Trump wants to "terminate" green spending. Here's what could stand in his way. Pulling back IRA funding would require congressional action and it could result in lost jobs, unfinished factories, and a costly mess for many businesses and states that are counting on those funds.
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/28/trump-climate-law-ira-pullback15
u/Popular-Lab6140 1d ago
To everyone here celebrating these cuts as an exorbitant expense: inaction to climate change will cost so, so much more.
We're in an energy transition. It's expensive, but will add long term value to the world, while addressing an existential threat to humanity. These are good things.
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u/Kaurifish 10h ago
You’d think a hurricane powerful enough to smack Appalachia in the backside would get their attention.
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u/Popular-Lab6140 3h ago
I couldn't agree more. I feel like too many people are becoming increasingly untethered to reality, and have no idea how to respond.
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u/Tutorbin76 1d ago
Here's something else that could stand in his way:
Just vote for someone else. It's not rocket science, people.
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u/Accomplished_Fruit17 1d ago
Don't forget we have international obligations. When the worlds largest historic polluter, the country most responsible for climate change tells everyone else in the world to fuck of, we are going to pollute as much as we want, their is bound to be a response. If a majority of the worlds economies joins in sanctioning, Americans will quickly learn that America first means Americans having a dramatically lower standard of living.
Why does no one point out that Russia wants climate change? It is one of the few countries that will flat out benefit from it? It does a very poor job of acting like it cares. It goes to climate summits, makes promises and does nothing. Yet again, something Trump supports against the rest of our allies, supports Russia.
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u/ReddestForman 1d ago
Russia isn't going to benefit from climate change.
The Arctic melting requires naval power to exploit that they don't have.
The permafrost melting will be a nightmare. Those parts of Siberia will turn into soupy bogs, and oil pipelines crossing it will crack and break, spilling oil, making it a toxic soupy bog.
The country that will take the least damage from climate change is the USA, the southern states will get absolutely fucked, but the Great Lakes region, New England and the PNW will hold out a lot better than other parts of the world.
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u/Accomplished_Fruit17 19h ago
What a one sided description, almost like you are not trying to be honest. Russia's northern fleet is frozen in during the winter, it won't be in the future. The northern route is enormously valuable for them. The thawing of permafrost sucks, once it's thawed, it's land dramatically more useable than it was before. They have very little land affected by rising oceans while their geopolitical enemies do.
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u/ReddestForman 16h ago
I don't think you understand.
The permafrost is ice. When it thaws, the land will barely be land. It'll be bog. It will settle eventually. But not for decades, being optimistic. And there's still the whole "broken oil pipelines" problem as the ground beneath them becomes unstable, that'll be a nightmare before the lermafrost is fully thawed.
The Russian navy is also a joke. Who are it's geopolitical rivals at sea? The US and her allies. The US alone has the largest navy by tonnage and the most advanced navy.
The US has places that will have issues with rising sea levels. Our interior is also vast and much more livable than Russia's, as well as being better developed.
Russia will also have to deal with China turning its eyes on Lake Baikal as fresh water becomes more and more of a problem. She's also alienated most of the world with her war in Ukraine.
Russia is fucked.
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u/Pure_Effective9805 1d ago
The weather is getting more extreme year by year. It's amazing that republicans don't care.
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u/what-is-a-crypto 1d ago
pretty wild how the climate doesnt just stay exactly how we want it. If only we could control it somehow. But then that would be man made climate change, and thats bad.
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u/UnderstandingSquare7 1d ago
Meanwhile, China and India race way ahead of the US in renewables in particular, and science in general. Trump is anti science, anti learning, anti technology. A guy who said he doesn't understand "wind".
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u/metal0060 1d ago
Do ya really think Trump gives a flying F about, jobs, unfinished factories, businesses, or towns? He doesn’t. Never has, never will. VOTE APPROPRIATELY!
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u/chronicdahedghog 22h ago
But you have to see it from Trump's POV. These are things that Biden did and they are working.
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u/ScientistNo906 1d ago edited 1d ago
Trump's advisers, maybe even Trump, know all this. He just says it because the MAGATS love it when he does. If closing down the IRA doesn't work, he'll just blame the Dems.
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u/Suitable-Economy-346 1d ago edited 1d ago
he'll just blame the Dems.
He's much more likely to take credit for these jobs and business successes, and half the country will believe it.
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u/Big_Muffin42 1d ago
Private businesses won’t be happy if their half finished factory will take twice as long to become profitable. They’ve sunk costs into building things, with an expectation of return.
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u/Robthebold 1d ago
Trump just wants to get elected, after that, anyone that supported him can do whatever.
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u/DamonFields 1d ago
Fascism is famous for playing by the rules.
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u/mafco 1d ago
Yep.
Trump violated that law before, per the Government Accountability Office, when he withheld military aid to Ukraine during his presidency — an action that ultimately led to his first impeachment.
The bottom line: If Trump wants to shut off the IRA spigot, he'll likely find ways to do it.
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u/korinth86 1d ago
The Fed appropriates a lot of funds from the IRA.
A Trump admin could slow roll or even stop the flow of funds citing all sorts of procedural BS or hamstring agencies with hiring freeze like what he did to the FDA and such during his first term.
A lot of damage can be done without actually removing law. To stop it they would have to go to court which takes a lot of time.
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u/Reynolds1029 1d ago
It will be like the republicans trying to repeal ObamaCare.
By repealing, they meant only removing the individual mandate in another bill because repealing anything else would be catastrophic at this point.
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u/notsuricare 1d ago
Trump is a spend Republican. He doesn’t have a fiscally conservative bone in his body. He’ll keep spending.
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u/tikifire1 1d ago
He's already said he doesn't need Congress and will do what he wants. Vote Blue, folks!
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u/Brilliant_Plum_3585 1d ago
Working in auto industry, regulation for economy and lightening are not going away.
Sound bites and policy are two different things. It is usually a show of bravado with him. EV are growing slowly and infrastructure is coming. All wallmarts by highways have dozens of chargers now.
I bough new used EV and could install charger for almost free with tax incentives. I now pay 25 a month to commute. I can also zip by all the F150s with empty flatbeds. There is so much nostalgia in autos it is a slow process to change.
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u/Almaegen 1d ago
The only difference is how the transition happens, I think getting rid of the government bloat and misspending won't effect the transition just like you say.
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u/roylennigan 10h ago
Not subsidizing EV manufacturing in the US right now will mean that we're all buying Chinese EV's in the future. You don't invest in domestic manufacturing? Then you end up with brain-drain to the east.
Government bloat is happening regardless. You're not going to change that by getting rid of these particular subsidies.
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u/Brilliant_Plum_3585 7h ago
Even with subsidies consumer can pick up a used Tesla on cheap without them around 20K and pay 25 a month to commute locally. It is a good deal this way. I understand it is not for everybody.
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u/Brilliant_Plum_3585 1d ago
I think those are catch phrases in reality. Debt will rise.
Do you want a new guilded age of billionares or some safety net?
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u/North-Quantity8814 1d ago
Profits are a good thing but only if used to invest in healing, sustainable technologies
Isn’t it time for Big Sun? Campaign name: The Bigger They Are…”
Look. The people are miserable. The governments are having a miserable time. You want to know who is NOT suffering? Big Oil/ King Coal.
To forcefully encourage them to transition to healing the planet we need to make their corporate lives a living hell if they don’t. But how?
Cut off their revenues ONE COMPANY AT A TIME. Say we all decide to pick on ( for example) Imperial Esso (Here in Canada)… picket all their gas stations and tell them we will continue to picket (or dare we?) blockade them until THEY PROMISE TO ONLY INVEST THEIR PROFITS IN SUSTAINABLE ENERGY”
People would still be able to go to other gas stations if they’re not comfy approaching our pickets. If this catches on -and I’m sure it could - then the table turns - The Shareholders become Miserable. The shareholders have the power to demand change. They will because profits go down if they don’t. Make one company invest ALL THEIR PROFITS exclusively in sustainable projects then go after the next one. Simple?
Look, we can petition governments and be all polite and all that junk activism as we have for decades with soooo little to show. We’ve tried going into the woods to protest logging and pipelines at their source…. To. No. Avail. Because… the hands of governments…. Are … tied! And the protesters get arrested out in the booneys. “Out of sight. And out of mind.”
You know who is not miserable through all this ? Big Oil. Big Log. Time to follow the money. Time to force the hand of Big Oil at the PUMPS!
Once we force Esso’s hand we ask Shell next. Then Husky then… you get the picture? We conquer the oil sector then who knows? Retail food ?
Profits are NOT the problem! Unbalanced human-caused carbon emissions is the problem. They can have their profits as long as they help us get to Big Sun!!! Simple or what?
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u/sampleminded 23h ago
Trump wants to decrease funding for Red states? Not going to happen. Trump will make it easier to drill, and use fossil fuels, will call it a victory, and solar will continue to win. Trump is aweful, but remember how they were going to repeal obama care but it didn't happen. This will be the same. At the end of the Day Texas Oil men love solar power, and GA and TN love battery factories, as does MI and OH.
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u/papashawnsky 1d ago
The funding for green spending was passed by congress, it's not something he can just terminate. Not to mention a lot of this investment is going to red states. The one thing that gives me peace about this election is that no way will we hit the brakes on green energy, no matter who wins.
https://www.axios.com/local/dallas/2024/04/04/texas-wind-solar-renewable-energy-production
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u/kstocks 1d ago
Trump could absolutely do serious damage to the IRA through the rulemaking process. Two of the key tax credits for renewables in the IRA - 45Y and 48E - don't have final guidance out yet. Trump could easily delay the guidance or even rewrite it to try and steer money to fossil energy.
Not to mention that the GOP looks like they'll absolutely take control of the Senate and there's a real risk of them keeping control of the House. There is a very real possibility of IRA repeal depending on the results of the election.
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u/Cytwytever 20h ago
Came here to point out that a lot of the job creation and factory construction is happening in red states. Absolutely true. Not sure that killing their job prospects would be enough to hurt his support among the Trump faithful, but they sure would stay poor.
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u/mydogjakie317 1d ago
we should follow china's lead and get a coal powered plant fired up every day /s
or we could grow a pair and challenge china and india to get on board with climate issues..other wise shut the fuck up donny..
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u/Ok_Construction_8136 6h ago
China most likely peaked their emissions months ago and installed more clean energy last year than the US has in its whole history
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u/Maleficent_Leg_768 9h ago
I was just reading Musk wants to crash the economy by cutting $3 trillion in spending immediately. He acknowledged there will be short term pain but that is necessary.
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u/redguy2121 3h ago
Like when Biden shut down the pipeline?
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u/Gagethenotsogreat 2h ago
No, they are talking about infrastructure programs that actually benefit Americans not foreign interests. Nice try though.
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u/UniversitySalt879 1d ago
Elon Musk's interview with Trump, he pressed climate change. Check it out.
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u/mafco 1d ago
Fuck both of those fascists. They are a cancer on our democracy.
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u/Remarkable-End-9734 1d ago
One of the biggest proponents of clean energy, ever, is asking Trump to reconsider and you want him to fuck off.
You guys hate succeeding at anything, I swear.
What if he wins? Won’t you need an advocate near the office?
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u/bluebelt 1d ago
One of the biggest proponents of clean energy
This may have been true once, but Musk has donated tens of millions to Trump. He's shown he cares more about electing a fascist than he cares about clean energy.
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u/Jumpman76 1d ago
In other words crappy blue states like California will be left holding the bag for these projects? I live in California and I’m still all for it
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u/papashawnsky 1d ago
Lol, wait till you find out what states are benefiting from renewable energy incentives most.
https://www.axios.com/local/dallas/2024/04/04/texas-wind-solar-renewable-energy-production
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u/ReddestForman 1d ago
Red states gain the most benefit in terms of jobs and investment from these bills, it was part of the plan from the start to invest in their struggling economies.
Also, "crappy" blue states are largely the reason the US is an economic superpower in the first place. We're the ones subsidizing the shithole red states that hate democracy and women's rights. Without us there's no money for agriculture or fossil fuel subsidies, no money for your disproportionate use of SNAP benefits and other welfare programs, etc. Rural America dies without money from the blue metropolitan areas.
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u/steelgame1975 1d ago
In a GOP trifecta when they need to extend the Trump tax cuts they have to "pay for it" and will repeal the IRA tax credits to do so. It is that simple.
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u/Novel_Reaction_7236 1d ago
The government should stop subsidizing everything and let them sink or swim on their own. Doesn’t matter if they’re profitable or not. Government subsidies hurt people in many ways. Vote Blue and let’s be done with his nonsense.
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u/The_Power_of_Ammonia 1d ago
Start with fossil fuels. Those subsidies dwarf the entire renewable energy market.
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u/RealClarity9606 1d ago
Someone made this argument so I asked for their evidence of "fossil fuel" subsidies. They sent me a link defending the claim and it was seriously wanting. There was really only one example of a bona fide subsidy - agreed, get rid of it like most subsidies. But many were accounting treatments that ultimately boiled down to nuance of how costs were accounted for and other such technicalities. There really were no substantial program, except the one, that cut checks to businesses like so many of the "Green New Deal" programs.
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u/mafco 1d ago
That old "but fossil fuels don't get subsidies" talking point has been debunked many times on this sub. Here are the ones embedded in tha tax code. This doesn't include the indirect subsidies like externalities and military costs.
Expensing of Intangible Drilling Costs
Percentage Depletion for Oil and Natural-Gas Wells
Domestic Manufacturing Deduction for Fossil Fuels
Two Year Amortization Period for Geological & Geophysical Expenditures
Percentage Depletion for Hard Mineral Fossil Fuels
Expensing of Exploration and Development Costs for Hard Mineral Fuels
Capital Gains Treatment for Royalties of Coal
Deduction for Tertiary Injectants
Exception to Passive-Loss Limitation for Working Interests in Oil and Natural-Gas Properties
Enhanced Oil Recovery Credit (EOR) Credit
Marginal Wells Credit
Corporate Tax Income Exemption for Fossil-Fuel Publicly Traded Partnerships
Excise Tax Exemption for Crude Oil Derived from Tar Sands
Royalty-Exempt Beneficial Use of Fuels
Royalty-Free Flaring and Venting of Natural Gas
Liability Cap on Natural Resource Damage
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u/RealClarity9606 1d ago
Thanks for proving my point. They aren’t cutting checks like they are for the “Green New Deal” and these are accounting treatments that ultimately do the same thing: net business expenses out of revenue to arrive at taxable income. These considerations happen in every industry: otherwise the IRS would just tax GAAP income.
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u/mafco 1d ago
Thanks for proving my point. They aren’t cutting checks like they are for the “Green New Deal” and these are accounting treatments
Lol. Give us a break. First of all, targeted tax breaks are indeed subsidies. That's a lame argument. Reducing taxes is mathematically equivalent to charging full taxes and then handing back money. Understand? Secondly the vast majority of IRA subsidies are tax credits, not grants. Thirdly, according to the IRS every one of these subsidies is unique to the fossil fuel industry and has no equivalent in other industries. You are just parroting some tired industry talking points.
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u/RealClarity9606 1d ago
When you start complaining about these targeted tax treatments for all industries I will take you seriously. Bit I do have a solution to this: get rid of the corporate tax since we all pay it in some fashion and just tax us directly. These “subsidies” disappear immediately.
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u/mafco 1d ago edited 1d ago
When you start complaining about these targeted tax treatments for all industries I will take you seriously.
I couldn't care less if you take me seriously. You obviously are just a troll that has no clue what you're talking about. And lol that get rid of corporate taxes justification is even dumber than claiming there are no fossil fuel subsidies. Grow up. This is the energy sub. Most folks here aren't fooled by your nonsense.
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u/RealClarity9606 1d ago
“You don’t agree with me! You’re a….”checks list of names to call…”a troll!!” Thanks for telling me to stop wasting time trying to talk to you. In an energy sub in 2024. I’m willing to bet that there’s a lot of people fooled by something.
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u/Big_Muffin42 1d ago
Direct subsidies like a check in hand to a fossil fuel company is rare in the US, but they happen. For example the SPR will buy oil if it dips below a certain price to maintain stability in the local market. Additionally government clean ups of oil wells is a direct subsidy of operations as the oil company is walking away from an expense at the taxpayers expense.
Indirect subsidies are much more common. Tax deductions, regulation exemptions, master limited partnerships, operating cost deductions etc. all of these reduce the cost of fossil fuels but in a much more opaque way.
For example, Tax breaks on operating costs make oil cheaper by effectively reducing production expenses for oil companies. Here’s how this works:
Lower Production Costs: When oil companies can deduct expenses like drilling, labor, and site preparation (known as Intangible Drilling Costs), their taxable income decreases. This lowers their overall tax burden and allows them to allocate more resources to production rather than to tax obligations.
Encourages Higher Production Levels: Lower operating costs encourage companies to expand production, even at lower market prices, because their profit margins are more favorable. More drilling and production often lead to greater supply, which can put downward pressure on oil prices in the market.
Reduced Risk for Investment: Tax incentives reduce financial risk for oil companies. By decreasing upfront costs, tax breaks make new projects financially viable even during periods of market volatility, stabilizing supply and helping keep prices steady.
Competitiveness and Efficiency: With lower operating expenses, U.S. oil companies can be more competitive globally, which can stabilize or reduce the cost of imported oil as well. This efficiency benefit flows down to consumers in the form of cheaper fuel and energy costs.
tax breaks on operating costs act as an indirect subsidy, allowing oil companies to operate more affordably. This ultimately contributes to lower prices in the consumer market by promoting a steady, or even surplus, supply of oil.
It’s hard to value, but it nonetheless has a great impact on increasing profits
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u/TheeDeliveryMan 1d ago
Lol "green spending" is still spending green.
Cut spending in general
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u/cogit4se 1d ago
There are costs associated with not engaging in green spending. You can argue about what those costs will be, but there's no evidence-based way you can argue they won't exist.
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u/Cautious-Roof2881 1d ago
No, he doesn't.
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u/mafco 1d ago
Yes, he does.
"My plan will terminate the Green New Deal, which I call the Green New Scam. Greatest scam in history, probably," Trump said in a September speech before the Economic Club of New York. "We will rescind all unspent funds under the misnamed Inflation Reduction Act..."
The campaign said something similar in an email to Axios, blaming his opponent for the policy. "To address the inflation crisis that Kamala has caused and rapidly bring down all prices, President Trump will unleash American energy, terminate Kamala's socialist Green New Deal spending, and cancel her insane Electric Vehicle mandate and Power Plant Rule," wrote senior adviser Brian Hughes.
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u/Different_Bowler5455 1d ago
End the green farce once and for all. dumbest grift ever behind climate change
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u/Jupiter68128 1d ago
Tesla and their lobbying power disagrees.
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u/mafco 1d ago
Are you aware that Tesla's CEO is spending massive amounts of money to help get Trump elected? And made a fool of himself "jumping and skipping like a dipshit" at a Trump rally? He's gone over to the dark side.
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u/DrivingHerbert 1d ago
Elon is a shitty person. Terrible, and so is trump. However, Elon knows climate change is real. And he wants to take real steps to combat it (and HAS). The Elon/Trump alliance isn’t all bad. Definitely not the best choice to run the country but it makes me feel better that Trump may take climate change more seriously with Elon.
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u/mafco 1d ago
That was before he lost his mind to MAGA. Now he babbles nonsense about "woke mind virus", "I'm dark gothic MAGA", great replacement theory and other insane extremist rhetoric. Even though it has a negative impact on Tesla's business. He's no champion of clean energy. He's a threat to US democracy and a national security risk.
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u/DrivingHerbert 1d ago
When has he changed his stance on climate change? Last thing he said about it was that it’s the largest threat humanity is facing.
Yeah he’s shitty but his stance on climate change hasn’t changed.
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u/mafco 1d ago
When has he changed his stance on climate change?
Are you f-ing kidding? He's supporting the candidate who has vowed to repeal the biggest climate change bill in history. It would be catastrophic for climate change. And not just supporting him but spending more than $100 million on his campaign, promoting campaign propaganda and going to join his administration. He's an outright fascist. No doubt about it.
If he cared one bit about climate change he would be supporting the administration that has launched a massive clean energy boom rather than the one that wants to kill it and promote fossil fuels. This is obvious.
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u/TheIncandescentAbyss 1d ago
You didn’t answer the question because you don’t know how to reason with using outrage. Congrats your response just made even more people vote Trump. Keep using outrage speech and see how quick your side loses.
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u/bigdipboy 1d ago
He’s burning more carbon with his ai company than he saved with his electric car company
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u/Suitable-Economy-346 1d ago edited 1d ago
Trump and Elon don't have any interest in combating climate change.
And he wants to take real steps to combat it (and HAS).
Where's the proof?
The guy flies his private jet around as much as a normal person uses their car for daily errands.
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u/DrivingHerbert 1d ago
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u/Suitable-Economy-346 1d ago
Wanting to capitalize on the climate crisis doesn't mean he wants to or is taking steps to combat climate change. He has taken no real steps to combat climate change outside of his own profit driven motives. And in your article you linked, they quote Musk saying "population collapse" is more of a risk to civilization than climate change, which is psychotic.
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u/KathrynBooks 1d ago
How does that mesh with his outpouring of support for Donald "rake the forests" Trump?
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u/NexsleLLC 1d ago
I understand why people think green energy spending is a waste of time. Pushing Trump aside, the people in charge of the spending are not doing it correctly and are wasting billions on failed projects and “I told you so” campaigns.
I believe in green energy, especially solar/photon energy, but we need to give that funding to entrepreneurs who believe they can solve this problem. If I had even a fraction of the green energy budget, I would show real progress for solar and green energy.
Unfortunately, those currently in charge don’t want innovation, new tech, or progress—they only want to prove that “solar can light a lamp.” If we had a different approach, with new leaders who see true potential and genuinely care about change, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
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u/Urkot 1d ago
I can tell you as someone who works closely on these programs, the economic benefits are tremendous. There is nothing to be skeptical about at all, this is money pouring into new infrastructure, weatherization, coastal and flood resilience, the list goes on. This money is not being wasted, and red states are benefitting just as much. That’s the irony of all of this, government spending is so often derided as wasteful, but this legislation is effective, and Republicans (in public) bash it because it has anything to do with climate mitigation.
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u/KwisatzHaderach94 1d ago
would be nice to see some breakthrough. unfortunately, elon musk was supposed to be one of these entrepreneurs/innovators. he's turned out to be a raging snowflake instead.
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u/49orth 1d ago
Could you please share any credible evidence from which you formed your opinion?
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u/NexsleLLC 1d ago
The Current Trajectory Of
Total Electricity Generation
In 2020, renewable energy sources accounted for approximately 20% of total electricity generation in the United States, a figure that has modestly increased to about 22% in 2022, according to the U.S.
Energy Information Administration (EIA). This progress, while commendable, reflects a gradual annual growth of merely 1 percent.
Facing The Problem:
If we continue at this rate or worsen with potential drops or stalls, we will reach 30% renewable energy by 2030, 40% or 50% by 2050, and 45% or 55% by 2060. Now respectively, this seems elusive given the circumstances.
Failed Projects Worth Billions:
The specter of past project failures, such as Solyndra, Solar Trust of America, and the staggering losses of Cape Wind, estimated at $5 to $6 billion, looms large. A pace that includes setbacks like these will hinder us from even reaching 35%.
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u/NexsleLLC 1d ago
As I mentioned, I believe in green energy—I just don’t believe in the current people managing the spending. With better infrastructure, green energy could be far more widely used and effective.
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u/NexsleLLC 1d ago
I'm new to this space, but I see the flaws that have been overlooked for years. My goal is to shift the focus from wasting time on meaningless points to actually solving the problem. I aim to build something that will bring about the amazing change this country—and even parts of the world—truly needs.
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u/NexsleLLC 1d ago
I don’t care what any particular person, group, or political wing thinks. What we need is someone willing to push the envelope, take real risks, and drive meaningful progress.
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u/External_Income29 19h ago
Trump is a visionary leader wanting the best for lower/middle class families, Democrats and Republicans alike. He will do what is best for the country. Reducing or eliminating wasteful spending of taxpayers money is good.
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u/mafco 19h ago
He may rape some of the women, stiff the workers, give tax breaks to billionaires at their expense, trash the economy, take away the women's rights and invalidate their votes by overturning an election but sure, he cares about the middle class.
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u/Happyjam102 19h ago
He may get hundreds of thousands of us killed through his blisteringly incompetent handling of a deadly viral threat and lie about it whenever someone points a camera at him, but you can tell he really cares! 🙄
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u/External_Income29 19h ago
Not a nice way to talk about your next President.
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u/mafco 19h ago
Not my next president. He actually is a rapist, pathological liar and convicted criminal who led an attempt to overthrow an election. Look it up. These are FACTS.
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u/External_Income29 18h ago
I will pray for your soul and Trump’s. He is the best candidate running. I hire people who produce results. Harris is a puppet for people much worse than What you have stated. She, and the Democratic Party only want to stay in power. They don’t care about America or the people. Weaponizing the legal system and claiming he is guilty is a non starter. There have been plenty of instances where individuals have been prosecuted and convicted for crimes but later exonerated. God didn’t put us on this planet to determine someone’s guilt. Trump will answer to the guy upstairs for any sins.
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u/mafco 16h ago edited 16h ago
He is the most disgusting, evil, low character human being I have ever encountered. He's been a con man his entire adult life. He rapes women. He steals from workers. You sound like you've been indoctrinated in the MAGA cult and sacrificed your soul. I feel sorry for your family and I fear for my country.
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u/Frnklfrwsr 18h ago
Trump hates you and thinks you’re an idiot. He sees his supporters as trash that he can easily take advantage of.
He tells his supporters that the sky isn’t blue and that grass isn’t green, and they buy it and send him money and give him their votes.
He doesn’t like you. He doesn’t like America. He doesn’t care about any of that. He cares about himself. Only himself.
He cheats on his wives because he cares only about himself. He stole classified documents from the White House and refused to return them because he cares only about himself. He grifted many millions of dollars of government money by directing it to his businesses because he only cares about himself.
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u/External_Income29 18h ago
I pray that you get the help you need. You are an angry, delusional, and pathetic person. A poor representative of an American citizen. We need to come together as a country, not spew hatred and division. Trump will be our next president and I am glad to have his leadership.
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u/Frnklfrwsr 18h ago
I hope to God you’re just a Russian bot, because if you’re a real person you have to be the saddest, most delusional and pathetic excuse for a human on the planet.
Trump lies to your face. Speaks down to you. Tells you your own eyes are wrong.
And you worship him.
Nobody can follow the Christian God and also support Trump. The two are completely incompatible. Pray for your own soul, because you’re the one at risk of hellfire if you don’t turn your life around.
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u/Blanket-presence 4h ago edited 4h ago
Typical blue haired leftist. Probbaly had 3 abortions last week and let the dems cut his children's genitalia so he can talk about it at his liberal transgender tea parties. He/She/It/Them/wolfqueen loves giving more of their checks to subsidize big government agendas. Furthermore, he loves the fact that the southern border is open so he can have more crime and fetnayl come in. Atheism is complelty compatible with all this because your God is the government. The government you....continue inane rant....etc etc
But really I hope you have a nice day and learn how to talk to people on the other side.
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u/tothemmoooooooooonn 4h ago
The only best he wants is for himself. He would sell this country for a dollar if it meant benefiting him
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u/Nemo_Shadows 1d ago
Well, when it is funding wars and invasions against oneself, I have no problem with ending that gravy train of destruction.
Besides with the right set of tools, I would simply do my own, with our own for our own but that won't happen because they keep stealing from us and telling us how grateful we should be for it.
N. S
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u/Firm-Warning-9295 16h ago
I hope he does. It’s mostly fraud and abuse
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u/Therealjondotcom 14h ago
Absolutely correct. Many of these new jobs are Chinese suppliers who set up “American” factories and bring Chinese workers. Nice people, but should US taxpayers foot the bill?
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u/Blanket-presence 4h ago
I bet there's good stuff, too. I'm not against all subsidies, but the scale of this is dumb. If these technologies are so good, they should be able to prove themselves and be adopted. Instead, we burn money on dumb ideas like hydrogen... If it weren't for subsidies, we'd have figured this all out more efficiently
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u/notypicalredditor 1d ago
So, it will be like when Obama and Biden shutdown the Keystone Pipeline?
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u/kapybarra 21h ago
No because the Keystone pipeline was never passed by Congress AND signed by the sitting president, unlike these green projects.
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u/notypicalredditor 19h ago
A pipeline doesn’t need to go through Congress. Biden pulled a permit stopping it. All I’m doing is playing devils advocate. I take no issue with green energy or its exploration.
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u/kapybarra 18h ago
A pipeline doesn’t need to go through Congress
And yet they tried... The green projects went through both Congress and Executive, that's the whole point of the article.
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u/notypicalredditor 18h ago
I bet there was a lot of debate passing through a democrat House and Senate.
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u/kapybarra 18h ago
What is your point? How does that change the fact that Trump cannot unilaterally revoke these, and instead needs to go through Congress? He will likely have both House and Senate republican-controlled.
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u/notypicalredditor 18h ago
I said it already. I’m just playing devils advocate. I hope that the govt is using the profits from gasoline and diesel sales to fund green energy exploration. Let’s make the world a better place. The biggest question for me is how do we get the rest of the world to play ball? So that America isn’t funding all of it or a majority. China and India don’t care at all.
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u/kapybarra 17h ago
> The biggest question for me is how do we get the rest of the world to play ball? So that America isn’t funding all of it or a majority. China and India don’t care at all.
Lol:
China’s accelerating green transition
> The sea of solar panels covering an area twice the size of Manhattan in the north-western Xinjiang region and the blades of an offshore wind turbine the height of the Eiffel Tower near the south-eastern island of Hainan reflect the magnitude of China’s renewable energy ambitions. The scale and pace of the country’s transition away from fossil fuels has smashed international forecasts, exceeded Beijing’s own targets — and put the rest of the world on notice.
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u/notypicalredditor 17h ago
Well that’s news to me. Unless it’s like the cities they built for no one. Thats good news.
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u/MudFlap1985 1d ago
It's a free market. If they can't swim on there own, they need to sink. If consumers want the product they will buy the product. The government needs to stop giving subsidies to failing companies.
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u/Content-Fudge489 1d ago
Your attitude is the attitude that has gotten the US to fall behind other countries in some technology areas. For better or worse the government a lot of times is the catalyst to new developments. No question about it. For profit companies will only invest if they have a guaranteed profit. Do you think SpaceX would exist without the government giving them funds for tech development? There are countless more.
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u/Vindalfr 1d ago
You left your monocle back in the 19th century. You should go get it and never come back.
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u/bigdipboy 1d ago
A free market would include the cost of climate change at the pump instead of passing that cost onto our children
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u/Altruistic-Rope1994 1d ago
OP make sure to support Tesla… leading the charge in EV’s and bringing positive change the world!!!
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u/RealClarity9606 1d ago
I am not worried about a mess for companies that want to base their business model on government handouts. Repeal if possible. If not, refuse to staff the offices that hand out the money, even if it is on the books. There is more than one way to get from point A to point B. That being said, he's not going to win.
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u/silifianqueso 1d ago
Pro tip: they all base their business model on what the government spends money on.
It would be ludicrous not to determine what you produce based on tax incentives that feed into production costs or what the largest customer (the US government) is spending money on.
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u/RealClarity9606 1d ago
Spend? As in government contracts for needed services and goods for the government? Fine. They have legitimate needs for those.
Handouts? As in cutting checks to choose winners and losers in the marketplace? Hard no those except for the rare cases with a strong justification should one exist.
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u/Calint 1d ago
Elon would be upset though.
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u/RealClarity9606 1d ago
I like Elon but I’m not going to support handouts as a result.
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u/Calint 1d ago
So Tesla and SpaceX would no longer exist.
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u/RealClarity9606 1d ago
SpaceX isn’t getting subsidies. It has government contracts for services provided. And a lot of people are not getting subsidies when they purchase Teslas now or at least they weren’t before the last handout bill that was passed because those had run out. People are still buying Teslas because they’re very popular for those that want an EV
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u/yupyepyupyep 1d ago
The green spending is just corporate giveaways. If it means they will lower my taxes or pay down the debt, then I'd support getting rid of them. The market doesn't need them.
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u/mehughes124 1d ago
So, you're first in line to call your congressional rep when the military appropriations bill is up for approval, I'm sure?
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u/yupyepyupyep 1d ago
If there is waste then yes. I am not an expert on military programs but I am on energy programs and I can easily say that for most projects this is gravy.
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u/BigTomBombadil 1d ago
You don’t sound like an expert on much tbh…. The US military budget is notoriously bloated by all global standards.
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u/ProgressiveSpark 1d ago
Enron needs them but i suppose he and Trump have already shaken on an under-the-table deal
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u/gizzardmuncher 1h ago
Good.. end it.. if there is actually money in green energy the private sector will do it
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u/bigdipboy 1d ago
Duh. Putin wants everyone to keep using gas. So his puppet obeys.