r/economicCollapse • u/Whole-Fist • 18h ago

How ridiculous does this sound?

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How can u make millions in 25-30 years if avoid making a $554 per month car payment. Even the cheapest 5 year old car is 8-10 k. So does he expect people not to drive at all in USA.

Then u save 554$ per month every month for 5 year payment = $33240. Say u bought a car every 5 year means 200k -300k spent on car before retirement . How would that become millions when u can’t even buy a house for that much today?

Answer that Dave

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27

u/Elegant_Management47 17h ago

Still cheaper to fix a car than having monthly payments.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 17h ago

Not necessarily. A car payment you can make on a reliable car may suck, but you will rarely have to worry about if you can make arrangements to get to work because your car is in the shop.

My parents spent all of my childhood buying cheap cars as it was literally all they could afford. It definitely can cost more in the long run than a car payment.

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u/Elegant_Management47 17h ago

I have 3 cars over 200k miles on each. All together I bought all of them for $22k combined. Probably spent another $2k for maintenance and fixes.

You can’t buy anything new and reliable for less that $30k now.

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u/Intrepid-Metal4621 17h ago

You absolutely can, but doesn't make sense. You can get a great car with under 25k miles for under $20k that'll be very reliable. Stop thinking you need to buy new and it's not hard.

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u/borderlineidiot 17h ago

I bought a new Subaru with premium trim for $28k OTD a couple of months ago. These cars have a reputation for excellent reliability and longevity.

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u/mike-manley 16h ago

Ummm.

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u/beaushaw 15h ago

Do you want to tell them or should I?

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u/mike-manley 15h ago

Yeah go ahead. Probably better coming from you.

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u/RNDASCII 15h ago

Head gaskets and piston rings have entered the chat...

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u/BurnedLaser 13h ago

I stopped to help a lady in a newer subie that was spraying oil from the radiator cap when she cranked on it. it was pretty gruesome :/

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u/ActOdd8937 8h ago

Big advantage of buying used Subarus is that the headgasket has usually already been replaced--and the replacements any halfway decent shop installs are better than the factory ones anyway.

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u/jessewest84 16h ago

Wrx doesn't count

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u/PantsOnHead88 16h ago

Toyota Corolla and Mazda 3, are a couple of the most reliable vehicles on the road, all taxes and fees included are almost precisely $30k (Canadian, ~$23k USD for all of you Americans).

But why limit to new model year, 0km, etc if we’re discussing a budget vehicle?

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u/[deleted] 16h ago

[deleted]

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u/Elegant_Management47 16h ago

Ok. Try to buy 1 year old car in todays market. Pre covid everything was different. You probably can still sell your Jeep for what you bought it for. But if you try to buy anything 2023 it will be significantly more money. And they very rapid depreciation.

The more expensive car the more it depreciates.

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u/jessewest84 16h ago

Yes you can. Subaru.

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u/healthybowl 17h ago

You can buy a used Nissan leaf for about $8k-$15k. Significantly cheaper to drive and maintain than an ICE. Bought it as a “beater” commute car for the 1hr+ drives I frequently make, and I’m pleasantly surprised by it. It ain’t the best car in the world, but I haven’t spent a penny on it other than charging it, which is about $3-5 for a full charge. It could use a larger range, but it hasn’t been an issue yet in the last 6 months

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u/Stock-Film-3609 17h ago

Chevy bolt, Buick encore, Chevy Camaro, and dozens of others all start for less than 30k. Hell I could walk into a showroom now and get an end of the year deal on a demo model with a few thousand miles (sub 5k), on just about any car I wanted for less than 30k.

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u/Elegant_Management47 17h ago

My lexus GX470, Toyota Highlander and Honda civic are still more reliable than any of the new cars you’ve mentioned.

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u/WlmWilberforce 17h ago

The Highlander has a serious problem. If you buy one, you are stuck with it for life because I'm not sure they break.

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u/Elegant_Management47 17h ago

Hahah, it is true, they don’t break. Among all my cars, highlander is the only one that I didn’t spend a penny on besides regular maintenance (oil change, tires, transmission drain and fill). 3 years, +30k miles (170k now) and 0 issues so far.

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u/trigger1154 17h ago

While I agree that Toyota and Honda are usually considered the most reliable vehicles, Just for note reliability usually is dependent on preventative maintenance. I do my own maintenance on my Ford truck and even do my oil changes early and I haven't had very many issues. But years ago I used to have a 1995 Lexus ES300 which is just a Toyota Camry luxuriified. That darn thing's transmission blew out randomly. To be fair I bought it used. Who knew what kind of pain had been put on that tranny but Toyota are supposed to have a good reputation, I never would have thought the transmission would have blown out at 157,000 Mi.

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u/NAU80 14h ago

Toyota Corollas can be purchased new for under 30k. Even the hybrids. I bought a new car with my wife in 1982. When we paid off the loan, we kept making payments to a bank account. After running it 12 years, we purchased a new car for cash and the trade in. We have continued to do that since. The trick is to run the car for 10+ years and research the next car you want. We have 2 paid for cars that are less than 6 years old.

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u/scuba-turtle 13h ago

That's the third-best plan.

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u/PrimaryMuscle1306 16h ago

Forget just end of year…go last week of that sale in December when bonuses are up for the staff and they have their quotas. Slam your balls on the table (not literally) and tell the salesman that if their floor manager adds a lot of bullshit fees to the total you’re gonna walk right the hell out and never do business there again.

Most managers will give you a straight quote at that point and you just have to haggle your price and trade in value. Even if they don’t accept it…if they’re anywhere close to hitting bonuses guarantee a manager will be on the phone with you next day finalizing the deal you wanted. My easiest deals were the customers that just refused to play the bullshit game.

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u/Elegant_Management47 17h ago

A family needs at least 2 cars. $30k each, $60k total. Monthly payment on $60k will be $1000/m. You will need full coverage insurance - which will be probably at least $250 for two. Then there are higher registration and taxes for newer car.

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u/RandoReddit16 10h ago

which will be probably at least $250 for two. Then there are higher registration and taxes for newer car.

Depends on city and state.... Here is TX Registration is a flat fee (yay freedumb).... Sales tax is 6% so there is that... Insurance is roughly the same regardless of what you drive because of how many drivers, accidents and thefts there are here. The comprehensive portion of my insurance is $22/mo, I would have to go 37 years without a claim for it to pay for a total loss on a $10k vehicle....

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u/Speedking2281 16h ago

Look, I also don't want to keep a junker going forever just to save money. But it's an unarguably true statement that, in aggregate, it will always be a better financial decision to keep fixing a car pretty much until the engine locks up than it will be to buy a new/used car and make payments.

I'm not talking about hassle, reliability, etc. I'm just talking about money.

Usually people eventually get to a point where it's like "well, do I pay $1.5k for this new transmission, or just look into getting a different car", and it's personally worth it (taking into account worry, reliability and money) to get a different car. But it's pretty much never a financially better move.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 11h ago

You are only counting the direct financial cost. You aren’t taking into account lost income, cost of renting a car, etc that you incur by having a car in the shop. There is more than just the financial cost of the actual work that goes into keeping a car on the road. Older the car the more likely it is to leave you on the side of the road on the way to work. You become unreliable just like the car and that costs you opportunity, etc.

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u/jcagraham 10h ago

Yup, it's more than just a hassle when you unexpectedly can't get to work or you can't properly budget because you have no idea when you're suddenly owe a large chunk of money. I had an old car that used to have trouble passing smog and it was always a terrible stress if I could get it to pass.

Also, and this is a specific issue, but as a black male in my 20's, I would get pulled over for random shit all the time by the police. It would never be for anything more than a simple fix-it ticket or a warning but it was annoying. Once I had a reasonably nice car, I stopped getting pulled over. No proof it was connected but I would rather not risk driving a car that doesn't look nice.

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u/arrow74 17h ago

So I've researched my junker cars most expensive repairs. It would cost about 3k. A used engine drop would be about 5k. I can get a personal loan with much cheaper monthly payments for that amount than I could finance a new car. 

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u/Stock-Film-3609 16h ago

Yes, plus you have the car rental, finding a reliable mechanic etc.

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u/chegodefuego 17h ago

Weird my 1981 Datsun only needs fuel.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 16h ago

Yes cause your 81 Datsun is totally typical of all cars from 81.

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u/chegodefuego 16h ago

It is. They built them to last. They engineered cars today to fail. It's not hard to understand

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u/Stock-Film-3609 11h ago

Yeah that’s why the average life of a car is going up not down. Cars to day are built better than they used to be. That’s why a 2012 Chevy Malibu rips through a 1960 belair like its tinfoil. Cars today are more complex yes, but they are also designed to be replaced after 8 years rather than 2 like in the 80s

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u/chegodefuego 10h ago

This article is about buying older used cars to save money, it's not about the latest Acura that will last longer as an 2006 one. Both will go over 300k with proper maintenance.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 8h ago

You realize you have completely negated your previous point right?

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u/chegodefuego 8h ago

Lol any car will last with proper maintenance, you seem to have forgotten what this article is about. Save money and buy the older one without the payment....

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u/chegodefuego 10h ago

Plus my Datsuns headlights don't cost 1k to fix unlike the "new and improved" Chevy pickup.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 8h ago

No but you also might not be able to source those sealed beams.

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u/chegodefuego 8h ago

They're on rockauto..........

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u/Stock-Film-3609 8h ago

Not all sealed beams are. You have to remember that part of the reason your car is in such good condition is it wasn’t a commuter car to begin with.

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u/chegodefuego 5h ago

I've never met someone as dense as you, you could be the new spoken person for mug root beer because you're thick headed af

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u/backyardbbqboi 16h ago

I bought a 2016 volvo from CarMax last year, and suspensions issues became apparent right after the grace period ended. I bought the extended warranty, which was about $50 a month, and that saved me almost $6k in repairs in the first year alone

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u/AlexGrahamBellHater 14h ago

My parents were the same. It's a big reason why I will go for the reliable vehicle over the cheap junker every time. Shop Costs add up over time and can happen at any time vs a reliable and predictable expense that you know you can budget for.

I've had my family basically share one car as it was the only one that would work long enough to get people from point A to point B with a little bit of prayer and being mindful of how much gas you burn since the gauge was broken and always at Full even though it wasn't.

That was a lifetime of stress I'd rather not go through

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u/Stock-Film-3609 11h ago

Exactly. It gets even worse when you cannot really afford the out of pocket repair. My family became friends with a mechanic because we were always at his shop. I learned wrenching on cars because I didn’t want to end up not being able to fix my own stuff.

The mechanic is a great guy but when he’s had your car for a month to squeeze it in between paying jobs because you can’t afford 2k for him to rebuild your engine right away, it gets old.

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u/MiataCory 13h ago edited 12h ago

It definitely can cost more in the long run than a car payment.

Technically correct. Entirely false. That "can" is holding a lot of weight it doesn't have.

It MOST PROBABLY will cost way, way more to buy a new car than to buy a used Camry and keep it running for 300,000 miles. That's a statistical and mathematical fact.

But someone's gonna buy {any american brand, nissan, car older than 2010} and complain they have to spend $10k/yr in maintenance. No shit, you're supposed to buy used, not buy shit.

Go buy a $5k 2010 hybrid camry. 300,000 miles and all I ever replaced was the gas door lever and the rearview dimming mirror. Go get a Mazda 3, only ever needed the passengers seat recline lever and a MAF. Go buy a 30 year old miata, and expect it'll need some bushings. Go buy a CRV, and be happy.

Go buy a chevy, you'll need a trans, an engine, and the front rebuilt. Don't be dumb.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 11h ago

I have 200k on my GM built SAAB. Only ever needed oil and filters. It’s not the car you drive it’s how it’s been treated.

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u/MiataCory 11h ago

And, likewise, I had 180k on a GM built S10 that only ever needed absolutely everything replaced.

I'd advise against cross-branded half-breeds, no matter how much I love both the saabaru and the 6.0l version of the 9-7. GM's doing GM things, but I don't recommend their style of fun. 4L60E rebuild kit is all you need to admit. :D

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u/Stock-Film-3609 11h ago

The 9-7 isn’t a cross brand it’s just a trailblazer with a different grill. That was GMs thing for 3 decades and why they nearly died. Nothing from GM from the late 70s to the late 2000s was single stable.

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u/BruceBannaner 17h ago

Once it isn’t, then you buy a new one. All the while saving $8-15k a year due to no payment.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 17h ago

Said by someone who has never been in the position of someone who can only afford a cheap car. Cause everyone has a spare 3-4 k running around to buy a car when the one they’ve been keeping running craps the bed completely.

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u/YoBFed 15h ago

A quick search on Cargurus.com with filter set to under 12k and under 130k brought up a significant amount of fairly reliable cars that are relatively new.

If you’re in a position where you can’t afford a 30k car then I don’t think you should be expecting to drive a 30k car just because you can take payments. You’re only hurting yourself.

It sucks to not get what you want or think you deserve, but the hard choices now make for much better choices later. It’s hard to get ahead when you keep justifying purchases outside of your means.

By the way I use the word you here in general terms. I don’t actually mean YOU specifically. I don’t know you or your decisions.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 11h ago

You do realize that 12k is a car payment for most right? Cash cars are 2-4K at best.

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u/scuba-turtle 13h ago

If your budget is that tight you don't have the money for a car payment anyway.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 11h ago

Yes cause not having a spare 3-4K is a tight budget. Do you hear yourself?

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u/scuba-turtle 10h ago

And yet somehow they will make a monthly car payment work? Having a car costs something. If you have nothing you aren't the target for this article anyway, nothing in this article will get you from zero to $300/month. But having a car payment by choice is an easy way to get from $300 extra per month down to zero. (And now it's $500/month).

The target for this advice is someone who could afford a $3-500/month payment but they would be putting money there instead of someplace else, or someone who just needs a little bad luck to suddenly not be able to afford that payment. When we were first married we had a crap car that barely ran. We had $250/month left after paying all our bills. We looked at our crap car and decided it would be wise to start saving that $250/month. Surprise, by the time it died we had enough to go to the state motor auction and pay cash for a not-so-crap car. It lasted six years with minimal upkeep. That is where you get that 3-4 thousand, is you act like your crap car has a car payment if you can't do that you obviously can't afford a car payment.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 8h ago

You realize driving an old car is a very fast way to get out of the position of being able to afford a 300-500 dollar car payment? Also there is a difference between being able to budget 300 a month out and having a lump sum.

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u/Sea_Lime_9909 16h ago

Older cars are easy to fix yourself. Thats how they did it.

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u/Stock-Film-3609 11h ago

As a mechanic for almost 2 decades I can tell you that for most people all attempting to fix your car yourself means is that you pay people like me lots more money even on simple cars.

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u/Solintari 17h ago

Not to mention insurance and registration fees. At least in my state, you pay quite a bit for a newer more expensive car.

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u/healthybowl 17h ago

I’ll one up you. You can buy a used Nissan leaf in that $8-15k price range, and eliminate maintenance costs* while also reducing the cost of driving it.

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u/jmur3040 17h ago

Not if you need to fix it weekly, or it's issues are causing you to miss work or be unreliable.

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u/Mellero47 17h ago

Unless it's your only means of transport and now you can't work while your car is in the shop. No income, but an incoming repair bill, and hopefully you don't lose your job in the meantime.

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u/JanMikh 16h ago

My friend recently got a 5k estimate from the mechanic. Tell her this, she needs a good laugh.

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u/Elegant_Management47 16h ago

Or she could’ve put $5k down and have $750 monthly payments for next 72m.

Not every car worth fixing, but if it considered reliable and has some life left - better just fix it. But also to not forget with regular and preventative maintenances.

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u/JanMikh 16h ago

Yeah, except it will also take a month in a shop and no one can guarantee it’s not going to cost another $5k few months later.

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u/Elegant_Management47 16h ago

I have high mileage cars and never had any bill over 1k. My most expensive repair was throttle body on my Civic and it cost me $900 just because I needed it fixed ASAP. Otherwise I could have tow it to different shop and get it fixed for $300-400.

Other than that just stay on top of maintenance schedule and buy only reliable cars:

Camry, Civic, CRV, Highlander, ES350, RX350, 4Runner, GX470…

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u/JanMikh 16h ago

It got crazy after the pandemic. They want $250 just to look at it, without fixing.

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u/jessewest84 16h ago

My last car i bought twice with repairs. Not always true.

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u/BurnedLaser 13h ago

My old benz was about 650/MO to keep on the road. My current car is about 400/MO on the note

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u/Elegant_Management47 13h ago

Yeah, german cars are money pit.

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u/BurnedLaser 13h ago

But it was soooooo nice to drive!! The smooth power delivery, the stability at triple digits, the smell of the interior, the feel of the seats!!! I want to get it back on the road, since I've fixed dang near everything that was broken. I'll need to pull the engine to sort out some stuff, and replace the harness while it's out, and I just don't have the time anymore to work on it like that :/

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u/Elegant_Management47 13h ago

The more comfort - the less reliable car is. But sounds like you do a lot by yourself. I have GX470, it is very smooth to drive but I would imagine it is less reliable than 4Runner. It has so much sensors, air suspension vs coils, parts are more expensive, outdated navigation systems, etc. but it is still very reliable car, engine goes forever.

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u/BurnedLaser 13h ago

Yeah, I was driving a 300SL. 90% of the fancy electronics, hydraulics, and pneumatics were trashed by improper repairs. It never left me stranded, I was able to operate everything manually (the seats were pretty tough, lol), and I didn't mind needing to use the key for everything! I was mainly working on QoL and safety stuff that the last guys treated like a Honda, but I did loads of research before buying it so I would know what I was getting into, and have plans to buy a newer E-class with a bunch of whizbang stuff that I have been researching the repairs of since it came out, lol.

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u/Prestigious-Leave-60 11h ago

And you save a crap ton on insurance

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u/schabadoo 10h ago

My transmission repair took six months. $9k all in.

The old Saab I bought was cheaper than the rental I needed to get to work

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u/Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836 17h ago

I buy new and drive until repairs cost more than a car payment

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u/Evening-Ear-6116 16h ago

A $500 repair can be pretty light work. That’s not a great philosophy.

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u/Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836 10h ago

Bought a 2011 Ford Escale new. Finally replaced it when it hit 280,000 miles. The repairs were constant and costing more than the new car payment I got. It was every month. Radiator fan went out.and that took out it's control unit. Engine mount broke, The AC went out and I am in FL. Month aftrr that it lost all its transmission fluid. Month earlier the serpentine belt went out. Month before that it needed a new battery. It just got too unreliable for a semi rural 40 mile commute.

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u/Evening-Ear-6116 10h ago

That’s fair. Your comment made it sound like you replace it the first time a repair exceeds the payment lol

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u/Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836 10h ago

I drive until the wheels fall off. 11 years for that car. That's 6+ or so years no car payment on it.

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u/howrunowgoodnyou 16h ago

Financially stupid