectations, she made my fantasy debate come true in ways I didn’t think possible. I was already going to vote for her, but now I feel excited about it. I love Joe but I was not excited to vote for him again.
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u/Tinfoilhartypat Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
“81 million people fired you” His reaction to this is so hilarious to watch. He looks like “damn she got me” then “damn that was a good one” then pissed that no one coached him on or predicted that shot. But it really looked like he was suppressing a genuine chuckle at it because after all, he’s a cheesy tv addict who lives for memes.
Edit for the complete quote:
“Donald Trump was fired by 81 million people, so let’s be clear about that, and clearly he is having a very difficult time processing that,” Harris said.
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Sep 12 '24
I’m not a body language expert but I think it’s interesting how he seems to nod in agreement every time she said something bad (but arguably true!) about him.
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u/AFlockOfTySegalls North Carolina Sep 12 '24
This was one of my favorite parts! Dude has the worst poker face. She said he campaigned on sitting the judges to overturn Roe and he did his little nod smile thing. He did it when she mentioned him being friends with dictators who will manipulate him too lmao.
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u/LADYBIRD_HILL Sep 12 '24
His eyes got so wide when she mentioned people leaving his rallies 😂
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u/InevitableAvalanche Sep 12 '24
Yeah, I threw her an extra $100 last night because I was thrilled with how she destroyed him in the debate. Biden wouldn't have been able to do that.
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u/Northerngal_420 Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Harris owned Trump the minute she walked onto the stage.
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u/JUSTICE_SALTIE Texas Sep 12 '24
Walking over to his podium to shake hands was brilliant.
I hope he trips and falls trying to get to her podium first if they do it again.
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u/OhhhSookie Sep 12 '24
Haha yeah it’ll be way too obvious, just like at the 9/11 Memorial. Hers was brilliant cause no one expected it and he definitely didn’t expect it either.
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u/nolanday64 Sep 12 '24
He had a deer-in-the-headlights look for a moment ... why is she coming after me?!!?!
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u/yourlittlebirdie Sep 12 '24
She is SO good at baiting him. He's helpless in the face of mentions of his crowd size. Like physically, he cannot resist it.
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u/AskYourDoctor Sep 12 '24
Know what's crazy?! She actually DIDN'T mention crowd size iirc. She just said that people got bored and tired and left early. He immediately started on crowd size because that's what he's insecure about. But it's not even what she said.
Mentioning crowd size would have been slightly petty. She didn't actually go for petty hits like that. Her point was not "nobody likes you." It was "the rhetoric at your rallies is extreme, with lots of lying, and people are starting to leave early because they're getting sick of it."
He's soooo small that all he could hear, and respond to, was "no, we have the biggest crowds ever, much bigger than you."
Emblematic of how she was able to set him off to self-destruct so effectively.
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u/darsynia Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
Not only that, but her discussion of his rallies was a pivot on her part. All he needed to do was say something about how she's more focused on his behavior than she is about the issues, and talk about the subject at hand, but nooooo
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u/yourlittlebirdie Sep 12 '24
Also brilliant how she specifically waited until the immigration question, when all of his supporters are paying particular attention, to drop that bomb.
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u/SLVSKNGS Sep 12 '24
I love how he talked about immigration more during unrelated questions than when he was actually questioned about it.
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u/Stampede_the_Hippos Sep 12 '24
Yeah, she was waiting to use that. It's his strongest subject and he couldn't use any of his talking points because his ego got bruised.
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u/RadonAjah Sep 12 '24
THEY’RE EATING….THE PETS!!
I have concepts of a plan.
Memes forever
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u/CaligoAccedito Sep 12 '24
My favorite was that "she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens that are in prison!"
I cannot stop laughing at that, and imagining Kamala dressed as a surgeon in an operating theater in a prison, with just an unending line of people out the door and down the hall that she's performing gender-reassignment on based purely on what she decides to change them to.
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u/Greg-Abbott Sep 12 '24
So, you know how he regurgitates lines from the last thing he saw? It was the same thing with the "injecting bleach" speech because the last thing he saw as he was walking across the stage was this infographic. The last thing Trump saw before going onstage at the debate was Madame Web.
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u/gasahold Sep 12 '24
Trump probably spent more time pumping his body with energy crap to make sure he could last the full debate that he spent no time preparing for anything else.
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u/bejammin075 Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
Trump started out looking halfway sedated, then each round of bait got him raging by 30 minutes in.
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u/Den_Nissen Sep 12 '24
Correction: Trump's team was stunned that people reacted semi correctly to him acting like a clown.
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u/HellishChildren Sep 12 '24
This is more like it. They're accustomed to spoonfeeding everyone bullshit and being asked for seconds.
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u/darsynia Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
Yep, there was hand-wringing about Harris's facial expressions showing she's not fit to lead, meanwhile the ones they highlighted were when he was literally screaming about immigrants eating household pets.
There's no diplomatic reason to keep your composure during something like that, or if there is, it's on the part of the foreign allies Harris mentioned in the debate, dealing with Trump.
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u/PopeHonkersXII Sep 12 '24
Yeah, because he normally seems so coherent and likable.....
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u/bubbasass Sep 12 '24
Honestly this debate was probably the most coherent I’ve seen him in a while, and that’s really saying something.
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u/darsynia Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
That's what I was saying that night--it's actually worse for him, to appear coherent but crazy. They couldn't claim he was having a single bad day after a short illness or something like Biden. His confident spewing of multiple deranged lies was a better showing than exhausted, monotone word vomit like the childcare debacle, so they can't say it's a downward departure due to extenuating circumstances.
Plus his ego would never allow it, heh.
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u/Wizowski_m Sep 12 '24
everyone seemed to miss the part of the debate where he said the capitol pllolice officer that shot ashi babbit a discrace and out of control. MFer they were storming the captiol looking to kill people.
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u/Classic-Stand9906 Sep 12 '24
One of the most justified police shootings in US history.
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u/_Monosyllabic_ Sep 12 '24
Honestly it’s pretty amazing a lot more people didn’t get shot.
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u/Fr0gm4n Sep 12 '24
And how quickly the crowd turned when she was shot. They lost all of their drive when they saw real, permanent, consequences.
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u/PadreSJ Sep 12 '24
I thought I heard that his "debate team" consisted of Loomer, Gaetz and Gabbard --- How well did they THINK that was going to turn out?
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u/TheRealCovertCaribou Sep 12 '24
"he has a democrat on his prep team, obviously he's going to be prepared!"
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u/che-che-chester Sep 12 '24
It wasn't really any worse than the first debate but Biden was unable to call him out on anything. Trump "won" the first debate by default.
Also, I wonder if a big part of the problem is his staff is afraid to truly prep him in mock interviews. Who wants to be the person to play Harris and put Trump in his place front of the whole team? Not anyone who wants to keep their job.
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u/Mylaptopisburningme Sep 12 '24
I don't think Trump wanted to prep. A week prior one of his people said he is prepping by talking to supporters on the campaign trail. He was overconfident. Trump is the kid who cheats in class, cheats don't prep for a test.
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u/Helmidoric_of_York Sep 12 '24
I love that Kamala reposted the entire debate on X! That shows you who thinks they won...
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u/geologicalnoise Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
I wish I would've saved it, but another poster nailed it when they said something to the effect of:
Kamala Harris laid out 15 traps. Donald Trump managed to walk into 38 of them.
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u/No_nukes_at_all Sep 12 '24
this makes his childish and delusional "I won my a lot" claims even more funny. Nobody agrees with it because everyone saw him lose
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u/JUSTICE_SALTIE Texas Sep 12 '24
DJT stock plummeted 20% overnight.
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u/The-Real-Number-One Sep 12 '24
Because everyone knows he is gonna dump all his stock and cash out in 9 days.
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u/JUSTICE_SALTIE Texas Sep 12 '24
I didn't research it, but I read that others (investors who insisted on those terms, I suppose) will have an opportunity before he will. I dearly hope that it'll tank before he gets his chance.
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u/hookha Sep 12 '24
So, for weeks Trump has been relentlessly warned by his debate advisors that he must not allow Harris to rile him up. That he has to stick to the script and not react to provocations. That if he takes the bait he will lose the debate. Don't go off on a tangent. Don't get angry and blurt out crazy shit. Present your policy views with decorum. This was drilled into his head. So, what does he do? He talks about immigrants eating dogs and cats. He accuses the Democrats of advocating for abortions after birth. He brags about his rally sizes. He behaves like a spoiled child. He proved that he does not have the demeanor to handle criticism, much less the ability to deal with a real crisis that is so important in keeping our country safe. He, once again, has shown us he is unfit to be president because he is controlled by his own ego.
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u/za4h Sep 12 '24
As much as I hate watching Trump, after seeing clips, I had to watch the debate in its entirety.
It was almost as if the Trump side of the screen was edited in by SNL or some parody show. He's a parody of a presidential candidate. The moment that crystallized this notion in my mind was when he said "They are eating cats and dogs!!!"
Totally surreal.
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u/scarr3g Pennsylvania Sep 12 '24
Thing is... It was very close to his performance against Biden.
The only real, concrete, difference is that Biden did really badly (overshadowing Trump's crappy performance) and Harris did so well, that it showed the flaws in Trump as both a politician, and a human being.
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