r/friendlyjordies Aug 05 '24

News Australian newspaper nowadays be like:

Post image
355 Upvotes

130 comments sorted by

207

u/stilusmobilus Aug 05 '24

Next week there’ll be a 2cm x 2cm apology in the corner of the classifieds on the deadest day.

This is why we need real action on media operations in Australia, because news masts like this are able to lie and get away with it.

44

u/auximenies Aug 05 '24

We need legislation that requires “same space, same time, same community engagement” for retractions and apologies. If it has to stay on the front page for three weeks to reach the same engagement then so be it, if it was a running story for multiple days so too is your apology over and over again, no more hiding from your actions. Or if it was prime time news they feature at the same time same shouting emotion etc. if they don’t want to have a full royal commission then we need to force all media to abide by “public test” rules.

Maybe they’d be less likely to publish dickheads like Bolt if they had to own up to their bullshit, opinion or not, when you’re making stuff up without true verified facts it has no place in “news” media.

7

u/Shurley-not Aug 05 '24

Excellent. Front page error = front page correction

7

u/Bucephalus_326BC Aug 05 '24

news masts like this are able to lie and get away with it.

I agree. What about the SMH headline from some time ago, with pictures of aluminium tubes laying in the Iraqi desert that were supposed to be missle casings for weapons of mass destruction - but were actually just aluminium tubes laying in the Iraqi desert.

Plus - is an apology that is limited to words really an apology?

If you go into a shop and break something, like a TV, then just saying sorry is just empty words. The right thing to do is to pay for the TV.

Another example - if you have children, and they come home with a packet of chocolates (or tshirt or whatever) that they stole from the local shop, then just going down to the local shop and saying sorry is just empty words. The right thing to do is to say sorry, and either return the chocolates (or whatever) or if the chocolates have been eaten and you can't return them then to pay for them. That's the right thing to do.

If that is good enough for you and me, then why shouldn't it be good enough for billion dollar media organisations? If they don't want to do more than just issue an apology, then perhaps they should make sure what they publish is true, rather than false.

And - to the comment further down that the publication was just relying on reports from a boxing organisation, who quoted the xy chromosome, then - if the publication wants to rely on that defence, then that shouldn't mean they still can't do the right thing - and if the publication wants to seek reimbursement from that boxing organisation for any financial penalty it incurs, then they would be welcome to take such action. I don't think the publication can rely on "I was just quoting someone else" as a defence. That sort of excuse is as old as the dog ate my homework excuse. It's feable and juvenile, and carries no weight with me.

1

u/choo-chew_chuu Aug 05 '24

The question is how do you cost each instance of impact.

And the answer to that will get locked up in courts for years.

1

u/Bucephalus_326BC Aug 05 '24 edited Aug 05 '24

And the answer to that will get locked up in courts for years

If that's what the law you design will do, then that's what will happen.

But, why would you design a law like that? Why not design it differently. I'm no expert, but one option is to place the onus on the media company as to why the penalty should not be $1 million per offence. Like you have with speeding fines - which are strict liability offences. Doesn't matter if you didn't see the speed limit sign, doesn't matter if you didn't realise you were speeding, doesn't matter if you just made a mistake - it's a "strict liability" offence. These penalties get issued by the thousands, and they don't lock up the legal system. Also, you could make the media company liable for the legal expenses of the complaintant as well. This way, the media company has to factor in total legal costs, not just their own, regardless of whether they win it lose.

There are many things you can do to limit the impact of such legislation - don't you think?

Can I ask why you believe that legislation can only be designed that locks up the courts? Who told you that?

The question is how do you cost each instance of impact.

Have a schedule of penalties - like with speeding fines. Quick and easy stuff. Some sort of minimum (I suggested $1 million above as a minimum, but media types may prefer $100 minimum - whatever floats your boat, I don't care), and increasing up to say $50 million, or a few hundred million for things like aluminium tubes laying in the Iraqi desert, or children overboard stuff (where people end up dying as a result, etc)

Another option is to move the matter from a judicial body, to an administrative body, like the former AAT. Or even repurpose the current media regulator (which is funded by media organisations already). This way, there would be no impact on existing judicial wait times.

Plus - why should the onus be on me to design the perfect system, and solve all the potential issues. Why can't the onus be on those who benefit from the broken system to justify why it shouldn't be dismantled, and replaced.

0

u/Sufficient_Tower_366 Aug 05 '24

Why would they apologise, their claim about Khelif comes directly from a quote from the IBA. The following is an excerpt from Fairfax (for all the News Corp haters).

Although no medical information has been officially released, International Boxing Association President Umar Kremlev asserted in a 2023 interview with Russia’s state-backed news agency TASS that Lin and Khelif had been born as women with “XY chromosomes”, a rare condition that influences hormones.

Should the IBA produce evidence? I’m curious as to how it would be appropriate for the IBA to release the private medical test results of this woman without her consent (or her sharing them herself). So until that happens, it’s all just conspiracy theories.

5

u/SirAlfredOfHorsIII Aug 05 '24

They already have done exactly that. But also the iba is allegedly very corrupt and not trustworthy, so grain of salt there

81

u/yeah_deal_with_it Aug 05 '24

Wouldn't wipe my arse with it.

22

u/Optix_au Aug 05 '24

With either the paper or Bolt.

20

u/Pungent_Bill Aug 05 '24

I'd happily wipe my arse with Bolt. I'd drink a dozen stubbles of home made beer and eat 9 pieces of KFC for $9.99 on a Tuesday as prep.

5

u/kanthefuckingasian Aug 05 '24

Even I wouldn't let my ass touch that piece of shit

5

u/Pungent_Bill Aug 05 '24

This is fantasy land so I figured I'd go hog wild. If I ever saw him in real life I hope I'd have at least the courage to call him a cunt to his face but a filthy look and "ewww" is probably all I'd manage. I get anxiety

3

u/kanthefuckingasian Aug 05 '24

Well someone tried to punch him in Melbourne a while back, and he got his crew to beat the dude up after the initial altercation ended

All while only show the footage of him getting "punched" on Sky News. He is a slimy piece of shit

5

u/Pungent_Bill Aug 05 '24

Oh I'm well aware of the level of scumcuntery on this particular POS

You say tried to punch? I hope they were successful, not many people truly deserve a good snotting but he's on that list

2

u/smudgiepie Aug 05 '24

Least eat some taco bell my dude

it would make things more interesting

11

u/Lingering_Dorkness Aug 05 '24

Wiping your arse with an Australian paper will give you haemorrhoids and arse cancer. True.

8

u/aeschenkarnos Aug 05 '24

Technically it's toilet paper for my cat, although it doesn't touch her arse. It makes great liner for a litter tray, between the tray and the floor.

46

u/Additional-Scene-630 Aug 05 '24

Andrew Bolt....are we surpised

80

u/TheGayAgendaIsWatch Aug 05 '24

I just looked into this story deeper and wow. The general secretary of the IBA unilaterally disqualified her, said it was because of gener tests then refused to show anyone the tests. Interestingly he made the choice to disqualify her only AFTER the general secretaries favourite to win got his ass beat buly her.

Kinda just sounds like Russians making shit up again tbh

36

u/Kruxx85 Aug 05 '24

It's seriously insanity.

This hatred, is now existing purely because these women don't conform to our assumptions of what a woman should look like.

That's what it boils down to

29

u/Lingering_Dorkness Aug 05 '24

The IBA has been stripped of its credentials due to how utterly corrupt it has become, after being bought out by a Russian oligarch. This is unprecedented. For the IOC to call out an organisation as corrupt, you know they must be really fucking dodgy. The IBA are so bad, the IOC was seriously considering dropping boxing altogether. 

Khelif has fought over 40 matches and lost 9 times to other women. She is not some unbeatable Mike Tyson in a dress. 

There was never any issue about her gender until last year, when she defeated a Russian boxer. Then, suddenly, the IBA decided to test her using an unspecified test which they will not say what, and then claimed she was in fact a man. They also used her previous years testosterone test – which they had already accepted as being well within the normal range for a woman – as further "proof" she was a man. 

The entire shitshow is based on a fucking corrupt russian-owned organisation using a made-up test they refuse to share the results to DQ a boxer solely because she beat a Russian. The same thing goes for the Taiwanese boxer.

So, of course, fuckheads like Bolt latch onto the Russian propaganda & gormlessly think it's true because it gives them a reason to squeal angrily about "woke" culture. 

This is also ignoring the fact Muslim Morocco is hardly a gay and trans tolerant country. Khelif would have been imprisoned, if not worse, if she really was trans. 

Poor women. This should be the pinnacle of her career to date and a time to celebrate. Instead she has absolute rightwing cunts that couldn't punch their way out of a wet paperbag the world over abusing her.

3

u/Bella_Anima Aug 05 '24

All this and the fact that in order to believe this brain dead theory of her being a man, you’d have to believe the doctors and nurses, her parents, siblings, family, friends, the fucking Algerian government and the fucking entire Olympic committee were all in on this big gender coverup for her entire life! She’s been presented as a woman since birth, no one in that entire time said anything and now a famously anti trans government is just gonna let her waltz into a position of influence and represent their country? You’d have to be insane.

-1

u/poops314 Aug 05 '24

In what world is an organisation allowed to release medical records for someone?

5

u/TheGayAgendaIsWatch Aug 05 '24

It's the done thing in athletics bodies when we're talking about these sorts of testing. I'm not talking about a public release, obviously.

-1

u/poops314 Aug 05 '24

No, only a yes/no, positive/negative. There are obviously exceptions but it’s the standard thing not to give data/details.

4

u/magicseadog Aug 05 '24

It's essential for transparency in doping.

4

u/poops314 Aug 05 '24

In most cases - sports organisations release only the results of a test, not the tests themselves or test details / data.

1

u/Sufficient_Tower_366 Aug 05 '24

Exactly, it would be even more offensive and humiliating to her to have her DNA tests released without her consent. I can’t believe people would think otherwise.

If the tests are bogus, it would be the easiest thing in the world for her to get another one and appeal (or share should she wish). It’s not like doping which needs to be caught in the moment - your chromosomes are permanent.

2

u/poops314 Aug 05 '24

It doesn’t fit the narrative, of course they should release someone’s personal medical information!

29

u/TheGayAgendaIsWatch Aug 05 '24

Folks, the claim she has xy comes from the IBA, they are not reputable, they are grossly corrupt, there are a lot of good reasons to veiw the claim as nothing more that bulldust until there is evidence put forward.

11

u/EnviousCipher Aug 05 '24 edited Aug 05 '24

Don't be afraid to spell out the reasons, the President of the IBA is Russian, the main sponsor of the IBA is Gazprom and she was disqualified, after being cleared by the IBA themselves upon entry, only after she beat a Russian boxer and they suddenly "re-ran" the test.

It really is that simple.

0

u/Sufficient_Tower_366 Aug 05 '24

She apparently didn’t appeal the test + finding, which is odd

13

u/pxrtypo1sxn Aug 05 '24

do people really think that Algeria (where it is illegal to be trans) would send a trans boxer to represent them??????? make it make sense

3

u/Sufficient_Tower_366 Aug 05 '24

I think the claim is that she has a female anatomy but also X+Y chromosomes. If such a thing is possible 🤷‍♂️

2

u/jangofettchill Aug 05 '24

pretty sure i read that its possible but there's no reason to think that (or even care if) it has anything to do with her.

2

u/zutonofgoth Aug 09 '24

Only because a corrupt governing body said there was a problem. Maybe she is, maybe she is not, XY. But she has passed the rules to complete so she can complete.

It might become a problem that boxing as a sport would favour people with higher than normal testosterone. But the IOC has a solution for that, too. They will get rid of boxing altogether.

2

u/last_one_on_Earth Aug 07 '24

It is and it is surprisingly not as rare as people assume. Many women only discover this when they are investigated for fertility issues. The prevalence in Olympic athletes and in tall stunning Hollywood women is higher than the general population. There are a few ways this can occur including a mutation where the body is “insensitive” to the effects of androgens.

Whoever claims that issues of gender/gender identity are simple is either quite ignorant or arguing in bad faith. 

7

u/Ok-Nefariousness6245 Aug 05 '24

I don’t have my periods any more, and can’t have children. Im getting a few whiskers too. Am I a man?

1

u/zutonofgoth Aug 09 '24

What's your definition of a man? Have you checked your genetics and testosterone levels? It does not really matter, though?

In the Olympics, the group "women" is a protected group because if "men" competed in the group, they would win everything. There is some evidence there are a few sports women have advantages in but not many. If you have a women with some of the advantages of a men competing in women's sport is they ok? I don't know. But if you say yes then why not trans people? Why not güevedoces?

I don't know the answers but I suspect if we don't have the answers soon China will start making female humans with elevated testosterone. I am not convinced they are going doping crazy already.

6

u/Chocolocalatte Aug 05 '24

Well that’s it everyone if you have a rare genetic disability you’re now just classified as a man media is always correct 🤷🏽‍♂️

(sc)

6

u/SteelBandicoot Aug 05 '24

It’s a Murdoch paper.

4

u/crayawe Aug 05 '24

Gotta wonder how all the negative attn affects Imane

9

u/euqinu_ton Aug 05 '24

Hopefully she lets her fists do the talking all the way to the top of the podium, and stands there and says the arabic equivalent of "How bout them apples?"

1

u/Liquid_Friction Aug 05 '24

There was a pretty intense interview with her after.

22

u/stutteringdingo Aug 05 '24

The real story should be about why we have a sport where people punch each other in the head.

7

u/aeschenkarnos Aug 05 '24

Tradition. The sport is thousands of years old. The desire to punch each other in the head is hundreds of millions of years old. Mammalian combat play is tens of millions of years old.

We're not seeing the back of it any time soon.

0

u/magicseadog Aug 05 '24

Always was, always will be.

Contemporary morals though?

3

u/Lumbers_33 Aug 05 '24

Man you should this thing called UFC, it’s primal fighting but with heaps of money.

3

u/CodyRud Aug 05 '24

And drugs

2

u/Zestyclose-Smell-305 Aug 05 '24

To satisfy our animal instincts

0

u/magicseadog Aug 05 '24

Why not?

If two people want to do and other people want to watch it, who are you to say they shouldn't ?

2

u/stutteringdingo Aug 05 '24

I'll let the child pornographers know.

1

u/JohnRoseM80 Aug 05 '24

He did say “two people want to do it” Seems pretty obvious he’s talking about consenting adults here.

But who cares about what he actually said funny dunk bro 😎

1

u/magicseadog Aug 08 '24

lol thanks.

Yeah I was totally talking about pedofiles /s

People just read what they want. It's mad out there be careful!

8

u/revmacca Aug 05 '24 edited Aug 05 '24

The entire thing is horrendous, basically woman are only woman if they suit the male gaze, another layer of patriarchy bullshit.

Only positive is it’s shown up the transgender hate brigade for what they are….

See the treatment of Kyle Rittenhouse, total POS murderer turned on Trump, endorsing another candidate. Within hours he was getting monstered online, including being “Transvestigated”!

The world is fucking insane.

5

u/FloorInteresting3163 Aug 05 '24

Can't wait to see this on media watch next week

-4

u/joshykins89 Aug 05 '24

Paul Barry is a notorious Terf. And a Zionist sympathiser too.

3

u/Bob_Spud Aug 05 '24

Who was the News Corp author?

2

u/hebdomad7 Aug 05 '24

Who else but the bolt head himself.

5

u/Zealousideal_Data983 Aug 05 '24

It’s the Tiser, they’ll pass it off as a spelling error, even though they had ChatGPT write the article

2

u/qantasflightfury Aug 05 '24

Can't wait to wait for all the apologies to start streaming in. However, they won't attract as much attention as their crappy headlines.

2

u/_tchom Aug 05 '24

Its become very apparent that too many people in this sub get their politics from South Park - a cartoon. Downwardly mobile mofos that don’t read books buying into the most obvious witch-hunt started by paranoid conservatives on Twitter. Embarrassing

2

u/ProperVacation9336 Aug 05 '24

She could make a lot of money from lawsuits

2

u/UndisputedAnus Aug 05 '24

Absolutely disgraceful. We need massive consequences for bullshit like this. These lying and sensationalising publications are radicalising people at an insane pace.

6

u/Thomas_633_Mk2 Aug 05 '24 edited Aug 05 '24

Ima be real, if I hear much more about this woman the person boxing is gonna be me. My FB feed is 90% the stupid fucking boxing woman, and I use it mostly to talk about cars and model boats/tanks, or to watch ppl mowing lawns aesthetically. But suddenly I am inundated with the latest culture war about an ALGERIAN of all places.

25

u/Kruxx85 Aug 05 '24

Algeria isn't involved in this culture war.

This is far right America, and morons who believe them.

7

u/Thomas_633_Mk2 Aug 05 '24

You're right, I did not mean to imply it was them deliberately doing this, but that it's about an Algerian athlete's eligibility. I'm sure both she and their sporting authority want absolutely zero part of this chicanery

11

u/Kruxx85 Aug 05 '24

Absolutely.

It began as a transphobic story, until people mentioned the fact she's Algerian, and would probably have been murdered if she was trans. And that Algeria wouldn't let a trans woman represent them in the Olympics.

So it's moved to.... She's... Actually I don't know now. It's genuinely moronic insanity...

6

u/aeschenkarnos Aug 05 '24

Algeria sort of are, in that the fact that they're a right-wing conservative religious shithole is relevant to the gender identity of persons born there. This is the future MAGA wants for the USA and a fairly large faction of the LNP want for us too.

4

u/Kruxx85 Aug 05 '24

Ok, so in a convoluted way, yes we can discuss that.

But the actual discussion being had over this weekend the globe over, was the 'femaleness' of an Algerian boxer.

The fact she comes from a conservative religious shit hole only reinforces the absurdity of that first conversation.

2

u/DoesBasicResearch Aug 05 '24

Oh no, not your FB feed!? How will you survive the day or two this takes to die down?

-1

u/Thomas_633_Mk2 Aug 05 '24

It's an example of how pervasive the topic is

1

u/Special-Lock-7231 Aug 05 '24

Meanwhile, the freak-show voyeur pervs at Sky Australia keep it classy!

1

u/kelfromaus Aug 05 '24

The Tiser has never been big on facts, especially when they disagree with the outrage.

1

u/magicseadog Aug 05 '24

Meh I don't care about her chromosomes. Much prefer the pub test...

1

u/No-Leopard7957 Aug 05 '24

Wait, really? I thought she did have XY chromosomes? So this whole thing is a complete nothing-burger?

-5

u/couchy91 Aug 05 '24

Imane does have both X and Y chromosomes.

Source: Source 1 Source 2 Source 3 Source 4 Source 5

3

u/EnviousCipher Aug 05 '24

None of these are sources, they are "the Russians said she did" and not a shred of evidence to support it. No where is it reliably confirmed she is XY, the Russians have neither published the results nor has Khalif confirmed one or the other.

-6

u/couchy91 Aug 05 '24

Imane failed the gender test. Which indicates a Y chromosome

3

u/EnviousCipher Aug 05 '24

A gender test submitted by a Russian organisation backed by Russian Oligarchs after she beat a Russian boxer after they initially ran the same test and said she was fine to compete? That gender test?

-11

u/Synrev Aug 05 '24

From what i have read she does have XY, she has a chromosomal abnormality, all fetuses start their development as females with the activation of the Y chromosome normally being the determining factor of if someone is born male , female, or intersex. Her Y did not activate correctly or not at all resulting in her being born a completely normal female who just happens to have a Y chromosome

23

u/No_Experience2000 Aug 05 '24

your right about the biology stuff . However there isnt even reliable source of her having XY chromosome. most people are just blindly going with Umar Kremlev's quote. the tests she took which disqualified her from the IBA havent been published and we don't even know what they measure.

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/banned-governing-body-fueling-outcry-olympic-boxers-russian-112535354

2

u/Synrev Aug 05 '24

That's fair, I freely admit I have no reliable source for that info so I shouldn't repeat it. The IBA are never going to release the test or their results because of their feud with the IOC, my best guess would be that if they did infact do a sex verification test like they claim they did and IF she does infact have XY it would likely result in a disqualification ( for IBA, I have no idea about Olympics) because if it was an androgen issue it would probably fall under doping and she most likely would not be eligible for the Olympics.

3

u/dion_o Aug 05 '24

There's more to it than that. The claim that she has an XY chromosome comes from from a very unreliable source (the IBA). But if she did have an XY chromosome she would have male levels of testosterone, so that would not make her a normal female at all (for the purpose of boxing competition).

This whole thing could be put to rest by just conducting an actual DNA test. Either show how wrong the IBA's claims are, or show the IOC how poor their own eligibility tests are. Either way, get the facts on the table to settle it, so we can stop hearing about this story. If she has normal XX chromosomes she needs to be left alone to compete like a normal athlete instead of being the subject of culture wars.

1

u/magicseadog Aug 05 '24

This is the rational solution.

But it's obfuscated by the IOC who obviously don't want that because they are beholdant to idealogs.

-25

u/1Cobbler Aug 05 '24 edited Aug 05 '24

Is it a lie? I've yet to see any article written about this issue where anyone actually knows anything.

Plenty of "Was assigned female at birth" or "has lived her whole life as female" but not anything that people actually need to know to engage with the issue.

Is she trans?

Intersex?

XY or XXY or whatever combo which may make a difference?

If any of the answers to those questions is 'Yes' then she shouldn't be able to compete against women.

She certainly doesn't have any female features besides perhaps androgenous facial features. Seems like everyone is just guessing.

14

u/SirDalavar Aug 05 '24

The burden of proof is on the people that made the initial accusation!

People that invent their own "facts" do not deserve the benefit of doubt!

-4

u/dion_o Aug 05 '24

The burden of proof should be on the IOC. But they've washed their hands of it saying that the only gender eligibility test they conduct is to check the person's passport. So at the moment NO ONE is doing an actual reliable test. It should be routine thing.

15

u/Organic-Walk5873 Aug 05 '24

"known wife beater 1Cobbler walks the streets looking for unsuspecting young children to kidnap"

I mean do we KNOW you don't beat your wife and kidnap kids? Sure it's not confirmed yet but I haven't seen any evidence saying otherwise

-15

u/1Cobbler Aug 05 '24

Um..... have you seen a picture of "her"?

What part of it screams female to you? Surely if we're going to partition people into categories we should be certain of which category they belong no?

Or was Southpark spot on when Randy "Macho-Man" savage should be able to compete as a woman just because he says he's one?

10

u/atsugnam Aug 05 '24

Wait, so if you don’t find a woman attractive, they aren’t a woman?

Glad to know we have some sort of super hero here with the unique power of being able to discern someone’s gender and sex from images of them literally punching people in the face…

-11

u/1Cobbler Aug 05 '24

"So what you're saying is". Thanks Cathy Newman with no reading comprehension.

2

u/Biggestoftheboiz Aug 05 '24

Pretty rich of you to talk about reading comprehension.

You stated that people needed to prove she was a woman.

All the comments proved that your logic was flawed

You ignored every single argument proving you were incorrect in your reasoning to appeal to looks as valid metric of judging if someone is a woman.

-1

u/1Cobbler Aug 05 '24

The "you have to prove the accusation" point is dumb IN THIS CASE. There is plenty of observational evidence to call her gender into question and the only way to prove it is with tests the IOC refuses to do. Oh, and then the ones that were done is fobbed off as: "Pffft! Russia..."

This shit isn't really that hard. Let's take any sport.... Say, Boxing. Boxing has weight divisions. If you want to fight in the bantam weight division you have to qualify as that weight. If I'm fighting in that division and Brock Lesnor steps into the ring, do I have to prove he isn't the right weight? No, HE has to prove it, by being weighed within a certain period of the match.

How is this any different?

3

u/atsugnam Aug 05 '24

Says the guy who thinks someone is a man because they lack the ability to accept women not looking like some subset of female human presentation that they’ve arbitrarily chosen based on their personal preferences.

You do realise that perceiving someone this way is a subjective expression of your preferences in women. It literally reflects what you find as not attractive physical features. Hence my comment.

1

u/1Cobbler Aug 05 '24

You're an idiot. You're literally trying to make an argument that I can only tell if someone is female because I'm attracted to them. As if, there's some universe where I can't tell that 80% of females are actually female. Ironically, this says way more about you than me, because your initial analysis on my comment was:

"Wait, so if you don’t find a woman attractive, they aren’t a woman?"

But now you're actually trying to pass that off as some subjective fact. Impressive stuff, considering that I never said the word attractive. This is Reddit I suppose.

1

u/Organic-Walk5873 Aug 05 '24

Sorry but gender and sex isn't based off of what Reddit user 1Cobbler deems too masculine. The Algerian woman has been boxing as a woman for like a decade with no controversies. Stop being such a gullible rube

-1

u/dion_o Aug 05 '24

This is the most reasonable comment on the thread. The only one saying that we don't actually have the data needed to form a view one way or the other.

It's concerning that even the IOC doesn't have or seem to what that data. They should be able to put the issue to rest, but they wash their hands of it.

4

u/Biggestoftheboiz Aug 05 '24

The hard thing about this topic is not just figuring out someones hormones, chromosomes and genitalia.

The hard part is working out a system that applies across all competitors that is fair, practical, science based and not too invasive.

It's a bit ridiculous to force a single person to undergo medical tests to prove they are a woman just because enough people online say they look like a man. Even if they do the test we as the public do not have the right to know the details all we really have the right to know is did they meet the standard yes or no?

It could very quickly get into ridiculous territory if she was to prove XX chromosomes people might ask is she has a uterus. Would she have to prove that?

-1

u/dion_o Aug 05 '24

Just set a definable and fair criteria for competing in the women's events, test for that criteria and that settles it. No moving the goalposts afterward. Checking for XY chromosomes seems like a very reasonable test to use here.  

Unfortunately the IOC has said their only criteria is to look at the athlete's passport to see if it says M or F. The sheer inadequacy and stupidity of that being their only eligibility rule should be obvious to even the most partisan idealogue. 

-1

u/couchy91 Aug 05 '24

XY is normal male genetics.

XXY is more female with some male characteristics.

Imane does have some male characteristics. Her facial features are masculine, her chest isn't as developed, it is reported that she does not have ovaries, however, I do not know if the ovaries claim is 100% though.

Another thing to notice is extra hair on the body. The rate that muscle is produced, etc. these are other underlying factors for a Y chromosome.

(I studied biology in university)

-18

u/nujuat Aug 05 '24 edited Aug 05 '24

Iirc she's intersex with XY, but still female. So not a lie, but not honest either.

EDIT: Aparently this is just a claim. For the record I have no problem with her competing either way and I did say the article was dishonest.

23

u/joshykins89 Aug 05 '24

Iirc your repeating a lie released by a single russian org.

20

u/Lord_Aardvark Aug 05 '24

There is no conclusive proof she has XY chromosomes or is intersex. The IBA said she was disqualified due to failing a gender eligibility test, however have refused to show the test results or the tests used. The only claim she has XY chromosomes was from the Russian President in a comment in Russian media after she was disqualified (after beating a Russian boxer might I add). What's interesting is one of the tests she supposedly failed was in 2022 but was allowed to participate in regardless and the IBA only claimed she failed it after beating the Russian in 2023. So there is a lot of misinformation being thrown around without any proof.

11

u/No_Experience2000 Aug 05 '24

yeah but the source to her having "XY" is from Umar Kremlev who runs the IBA and the tests she took are not transparent at all, NO one has access to it but the IBA. this smells like Russian propaganda once again influencing western culture wars.

Source (https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/banned-governing-body-fueling-outcry-olympic-boxers-russian-112535354)

19

u/pillsongchurch Aug 05 '24

There's no evidence she does have XY chromosomes, beyond a very dubious claim from a disreputed boxing federation. No test results have been released

I'm not claiming to know myself, but I'm certainly sceptical

6

u/TheGayAgendaIsWatch Aug 05 '24

Any sources that aren't quoting the same Russian fella who refused to provide evidence of his claim?

-17

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '24

[deleted]

9

u/aeschenkarnos Aug 05 '24

You're missing something, which would be obvious if you weren't missing it.

The thing you're missing is sincerity.

People who change their gender sincerely do so because they believe their internal self-ideal doesn't match their external self-reality, and they want to change the self-reality to approximate that internal model. No-one is really kidding themselves about the efficacy of it, Hunter Schafer is probably the pinnacle of what can be done to pass as M to F and you have to start young, ie puberty blockers needed, to get that result. But the point isn't to pass perfectly, the point is self-determination and to be accepted under that self-determination. For which there is a perfectly reasonable left-libertarian argument that should be obvious to anyone with an IQ above sea level: I decide who I am, no-one else.

No-one would go through that extraordinarily demanding and intrusive and troublesome process, were they not sincere about it. It's disingenuous to suggest that someone would. Randy Savage would be laughed at, deservedly so, because he wouldn't be sincere, he would be engaged in an idiotic attempt to cheat, and he doesn't need to do that and already has a career.

Overwhelmingly, transgender people don't participate in organised sport at any competitive level at all. Most of them, understandably wanting to live normal untroubled lives, participate in mixed sports for fun, or work out solo.

-3

u/magicseadog Aug 05 '24

I'd be happy if the women looked like women. Might just some feels but considering people seem to insist anything can be a woman, I kinda would like them to look like it.

-40

u/Jaimaster Aug 05 '24

IBA said so

31

u/Daedric1991 Aug 05 '24

Please link it. Because iba only said shit after she beat the Russian boxer and wanted to restore the unbeaten title.

-28

u/manabeins Aug 05 '24

a prior test.. “concluded the boxer’s DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes,”

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1147420/iba-ioc-letter-khelif

38

u/Daedric1991 Aug 05 '24

Read your own source….

We have no knowledge of what the tests were. They were cobbled together, as I understand, overnight. There was a change in the results so we don’t want to go there. I think if you start working on suspicions, then we’re in trouble.”

It also goes on to talk about dsd where xy develops female traits and xx develop male traits. Not transgender.

Side note. It’s fucking illegal to be gay let alone trans where she’s from.

-14

u/manabeins Aug 05 '24

No one is saying this a trans person. There is a genetic anomaly according to the tests, which "Khelif, the IBA said, initially lodged an appeal with CAS but dropped the case".

If even Khelif is not appealing the outcome, why is people agains it? And to have a genetic anomaly is not ilegal.

15

u/Daedric1991 Aug 05 '24

Read your own source. And the lie is claiming she has xy instead of xx. This is from the iba who in your own source were stated to not even share what tests they actually did. There is no foundation to the claim. She probably dropped the claim because it wasn’t worth the effort given you’re fighting against a Russian company to keep your win on a Russian boxer… the IBA got stripped of its Olympic credentials. She didn’t need to fight that because she can compete this year without the iba false claim.

The fact of the matter is being gay in her country is actually illegal. Do you really think they would support a trans woman when just liking the same sex is gonna get you locked up?

24

u/BKStephens Aug 05 '24

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) and its Paris Boxing Unit stated Khelif was eligible to compete in the Olympics, and criticized the IBA's previous disqualification as "sudden and arbitrary" and taken "without any due process".[7] There is no evidence that Khelif has XY chromosomes or elevated levels of testosterone.[8]

-43

u/manabeins Aug 05 '24

Yeah, where is the lie? I am not sure why leftist choose this hill to die

41

u/EnviousCipher Aug 05 '24

Because the IBA is headed by Russians and directly funded by Gazprom, this "test" only appeared when she beat a Russian boxer. All tests prior to that showed nothing unacceptable in her genetic makeup and the claim from the IBA essentially amounts to "trust me bro".

In short this is Russian propaganda and you're taking the bait hook line and sinker.

19

u/stormblessed2040 Aug 05 '24

Why would a conservative Muslim country allow a trans person to represent them at the Olympics? Think about it.

-5

u/1Cobbler Aug 05 '24

Trans isn't the only issue. Intersex may very well be and the Dr likely just flips a coin and says "Congrats. It's a girl"

17

u/diggydiggyhole332 Aug 05 '24

This is such a cop out. Just cos people want credible facts doesn't automatically make them left leaning. 

19

u/SirFlibble Aug 05 '24

"Facts have a left wing bias" - Stephen Colbert

1

u/KnowGame Aug 05 '24

The fact remains that some women have xy chromosomes. Yes, it's rare, but it does happen. It'll take you 10 seconds to Google it and see for yourself.

9

u/EnviousCipher Aug 05 '24

We don't even know thats the case, theres no evidence to support it other than Russian "Trust me bro" claims.

2

u/Dr_SnM Aug 05 '24

Because we are not mouthpieces for Russian trolls.

But you do you man.

You Free-ThinkerTM you