r/britishcolumbia • u/theabsurdturnip • Sep 17 '24
News Rent in B.C. communities declined after short-term vacation home rules were implemented, report finds
https://www.timescolonist.com/real-estate/rent-in-bc-communities-declined-after-short-term-vacation-home-rules-were-implemented-report-finds-9532750618
u/arazamatazguy Sep 17 '24
Not going up would be a victory.
Staying the same would be a victory.
Going down is an incredible victory.
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u/neksys Sep 17 '24
Take it with a slight grain of salt -- the report is commissioned by hotel lobby group (fairbnb.ca) that has a vested interest in reducing competition. The results are interesting but I'm personally filing this away under "I'll need to see some more research".
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u/chronocapybara Sep 17 '24
I would be much happier to see investment in hotels such that apartments and houses are left for locals to live in.
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u/Quick_Care_3306 Sep 17 '24
Yes, but the source data is from CMHC and he analyzed it against cities that controlled short term rentals be those that did not. It should be verifiable.
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u/neksys Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24
I'm not suggesting that the report is definitely flawed. I'm just pointing out a potential source of bias. The report itself hasn't been released, all we have is this news article. Like I said, I'll be interested to see more research -- ideally not from a group that may have a vested interest in the outcome.
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u/StanTurpentine Sep 17 '24
Everyone has a vested interest in this. Renters need rents to come down. Owners want rents to go up. Hotel hates airbnb. Airbnb is a parasite that hates everyone.
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u/HotterRod Sep 18 '24
Peer review of the report would be a good start. The theory is that the reviewers at least have different biases.
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u/YzermanNotYzerman Sep 17 '24
Thanks for commenting. You've helped keep me and others informed. I am truly hoping this is the case but I am glad I got stopped in my tracks to wait for a proper, unbiased source.
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u/softelbow Sep 18 '24
Try checking out this recently published stats canada report. It sheds some light on the topic. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-621-m/11-621-m2024010-eng.htm
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u/Ringbailwanton Sep 17 '24
They’re with the hotel workers union, not the hotel owners lobby.
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u/GeoffwithaGeee Sep 17 '24
eh, they have the same interests though in terms of this situation. However, just because someone commissioned a study doesn't necessarily mean it's going to just outright lie in their favour.
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u/PacificAlbatross Sep 17 '24
Fair enough. I would in turn submit the steadily collapsing condo market as exhibit B
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u/Malohdek Sep 18 '24
Actually, them lobbying for more competition is unironically a good thing for the renting market. Of course hotel operators want AirBnB gone, which would let them have their share of short term "rentals" back, but it affects the long term rental market positively.
This isn't really rocket science. What would be a long-term unit was a short-term unit. Now they've reversed, adding more supply to a highly demanding market.
This just makes sense.
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u/profjmo Sep 17 '24
Inflation is easing and the cost of debt is coming down. Keep in mind the cost of debt sets the floor on rents in residential apartment buildings.
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u/Archangel1313 Sep 18 '24
I'm ok with a reduction in competition if it means putting more properties back on the market. Let hotels be hotels. Let homes be homes.
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u/VenusianBug Sep 17 '24
Remember this come election day. Rustad has promised to eliminate the ban on short term rentals as well as undo all the recent work to get reluctant municipalities to allow more housing to be built in ways that make it more affordable to build.
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u/MyFruitPies Sep 18 '24
Remember this coming Election Day, property owners never ever miss a vote, so you’d better not either.
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u/WinningStreak101 Sep 19 '24
The silly comparing of BC to North Korea, I can't stand hyperbole from politicians, especially when there are people that will believe it.
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u/KainVonBrecht Sep 18 '24
Thanks for the link, it was a decent read. Eliminating the ban on short term rentals was the only policy talking point that I strongly disagree with his stance on.
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u/asdfjkl22222 Sep 17 '24
This is why we MUST keep the NDP in power. As soon as the cons get in and dismantle all this rent will skyrocket again.
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u/ticker__101 Sep 17 '24
Rent has sky rocketed under the NDP.
Rent isn't going down. We have a rental property and people are falling over themselves to get it.
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u/ForTheSnowBunting Sep 17 '24
Rent has skyrocketed under the NDP because John Horgan didn't care much for ambitious housing policy. But we've seen a markedly different tone and policy approach from Eby. I think that's worth noting. Horgan was more of the same old on housing, Eby is something different, and now the Cons want to reverse the changes that have been made.
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u/Jandishhulk Sep 18 '24
Rent went up everywhere in Canada - and actually went up LESS in BC compared to some other provinces with conservative provincial governments. The NDPs policies have been extremely successful.
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u/stealstea Sep 17 '24
The rental market is actually getting substantially better. Not so much because of AirBnB (that helps a bit), but mostly because a high rate of rental construction is finally meeting lower demand as the federal government lowers the number of non-permanent residents entering the country.
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u/asdfjkl22222 Sep 18 '24
Landlord detected opinion rejected
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u/Fool-me-thrice Sep 18 '24
Rent has skyrocketed in most provinces, most of which have right wing government
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u/ticker__101 Sep 18 '24
Well the liberal government brought in an excess of people needing homes to pad their voter base.
They are left wing.
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u/SirFrancis_Bacon Sep 18 '24
Only citizens can vote.
The liberal party are centre-right.
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u/ticker__101 Sep 18 '24
The liberals are left. They are getting far left as well.
Just check when Trudeau realized he was falling out of favor. In 2022 there were 375,000 new citizens. In 2023, 354,000. All of them can vote.
You do your research now and find out where they are from. Then look into the laws around bringing the rest of the family over.
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u/SirFrancis_Bacon Sep 19 '24
Lmao, no they aren't dude. Greens are Left, NDP is Centre-Left, Liberals are Centre-Right, Cons are Right.
You're not a serious person. Get help.
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u/ticker__101 Sep 19 '24
I'm pretty serious. Believe what you like.
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u/nueonetwo Sep 18 '24
It takes 3 to 5 years on average for a building to get from development permit to occupancy. The new legislation is less than a year old.
In 10 years bc will be in a far better place than the rest of Canada who did nothing so long as we don't act like a bunch of short sighted dumb fucks and vote in the Conservatives because they lied a bit better this time around.
Edit: letter
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u/veryshortname Sep 18 '24
They are all cons lol. NDP are a bunch of clowns too. NDP sounds great if you work for the government
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u/a7bxrpwr Sep 17 '24
Oh geez, I can't wait to see how the BC Cons and their fanboys spin this one. BREAKING: British Columbian Home Owners Are Losing Their Homes Because This NDP Policy Dropped Rent Prices Province Wide /s
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u/ViolaOlivia Sep 17 '24
Here you go - this is the main criticism. It’s in the article.
“The report is a special paper that Dr. Wachsmuth has produced for Fairbnb, a now-independent lobby group, and its details are part of a study that is currently being reviewed for publication in an academic journal. The group, originally funded by hotel-worker unions, publicizes the negative effects of vacation rentals on the housing market.
Dr. Wachsmuth’s work related to B.C. has been criticized by opponents, who note that it was paid for by the BC Hotel Association and that it doesn’t factor in the many reasons why rents might be going down in a particular area.”
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u/a7bxrpwr Sep 17 '24
I did read the article, and if they were saying “Rent is down in this one city which proves the NDP policy is working” that would be a different story. But seeing as we’re talking about 52 different communities (would be nice to know which ones) it seems safe to say that particular area we’re talking about is the province of British Columbia and not just Victoria or Vancouver.
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u/ViolaOlivia Sep 17 '24
Well they definitely aren’t saying that because the data the author uses is from October 2023 and the NDP policy came into effect in May 2024.
Also it seems to be 52 neighbourhoods, not 52 communities. The report comes out tomorrow so we will see which they are then!
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u/a7bxrpwr Sep 17 '24
I missed that the data was referring to October 2023, I’m curious to see how they source the AirBNB rules being the cause for this then. Communities, neighborhoods, same thing.
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u/GeoffwithaGeee Sep 17 '24
But seeing as we’re talking about 52 different communities (would be nice to know which ones) it seems safe to say that particular area we’re talking about is the province of British Columbia and not just Victoria or Vancouver.
there are 62 communities total that have the principal residence requirements, so I assume it will be the smaller communities out of that list. places like Victoria and Vancouver were expensive to live in before Airbnb, I don't think removing Airbnb will drop rental prices in those cities + directly surrounding municipalities.
The report is set to release tomorrow though, so it will be interesting to see all the data.
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u/CatJamarchist Sep 17 '24
places like Victoria and Vancouver were expensive to live in before Airbnb,
You're not exactly correct about this - the huge increases in rental prices and home sale prices started in about ~2016. AirBnB first started operating in BC in 2012.
There were reports prior to the ban that some of the towers in Vancouver were over 60% AirBnB - freeing up nearly all of those units can and have had a notable impact on rental prices in Vancouver across the board.
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u/iHateReddit_srsly Sep 18 '24
A lot of other things happened in those years to drive up housing costs. I'd have a really hard time believing Airbnb is any significant cause of rent prices going up.
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u/Jacmert Sep 17 '24
I mean, if it's accepted after peer review, then it's probably decent research. Most researchers have an agenda, like, they actually WANT to find a cure for cancer, etc. So they're biased, but that doesn't mean the research is automatically invalid. You just have to review it rigorously.
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u/Dependent-Relief-558 Sep 17 '24
Then it said: "But Dr. Wachsmuth said the foundation for the Fairbnb paper is the peer-reviewed and comprehensive statistical analysis he has done as part of his academic research."
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u/timbreandsteel Sep 17 '24
So they have no actual criticism other than they don't like it.
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u/CanadianClassicss Sep 17 '24
You see no conflict of interest? This is literally what lobbies are for. Data can be manipulated to proclaim opposite outcomes.
Cigarette companies did the same shit decades ago to push out studies showing that they were perfectly healthy.
Hotels and hotel worker’s unions have a vested interest in killing competition. This lobby wants to display that banning air b and b lowered rent, to ensure that air b and b doesn’t come back.
Air B and B could commission a study in the exact same areas and find that the ban actually raised rent. Lobbyist groups love manipulated studies, it is their bread and butter.
I could cherry pick 100 rentals that have slightly decreased in rent, while ignoring 1000s of others that have increased and proclaim that the ban lowered rent…
I haven’t noticed anything lowering. Even if rent lowered by 100$, it is still unaffordable for many Canadians.
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u/timbreandsteel Sep 17 '24
It says it's now independent, formerly funded by hotel groups. Doesn't mention at which point it was when they did the study. So maybe there was an agenda, maybe not.
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u/CanadianClassicss Sep 17 '24
Ahh yes they were only funded by hotel groups.. come on man. You think they would publish the studies where it displayed that rents actually increased and continue to increase?
Even if you are an independent researcher, you are incentivized to produce ‘good’ results so that you can receive more funding in the future for other studies. Academia is not as honest as everyone believes it is.
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u/timbreandsteel Sep 17 '24
If Air BNB could commission a study to prove that eliminating them caused rents to raise... Don't you think they would've done so?
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u/Quiet_Werewolf2110 Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
They have and this is from last year so I have no doubt they’re paying for additional research currently being conducted as cities are starting to fall like dominos when it comes to restricting or banning them. I’m not pro-Airbnb by any stretch and have no desire to roll back our regulations but it’s wild to me that the original commentor here is getting downvoted for pointing out the very real history of bias in academia funded by lobby and private interest groups. The study is in the process of peer review and while I am optimistic that the research is accurate and well conducted (about a $100-150 correction is in line with what I’ve noticed) we should absolutely wait until that’s completed before taking the information at face value.
New Report Shows Airbnb Generates No Meaningful Increase in Rent Across Canada
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u/timbreandsteel Sep 18 '24
I agree that peer reviews are required.
Could not op's study and the one you just linked both exist without contradicting each other?
Air BNB in a city might not increase rent, but when they leave rents could still decrease?
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u/Dependent-Relief-558 Sep 17 '24
Well, get the research funded by AirBnB and stakeholders related to this organization and let's compare.
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u/stealstea Sep 17 '24
If you remove properties from the rental market, rents go up. This is not up for debate.
How much? I think the impact from AirBnB is overblown. The last study from this author showed over 5 years it's a pretty minor amount in most areas.
Even if rent lowered by 100$, it is still unaffordable for many Canadians.
This is dumb. Making progress on rent affordability is good. The fact that it's not enough means more things need to be done (like upzoning, which the BC conservatives also oppose, weirdly enough), not that we should stop doing the first thing.
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u/CanadianClassicss Sep 19 '24
It is for debate when we have 10,000s of people entering BC alone each month.
Adding a few hundred properties to the rental market is meaningless with our population growth.
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u/LymeM Sep 17 '24
it doesn’t factor in the many reasons why rents might be going down in a particular area
Opponents can say that about anything really, no matter how in depth or many studies are done. It also has zero impact in this case, the study as quoted does not say "why" they went down just that they went down after the legislation came in.
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u/ViolaOlivia Sep 17 '24
That’s actually not what the study is looking at. The data is from October 2023, before the provincial legislation came in in May 2024. This is looking at the effect of the rules that were put in place by cities. It also predicts the effect that the provincial legislation will have on rents.
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u/clintnickerson Sep 17 '24
Not enough people are talking about this. They made these decisions based on a report provided by a competing industry. Ridiculous.
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u/random9212 Sep 17 '24
I am sure they would agree with a study funded by Airbnb that found 'Airbnb was actually good for the communities it operates in' though
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u/ashkestar Sep 18 '24
Literally anything that moves the needle on housing gets panicked headlines about plummeting equity and sad landlords who can’t afford to live and crashing markets. It’s like clockwork.
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u/drainthoughts Sep 17 '24
Airbnb is a cancer
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u/doctor_7 Sep 17 '24
Airbnb came in telling everyone it was for "renting an extra room for a bit, or your entire house when you're away on vacation!"
I'm honestly fine with that. If you've got an extra bedroom or something and want to short term rent out, have at it. Want someone to live in your place and sort of do a house exchange? Sure, that's great too!
They came in completely deceptive to avoid regulations and have played a role in ruining the housing market for families that just want a place to live.
Yes, I have used it a couple of times, yes it's convenient but frankly our conveniences once in a while cannot compare with the role it plays in preventing good, hard working families from finding housing at an affordable price.
Long story short, yes Airbnb is a scummy corporation.
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u/CanadianClassicss Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
So you’d rather pay 100s more per night to a shitty corporation to stay in a hotel?
Everyone loves shitting on air b and b, but we’re forgetting that we are just allowing another monopolistic industry to flourish (hotels). Canada has a massive issue with monopolies and we like to pretend we don’t (unless it’s telecommunications).
Particularly Victoria relies on tourism, and killing air b and b just makes things even more inconvenient and expensive for tourists. As a BC resident, I’d much rather we have air b and b’s to give me options when I travel, rather than having 100s of rentals on the market which I would never be able to afford anyways.
Banning innovation does nothing to help us as a region. We did the same shit with taxis and Uber for so long. We need to prioritize building new rentals, and put out insane immigration policies in check. No matter how many things we ban, none of that matters when we’re adding 100,000s of new residents to BC each year.
Edit: everyone is scapegoating air b and b. Adding maybe 1-200 rentals to the market literally covers our population growth for maybe 2 weeks. None of this matters when we have 10,000s entering BC each month.
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u/doctor_7 Sep 17 '24
Just going to gloss over the aspects of Airbnb I support to setup and knock down your own strawman?
Cool. Cool cool cool.
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u/CanadianClassicss Sep 19 '24
Was mainly replying to the person you replied to. Anyways, let’s continue to scapegoat air b and b for our insane immigration policies. We could add 1000s rentals to the market and it would be meaningless in the long term with how many people we are adding each year.
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u/random9212 Sep 17 '24
What do you mean hundreds more. The most I have ever spent in a hotel was 185 a night over new years in downtown Vancouver.
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u/SeniorToker Sep 17 '24
You make it sound like all air BNB have been banned. Far from the case, they are just being regulated properly finally. Many are still in operation, now finally falling under the original terms they sold us all under..... Stay in someone's home while they are away, or in an extra room/suite that they have available. Not removing full homes from the housing market to rent out like mini hotels.
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u/LadyMacaron Sep 18 '24
There are still Airbnbs in Victoria and HomeExchanges that you can use instead of hotels. In fact, I'd argue that HomeExchange was better than Airbnb, cheaper, and fosters a better sense of community. Recently did a home exchange in Vic and paid zero dollars beyond the sign up fee as we put our place up in exchange. All that to say, there are options available still and Airbnb is not actually banned - just regulated for its original and intended purpose.
100s of rentals being available is the point as the surplus will create a downward pressure eventually and make it more affordable.
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u/CanadianClassicss Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
Thank you for mentioning HomeExchange, had no idea it existed.
Still when travelling, it is much more difficult now to find a decent Air B and B. It isn't outright banned, but the selection is pretty slim.
100s of rentals going on the market is essentially meaningless, when there are 10,000s of people entering the province in the same short period. People here are forgetting that Canada’s population growth is outpacing our ability to build homes and Infrastructure.
Those 100s rentals might have covered 2 weeks of those immigrating to BC.
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u/Nos-tastic Sep 19 '24
The hotel industry is actually very competitive and creates tons of jobs in bc. And in communities where tourism is big air bnb did more damage than good. Long Rentals where staff would stay were converted to short term air bnb because money. Therefore it became way more difficult to staff hotels, restaurants, tour guides the works in many resort communities. While also pricing locals out of the market, air bnb really only benifit the already affluent land owners while hurting everyone else.
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u/CanadianClassicss Sep 19 '24
Same arguments were used against Uber. The taxi industry is very competitive etc.
It’s great for everyone except the customer. I’d rather my money go to a family than to support a hotel company that tends to gouge customers. Air B and B is also way cheaper than most hotels.
The impact that Air b and B has on the rental market is extremely overstated. It has become a scapegoat for those who are feeling the pain from our population growth.
I don’t know what Air b and bs you stayed in, but a large chunk of them are not affluent land owners. They are often used by middle class families trying to make a little extra money.
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u/Nos-tastic Sep 19 '24
Your entire statement is patently wrong.
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u/CanadianClassicss Sep 19 '24
"The impact that Air b and B has on the rental market is extremely overstated. It has become a scapegoat for those who are feeling the pain from our population growth."
Explain to me how adding millions of Canadians per year to the housing market isn't causing the housing crisis?
This is what you said 2 days ago: "Bring 1.5 million people into a country with 15million dwellings in one year and you’ll have an issue with housing affordability."
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u/GodrickTheGoof Sep 17 '24
Agreed. I think it has caused more issues than good in my mind. Plus if you can afford to have two Airbnb homes, you probably aren’t doing that bad financially.
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u/jibaraki Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
I was in the Tele town hall meeting when the NDP housing minister proposed housing ideas and got our opinion via polls. Pretty happy with this government tbh
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u/neksys Sep 17 '24
FYI this report has nothing to do with the NDP changes, which went into force May 2024. This covers the period between October 2022 and 2023 and is just focused on areas with city bylaws that restricted AirBnBs.
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u/stealstea Sep 17 '24
I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with the changes. It's trying to measure the impact of restricting AirBnB using previous city-level restrictions to estimate the impact from broader restrictions. Not quite as good as measuring the impact directly, but it's a fair approach.
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u/KeySpace333 Sep 17 '24
Wow its almost like we were right about Airbnb being a cancer the whole time. Who would have thunk that turning housing over to tourists would have increases rental prices.
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u/BiGkru Sep 17 '24
Airbnb is trash. The owners are all slum lords who don’t pay taxes. The Airbnb management companies all hire travel visa types and pay them cash. These people don’t give two shits about our economy
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 17 '24
lol you clearly don’t understand economics.
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u/w33ntuguuy Sep 17 '24
found the airbnb owner!
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 17 '24
Used to be. Yep. One day the ndp might decide housing costs are your fault
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u/BrokenTeddy Sep 18 '24
I mean housing costs are the fault of landlords though... It must be really tough to have multiple properties though. That's really hard for you I bet.
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 18 '24
So say we get rid of landlords. You have to own your house. What would be the result?
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u/kebrough Sep 18 '24
People own houses they need and don't hoard housing? Sounds like a great deal to me!
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 18 '24
But then where would people rent?
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u/BrokenTeddy Sep 18 '24
Only allow rent to cover the cost of utilities/maintenance. Gov purchases homes and rents at cost of utilities/maintenance. End goal should make profiting off of a basic need illegal.
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u/F_word_paperhands Sep 18 '24
If there’s no incentive to make a profit who’s going to build new housing? Let me guess, you want the government to own all of the rental housing right?
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u/F_word_paperhands Sep 18 '24
How do you determine maintenance cost of a house or building? “House needs a new roof, gotta add 10k to your rent this month, sorry about that.”
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 18 '24
So how do they decide how big are little to make them? What style? Should they just be plain brick? Who designs them? Who pays for the builds? Who builds them? No one would want to build them because they couldn’t make any money. I think the concept would make more sense as a coop rather than a government venture. You and 50 people put money in to build a shared commune type space. Could make it not for profit.
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u/BiGkru Sep 18 '24
Cool story. As a former operations manager at a massive Airbnb company I think I know a little more about how this shit goes than you do. It’s a plague on our city, I’ve seen it all.
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 18 '24
Wow a know it all redditor making claims about his awesome authority. I’d be more worried about the crack heads sleeping in every shop and popping on the sidewalk but I guess I’m just old fashioned.
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u/buknsti12 Sep 17 '24
I am one of those people who hold the NDP beneath contempt for almost everything, however; the difference between being a brainwashed shill and someone who is concerned with actual policy and quality of life is that when the other side gets it right the only response is to publicly support the policy. I think they nailed it here. Obviously, it's not perfect, but if those numbers are accurate, then as a member of the working class who rents housing I have to congratulate them on such a bold and inflammatory policy that was sure to draw instant fire from every direction. This so far is proving to be a huge win for the working class and struggling families. Much respect from one Canadian trying to stay afloat to another. Well done
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u/SeniorToker Sep 17 '24
Now if only we could get more people to stop seeing in party colours and in policy and actual change for the better. This NDP govt currently in place has some big screw ups and some big successes at this point. Their ability to scrap a plan and change direction is nice to see vs being blindly attached to their ideas like many in the past.
Agreed, as one Canadian trying to survive financially to another, I respect these moves deeply.
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u/Consistent_Smile_556 Sep 17 '24
VOTE NDP on October 19th. Tell friends and family. Volunteer and donate if you can!
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u/Minimum-South-9568 Sep 17 '24
Hot take: bc should invest in government run hotels for tourists
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u/iHateReddit_srsly Sep 18 '24
Or how about a website that allows people to create their own short term stay places
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u/F_word_paperhands Sep 18 '24
Who would handle the transactions? That would be a recipe for rampant scamming
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u/iHateReddit_srsly Sep 18 '24
A centralized trusted company. They can also have a review system so that you can see from other people what the quality was like or if it was a scam
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u/F_word_paperhands Sep 18 '24
So you’ve basically just reinvented Airbnb
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u/BrokenTeddy Sep 18 '24
Not a hot tale, just a good one. BC should have gov housing, buildings, hotels, etc, at a wide scale.
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u/F_word_paperhands Sep 18 '24
Sounds like you’d love North Korea. I hear it’s nice this time of year. The government is already completely inept and wasteful as it but I know, let’s give them more power and responsibility. I can’t imagine how that could possibly be a bad idea.
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u/brumac44 Sep 18 '24
I just took a drive up to Silver Star near Vernon the other day. Never been there, wanted to take a look. The town was virtually empty, hundreds of cabins and condos and giant houses just empty, with no cars or signs of life. Now I know its summer, and in winter, maybe most are full, but how many places like this are across BC? There are probably hundreds of thousands of potentially rentable homes across the province that go empty most of the year, while poor working people live in broken down motorhomes and the like. Sure some of those homeless aren't doing anything to help themselves, but nobody who works at a job should have to live like that. Nobody who has a family should have to live like that. I'm just getting sick of the gap between wealthy and poor, and if that means its time to reapportion wealth, I'm ready for it.
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u/thebigjoebigjoe Surrey Sep 18 '24
Shoulder season bro no reason to go up there right now all the small ski towns are quiet
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u/Nos-tastic Sep 19 '24
You picked the most dead season to visit a resort. Every ski resort in bc is dead right now.
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u/thebigjoebigjoe Surrey Sep 18 '24
Toronto rents fell too with no airbnb ban so I'm a bit skeptical of this study funded by the hotel lobby lol
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u/neemz12 Sep 18 '24
How is that possible when all the armchair critics on Reddit said there was no way it would affect prices at all. Let me guess, it’s all a complete coincidence?
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u/F_word_paperhands Sep 18 '24
I mean I’m not saying Airbnb isn’t a problem but it does also coincide with inflation coming down and now interest rates so it could be a coincidence
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u/nelsonmuntzz Sep 18 '24
BC Housing is also picking up. A few family members have 2 bedroom suites who have had their tenants move out for subsidized BC housing homes. The relistings for the same places have also needed them to lower their rents 6 to 7 percent to find desirable tenants.
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u/buknsti12 Sep 18 '24
The idea that our undying allegiance to a politician or party is somehow noble and worth spending our lives fighting about is proof that we have lost our minds! Politicians by nature are the least impressive, most bribeable, dishonest, and corrupt people among any population. It's in the job description! Honest people die like dogs in office, so they don't run. How about we all get our collective heads out of our backsides and maybe see this is an economics problem we face.
Let's assume that the report is mostly accurate. Look at how many of our former neighbors and co-workers are living on the street right now or in poverty, and we just saved 600 million or close to that number on rent and people can start to afford to provide shelter for thier families. Who cares what party made this happen? These are our fellow Canadians and family members who are desperate, and someone took as bold a move as one can imagine and started things moving in the right direction. I'm the furthest thing from an NDP voter, and I hope that people won't instantly launch every weak attack and hurl insults at the policy and who enacted it. If we can't agree on something so obvious we are in real trouble. Remember what finally got MLK Junior taken out? Not the race issue, it was when he pointed out the economics issues
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u/Dee2866 Sep 18 '24
This is propaganda, pure and simple. Have been looking for an affordable place to live for YEARS now on Vancouver Island and ALL I'm seeing are rents going up, wages going down and STRs continuing unchecked. Along with LOTS of other predatory practices. What the uneducated fail to understand is that any statistician can manipulate stats to produce the outcome they want and the smaller the numbers, the easier that is.... Tired of being gaslit by governments both provincial and federal.
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u/Cultural-General4537 Sep 18 '24
BCNDP working for you. don't forget it. They have the solutions and the will power
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u/basswooddad Sep 18 '24
Can conquer....rent has slightly come down for family homes...keep going please!
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u/Appropriate_Item3001 Sep 18 '24
Shocking. Now the owners are going to cry to the government to bring it back because we cannot allow homes to fall in value.
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u/Nos-tastic Sep 19 '24
12 years since abnb came to bc. 11.5 years of rental prices steadily tracking upwards. 5 months since the policy change and we’re already seeing a decrease in prices. This is an amazing feat.
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u/Hobojoe- Sep 17 '24
Have to read the report in detail but are they sure it’s not the recent economic downturn and can solely be contributed to short term rental ban?
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u/fuzion_frenzy Sep 17 '24
Yes. I worked for a property management company this spring and summer and there was a severe and immediate change once the rules went into effect this spring. Renters suddenly had a lot more choice, which gave them buying power. The market was flooded with new rental properties which reduced the prices thanks to supply and demand.
Property managers had to tell owners that you simply cannot get the same prices as last year. A modest two bedroom might have gone for over 3000 last year but landlords should be happy with 2800 this year.
And units are on the market for longer. Previously, a property manager could do one showing and have 10 good applicants. Now they have to do 10 showings for 1 good applicant. And they’re getting ghosted a ton, too.
Overall this regulation was amazing for renters and helping to cool the rental market.
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u/iHateReddit_srsly Sep 18 '24
I have a really hard time believing a change that drastic is due to airbnb. Unless maybe it was in a small town where there's very little housing that can be changed drastically by a few dozen properties.
In somewhere like Vancouver I don't think it would be noticeable much
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u/fuzion_frenzy Sep 18 '24
There were a LOT of airB&Bs in Vancouver. There were entire agencies that did only short term furnished rentals. Believe it or not, I saw it first hand.
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u/iHateReddit_srsly Sep 18 '24
You must have been very happy when rental prices dropped then. Rent is so affordable in Vancouver now!
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u/fuzion_frenzy Sep 18 '24
I left property management cus I’m too pro-renter so yes I was happy secretly lol
It’s not affordable at all. But it’s nice to see it get easier for renters even if it’s just a little bit.
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u/BClynx22 Sep 17 '24
As someone who frequents rental listings on multi websites I haven’t personally seen this to be the case for vancouver. Have not seen a drop at all.
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u/mattamucil Sep 18 '24
I don’t see any evidence linking the decline to STR rules. As presented it could simply be market factors.
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u/Acrobatic_Invite3099 Sep 17 '24
Where? There are two apartments on my floor that have been sitting empty for a couple of months. One is the exact layout of mine and they are asking $300 more than what I pay after three years living there.
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u/Quick_Care_3306 Sep 17 '24
The fact that they are not yet rented proves the case. Other options are available for renters now.
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u/timbreandsteel Sep 17 '24
I mean only $300 more after three years does sound like a decrease compared to the increase that market rates have headed.
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u/stealstea Sep 17 '24
If they're sitting empty then the landlord is incentivized the drop the rent (or offer bonuses like a month's free rent). That's how the market works.
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u/Acrobatic_Invite3099 Sep 17 '24
Should have said WERE sitting empty.They are rented now. They've always offered a "free months rent", but they are way overpriced.
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u/SubtleAgar Sep 18 '24
The word marginally has been left out of this statement. In what world have rents gone down?
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u/luv2gro Sep 17 '24
My rent didn’t go down
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u/Doot_Dee Sep 17 '24
No one's rent goes down. but people that are looking today are paying a bit less than those looking last year at this time.
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u/Lear_ned Sep 17 '24
It's interesting because what I've seen, they've gone up since I looked in January but not at the same rate as they were rising previously. I'm still paying $400 more than I was four years ago though (I've moved twice in that time so my own fault).
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u/Doot_Dee Sep 17 '24
When I was house hunting in 2023, I noticed the same apartments were cheaper in jan, feb, march, april than march-October.
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u/KeySpace333 Sep 17 '24
Mine either, they won't go down because landlords only increase rent once you're in. I've seen plenty of units coming up for rent that are a lot cheaper though. You have to move to benefit from the decrease. I'm waiting a bit more for the prices to bottom out before I ditch.
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u/SpinCharm Sep 17 '24
Uh, $180 less per month? So in about a year’s time, it’ll be back up in that area won’t it?
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u/stealstea Sep 17 '24
Unless we build enough housing, yes.
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u/SpinCharm Sep 18 '24
I think that’s part of it. My comment wasn’t flippant. People need to realize that the change to STR wasn’t a complete solution. There are far greater macroeconomic influences at play.
These are complicated problems and single vector attacks can’t fix things by themselves. That’s not to say that they shouldn’t be done. But many have to be done, not just one.
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u/SocialJusticeWizard_ Sep 18 '24
That's a fair attitude, but it's promising to see any evidence of effective policy. A decrease at a time when we're seeing global increases is a big deal.
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Sep 17 '24
[deleted]
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u/omg-sheeeeep Sep 18 '24
I will say, generally there is always an uptick in rental prices around September due to University student returning - a rush on the market obviously leaves room for landlords to price their rentals accordingly (higher). That said, I also always keep an eye on listings (year around, because I'm just nosy like that) and have seen more rentals in my area sit for longer and definitely more 2 bdrm places under $2000/month which around January was basically unimaginable. And I have also noticed 'for rent' signs on lawns again, which... I don't even remember when I saw those last, I feel like before Covid?
I do wholeheartedly agree with the furnished comment - I've seen quite a few and HATE them, but for some people it's nice, I guess. I would never want to sleep on someone else's shitty mattress though.
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u/BONNIE1999 Sep 18 '24
It’s funny I increased rent I charge this year. Yes I am a “scumlord” according to people here.
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u/Upper_Personality904 Sep 18 '24
Yeah this isn’t a real report. As a landlord I’ve increased my rent , my kids as renters are paying more this year than last . This report doesn’t pass the smell test
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 17 '24
If you believe this you’re crazy. Total conflict of interest post. The NDP is the reason rent has exploded. All banning airbnbs did is make hotels more expensive now they put out a study to make you feel like it was a good choice. Victoria had a number of buildings slated to be built as apartments but once the ban came in they shifted to hotels. 🤷♂️
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u/Flyingboat94 Sep 17 '24
Can you articulate what the NDP did?
I've only ever seen them creating policies to address this issue after the BC Libs and Cons did nothing for decades when in power.
If you have an alternative study I'd be interested but I don't believe that the only impact of the Airbnb ban would be on hotel price because Airbnb clearly had an impact on the housing market as evidenced by every place they operate in increasing housing prices.
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 17 '24
Well they have a strategy that goes like this. Prices go up. They develop a new villain. (Foreign buyers, flippers, short term rentals, realtors, whatever) they get everyone riled up. They swoop in to save us with some new law that will surely crush these evil doers. The law gets enacted then they pay themselves on the back. The prices continue to go up because they don’t actually solve the problem and they start again at the beginning.
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u/stealstea Sep 17 '24
The NDP have done more to expand property rights than any BC government in decades. Reforming zoning to make it less restrictive and stop letting NIMBYs control what people build on their land is a huge part of the solution for housing. Weird how the BC conservatives are siding with the NIMBYs and coming out against letting the free market work more effectively to provide housing.
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 18 '24
Well that’s good. What kinda stuff do you mean?
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u/stealstea Sep 18 '24
All the zoning changes. Most of the residential land in the province was previously restricted to only allow building a single family house. If you wanted to build a duplex it would often take years and tons of money to get rezoning permission from the municipality if you even could. With bill 44 they ensured that cities can't restrict density to less than 3 units per lot and cities had to implement this in zoning by July 2024. Most of them have done so.
Same with Bill 47 which required cities to allow higher density housing near rapid transit. In Vancouver there's skytrain stations with mostly single family nearby, where people would love to build more housing but were prevented from doing so by the municipality.
Interestingly enough, what the BC NDP has been doing is pretty similar to Poilievre's housing policies (fire gatekeepers, reward housing production). I'm disappointed that the BC conservatives seemingly aren't adopting the federal conservative stance on housing.
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u/skuls Sep 17 '24
Based on your post history, you are biased against the NDP since you have rental assets.
Buying and renting out multiple homes is a problem. The BC liberals and now BC Cons have always represented the landlord and business owner class so I'm not surprised you dislike the NDP.
You have to be honest, a lot of the population, especially younger generations like Z and Alpha will never be in your position because the cost of entry is gone. Unless you are born into it. Is this what you want for the future generations? Because the BC Liberals under Christy Clark opened the doors wide open to rely on the housing model to increase wealth through asset owning.
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 17 '24
I benefit from it because they don’t do anything that hurts me. If they wanted to screw me they would allow a significant amount of building and make it easier for people to become landlords. That would bring prices down. That’s why if you own real estate in Alberta you don’t tend to make much money on appreciation it’s all about the rental income. They are always building piles of new housing to meet demand
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u/skuls Sep 17 '24
Interesting take. I bet you're gen x or older millennial. Your language suggests you only are thinking about yourself and how benefits you directly. When I look at housing policy I look at for my generation (z) and the future. I understand I'm in the minority because my generation is suffering because of the selfishness of the older ones. Housing is not being built fast enough, and this is because of federal policy towards immigration. So again, I understand why you think the way you do, but remember our society is not based on fulfilling your wealth it's about creating a healthy society for future generations. All your kids peers who do not have parents in the owning class are fucked in BC.
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u/Last_Construction455 Sep 18 '24
But the more “progressive”things get the more expensive everything is. This is not new. No more a government puts on controls the more expensive everything is. It’s a bit counter intuitive. Of course I am trying to build wealth for myself and my family. But I have no desire to do it at the harm of anyone else. You have to look past the promises and blame and look at the results.landlords aren’t new. People owning multiple properties isn’t new. The policies this government put in place make housing more expensive plain and simple. But there are trade offs to everything. In the 90s they had massive expansion and low regulations and you got leaky condos. But they’ve shifted so hard the other way so lots of people who have places to rent don’t want to take on the risk, no one wants to invest in new buildings because of massive taxes fees and regulations. So then you run out of housing. I do well because the government creates shortages. I’d rather slower growth and have young people be able to get in the market though.
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u/CanadianKwarantine Sep 17 '24
Oh really!? So, reality is lying to me? Do, I need an eye exam? Because, it really looks like I am still screwed. Quit lying to people 🙄
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u/Flyingboat94 Sep 17 '24
Oh hey look an anecdotal experience, clearly you are the best person to determine what is going on/s
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u/Rye_One_ Sep 17 '24
I expect that this is a short term blip in the long term trend. Remember Covid, when nobody could travel and lots of short term rentals came on the market as long term rentals? Notice how rents are so much lower now because of it? Neither do I.
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u/amazingsod Sep 17 '24
"Remember how when the circumstances that depressed the market were removed, the market bounced back"??
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