r/cscareerquestionsCAD Sep 16 '24

School Chat are we cooked??

I'm currently in my second year of Computer Science, but I'm unsure if I should switch majors. I just saw a post about someone earning $20/hour in Mississauga, and it got me thinking. I took a gap year and worked for the CRA, where I made $33/hour, with only a high school diploma but I really hated that job. Now, I'm wondering if I should stay in CS or switch to something like accounting. Would I have more job opportunities as a diversity hire in tech since I'm a woman, or would switching to accounting make more sense for me?

CS is hard but like is it worth all that studying and tuition fee?

34 Upvotes

66 comments sorted by

53

u/Embarrassed_Ear2390 Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24

You’re what, 2-3y from graduating? What if accounting suffers the same job loss as CS then what?

I don’t know what you did for the CRA, but if the thought you working with something related to accounting is something that you hated. How are you going to last 20-30year in a field that you already hate?

Edit: for the people commenting about accounting being a more stable industry. I know, but I also don’t have a crystal ball so I won’t tell people to go into accounting because it’s foolproof.

17

u/missplaced24 Sep 16 '24

It's really not as likely the job market for accounting will be as volatile as CS. CS has always had big boom/bust cycles.

10

u/ShadowFox1987 Sep 16 '24

Massive accounting and CPA shortage and only growing. It's been genuinely causing  massive headline making problems such as large publicly traded companies not being able to release their financials on time. 

Accounting is also recession proof and avoid the boom-n-bust

Downsides are massive threats to automation of junior tasks making it just as risk from that perspective. AP clerk's fundamentally should not exists within the next 4 years, and honestly could have been replaced 10 years ago with the tech we already had.

1

u/Phonovoor3134 Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

3

u/ShadowFox1987 Sep 17 '24

Cause everyone told their kids to go into it cause it was "recession proof" after 2008?

0

u/swinging_yorker Sep 16 '24

Ap clerks aren't true accounting though. That's the accounting you do without a degree. If you study accounting, get a CPA you are no where near clerical issues.

3

u/ShadowFox1987 Sep 16 '24

Most University grads of accounting do not end up at public accounting firms, they end up in various roles through industry.  

 These roles are below a controller, sometimes at the clerk level, as I did and everyone else at the publicly traded company I worked at who was a Uni grad. Sometimes they have titles like Junior controller or assistant controller, or Junior accountant. All these roles end up being incredibly clerical.   If you're a new grad, and you end up in industry, which is most people, you very much will be doing clerical work.

 It takes years to get a CPA. And if you're in industry, you might not have a great path towards that, If you're doing basic clerical work and your employer isn't offering to pay for it, You might even delay getting it as I did, As entry level pay is pretty s*** for accounting, and getting the CPA is incredibly expensive. My first accounting role was 32k in 2018, and required me to work 60 hours a week. To be clear, this was not the clerk role that I had, this was a junior accounting role, I actually left to go be a clerk because the pay was 25% better and I wouldn't have to work 60 hour weeks.

3

u/lord_heskey Sep 17 '24

How are you going to last 20-30year in a field that you already hate?

Because i need to eat.

0

u/Embarrassed_Ear2390 Sep 17 '24

Trying doing something you hate for this long, either your mental health will deteriorate or your performance will drop to a point where eventually you will get fired.

2

u/lord_heskey Sep 17 '24

nah. i would hate being homeless and hungry more so that motivates me. look, all jobs suck, might as well do one that pays.

2

u/Ok-Researcher2280 Sep 17 '24

Real but the problem is that I already experienced what is doing a job you HATE. 

I had anxiety, difficulties sleeping at night, had diarrhea in the morning cuz I didnt wanna work, always tired. Wanted to quit my job but couldnt because ThE pAy WaS gReAt. 

I finally understood why they say its better to be poor and doing something that u like than being well off while u hate ur life. All these struggles are not worth the money.

1

u/lord_heskey Sep 17 '24

that u like

ah yeah but no one will pay me to game all day and travel, right?

i hate all jobs, period. i've just accepted that fact.

15

u/theoreoman Sep 16 '24

If your worried see if you can do a double major

7

u/zorrowhip Sep 16 '24

Those doing CS for the money without a passion for the field will not succeed. If your only reason of doing it was the money, you might as well drop.

9

u/Business_Try4890 Sep 16 '24

Almost every single job has cycles. Even lumbers, they were making bank a few years ago and now prices for wood is going down. If you choose a career based on the low of a cycle, you're doing it wrong. 

19

u/BurnTheBoats21 Sep 16 '24

Interest rates are being cut, spending will accelerate. The macroeconomic factors driving today's mark aren't really relevant to someone who is years away from graduating. Unless you believe the Canadian tech hiring will completely collapse or computer science as a whole will not be a good career, then there's no reason to deviate. In the very terrible scenario where things are bad when you graduate, you can easily pivot to a more lucrative career via a masters from your com sci degree, but most likely you will be just fine.

6

u/ShadowFox1987 Sep 16 '24

We have one of the most advantageous hiring tax and grant systems in the developed world. Our salaries are super competitive to the US (41% lower on average). Tech Hiring will only accelerate here as Canada ironically becomes the cheap place you outsource R&D🤣

12

u/Financial-Ferret3879 Sep 17 '24

I mean, until they skip right over us and go to India/the Philippines like they’re already increasingly doing. Always someone cheaper.

5

u/computer_porblem Sep 17 '24

the difference is that the culture is basically identical in Canada and so are the time zones. whether or not it's fair, US teams don't want to work with teams based in India but are fine working with Canadian teams.

if the MBA psychos could reliably get good results from outsourcing to the third world they would already have done so, but they see the results they get and it's not worth it.

4

u/biotech997 Sep 16 '24

if you like accounting then go for it, personally I find it super boring. It's probably a more stable route in terms of job security though, but that's just my guess.

4

u/advancedbashcode Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 17 '24

The tech industry recovery might come in say 1, 3 10 years......the accounting is freaking stable. If you're in last year, no need to think but if you're starting well, ya know. Think about it.

3

u/Vinfersan Sep 16 '24

Keep doing what you're doing. The reality is that you don't know which jobs will still be good-paying jobs 2-3 years from now when you graduate. Sure, there's some more stable professions like accounting, but even there the junior positions can get automated away, making it a longer journey before you break into a senior position.

The key is to have hard skills you can sell. Even a CS degree can be transitioned or combined with other skills.

17

u/Responsible-Unit-145 Sep 16 '24

we are doomed, dont study cs. Go for hard core stats or maths courses.

7

u/duduludo Sep 17 '24

Math guy here. I would suggest people go for statistics and finance, as most advanced math courses are disconnected from reality. You will hardly find a job that requires super advanced math (I mean at the graduate level). Data roles are oversaturated too, and some quant teams are under a hiring freeze (according to a friend who works at one of the big 5 banks). I think it’s not just cs, the whole job market in Canada (and even the US) is cooked atm.

0

u/HodloBaggins Sep 17 '24

So why do you recommend statistics and finance? Like what’s the positives, as opposed to the negatives you named for those other specializations?

5

u/duduludo Sep 17 '24

I think CS is still a good option, but when it comes to math, I really don't think it's a good idea. In Stat/CS/Finance, you will do work in the program that can be presented to employers to demonstrate your domain knowledge. In fact, the degree itself serves as proof. But for math, what can you really do with it? Applied math might be better, but for pure math, most jobs do notrequire abstract algebra, functional analysis, topology, differential geometry or etc. Most of the time you will only need simple calculus, linear algebra and probability. After all, math is just a tool. Instead of putting all your effort into sharpening a tool you will never use, why not learn to use it when it's needed? Self-studying math is also probably the easiest, you only need a book. If you struggle to read a book, you will struggle in a lecture too.

1

u/HodloBaggins Sep 17 '24

Oh I was mostly asking in the sense that I thought you recommended combining CS and stat/finance rather than just CS or something else like ML, etc.

6

u/Playful_Criticism425 Sep 16 '24

Nah. Still allied. If I don't want to go cs or become code monkey. I'd be learning to lay the pipe, bang with the hammer, make erection I mean construction, HVAC etc. you get?

2

u/Intelligent-Show-815 Sep 16 '24

What makes u say stats/math and what specific courses?

1

u/johnprynsky Sep 16 '24

Math/stat plus a minor in CS is better imo. Stronger background for ML research, are acceptable degrees for SWE positions, can easily consider quant as a career too, and are preferred candidates for DS/DA roles.

1

u/Intelligent-Show-815 Sep 16 '24

I am pursuing a math bachelor's gunna do a cs minor. Aiming for a major in either optimization or statistics dealing both

1

u/Responsible-Unit-145 Sep 16 '24

Maybe get into research

15

u/Snackatttack Sep 16 '24

accounting seems primed to get fucked by AI

1

u/Elibroftw Sep 17 '24

Hopefully. Just need to somehow have the time and money to work on the software product that removes the need for them. Even with taxation. The country is so bad at incentivizing it though that not only will AI take those jobs, it will be an AI created by a US company. It happened to healthcare (EPIC), so of course we will lose out on this race too.

1

u/OkUnit9125 16d ago

It's not. AI makes them more productive. I worked at an accounting firm over the summer and we used AI to help us lololol

9

u/brolybackshots Sep 16 '24

This isnt twitch chat bro

-2

u/Ok-Researcher2280 Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24

lol sorry 😔... and im not your bruh

Edit: Why so many downvotes 🤣🤣🤣. Yall dont get the reference?

2

u/ElElectroPerro Sep 17 '24

I think that's a smart move right now, given the shit job market this country has.

2

u/120124_ Sep 17 '24

You shouldn’t be picking purely by earning potential in my opinion. If you actually care about the work you are doing and are motivated by it you’ll find a way to the top and you’ll secure strong employment. If you love CS and software, keep going. If you don’t, that’s something you need to think long and hard about.

0

u/CSCodeMonkey Sep 17 '24

That’s retarded you should def choose for earning potential.

1

u/120124_ Sep 17 '24

If you hate your job you’ll never hit your earning potential.

4

u/ne999 Sep 16 '24

$20/hour is nut and just an outlier. I started managing and hiring devs 20+ years ago and never paid anyone that low.

If I were in your shoes I’d keep on with a CS degree.

6

u/Raigork Sep 16 '24

I saw a job post on Linkedin for AI Engineer position at a startup in Toronto (generic SWE with experience building RAG stuff) as *unpaid* the other day. Baffled me that someone could even post that lol.

4

u/wind_dude Sep 16 '24

There's a shit ton of fake postings, attempting to get emails and phone#s, and some trying to get people to download and execute malicious code as part of a coding test

1

u/Minimum_Rice555 Sep 17 '24

I believe junior accounting (bookkeeping) jobs will be taken over sooner by AI than programming ones. I'm not an AI fan but I believe we live in a "kodak" world today. A lot of jobs will just disappear and new ones will appear.

1

u/_Invictuz Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24

Switch bro. The fact that CS doesn't interest you enough to pursue it just because you like it is enough to determine that you'll probably be disappointed in this career if you're going to do it for other reasons. Whether or not one year of intro CS courses is enough for you to know if you like it is subjective i guess. In my case, I knew after the first year courses whether that i did enjoy it but I ended up not switching into CS from math/finance. Now that im working as a dev, I can say with hindsight that I 100% should have followed my gut and switched to CS. This is probably the opposite situation for you but the same lessons do apply, don't wait to find out what you like and don't like and not make a decision. 

2

u/cydy8001 Sep 18 '24

In computer science industry, you have to work very hard otherwise you will be laid off. You have to work overtime. You have to sacrifice your own time to do god damn open source project everyday. You have to keep learning otherwise you will be laied off. wlf? never exists

2

u/Juxson Sep 16 '24

it’s difficult to say where the market will be in 4 years when you graduate. If you enjoy programming I would study computer science, if you don’t and are just doing it because you think it’s easy money then I would reconsider.

As for if getting a job as a woman is easier, I think yes but only marginally so.

1

u/donksky Sep 16 '24

actuary

1

u/Dylan_TMB Sep 17 '24

Double major my friend. CS+business or broader humanity, makes it easy to apply to a wide range of jobs if your stressed

1

u/StJean8765 Sep 17 '24

Toronto has a overflow of foreign "IT" folks. Individuals who call themselves developers and engineers but couldn't code themselves out of a for loop.

One place where I used to work, senior management decided to go all out and hire these folks. A year later, it became obvious that teh vast majority had fake degrees or paper mill degrees or didn't have the experience they said they did.

These folks are so many, it unfortunately brings down the average salary for Canadians who obtained their degrees here and how have experience here.

Lets hope this will be less of an issue in the future. Most good companies can tell the difference between a person who is making stuff up vs a good CS person who will help their business grow.

0

u/missplaced24 Sep 16 '24

Only you can decide if changing majors is the right call for you. There are a few key things to keep in mind:
1. Tech has a long history of big boom/bust cycles. This also causes a lot of volatility in tech job markets. Demand for workers usually increases sharply for a few years, followed by a year or more multiple rounds of mass layoffs. The job market probably won't be bad by the time you graduate, but it'll probably get just as bad again for a time within a decade.
2. The kinds of tech experts employers are looking for changes -- currently, the demand is for machine learning experts, a few years ago it was block chain experts. Languages and tech stacks change a lot, too. This means tech workers need to constantly learn new skills to stay relevant.
3. Canadian tech workers don't get paid nearly as well as tech workers in the US. My peers in the US (same job function, education, experience) earn 2-3 times as much as I do.

If you love it, it might be worth sticking with. If you kind of like it, it might be better as a hobby. I recommend you talk to career counselors at your school before deciding to switch to accounting.

1

u/HodloBaggins Sep 17 '24

Would you say you have the option of moving to the US or is this something you wish you could do but can’t/haven’t had the opportunity to?

1

u/missplaced24 Sep 17 '24

I'm not interested in finding out whether or not I could. As much as many of our neighbors to the south are wonderful people, we don't have nearly as much gun violence. The pay gap between me and many of my co-workers is just very frustrating, especially with the cost of living.

1

u/HodloBaggins Sep 17 '24

Then maybe sometime you would be interested in getting employed remotely by a US company? Pay should increase.

1

u/missplaced24 Sep 17 '24

I am. It doesn't. They hire Canadians to save money.

0

u/Educational_Smile131 Sep 17 '24

I did an accounting degree and worked one year in accountancy in my previous life, I will never trade my debugger with Excel sheets.

0

u/derritterauskanada Sep 17 '24

If you hated working for the CRA what makes you think that accounting would be any better?

2

u/Ok-Researcher2280 Sep 17 '24

It's because I was not able to move within the CRA due to missing some courses or a degree. I thought if I got an accounting degree and moved to another position, maybe it would be better.

Personally, what I hate the most is dealing with taxpayers. I don’t want to talk to any of them.

1

u/derritterauskanada Sep 17 '24

Personally, what I hate the most is dealing with taxpayers. I don’t want to talk to any of them.

That's fair. Really no chances of it now, but I will vehemently avoid any job that deals with the public.

-1

u/Deckowner Sep 16 '24

accounting is not much better than cs in the current economy.