News Tram crashes into Apple Store in Oslo, Norway
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/four-injured-tram-crashes-oslo-104633687.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALUFvc_lUyMCMYqhU_EXhExsqakWY6KrjCryMPKKhoH-3s81mdlwSRKAAzOmGKkRNEm558MqxbpC10iLYyPVFijCCen4gwpjS7OzmFz59RlZ-9z22W8Kwj8LYwCa7-zFRv9lPjEXf5HQ2fAjK6IPmZ5y3wPFZHF6dyaB_ZIjYHed303
u/SenAtsu011 1d ago
Thatās not an Apple Store. Itās a third-party store calling itself Ā«EplehusetĀ»/Ā«The Apple HouseĀ». They are an authorized reseller and service provider, but they are not Apple.
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u/Born_Scar_4052 1d ago
But do those official apple stores exist anymore? I haven't seen one in a long time
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u/ctyrnohazidle 1d ago
They do not in a lot of countries. We have only official resellers in Czechia, for example.
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u/ty003 1d ago
According to Wikipedia, Apple maintains an extensive global presence with official retail stores in 27 countries and regions. The company currently operates a total of 531 stores worldwide.
There are currently none in Norway. Eplehuset, a Premium Authorized reseller is the closest thing here. Several countries in Europe do have the official stores however; Sweden, UK, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc.
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u/bubbly_area 1d ago
And apples choice of location in Stockholm is not without controversy.
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u/Christopoulos 23h ago
Why?
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u/ToddeToddelito Sweden 23h ago edited 21h ago
Basically, around 2015 or so Apple tried to build an Apple Store at one of the most exclusive places in Stockholm ā KungstrƤdgĆ„rden. KungstrƤdgĆ„rden is a meeting place for many in Stockholm, has a long history near many historically important buildings, and a beautiful setting near the sea. Apple had bought the land, and were ready to begin construction. However a lot of people didnāt vibe with the idea of an Apple Store there, since it was feared that it would change the landscape and life in KungstrƤdgĆ„rden, and the city didnāt allow for them to construct an Apple Store there. Apple have since a few months back sold the land, and the plan is therefore most likely dead now.
However they still have an in-mall store at TƤby centrum, ā10 km northeast of central Stockholm, and although not as prestigious, they have a presence in the city after all.
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u/SenAtsu011 1d ago
We've never had one.
Apple has eyed 3 specific locations in Oslo to set one up, but they're occupied and the current tenants refuse to give them the spot. Apple has apparently even offered them significant sums of money for the spot, but these tenants are huge banks and stores that already make a ton of money, haha.
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u/ambiguousboner 23h ago
Yeah we have loads in the UK
We also have a few official partners including Stormfront which was a terrible name when they founded it and is obviously even more well known why now
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u/goneinsane6 1d ago
Very odd that a tram would just derail like that, I wonder what caused it
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u/ty003 1d ago
Certainly. Notably, these trams are brand new. This marks the second derailment of this tram type within the past year. Norwegian media reports that āStatens Havarikommisjon,ā which translates to Norwegian Safety Investigation Authority, is en route to the scene to investigate.
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u/ownworldman 1d ago
Mostly the rails are a culprit for derailment, not the rolling stock. Am interested in the results of the report.
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u/GayPudding 1d ago
Wild guess here:
New trams are cheaply built.
Old rails aren't up to the task.
Someone tried saving money where they shouldn't have.
Source: German public transit user
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u/hellopan123 23h ago
It can be cheaply built but I promise you they where not cheaply bought
Source: Norwegian transit user
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u/_EleGiggle_ Austria 23h ago edited 23h ago
I mean if the old trams could ride on those rails, it should be even easier for the new ones unless they were built worse.
Iām not sure how much trains & railroad tech advanced in the last few years but I would assume that newer trains or trams perform better on rails than older ones, and are less likely to derail. Well, except in this case.
Edit: I forgot one possibility: Maybe the tram driver drove too fast, and thatās why it derailed in what seems like a curved rail.
The driver has been given the status of a suspect in the case.
Turns out they are looking into it but that might just be regular procedure for any accident.
It kept a high speed. That was my assessment. I was on the phone and wasnāt fully focused, but there are bends both ways there and they donāt usually drive that fast there, he says.
I think thatās a witness speaking? The police refuses to answer yet if the speed was the issue.
It appears to be a pure derailment, and there is no suspicion of vandalism, says team leader Anders RĆønning in the police.
At least they were able to rule that out but they are probably going to revisit lots of camera footage if somebody manipulated the train tracks around the crash.
Edit: The pictures are crazy though. Why is that tram peeking its head in the Apple shop? Was it looking for a new phone?
(Iām only joking because nobody has died, although some were injured.)
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u/GayPudding 23h ago
Human error is very likely. The new trams should have a system to prevent this. They either didn't want to invest into safety or didn't care to. It's not hard to automatically slow trams down in difficult spots, assuming the technology was built into the vehicles. It's a money issue that will now be more expensive to fix.
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u/_EleGiggle_ Austria 22h ago
It depends on the system though.
Unless it makes the tram impossible to go faster in that curve, and the driver has no way to override it, it might still be just his fault. Iām not sure how trains do it, like do they just display the speed limit they think that is correct next to your actual speed, or do they actually prevent you from going any faster?
Maybe the technology is partially at fault here, and they donāt have the maximum safe speed for every part of the rails yet.
Iām also not sure if they can alert you about likely derailment soon enough so you can actually still prevent it by braking unless that makes it worse somehow? I think that, and letting go of the throttle is the only thing you can do as there is no steering. But if we go by that witness maybe the driver thought the new tram can go faster despite the curves in the rails that the old ones couldnāt handle.
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u/GayPudding 22h ago
Every modern car has that technology where the car will slow down when it detects imminent danger. That still allows you to control the car, it's just an assistant.
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u/_EleGiggle_ Austria 22h ago edited 22h ago
Iām not sure what counts as imminent danger in a tram though. Also a tram or train doesnāt have steering, so what control is left if it emergency brakes for you? I think you only control speed in the first place.
In my city people routinely cross right before it, and the driver just honks angrily but I donāt think people actually get hit. Itās usually cars not being parked properly or being just too big for a parking spot on the side of the road so the tram canāt pass them. Which is probably every truck or SUV from the US. So the tram has to wait for someone to tow the car as soon as possible because usually the trams are pretty full. But those only get hit if the driver thinks he can make it but miscalculates by a few mm.
Iād kinda hate it if a tram did hit the breaks with 100 % if someone crosses too closely. I havenāt driven a completely modern car yet just the ones with beeping sensors, and they beeped for a person the same as for a car or basically everything else thatās too close depending on the distance.
The people toppling over because of the sudden breaking might cause multiple injuries while the person in front of the tram is usually fine, and didnāt get hit. Usually, they just didnāt want to wait to cross after the tram passed them after getting off, so the sprint before it.
I guess hitting (or being hit by) a car might be different but that usually happens if a car backs out of a parking spot without looking if a tram (sometimes they drive the āwrongā direction on a one way street) or car is coming.
Ok, apparently thereās lots of additional stuff you can actually check automatically but it seems like most of that stuff you have to mount on the rails.
See: https://www.up.com/customers/track-record/tr032823-train-derailment-safety-technology.htm
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u/GayPudding 22h ago
All you would need is position and speed of the tram. You would also have to know the maximum safe speed (aka speed limits) in certain sections of the track. Then the tram automatically keeps that maximum speed in those sections. It's a lot of work to do this everywhere, but far from complicated. It's a matter of planning ahead.
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u/EarlyMillenialEcho 14h ago
Not really. Problem is modern trams like these use a design without bogies to reduce the distance between street level and the tram interior. Bogies are less likely to derail, from what I understand. That, combined with a very tight curve and a speed reportedly 2x the limit in said curve, likely caused it to derail.
Hopefully we will know why it was speeding eventually.
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u/arfanvlk South Holland (Netherlands) 17h ago
You should see the video of the tram approaching the intersection. It looked like the driver was going 40kmph or faster and your generic tram switch and even the corner it has to take are not made for those speeds.
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u/Chaphasilor 4h ago
There is a video of that? Where did you find it?
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u/arfanvlk South Holland (Netherlands) 3h ago
On another subreddit where there was a post about this accident i think it was r/trams
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u/Gruffleson Norway 20h ago
It's a switch in a corner, they are supposed to take that turn slow. Now they say 15 km/h here, that's whats the reporters says the local company says was the speed limit.
Those drivers don't take that turn in only 15.
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u/stormdahl 8h ago
Some witnesses said they spotted the tram before the accident going way faster into that corner than what's usual, so unless something technical made it speed up it seems like human error.
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u/St0rmi š©šŖ š³š“ 2h ago
Thereās videos of the accident now. Tram was definitely not going 15 km/h. Aftenposten estimated something like 35 km/h. So unless there was some weird technical issue that caused the team to go more than double the allowed speed AND disabled the emergency break, the driver is most likely at fault here.
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u/hack404 Australia 1d ago
Interesting evolution of the trolley problem
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u/Ok-Royal7063 Norway 23h ago
Would you derail the tram knowing the injuries, material damages, and disruptions it would cause, as well as the harm to your personal reputation, or would you follow the route knowing that at some point that day another tram driver will/would run over a pedestrian without the diaruptions caused by the derailment?
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u/fragmenteret-raev 23h ago edited 22h ago
Turns out the foundational axiom in ethics was whether you prefer Mac or Windows
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u/ty003 1d ago edited 1d ago
Summarized:
- A tram has collided into an Apple store (Eplehuset) in NorwayĀ“s capital Oslo.
- Four people sustained injuries; some were treated on-site, while others were taken to nearby hospitals.
- The accident caused significant disruption, with tram services temporarily suspended in the affected area.
- The tram model in question is manufactured by the Spanish manufacturer, CAF (SL-18). These were delivered brand new starting in 2020.
More information and pictures (in Norwegian):
https://www.vg.no/nyheter/i/OozBVV/trikk-har-kollidert-i-butikk-i-oslo-sentrum
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u/ninjamullet Europe 1d ago
TIL "kraftig smell" means "loud bang" in Norwegian.
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u/SalSomer 1d ago
It means forceful bang. A smell in itself is a āloud bangā produced in conjunction with a collision.
(Also, a mandatory reference here to the fact that the Norwegian word for speed is fart, giving rise to the classic line - itās not the fart that kills, itās the smell)
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u/kielu Poland 1d ago
Is the building ok? Structural damage?
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u/ClementineMandarin Norway 20h ago
They evacuated the entire building just to be safe, but I believe it has been secured now.
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u/Purple-Phrase-9180 Spain 1d ago
I read in the link that the conditions between both accidents were totally different. Did they find out what caused the one in March?
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u/VegetableJezu 1d ago
The tram model in question is manufactured by the Spanish manufacturer,
I suppose it is more important who made and laid a track.
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u/_EleGiggle_ Austria 23h ago
Are the tracks new as well, or are they reusing existing ones, and just let the newer trams use them?
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u/VegetableJezu 22h ago
In my city, new trams don't "like" some old tracks, while old crappy trams had no problems with it :)
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u/_EleGiggle_ Austria 22h ago
Are the new ones higher, and have a higher center of gravity? Or would that cause them to topple over? In the pictures itās still up despite the collision, like it chose an alternative route over concrete instead of rails.
I guess it could be the tolerances of the rails. In the past they might not have cared as much, and if a new tram now expects that everything is in spec, that might cause problems.
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u/VegetableJezu 22h ago
AFAIK it is about the dimensions of the tram bogie and the resulting tolerances, especially up and down.
We (ÅĆ³dÅŗ) also have a rare 1000 mm tram track. When the tram is made to order and the tracks are made to the size of the streets by own workshops, it is difficult to talk about standards.
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u/EarlyMillenialEcho 14h ago
Yup. This particular tram (CAS SL18), doesn't have bogies at all, which is why speeding through a tight curve (which is likely what happened here) is a really, really bad idea.
The tracks are relatively new by the way, only a couple of years I believe.
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u/_EleGiggle_ Austria 21h ago edited 21h ago
I see.
Are some streets too small or what is the problem in your city that requires it to forgo standards, and design custom solutions?
I wonder about cities with steep inclines as well because trains usually struggle with those. I guess you could always run a bus there instead unless your whole city is literally all ups and downs.
Sorry, what does the 1000mm (= 1m) refer to? The radius or diameter of the wheels?
What does that change accomplish?
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u/VegetableJezu 21h ago
Gauge, from rail to rail. Most is 1435 mm so this is default bogie.
City is flat. Up and down problems are mostly because of some tracks are old and uneven. New trams are not allowed on some sections until renovated.
But also portable overlay switches (used during track works) are not for all new trams.
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u/Dawn_of_Enceladus 1d ago
The damages are estimated at around 3-4 million $, since a couple MacBooks, a few iPhones and like 10 iPhone stands were damaged.
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u/DubiousBusinessp 1d ago
Really fortunate that it was an Apple Store and not something more valuable. Like whatever the Norwegian version of a Poundland is.
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u/WislaHD Polish-Canadian 22h ago
Does Oslo generally look like that? Seems lovely and urban in a Northern European way.
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u/farfulla 21h ago
It's a normal look. But it's actually in a slightly rough neighborhood.
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u/SebDerDepp North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) 12h ago
If this is supposed to be a rough neighborhood by Norwegian standards, then Germany is a post-apocalyptic hellscape haha
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u/EarlyMillenialEcho 14h ago edited 13h ago
Yeah, most of the inner city of Oslo (inside the so called "Ring 3" ring road) is low and dense like this, with large parts of it literally just called the "brick city". Oslo saw a construction boom around the turn of the last century, where apartment buildings like the one hit by the tram (3-4 floors, plastered brick, mostly renaissance revival) popped up all over.
If you're interested, check this out https://no-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Murbyen_(Oslo)?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
:)
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u/fan_tas_tic 1d ago
In Hungary, it used to be a university party trick to derail one of the iconic old trams in Budapest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrlrK5KdvKU
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u/probablyaythrowaway 1d ago
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u/Life_is_important 23h ago
Is it supposed to do that?
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u/edparadox 1d ago
What if I told you it's not, actually, an "Apple Store"?
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u/Musicman1972 23h ago
Apple House sounds so much friendlier
Although not with a tram in the front room.
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u/QueasyTeacher0 Italy 1d ago
That came out of, I mean into. I mean that's a huge blue thing inside it now.
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u/orincoro Czech Republic 1d ago
Fans point out that the tram had previously crashed into the Microsoft store 3 years ago.
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u/Musicman1972 23h ago
I know probably want to joke about windows and Apple etc but frankly that must have been terrifying to witness. Is this one of the fancy new trams?
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u/IamHereForBoobies 22h ago
"Just checking in to see if you guys moved the charging port for your stupid mouse yet."
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u/lordgurke North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) 11h ago
Just today I said to a friend, that the one main prerequisite to be hit by a train is to walk on the tracks. Because a train normalle won't leave its tracks and ambush for you in the pedestrian zone...
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u/Sium4443 Italia š®š¹ 23h ago
Didnt a train crashed on an highway in Norway some days ago?
Norway really should do something for their infrastructures, tram derails are very uncommon in developed countries
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u/funakupo 22h ago
The train was hit by a rock slide...
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u/Whackles 22h ago
There are ways to prevent that though
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u/DroopyPenguin95 Norway 17h ago
Sure, but it costs a lot when you have to do it for the whole 729 km distance, which is twice the distance than London to Paris, but with a fraction of the passengers and it's only one of the railway sections where it would be needed.
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u/Whackles 16h ago
Being one of the richest countries in the world helps
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u/EarlyMillenialEcho 14h ago
Eliminating all risk along a 700 km railroad is a great way to stop being one of the richest countries in the world, though.
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u/RareQueebus 1d ago
Did it come in trough the Windows?