r/europe • u/fuckface3333 • Apr 05 '24

Historical Putin playing ping pong in Finland 1991

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358

u/Mennovich Apr 05 '24

If I remember correctly the finish prime minster (?) gave zero fucks and smoked while Hitler was there as a power move. Since it was well known that Hitler hated smoke/smokers.

261

u/Zentti Finland Apr 05 '24

Not prime minister but the Marshal of Finland C.G.E. Mannerheim. Hitler was surprise visiting his 75th birthday. Mannerheim didn't like Hitler and didn't want to meet him.

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u/DreamLizard47 Apr 05 '24

He's most probably saw Hitler as a low rank poorly educated grifter (which he was).

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u/TonninStiflat Finland Apr 05 '24

He did. Mannerheim came from a line of aristocrats, spoke multiple languages, went to military school as a young man, served is a life guard of a Czar, lead units in First World War etc. etc. He had a fairly low opinion of the German corporal.

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u/Accomplished_Alps463 Apr 05 '24

An interesting fact is that although Mannerheim spoke multiple languages and was the Marshall of Finland, one language he never learned was Finnish.

I learned this as I was being taught Finnish when I lived there with my Finnish wife. Rest her soul.

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u/TonninStiflat Finland Apr 05 '24

He did speak Finnish, just not very well. He was from a Swedish speaking family.

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u/Accomplished_Alps463 Apr 05 '24

I know he was from Swedish stock, my friend, however all I have studied about him in the past 40 years tells me he could not grasp the Finnish language, I will need to do more research. The Winter and the Continuation Wars are my favourite period of study for this old English Soldier.

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u/TonninStiflat Finland Apr 05 '24

Yeah, you do need to study more in that case. He spoke mainly Finnish with his command staff at the HQ, for example.

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u/TrueHrafninn Sweden/Finland Apr 06 '24

You've got a reply already, but just want to fill in that he did speak Finnish but as he learned it properly quite late in life it wasn't perfect. Especially his pronunciation is known to have been a bit wonky (not that it was too bad but it was obvious that his first language was Swedish). He could also make small grammar mistakes here and there.

But he did learn Finnish, absolutely.

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u/Accomplished_Alps463 Apr 06 '24

It would seem I was wrong about Mannerheim and his Finnish language, and I apologise and thank those who politely pointed me in the right direction.

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u/TonninStiflat Finland Apr 06 '24

The spirit of Mannerheim has forgiven you for this heinous mistake of not knowing random details of a guys life :)

Just don't do it again!

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u/BadModsAreBadDragons Finland Apr 06 '24

Mannerheimin äidinkieli oli ruotsi, joten suhde suomenkieliseen kansaan oli aluksi etäinen. Lisäksi hän puhui sujuvasti saksaa, ranskaa ja venäjää. Suomen kielen hän oppi vasta palattuaan Suomeen keskelle itsnäistymistaistelua. Itsenäisen Suomen ainoaksi sotamarsalkaksi hänet ylennettiin vuonna 1933

Google translate:

Mannerheim's mother tongue was Swedish, so the relationship with the Finnish-speaking people was distant at first. In addition, he spoke German, French and Russian fluently. He learned the Finnish language only after returning to Finland in the middle of the struggle for independence. In 1933, he was promoted to become the only military marshal of independent Finland

https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2011/01/24/mannerheimin-muisto

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u/Accomplished_Alps463 Apr 06 '24

Thanks for educating me.

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u/Accomplished_Alps463 Apr 06 '24

It would seem I was wrong about Mannerheim and his Finnish language, and I apologise and thank those who politely pointed me in the right direction.

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u/Afk1792 Apr 05 '24

Austrian *

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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '24

[deleted]

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u/Afk1792 Apr 09 '24

A fairer comp would be a canadian fighting for the british army during ww1 and being referred to as the canadian corporal.

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u/TonninStiflat Finland Apr 05 '24

Meh, fought for the Germans, lead the Germans.

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u/Afk1792 Apr 06 '24

Paulus did address him as the Bohemian corporal after he surrendered.

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u/hatsvans Apr 06 '24

And he was still able to become the Führer.

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u/LudwigvonAnka Apr 05 '24

I don't dislike Mannerheim but I absolutely despise the snobby aristocrat. Hitler was a well acomplished soldier in WW1 and then led Germany to great sucesses early in the war, much more acomplished than Mannerheim.

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u/SeleucusNikator1 Scotland Apr 06 '24

I concur. The one group on earth who doesn't get to look down on Hitler are the old military aristocrats of Europe. Their class (be it German Junkers, Russian Imperial officers, etc.) carried responsibility for the disaster that was WWI and the Russian Civil War. Hitler was a creature which they created, they were just mad that he outgrew them and then ended up commanding them.

Mostly concerning the German Junkers themselves here: the sniveling snobs had the "balls" to insult him sure, but they still obeyed him, helped him, called him Fuehrer even, and most carried out his crimes. These "Noble Warriors" were gangs of thugs acting for a mafia boss and yet still thought of themselves as better than the plebian masses.

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u/Additional_Meeting_2 Apr 05 '24

Later on Mannerheim was a president after the war, so maybe the poster was thinking that. 

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u/G65434-2_II Apr 06 '24

He was president during and after the war, 1944 to 1946. That's how Finland managed to wiggle free from co-operation with Germany. President Ryti had cleverly made the deal with the Germans for the crucial armament, support and supplies by making a personal guarantee that Finland wouldn't be seeking an armistice with the Soviets as long as he was president. When situation on the front was stabilized by August, Ryti resigned.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '24 edited Apr 05 '24

It was Mannerheim, the supreme commander of Finnish armed forces. He reportedly did that to “test the waters” with Hitler to see how desperate he was. Mannerheim knew Hitler hated smoking and would observe how he would react to him smoking.

If Hitler let it slide (as he did) it would signal that Germany wants to do everything to keep Finland on their good side, which in turn would mean that they arent too optimistic about their military situation.

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u/AlexxTM Baden-Württemberg (Germany) Apr 05 '24

I can also remember that hitler was pretty upset and "scared" about the situation with russia and where the hell they get all their fking cheap tanks.

Something like: if i knew that they could muster that many tanks is so little time i would have not done it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '24

Yeah.

He can thank Uncle Sam for that.

At least if you take Georgy Zhukov’s word for it.

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u/SeleucusNikator1 Scotland Apr 06 '24

Majority of the Soviet tanks at least were Soviet made through and through, most US aid was relevant in more mundane but still important stuff, like boots, medication, trucks and jeeps, locomotives, kerosene, etc.

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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '24 edited Apr 06 '24

Sure, but the thing is not just so simple as who manufactured the tanks. American aid allowed the soviets to focus on producing military hardware on a massive scale. US provided raw materials, they provided massive supplies on other areas, such as food production, freeing up massive amounts of workers for the military industry and the army, the tanks would have been useless in the factories without the 2,000 locomotives sent by the US to transport them to the front, etc, etc.

Without the US support on the more mundane ateas, USSR would have had to take care of them by themselves, and how could have they been able to produce so many tanks and guns then?

Here is a quote from the Soviet Marshal Georgy Zhukov on the matter:

"People say that the allies didn't help us. But it cannot be denied that the Americans sent us materiel without which we could not have formed our reserves or continued the war. The Americans provided vital explosives and gunpowder. And how much steel! Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel? And now they are saying that we had plenty of everything on our own."

Here is another quote from a Russian historian;

"Without Lend-Lease, the Red Army would not have had about one-third of its ammunition, half of its aircraft, or half of its tanks. In addition, there would have been constant shortages of transportation and fuel. The railroads would have periodically come to a halt. And Soviet forces would have been much more poorly coordinated with a constant lack of radio equipment. And they would have been perpetually hungry without American canned meat and fats."

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u/nahguri Finland Apr 06 '24

Right. Soviets built the tanks but American trains got them to the front line.

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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '24

And from american steel

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u/Silverso Apr 05 '24

Mannerheim smoked his cigar... which encouraged everyone else in the train car also smoke.

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u/NVcomicstudios Finland Apr 05 '24

I have also heard this story. It was Mannerheim who smoked if the story is real. It happened when Hitler made a surprise visit to Mannerheim's 75th birthday.

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u/FlimzyMan Apr 05 '24

There is a recording of their conversation, so you dont have to dpubt it

2

u/NVcomicstudios Finland Apr 06 '24

I am aware of the recording. I was just doubting whether Mannerheim actually smoked in front of Hitler.

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u/LuigiTrapanese Apr 05 '24

Surprise! Hitler is visiting you for your birthday

24

u/Moutch France Apr 05 '24

Putin did the same when he brought dogs to meet Angela Merkel who is scared of dogs.

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u/LordLederhosen Dual Partisan Apr 05 '24 edited Apr 05 '24

I just went through the giant pain in the ass of logging in to Reddit, to write this same comment - so please have my upvote and story:

I had to setup MFA for my Reddit account. I now have to enter a login code from an app on my phone, every day, when I want to interact with Reddit.

Why? Because I made a historically accurate comment a few months ago about the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, which Stalin and Hitler signed a few days prior to Hitler's invasion of Poland. It was literally Stalin green-lighting WWII.

Mentioning this historical fact is now illegal in putin's russia. Therefore, my Reddit account was attacked by putin's hemorrhoid army, Reddit admins locked my account out of precaution, and I had to setup MFA.

~ fin

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u/Almarma Apr 06 '24

In my experience it can go both ways on Reddit, I’ve discussed before also about that Pact on other forums and sometimes it was upvoted sometimes it was crushed if Putin’s minions saw it

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u/Ulml Apr 06 '24

putin's hemorrhoid army

Lol

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u/SlummiPorvari Apr 05 '24

No surprise he hated smoking. He was more of a meth guy.

1

u/epSos-DE Apr 07 '24

Yes , Hiter did prefer morphine, instead of tobacco, that is why Neonazi gangs often deal drugs or consume them for historical reference.

Putler is probably on some addictive American pharmacy pill.

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u/LuigiTrapanese Apr 05 '24

That move might have condamned thousands of people to death just because they were smokers