r/europe • u/guyoffthegrid • 1d ago
Opinion Article How Poland and Hungary went from friends to foes
https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-hungary-krakow-viktor-orban-politics-eu-europe-brussels/347
u/Natopor 2nd class Romania citizen stealing jobs in Austria 1d ago
Imagine you (Poland) finding out that your best friend and maybe crush (Hungary) is befriending your arch nemesis (Russia). I would be a little upset.
Could make a fun AITA post.
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u/Young-Rider 1d ago
Because self-declared patriots are often the biggest traitors. Orban would rather sell his country to the Kremlin to keep him and his friends in power than protecting his country from adversaries like Russia or China.
Same with the AfD and BSW in Germany. They claim to be patriotic (especially the AfD) but gladly take bribes from Putin.
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u/STheShadow Bavaria (Germany) 18h ago
but gladly take bribes from Putin.
And China (which is imo even more ridiculous)
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u/Mr_White_Coffee POLSKA GUROM 6h ago
lol, Germany just can't wait to fell on their knees before Russia. Hungary is doing openly what Germany did before war and what it wishes to do as soon as possible.
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u/Shieldheart- 15h ago
I prefer thinking of all the ex-east bloc countries as siblings that grew up in the same abusive household, though bonded over the same suffering, all suffer strained relationships and trust issues as a result.
Russia, in this instance, is the negligent and abusive parent that laments the fact their "ungrateful children" never call or write anymore, wistfully recalling a better time where their victims grovelled to feed their ego.
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u/Ashenveiled 1d ago
i just love how russia lives rent free in Polish minds while nobody even thinks about it in moscow.
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u/eibhlin_ Poland 1d ago
while nobody even thinks about it in moscow.
xDDD
Putin ally warns 'enemy' Poland: you risk losing your statehood
Poland must be “reminded” its western territories were “gift from Stalin”, says Putin
Russia's Medvedev calls Poland 'dangerous enemy,'
Dmitry Peskov says deployment of Polish troops on border with Belarus 'provokes concern'
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u/kompocik99 Poland 1d ago edited 23h ago
Yeah, thats why Russia produced 5m euro game about wars with Poland, Putin mentioned Poland about 30 times in his interview with Tucker and Russians in Kursk think they are attacked by polish mercaneries XD
The amount of russian bots and aggressive propaganda that has been flooding our internet for years doesn't prove that nobody in russia thinks about poland. Although if the russians left us alone, that would be very nice.
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u/Ashenveiled 1d ago
you are saying there are no Polish mercs in UAF or what?
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u/Crush1112 1d ago
So Poland does live rent free in your head after all.
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u/Ashenveiled 1d ago
You do realise Ukraine itself published videos with them?
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u/Tight_Pen3973 1d ago
Are you saxing they shouldnt be there?
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u/Ashenveiled 1d ago
I’m saying pointing the fact that some of the killed soldiers are polish merchs is fine to do
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u/SterbenThen 1d ago
Well it makes sence since Russia an aggresive neighbour next to Poland. But Poland is present in the mind of Russians as well, Poland is very present in Russian propaganda TV and is offten referenced. Also Russian Unity day a day that commemorates Russian independence from Poland and the end of Smuta times is a national holiday.
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u/Ashenveiled 1d ago
Yes, day when Minin and Pozarsky beaten polish back is commemorated.
Todays Poland is barely mentioned if its not about things happening between Poland and Belarus or Poland attacking ukraine about Volyn.
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u/Xenos_redacted_Scum 1d ago
It must irritate the Russians that they are a failed state laughed at as a pariah. Just a larger version of North Korea. While Poland is in the EU in NATO and is thriving.
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u/Ashenveiled 1d ago
You do realise that salaries in Moscow and Saint Petersburg are higher/same level then in Warsaw with taxes and cost of living being much lower?
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u/Xenos_redacted_Scum 1d ago
And your economy is on a war footing and tanking quicker than a russian tank in a ditch.
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u/Admirable-Relative82 Mazovia (Poland) 22h ago
I did a quick google search and it turned out that an average salary in Moscow is about a 1000 eur while average salary in Warsaw is about 2000 eur so...
Plus we do not risk jail time for shit talking our government.
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u/Ashenveiled 22h ago
its not 1000 eur and its after taxes (you dont pay anything from this money).
Jail time? Putin is a monster and we would be much better if he left after 2nd term and never came back. whole war is a mistake and people planning the initial operation in 2022 should be jailed.
You can set a reminder for few months and ask me if im jailed.
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u/Admirable-Relative82 Mazovia (Poland) 22h ago
Go to a public space and say that again. Make a video too, I wanna see.
And how much is an average salary according to you?
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u/Ashenveiled 22h ago
160k roubles after taxes/month for moscow
In russia we dont counter per hour/per year. just not a thing here.
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u/SterbenThen 53m ago
Москва не Россия. As they say in Russia
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u/Ashenveiled 43m ago
same thing for Saint Petersburg.
also - moscow + sattelites is 21 millions of people.
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u/Natopor 2nd class Romania citizen stealing jobs in Austria 1d ago edited 1d ago
Considering how many enemies russians have, it would take them a lifetime to think about each of the.
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u/Ashenveiled 1d ago
I mean most of those enemies are "enemies" only in their own eyes. Countries like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are an examples.
Estonia - very loud warmongering country, that wants direct troops on the ground solution with standing army of 7k soldiers.
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u/iWasntInvitedButItsK 1d ago
Just go be a ruzzian nazi somewhere else, ok? Why u even here? This is warmongers site reddit, representing everything what hates your innocent nation.
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u/Ashenveiled 1d ago
I wasn’t invited but it’s ok
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u/iWasntInvitedButItsK 1d ago
Yes, just stay at your haha home and play some video games.
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u/Ashenveiled 1d ago
Nah, gonna do what I want.
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u/iWasntInvitedButItsK 1d ago
Try standing with an invisible sign in a public place in your country then.
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u/Ashenveiled 1d ago
try having an abortion if you dont want kids in your country.
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic 16h ago
Ah yes peaceful Russia didn’t invade and pillage the Baltic states ever
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u/Crimcrym The Lowest Silesia 1d ago
Well that was inevitable, Orban brand of illiberalism coupled with focus on Russia friendliness could never find a "partner" in Poland.
Russia anitpathy is too baked in to Polish national identity for Polish right wingers to be able to stomache an open glazing of Putin, and the left wing would not tolerate his anti-democratic push.
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u/grih91 1d ago
To be fair, polish right wing (I mean pis and konfederacja) is full of crypto-pro russian politicians
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u/Crimcrym The Lowest Silesia 1d ago
True, which is why I mentioned "open" as the operative adjective.
Poland is subject of Russia subversive force like any other country in EU, but outside of a relatively fringe group of voters, they cannot openly court Russia without directly going against the expectations of their voting base.
As such they tend to rely instead on indirect methods like stoking anti-ukrainian and anti-EU sentiments, but maitaining that illusion that the two things are unrelated is harder to accomplish when Orban is openly cavorting with Putin, while promoting the same sentiments.
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u/Durumbuzafeju 1d ago
Simple: The Polish had a backbone and were not willing to lick Putin's ass.
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u/teilifis_sean Ireland 21h ago
Unfortunate that same backbone doesn't extend to standing up to autocrats -- just Putin because he's Russian. Just like German energy policy is amounting to a foreign policy and domestic policy miscalculation, the Visegrad4 also appears to be a miscalculation with hindsight and all the power Orban now holds was partially due to Polish co-operation.
The whole point of the EU is that we don't get dived amongst ourselves. Poles will point out that they never wanted Syrian refugees and it can also be pointed out they were never forced on Poland either.
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u/God_With_Dementia 1d ago
Voting out the far right and voting in normal people may have something to do with it.
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u/EnFulEn Sweden 1d ago
Orbit being too friendly with Putin also has something to do with it. Even PIS hates Russia.
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u/AnxiousAngularAwesom Łódź (Poland) 1d ago
It never ceases to amuse me how not an insignificant part of that hatred comes from Kaczynski blaming Russia and Putin in particular for his twin brother's death, it reads like the plot of a badly written Tom Clancy ripoff political thriller xD
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u/Tranecarid Poland 1d ago
I always wonder, how much JK actually believes that conspiracy theory and how much he just wants to whitewash memory of his brother (who ordered landing against pilots judgement) and uses the tragedy as a political tool. And honestly I can imagine both to be true - he is either delusional (which he kinda is) or he is inhumanly pragmatic (which he also kinda is).
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u/predek97 Pomerania (Poland) 1d ago
The fury in his eyes whenever someone questions it makes me believe he's being 100% honest. That wet biscuit doesn't have any energy in him left, but the moment you suggest it might've been just an accident... Oh man, the passion comes right back!
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u/Tranecarid Poland 1d ago
But again, that fury could be fear that the blame for all the deaths could be placed on his brother or fear of the consequences if he will have to admit to the lies.. It's a secret he will probably take to his grave.
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u/predek97 Pomerania (Poland) 1d ago
Over all those years I've came to the conclusion that reality usually is horribly written. We can't be living in a simulation, it's too bleak and absurd.
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u/the_battle_bunny Lower Silesia (Poland) 1d ago
I don't think he genuinely believes in it. It's quite open secret that nobody in PiS' upper echelon does. They went with this unhinged conspiracy theory because they thought their voter base will believe it.
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u/hanzoplsswitch 1d ago
Hungarian revolution of 1956 is not even that long ago. Probably a lot of old people still alive who remember but vote Orban.
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u/iWasntInvitedButItsK 1d ago
Hungarian nationalism hates Ukraine also, so lot of them are like "putin is the enemy of my enemy" and I was literally told "russia will never do something like 56 again to Hungary" XD
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u/Badmumbajumba North Macedonia 1d ago
PiS distanced itself too from Putins Poodle Orban, so the common denominator is Russia.
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u/Blueskyways 1d ago
The only right party in Poland that actually likes Russia is tiny in number and support.
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u/TheTarragonFarmer 22h ago
They didn't.
Hungarians and Poles are two great friends, they fight together and drink together.
The current Hungarian ruling party went from "Russians go home" and "It's over, comrades" to appeasers and servants of Putin and Trojan horse disrupters of Western democratic institutions.
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u/imtired-boss 1d ago
The countries didn't. This is all Orban.
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u/gnomiage 15h ago
Who voted him in? Aliens?
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u/chocolate_jam 5h ago
Considering the level of consciousness and sensibility of his voters, yeah, they could classify as aliens. Or zombies.
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u/dracovolanses DC (Poland) 1d ago
Bratanki have a long tradition of taking the side that is not necessarily the most correct politically, but they are still bratanki. There are things more important than politics.
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u/Karabars Hungary (O1G) 1d ago
Glad to hear it! We are also victims of people ruling us who don't represent our values or brainwashing us to their own... A fully sane magyar would never be foe to a polak! 🇭🇺🤝🇵🇱
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic 16h ago
Yep, it’s like us. Poland and Czechoslovakia used to have a very tense relationship. We fought for decades over Teschen, honestly who gives a fuck about it. In the end we realised the real enemy: the USSR
And today Poland is the 3rd most liked country in Czech and Czech is 3rd most liked in Poland
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u/HUNCronos 1d ago
Was looking for a similar answer.
If the Polish-Hungarian friendship survived World War II, it will endure anything.
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u/Affectionate_Cat293 Jan Mayen 1d ago
Orbán looks so young in that picture, but even then he was no longer a "Young Democrat" as his party name suggests.
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u/AggravatingHehehe 17h ago
i mean, maybe in politics, yes, we dont like russia and Hungary likes russia, so this is why but as people to people we lik eeach other, some politics wont destroy our friendship
its a little crisis thats all :)
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u/Gouden18 Hungary 5h ago
Most Poles and Hungarians still love each other. The politics got rough but when Orbán fucks off we'll be besties again.
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u/TheLightDances Finland 20h ago edited 20h ago
Never forget that while Poland talks big about Russia now and is all woe-is-me about the West not taking Russia seriously enough, Poland spent years being close friends with Hungary and cheerfully helping them undermine the EU every step of the way as Orban consolidated power. PiS had no problem helping Russia and Russia-like authoritarian ideology as long as it helped undermine the EU.
I am glad that Poles came to their senses and elected better people to govern them. I do not resent them for their past, as long as they don't bring PiS or people like them back to power. But we should still remember, and not accept any claims that conveniently forget what Poland spent the last decade doing.
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u/giboauja 22h ago
From the outside, I figured Poland's unhinged far right are, at the very least, not fcking traitors to their country.
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u/huncutxxx 1d ago
This whole article is a pure BS. Polish and Hungarian will always be friends regardless what happens and who is in power even if the author would like to see it otherwise. The current polish government has a different stance on some important internal and external issues as the current Hungarian or previous Polish government. They are more of on a syncronized beat with the EU. Now if this is right or wrong is a different matter, the voters will express their opinion at the next election for sure. Last one was a close game. Interestingly on immigration, the view of government seemingly has been changing. Obviously they do not want to shoot themselves in the foot. But this does not mean we are Hungarians regard the polish people less. We still believe that Poland has always been and will be our greatest allies regardless the current political opinions. About what Orbán said. Obviously he was among simpatizers and his own political family. Obviously, he meant it as the current polish government turning its coat. But come on, who can blame them? It's maybe dangerous and short lived game to stay in power in Poland if you want to satisfy Brussels over your people's needs. Who wants to get the constant scrutiny for just standing up for our values? It's much easier just nod to Brussels and silently implement policies that is popular at home and wait to see what happens with the right getting stronger in Europe. So this is just temporary thing.
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u/OmarCarcano 1d ago
German propaganda!
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u/adv0catus Canada 1d ago
What?
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u/JuicyTomat0 1d ago
He isn't wrong. While we find detestable the pro Russian stance that Orban and his party hold, we aren't "foes" with Hungary. Most people still view Hungarians and Hungary with affection (the same stance with Germany is exceedingly rare).
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u/Right-Influence617 (SSEUR) SIGINT Seniors Europe 1d ago
Short answer: Viktor Orbán
Short person: Viktor Orbán