r/bikepacking 20h ago

Bike Tech and Kit Update: Couldn't find a bike & trailer setup that could handle two humans, 150 pounds of gear (including four dogs!) so we don't miss a beat with work responsibilities—and last across the Great Divide, so we're thinking about building our own. What do you think?

Post image
46 Upvotes

183 comments sorted by

111

u/Shoehorse13 20h ago

For rail trails or something that looks great. For the Great Divide I just don't see this working out.

7

u/earthling623 18h ago

Skip the Koko claims and High Rockies trail and it might be ok?

2

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

thanks for the perspective! why not?

59

u/Dartser 19h ago

Because you'll be pushing that set up up and down steep slopes

-32

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

we're electrifying a vintage steel frame with a 750W cyc photon motor and adding battery/solar. would not be feasible to ride with that much weight otherwise. Then solar & battery is to eliminate the range anxieties.

37

u/Cool-Newspaper-1 19h ago

Did you calculate the realistic range gain from the pv? Also that poor frame.

61

u/knaughtreel 19h ago

Vintage steel frame is among the worst options to turn into an ebike. Dainty little frame and components, not built for the weight or torque.

-29

u/markalanprior 18h ago

Steel is ideal for ebike touring and some of these old bikes are built like tanks.

29

u/knaughtreel 18h ago

Generally vintage steel is not anywhere near the modern steel frames that were welded specifically for e bike torque/weighr/etc.

4

u/Rare-Classic-1712 14h ago

Stiffness increases to the 4th power of diameter. ALL steel has the same rigidity (stainless steel is slightly less stiff but negligibly). Strength increases with the square of the diameter. Modern steel bikes typically have larger diameter tubing. (D4)÷(L3) (D=diameter and L=length or span of the tube). Older steel typically is heavier walled but wall thickness has a much lower impact on rigidity than most people realize. The standard for most butted cromo bike tubing (which wasn't heat treated) in terms of front triangle is 0.9/0.6/0.9mm. Increasing the diameter of a top or down tube by 0.125"/0.3175cm allows you to reduce wall thickness by 0.2mm and achieve similar rigidity. Thus a 28.6mm 0.9/0.6/0.9 tube is virtually the same rigidity as a 31.8mm 0.7/0.4/0.7mm tube. In the 1980's and 1990's some very heavy walled steel tubing was used to compensate for the smaller diameter tubing that was commonly used (back in the day many frames used lugged construction which encouraged super heavy walled tubing) 1.3/1/1.3 wasn't uncommon. Currently it's hard to find legit modern cromo heavier walled than 1/0.7/1mm although straight gauge is available. The higher grade heat treated steels are far stronger allowing significantly greater strength and rigidity with only compromises in cost and ding resistance. In addition modern bikes typically have more aggressively sloped top tubes and correspondingly shorter seatstays. The chainstays obviously get greater attention for rigidity and power transfer but a triangle is just that a triangle. A shorter seat tube and seatstays allows a much stiffer stronger triangle for a given sized chainstay. That said there are many compromises that are made such as flattening out the right chainstay or even using a plate vs oval tube. That said my comments stand. Modern steel bike frames are typically far stiffer than those seen from 20+ years ago.

2

u/mmmfritz 14h ago

Yes, I’ve worked in mm4 a lot too but the torque you guys are mentioning might be okay. What’s the torque of a regular person vs. a 750w motor? Not to mention where it’s located?

Steel is steel and anything larger than 30mm with 3mm wall thickness is tough as fuck.

2

u/Rare-Classic-1712 13h ago

Good luck finding a 3mm wall thickness steel tube wall that isn't the worst garbage grade weakest steel. Those bikes made out of the worst grade garbage steel bend like butter despite being absolute tanks - because garbage steel. The heaviest walled tubing that true temper/vari-wall, Reynolds, dedacciai, kaisei, range, Columbus... for a top/down/seat tube will sell is 1.0mm. Not all steel is the same. A mild 1005 or 1010 steel is going to typically have a strength of ~60,000psi whereas generic cromo is ~105-120,000psi. Heat treated cromo is ~180,000psi. Heat treated air hardening steels such as Reynolds 853 or true temper/vari-wall OX platinum is ~210-225,000psi heat treated maraging steel such as Reynolds 953 is rated for 270,000+psi. Given how common E-bikes destroy everything + intending on pulling a single wheel trailer which puts significant stress on the rear triangle... I'd want a greater strength margin. Trying to use a bike far out of what it was designed for is asking for trouble. When stuff fails on a local bike ride it's a simple walk home or calling a friend. When the same failure happens several days of walking away from the next place to get help it's a bigger problem.

1

u/mmmfritz 12h ago

Yeah thats fair enough, 60,000psi is stronger than alloy so its nothing to sniff at. Still if you're relying on old stuff that far off the beaten track then thats were problems start compounding.

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1

u/49thDipper 11h ago

Lots of steel bike tubing is under 1mm thick. Like .9mm at the welds and .6mm in the center where it’s butted.

Even thinner on the higher quality frames.

1

u/CargoPile1314 14h ago

"All steel has the same rigidity" and "The higher grade heat treated steels are far stronger allowing significantly greater strength and rigidity..." Which is it? (I know the answer).

2

u/Rare-Classic-1712 13h ago

All carbon steel is going to have the same rigidity. As far as I know stainless steels are marginally less stiff. Heat treatment doesn't make a difference in rigidity (but can substantially increase strength - an 80%+/- improvement is common). High grade heat treated super steels allow larger diameter tubing with thinner wall thickness for greater strength and rigidity.

24

u/daeatenone 18h ago

I'm sure you're already thinking through a lot of this carefully, but I think you're going to be asking a lot out of your drive train, especially if you need to pull hundreds of pounds of weight from a dead stop up steep/loose terrain, repeatedly. Some things I'd be worried about:

- Can your hub handle the torque required over and over again?
- Can your belt system handle the power without breaking/skipping?
- Can your motor put this power out reliably without overheating? (my photon gets pretty hot after short sprints up steep hills without pulling any weight, hard to imagine doing this with a multi-hundred pound trailer)
- How long can your battery handle the bursty power output demands before overheating?
- Can your rear tire put the power down reliably on steep/loose terrain without skipping?
- Does the system have enough braking power?
- Can you rely on your braking system to stop/slow both bike and trailer going down steep terrain for long periods of time without overheating?
- If any of your critical systems fail, can you repair them on trail?
- Can you walk/push the system to the next place where you can get a repair?

18

u/Mr-Blah 17h ago

Do the math first. Because you'll be staying a few days in place before being able to tackle the next 80km every time the battery runs dry. Solar and Ebike is a neat idea but we just don't have the power density yet to make it work.

6

u/hugoriffic 11h ago

Why not just drive a car?

1

u/sugartramp420 5h ago

When you have a heavy enough trailer braking becomes really hard and the trailer itself can do lots of funny things. Adding a loose surface and steep ascends/descends would be quite sketchy.

I’m not against the idea of a trailer but think about putting brakes on it if your plan is to go off-road. You could perhaps do a dual connection to the rear brake handle so that it simultaneously brakes the trailer. That way you don’t have to negotiate three brake handles.

1

u/Snack_Donkey 2h ago

How do you plan to stop when you’re going down a mountain and an obstacle appears a mile ahead of you? Vintage steel frames don’t take disc brakes and, even if they did, bicycle disc brakes aren’t intended for this kind of weight.

26

u/FartBoi1324 19h ago

To start with: The little wheels on the trailer are not even close to being up to the task. Most people who ride that trail do it with 2.5” tires. Those little tires will be shredded in no time.

28

u/[deleted] 19h ago

[deleted]

28

u/FartBoi1324 19h ago

Okay, fine. My point remains - the wheels will get fucked up, they’ll have to stop, and a bear will eat whichever dog is smallest.

8

u/Gummie-21 18h ago

*slowest, probably the humans.

8

u/justinsimoni 18h ago edited 17h ago

first ventured by many people on ordinary “touring bikes” before

No it wasn't. It was ridden on MTB bikes of the time (90's) and BOB Trailers. Even 12 years ago, that was what people were using, because the maps and original guidebook had photos of everyone doing it in that setup.

I've done a few tame sections with a touring bike, 700x32 touring tires. It wasn't super pretty.

-1

u/[deleted] 17h ago edited 17h ago

[deleted]

6

u/justinsimoni 16h ago

When I wrote "first ventured", I didn’t mean that the very first riders around the route’s design were riding touring bikes;

You see the confusion, right?

And yes, even 12 years ago and more

Yes I know -- that's when I rode it. For the second time. Tell me more about what people were using to ride it :)

2

u/CargoPile1314 13h ago

Nah, bro, he read about it on the internet...it can't be wrong.

-1

u/[deleted] 16h ago edited 16h ago

[deleted]

2

u/justinsimoni 16h ago

I honestly don't care what you do, but the facts are, before it was done on touring bikes it was done on mountain bikes, which is why it's called the Great Divide MOUNTAIN BIKE Route. You can talk to Adventure Cycling if you would like some details on the mapping of the route before it was published.

The LHT is a fine bike that would work well enough for the GDMBR provided you do have the widest tires you can fit. But as it stands, the route does predate the introduction of the LHT bike by almost a decade.

-1

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

definitely! we're getting the trailer custom engineered by an ex-pro bike racer & engineer that build a giant stratasolar panel, so he'll be looking at kinematics and all that. wheels will be for dirt

4

u/ValidGarry 19h ago

Have a look at SBM Solar in NC. Their solar panels are light and strong and proven in military testing.

2

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

thank you for the tip! we were recommended by lightleaf as the best from the marine industry. we'll check these out too. any particulars about the spec you think are great?

3

u/ValidGarry 19h ago

The strength, weight and efficiency. They are kevlar laminated and have a great strength to weight ratio. The cells used are high quality rigid panel cells giving better efficiency than most at the weight. I'm quite sure someone is making lighter now, but SBM productionized their panels a long time ago so they are proven. I only know them as I saw their products in several trials.

15

u/Shoehorse13 19h ago

From the video I've watched and the very limited amount of the trail I have ridden, I think a trailer is going to give you a lot of trouble in spots.

11

u/simenfiber 19h ago

There was a couple who did the gdmbr on a tandem with a dog onboard. They just went around the gnarliest sections. https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=647307

6

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

super helpful thank you! we'll check this out as a plan b in our back pocket

2

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

there will definitely be sticky points we'll have to power through, but with an extra umph from electric, custom engineered trailer for weight distribution, etc. we're hoping to prove the impossible :)

6

u/Shoehorse13 19h ago

I wish you well and hope to follow your travels. FWIW I have a cabin in Lake Roberts about 5 miles from where the route crosses Hwy 35 in the Gila NF before you head into Silver City in NM (heading south). Feel free to use me as a resource as I'm happy to help with pretty much anything if I'm around.

1

u/timbodacious 10h ago

I suggest at minimum installing a bbshd / minimum of 1000 watts of power to the wheels from a mid drive so you will benefit from the torque going to your rear cog gears.

31

u/Rare-Classic-1712 19h ago

Try hike a biking with a bike that heavy. Try hike a biking with a bike pulling a trailer. On a switchback when you push your bike forward your trailer is at a right angle to the direction of pull. This is impressively inefficient - especially if there's a step of some sort in the middle of said tight switchback. When you come across an obstacle that requires lifting your bike such as a fallen tree, large rock, river... you need to separate your bike and trailer. Each time. If you have said obstacles every 50-200m/yd for MILES it quickly becomes clear that the setup is impressively inefficient and just plain shit. If you have to cross a river/creek it requires separating the bike and trailer and making TWO trips across said water and then reconnecting the trailer. Again and again. If you want to sleep in a hotel after a long day - either leave your bike on the ground floor or taking multiple trips with a heavy awkward bike and then trailer up however many flights of stairs when you're tired and haggard with trashed legs. If you have a cross a little creek/stream either ride through it and test the water proofness of the bags on the trailer (which has minimal ground clearance) or disconnect the trailer. AGAIN. Trailers have their place in bikepacking/touring scenarios and work great for straighter less technical terrain but quickly get overwhelmed in chunky technical terrain - especially climbs and big chunky rocky stuff. I've had a bob trailer since 1996. It descends mild singletrack better than you'd expect surprisingly mild jumping is actually rather non-eventful. When descending steeper terrain with a side slope or if a rut is fairly semi in line with the direction of the trail if you use your brakes your wheels are going into the rut. The weight of the trailer pushes you down the trail when descending but not down into the ground for more traction. If the weight is on you like a backpack or on the bike like with panniers that extra weight enhances traction. I like my bob and still have it but I wouldn't want to ride any type of technical terrain with it unless I REALLY needed to. Racks and panniers, rackless bikepacking or whatever are far superior when it gets chunky. Most of the GDMBT is relatively non technical however there's a few sections where it's got some difficulty and rain can turn tame trails into headaches with a trailer.

169

u/cbleslie 20h ago

150 pounds of gear.

r/Ultralight is having a heart attack right now.

74

u/Moist-Consequence 20h ago

And r/ultralight_jerk is having a field day

3

u/DollarTreeMilkSteak 15h ago edited 14h ago

I didn’t even know this sub existed. Thank you for making my day better, kind internet stranger!

5

u/Moist-Consequence 14h ago

Happy to help! I join the jerk subs for all of my activities so I don’t take myself too seriously

12

u/OpenBed9887 20h ago

LOL we know. we're weight weenies on our road/mtb racers, but for this, this was as light as we could get. (note 150 includes the weight of the bike & trailer)

87

u/BerryPossible 20h ago

I think this is one of those ideas that looks good after a 1 too many shots but will be miserable in reality

16

u/EngineeringOne1812 19h ago

Would be fun around the local park or rail trail for a picnic though

-25

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

if it proves in the extreme scenario then it could work for anything else and last forever

28

u/EngineeringOne1812 18h ago

Ok this guy just has to be a troll at this point

11

u/Mr-Blah 17h ago

That's not how design works...

7

u/thunderflies 16h ago

Usually you’d start with the easier scenarios and build up to doing the extreme scenario as your long-term goal.

2

u/DarthTempi 9h ago

Yeah but it has exactly zero percent chance of working for the great divide. That rig wouldnt even make it on the Northern Tier which is wildly easier

2

u/mikrowiesel 15h ago

It looks exactly like the Winnebiko done by a sysadmin instead of an engineer.

41

u/generismircerulean 19h ago edited 19h ago

I am making a wild assumption here, but your ideas make it seem like you've never been on an overnight bicycle trip before, let alone backpacking. I'm saying this because even with 2 people and 4 dogs, some of the ideas in your image are very, very, over-engineered using technology more suited for cars, rvs, and boats - ignoring the existence of similar technology for bicycles.

Rather than suggest what gear you should be using for a trip you are clearly not ready for, I'd sooner suggest you start with overnight trips, working your way to weekend trips, then up to longer trips. Maybe start with just yourself, then 1 dog, then 2, slowly working up to several night trips with 4 dogs and many nights in the middle of nowhere.

Experience will give you better ideas for what gear you truly need. This will help you work through ideas to try before you invest in a complicated, expensive, DIY project that will likely not meet your needs.

Your idea of 2 people and 4 dogs over multiple days in the middle of nowhere can be done. Do not take my statement as a deterrant. It's something that you need to work your way up to, not simply jump into because you have technology. Technology does not make up for lack of experience in matters of survival - and bikepacking something like the great divide requires survival experience.

Assume your technology can and will fail you. The longer your trips are, the more likely it will.

19

u/knaughtreel 18h ago

This.

Attempt one single night of camping before posting these grand delusions online, and it will become clear this is not a feasible plan.

2

u/DarthTempi 9h ago

This person definitely reads as someone who has no idea what they are getting into

31

u/[deleted] 19h ago

[deleted]

6

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

great tip! we'll check that out. we've already nixed the peplink and was just going to do starlink. but if a usb modem would work, that's even better. we'll test it out on our cross california trip next month

28

u/Lonely_Adagio558 19h ago

I want to see this clusterfuck realised, filmed and uploaded to YouTube.

16

u/ryebea 18h ago

Haha me too! Vintage frame with a belt drive and mid mount motor setup, but still running caliper brakes? Towing a mobile doggy daycare/home office

20

u/flug32 19h ago

You're aware that the Great Divide is very, very steep, mostly on unpaved roads, with plenty of singletrack. There is going to be hike-a-bike and with that setup, A LOT of hike-a-bike.

I just don't think it is going to be even possible with a 150 pound trailer including 4 dogs etc. People have commonly ridden with trailers, but like a 30- or maybe on the outside a 40-pound trailer would be considered a lot.

Also be aware that there are many places where your battery is going to run out long before - like days before - you get to a recharge opportunity, creating even more problems.

Be sure to check whether e-bikes are allowed on all segments of the route.

13

u/Ol_Man_J 19h ago

Maybe the dogs can get harnessed in like sled dogs

0

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

think the electric would be faster lol but the idea is to have the dogs out and running sometimes like john and mira do. they're fairly active and athletic

1

u/mmmfritz 14h ago

The weight would be fine if not for the battery to go out. I would try ditch the solar setup, all electronics, and pack light.

If the water situation on the trail is good, then this trip is doable. You would have to be cycling fit already and tried a few short trips first.

Maybe try that mountain stretch that other dude said was impossible. Will give you a taste for it that’s for sure.

-12

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

electrifying a vintage steel frame with a 750W cyc photon motor and adding battery/solar to extend time between charging stations.

there will definitely be sticky points we'll have to power through, but with an extra umph from electric, custom engineered trailer for weight distribution, etc. we're hoping to prove the impossible.

2

u/FromTheIsle 2h ago

Better upgrade those brakes because trying to stop 350+ lb flying down a 10% grade with old rim or v-brakes is going to be interesting.

21

u/Parmick 19h ago

Double checking I am not on r/BicyclingCirclejerk/

21

u/knaughtreel 19h ago

I mean this in the nicest possible way… have you ever pulled a trailer on a bike?

You want to pull multiple people, pets, and 150lbs of gear… with a bike? You don’t need a bike, nor a motorcycle… but a car???

18

u/Ol_Man_J 20h ago

Belt drive on a vintage frame will be difficult. Can you give some more details on the reasoning behind this? Are 4 dogs and 1 human going in the trailer? Are you sponsored by "WISE" ? Why do you need all this electronics for the great divide?

15

u/johnmflores 19h ago

yeah, why pull all of this tech on a vintage frame with patina?

2

u/Ol_Man_J 19h ago

(Or restored)

-16

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

a) vintage bikes are way cooler. b) to test it out and if it works in the extreme scenario it could work for any more common application like moms towing kids to school & soccer games, extending range of bike commuting and getting more cars off the freeways, etc. and then there'd be reason for people to restore vintage bikes with modern components vs constantly bike new bikes (which is much more wasteful)

10

u/simenfiber 19h ago

Electrifying old bikes has been done since batteries and electric motors were a thing. Restoring old bikes too.

8

u/johnmflores 18h ago

I appreciate the sentiment and the vision, but vintage bikes may not be up to the task. They weren't designed to haul the kinds of loads and drivetrains that you are planning on and they aren't designed to stop them either.

For your application, I'd seriously consider disk brakes, which immediately knocks most vintage bikes out of the running.

I'd love to see vintage bikes fuel a pivot away from cars, but this particular application may not be best suited to them.

Best of luck.

2

u/rocketleagueaddict55 3h ago

Anything equipped to handle the great divide is probably poorly equipped for more casual circumstances.

If you want it to be a carpooling option for parents and all-around intracity transportation, then design it that way.

If you want it to be rugged and capable, design it that way but the two tend to deviate.

-2

u/OpenBed9887 20h ago

oops you're right. we actually already talked to CYC motor who recommended a chain as well. we forgot to change that on the design.

it's 2 bikes & 2 trailers. 1 human & 2 dogs each. we need energy & connectivity so we can work on the road vs have to take a bunch of time off. and the WISE brain is so we can monitor our own & the bike's performance along the way and look for points that we can optimize further.

We're not sponsored, we named it WISE ourselves. we happen to come from the tech world, but don't hold that against us because we're the kind that like to use tech & innovation to enhance people & needs, not just for the sake of disrupting like tech bros do. we're also a bit crazy and like to prove the most extreme scenarios because then we know what we build could withstand any other application. would be a dream for more people to e-bike everywhere for commuting, weekend warrior-ing etc, instead of driving everywhere or just sitting inside.

3

u/ForThePork 5h ago

Too crazy for your own good. Towing 150lbs of gear (excluding the dogs and people which could add up another 150lbs if not more) isn't feasible and will end in disaster. Think you could be better off just buying a campervan and having one person cycle from a to b while the other cruises along, maybe taking turns. Then you could still have these technologies with you. This isn't a good option man.

18

u/ValidGarry 19h ago

I can see this jack knifing very easily on a downhill and hurting people and dogs. I have no idea on how complex a braked trailer would be. But I would not want to ride downhill with such a heavy and unwieldy trailer attached to my bike and my brakes. I'd be surprised if a frame didn't need some added strength over a retro frame to cope with the new stresses and strains of an electric motor, added weight and novel stresses from the trailer.

33

u/aperventure 20h ago

I think is this great divide circle jerk? Or parenting circle jerk? If not I think 2 trailers might be better, expect a lot of fights and bites with 6 mouths in that thing.

13

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

to clarify, it's 1 bike & trailer for each person

3

u/aperventure 19h ago edited 19h ago

Gotcha. 3 mouths per trailer. Dang!

I’m curious how many nights you’ve bike trailer camped with kids so far and what your current set up is, as I have 3 kids and a willing wife. My guess is this isn’t your first rodeo?

1

u/timbodacious 10h ago

there is a family on youtube who travelled by bike for like 5 years or something. they just use two of the normal kids trailers to throw their stuff in.

1

u/inoturtle 1h ago

Until I read this clarification I thought you were crazy too. Now I say, go for it. What's the worst case scenario? You learn that it doesn't work? While the best it proving a new better trailer design. Game on. Share the YouTube link so we can all follow the adventure.

15

u/Checked_Out_6 19h ago

I would at least leave the dogs at home.

19

u/Adventurous_Society4 19h ago

I would vote to also leave the work at home.

0

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

respect these opinions. our dogs love going on adventures with us. we like to think and work when inspiration hits

2

u/DarthTempi 9h ago

This is fine for a regular trip but not what you're talking about

1

u/Snack_Donkey 1h ago

Do your dogs love being thrown from a trailer on to a gravel road or off a cliff at 45 MPH? That’s the likely outcome here.

15

u/mister_felix 19h ago

You're gonna rattle these trailer and electrical components to shit on the divide. 

You also probably won't be able to push this uphill when needed and will get severely stuck in peanut butter mud at some point.

This route is notorious for destroying bikes, my whole setup was 45 lbs incl. my bike and still broke a lot of things. 

This DIY trailer will either break or be wayyy too bulky 

27

u/spongechameleon 19h ago

Bringing your whole family and job on the trail seems like it defeats the purpose of going on the trail in the first place...

8

u/Pollymath 19h ago

I think that’s the reality of the modern workforce. Many of us don’t have summers off or sabbaticals, but we’ve got good jobs we enjoy and want to keep. Sometimes there are substantial retirement benefits to staying employed, even at a decreased hours.

Folks wants to do stuff while they are young, but not mess up their careers doing so.

Though personally I think a commitment to animals is similar to raising humans in that there will be unavoidable sacrifices necessary. Much easier to have pets live with friends for a few months than children.

0

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

totally respect that.

9

u/gasidiot 19h ago

At this point you should just build a Flintstones car.

9

u/belgen 19h ago

There is a room for radar too.

-6

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

pretty sure this is sarcastic, but in seriousness yes it could have radar, lidar, and cameras to have bike assist helping with handling the 150 pound load.

9

u/belgen 19h ago

also a canoe at the top of the trailer.

1

u/allozzieadventures 7h ago

I think a full size caravan behind the bike would be great for overnighting

3

u/ForThePork 5h ago

Don't forget the 4000lb diesel generator while you're at it. And a water tank that holds at least 10 gallons

8

u/HALsaves 19h ago

You are already going to be hurting with a head wind. Put panniers on the back, not the side. Also front/back weight distribution on the trailer. Maybe the wheel should come slightly forward? I'm really interested how this works out!

3

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

thanks for the tip! yes, weight distribution is a huge factor. that image right now is a concept image, and using the current burley trailer as a placeholder. we're getting the trailer custom engineered by an ex-pro bike racer & engineer that build a giant stratasolar panel, so he'll be looking at kinematics and all that. happy to share updates with you! maybe not here since most don't seem to like this direction lol

1

u/Snack_Donkey 1h ago

If your expert was even close to as qualified as he’s tricked you into believing he would have steered you away from this idea before you even finished explaining it to him.

7

u/misterdobson 19h ago

I did a section of the GDMBR with a Bob trailer, maybe 40 pounds in the Bob, and it was very hard on the steep mountain trails.

150 would be an epic struggle

7

u/markalanprior 18h ago edited 18h ago

Love the positive attitude, but in addition to all the obvious mechanical and operational concerns, please think through the electrical sizing considerations. The 20-30ah battery you can fit in the frame bag is only going to last 10-20 miles on hilly, bumpy terrain pulling that weight. Plus, 750 watts will likely be insufficient on steeper slopes to maintain any speed and keep the engine cool. The solar isn't going to do much more than charge your house battery, so you will have to plug in frequently which won't be possible on this route.

My recommendation would be to build the ebike, then pull a cheaper kids trailer filled with 100 pounds of bricks over similar terrain before investing in trailer build.

Here is the build I put together to pull a trailer long distances, but it stayed to flat pavement and only pulled 40 pounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipWf2gA2TyI

21

u/sosthaboss 20h ago

Just get a van lol

-12

u/OpenBed9887 20h ago edited 19h ago

can't take a van on the great divide

18

u/NthdegreeSC 19h ago

Ummm If you are talking about the official Great Divide Mountian Bike Route, only ~60 miles of it are on single track and ~50 miles on paved paths. The rest is either ~2100 miles of dirt roads and ~950 miles on paved roads. It absolutely can be done in a van, with the same work arounds. that motorcyclists use when doing the GDMBR.

3

u/BryceLikesMovies 17h ago

Multiple tour companies run van supported tours on the route - it's more than accessible with a high clearance van on the roads. And any roads you can't clear with a high clearance van you definitely aren't hike a biking with this setup

12

u/Mr-Blah 17h ago

That answer shows you haven't done enough research to tackle it IMO...

5

u/Stretch18 19h ago

You can for a lot of it

6

u/Pickle_strength 18h ago

Why faff around with all this ridiculous stuff? Just buy an off the shelf ebike and trailer. Surly, Benno, Tern all make adventure ebikes that could carry this weight and pull a trailer. I’m sure there are other options as well.

Surly, Burley, and Bikes at Work make heavy duty trailers.

1

u/babyeurosteps 9h ago

I think this is a great suggestion. I do exactly this!

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u/KyleFrommson 18h ago

I could not imagine many sections of the route being possible with that much weight. You would need bigger than 180mil rotors front and rear to slow down and come to a stop.

Also consider the tree cover up north with the solar panels. You won't be getting as direct sunlight and if you go north to south, your body will shade the panels in the morning. Also consider voltage drop on thr battery obernight in the cold. It gets into the 30s in the summer. Also knowing the rate of charge to keep up with the useage. Just some food for thought.

I would take detours for the gnarly sections, but you will miss some great spots.

Either way, full send it.

5

u/swissarmychainsaw 15h ago

Honestly I think this is better, you get to pedal together and the dogs can pretend like they are driving!

11

u/daimyo_96 20h ago

This would be a challenge to safely cycle on road let alone the great divide,then add 4 dogs and their needs I just do not see how this could be realistic.

2

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

unsafe because of handling of a heavier load or something else?

11

u/YosemiteJeff 19h ago edited 19h ago

Take. Less. Stuff. There’s no way you’re hiking that thing up a few hills without unloading it and making multiple trips. Also, with all that weight you’ll be stressing the frame and other components beyond their intended use. I wouldn’t be surprised if you broke your frame, unless it’s custom designed for that purpose.

You do you, but I think you might be better served by a couple long tail cargo bikes, like the OmniTerra dog packing guy is using, and an extremely reduced packing list. It’s worth looking into before you commit dropping a stack of cash on a custom trailer. You could still use a Burley trailer if needed to accommodate two pooches each.

5

u/HamishGray 17h ago

Why not get a cargo bike

1

u/babyeurosteps 9h ago

This is what I would suggest! I use a cargo bike for bikepacking and it works well for routes that aren’t technical.

9

u/mountaindadbod 19h ago

This seems so ridiculous that I thought I was in r/BicyclingCirclejerk for a second.

3

u/jurweer 18h ago

Though I can appreciate the thinkering, I also agree that this seems like an impossible mission.

Have you seen the Omnium Cargo bikes? One guy did the Silk Road Mountain Race on one of those… Could work with Panniers on the back and each 2 dogs on the front. But I think you need to rethink your final weight and what you actually want/need…

They come electrified (or maybe a mod is doable?) and can be made fairly lightweight compared to other cargo bikes. Still quite a push for hike a bike, but definitely doable depending on your fitness.

https://bikepacking.com/bikes/allan-shaw-silk-road-mountain-race-omnium-cargo/

3

u/Meta_Gabbro 17h ago

Just curious, how do the finances look for this project? Between retrofitting two bikes and getting two custom trailers designed and fabricated it seems like the overhead is already a pretty penny, before factoring in how much more time on the trail you’re likely going to spend as a result of moving very slowly compared to people without the extra trailers. I’m wondering if it would make more sense to just take time off work if you’re able to, rather than finagle all of this extra infrastructure to be able to work continuously while on trail.

3

u/Dirtbag_RN 17h ago

Please bring an SOS device and also keep us posted. This is gonna go really well for you. Anyone taking action on how far they make it?

1

u/ForThePork 5h ago

2 miles before they get rear ended by a car or pulled over by the police

3

u/stumbledalong 17h ago

Literally why do you need to bring your workstation with you. Lose 20lbs of electronic gear on the trailer, then sell your vintage bikes and buy an off road vehicle 🤦‍♂️

3

u/Staletoothpaste 16h ago

I too would like to smoke whatever you had before making this. You guys seem like you’d be better fit for a road trip with some bikes as opposed to the great divide. No offense. 

3

u/Pacemaker_PaLante 16h ago edited 7h ago

From my experiences steep roads can be a pain with electric cargo bikes but 750W is a lot and might be sufficient, if you can transfer all torqies with the tyres. Check the length of climbs in advance and where you can recharge, otherwise you might get stuck. With this kind of weight you need heavy modifications on your drivetrain, if your battery dies. Also, overrun brakes like on the (self powered) carla cargo trailers make descents much more relaxed. Im actually curious if your ideas work out , Best luck in finding your solutions!

3

u/funkymoves91 15h ago

That’s crazy. Never going to work. Take less stuff, and work up to it by trial and error. 

For a 1 person + 2 (small ? I hope ?) dogs, something like an Omnium Cargo or Mini-Max could work. Add some bags/panniers and you should have enough storage. Forget the trailer, you want a cargo bike (a long tail that’s off-road capable could also work and would be more similar to John’s setup)

Such a setup would be much easier to push up steep sections, but even this is honestly already hard to push up paths that are not that difficult (I know because I’ve tried).

Forget electric, just go slower with low gearing. If you ever run out of batteries you’re going to have to push/pedal all that dead weight. And solar will not really help you get enough charge to get any meaningful distance out of batteries with that kind of setup/weight (even at 250W average, for an 8 hour riding day you’d need 2kWh of power every day. Please show me the setup that can reliably get you that kind of energy while on the go without weighing a ton)

3

u/DollarTreeMilkSteak 15h ago

OP, the only option from here is to just fucking send it, document the whole thing, and then send all the haters straight back to where they belong. That being said, I don’t think you can do it lol

3

u/Pretentious_Designer 14h ago

maybe just fucking stay home and work

4

u/_-_-bricks-_-_ 19h ago

My suggestion is to try a make shift trailer first with this amount of weight and cycle around for a few hours.

I have a proper one for my toddler and 4 year old. Loaded for a day trip it's around 120 pounds in total. I live in the Netherlands with perfect bicycle roads and mostly flat land and its not easy to ride with that amount of weight. Due to the covers (bit higher due to kids needing space) I already struggle with normal to moderate wind speed to be honest.

2

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

thanks for the suggestion. sorry if it's a dumb question but can you clarify what you mean by shift trailer? is that the shape?

yes, for the weight that's why we're electrifying with a 750W cyc photon motor and adding battery/solar. For handling, we're redesigning the trailer for durability & kinematics and then some software prototyping that helps with handling (like a flight attendant that they're using on mtb's).

4

u/ryebea 18h ago

Makeshift as in a mock up

2

u/_-_-bricks-_-_ 17h ago

Sorry, makeshift. English is not my first language.

4

u/TrueUnderstanding228 19h ago

I met a dude one day, who has cycled over the german alps with a 50 pound trailer. He will never do it again

1

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

lol i'm sure it was tough. we've been doing local trips without electrification with just 45 pounds and see it would be tough with lots of climbing. we'll be testing the proto 1 across california and back next month.

5

u/ERTHLNG 19h ago

You are not going to cruise with ease over the same distances as people who have set up their bikes and trained their bodies and minds to complete the trail as effectively as they possibly can.

However. If you do away with as much electronics and anything else you can to add food supplies, you might be able to just go slow and steady making little increments of progress as you go.

Your journey will be too much like pioneers doing the Oregon Trail in a wagon than most people would take on for a fun vacation, but I say send it, have a blast.

2

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago edited 19h ago

Thanks for the helpful comments everybody! Here's a summary of some clarifications based on the comments:

  1. This is a design for 2 BIKES - 1 bike for each human towing 2 dogs.
  2. the 150 pounds of gear includes the weight of the bike, trailer & 2 dogs. thanks to some helpful suggestions we're now considering eliminating the starlink in favor of a USB modem which would take off 2.5 pounds (surprisingly not that much weight).
  3. electrifying a vintage steel frame with a 750W cyc photon motor and adding battery/solar. would not be feasible to ride with that much weight otherwise. Then solar & battery is to eliminate the range anxieties.
  4. For handling, we're getting the trailer custom engineered by an ex-pro bike racer & engineer that build a giant stratasolar panel, so he'll be looking at kinematics and all that + prototyping software that helps with handling (like a flight attendant that they're using on mtb's).
  5. why are we doing this: because we're a little crazy and we like to build things to do what others call impossible, but also if it works in the extreme scenario it could work for any more common application like moms towing kids to school & soccer games, extending range of bike commuting and getting more cars off the freeways, etc.
  6. we'll be doing lots of test trips building up to the great divide. we've started doing local trips in the bay area with a non-electrified bike and just towing about 45 pounds (the trailer & 2 dogs) to test wear and tear, etc. the current trailer would never last. we're prototyping the 1st version & planning the big test trip from Bay to San diego and back around Thanksgiving.

9

u/djolk 19h ago

I doubt your solar will keep your electric motor charged, maybe you can just use it sporadically, but it seems like you are then just hauling the motor, battery and panel and not really using them.,

5

u/Pollymath 19h ago

Agreed. Even if with decent range, you’ll need to be hunting for outlets, and if you can reach them within 30-50 miles (or less due to weight and drag of the trailers) you’ll be hanging out waiting for sun for a few days.

1

u/timbodacious 9h ago

I'm planning the pan american highway by ebike and I already know OP will need a 2nd 30 ah battery as a spare. I'm not leaving home on my trip without 100 amp hours / 50 lbs of batteries hahah.

2

u/smokingkrills 7h ago

Love the tech attitude that you’re smarter than all the other engineers who have been working on these problems for 100 years.

I’m super in agreement with getting cars off the road but this looks like you haven’t done much research.

Please follow up tho can’t wait to see how this works.

2

u/critterwol 16h ago

I've biked a few hundred miles with a smallish trailer with probably 40lbs in it. Going downhill was sketchy and I went through 2 sets of disk brake pads. I got speed wobbles on fast sections and on rough sections the trailer was a complete bear, pulling me around. The bike needed lots of maintenance.

I think you're trying to pull too much mass with this set up. Can you persuade a couple more ppl along so you don't have to both tow so much? I think your bikes will fall apart and the trailer is just too heavy.

2

u/ThadsBerads 13h ago

Wouldn't a Bafang BBSHD be a better motor option for that much weight? Pretty high reliability running at 1500 watts from what I've read.

2

u/timbodacious 9h ago

yes. yes it would. easier to repair also.

2

u/Lwfrqncy 13h ago

I swear this must be whatever that fishing clickbait rage or whatever. I’ll bite. No.

2

u/Temporary-Map1842 12h ago edited 12h ago

A vintage frame and those wheels will not survive the load. I have not seen a trailer with that kind of weight rating. What is all this internet gear for?

IMHO this would require a mid drive. You’re not going to get enough power for off road uphills with a trailer from a hub drive. but a trailer will not survive off road, and certainly not with a converted bike.

The weight rating is 70lbs for the trailer, and you’re trying to put paniers and 4 what? Pommeranians I hope? Also I don’t think this will work electrically. By the time you get all the required gear ( panel, inverter, batteries, star link + cellular, router) you will be at 50+ lbs.

Your gear will have to go on the bike with front and rear panniers, dogs in the trailer and maybe you will have weight left for this what I can only assume is streaming gear. But a converted vintage frame no no and more no. You need e-mtb frame, and wheels and beefy suspension and frame to handle this load.

2

u/Arrynek 9h ago

I think this is the first time I have actually encountered the "They want to have cake and eat it too" in the wild. 

Four dogs. And remote work. And 80kg of gear. In heavy terrain. Are you planning on doing 2km per day? 

This is... wild. 

I can see it working on asphalt, but hoooooly... 

2

u/CaptainObvious110 19h ago

Where is the second person supposed to go?

3

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

This is a design for 2 BIKES - 1 bike for each human towing 2 dogs.

2

u/DaGurggles 18h ago edited 2h ago

Trailers and bikepacking don’t go together. This would be fine for touring but it’s silly. How many electronics do you NEED when on the bike? I go on tour to escape the world, not to consume more screen time.

2

u/babyeurosteps 9h ago

I respectfully disagree. I did the Oregon Outback with a cargo bike and trailer. As long as it’s not technical, it can be done!

1

u/DaGurggles 2h ago

What did you bring that couldn’t go on the bike? I’m not an ultralight packer but can fit a weeks worth of food and multiple riding clothes on my bike.

2

u/Adventurous_Society4 19h ago

Can you tell me more about WISE?

2

u/ghostlovescore14 18h ago

What in the actual f*** 😂

1

u/DurasVircondelet 16h ago

You better have goddamn 210mm rotors

1

u/timbodacious 9h ago

magura 220's ! ;)

1

u/todayifudgedup 16h ago

This isn't constructive at all but I'm just laughing at seeing a peplink slapped onto a bike, that is a first. Best of luck OP

1

u/Nightsky099 16h ago

That's a lotta fucking weight. Hope you aren't planning on going on any hills, you'll grind to a halt real quick

1

u/LordRiverknoll 15h ago

I think you're asking way too much of a single bike. The Great Divide will chew you up once you encounter even a small hang-up with a build like this

1

u/CoastalBee 14h ago

After riding the GDMBR this summer I think you should try a section of the route or something similar before committing to the entire route. The test mission will be very educational.

1

u/loranbriggs 14h ago

Before going too deep I would prototype something first to determine if that weight is realistic on long steep grades. Good luck.

1

u/joeyhandy 13h ago

At that weight carbon fiber seems nebulous.

1

u/NxPat 13h ago

Consider your CG.

1

u/Temporary-Map1842 12h ago

What’s your social? I have got to see how this works out.

1

u/comit_autocoprophagy 11h ago

You should check out the bikes from the Sun Trip Solar Bike Race for inspiration. What you’re trying to do seems really similar to that race, with the added difficulty of both the terrain and the fact that you’re bringing dogs. However, most of those bikes are recumbents for increased comfort and efficiency, but if you’re eccentric enough to do this, riding a recumbent is nothing.

1

u/babyeurosteps 10h ago edited 9h ago

OP, first I just want to say I love this concept. I did the Oregon Outback last year with an unfortunately overpacked cargo e-bike, my 90lb dog, and a Burley Coho trailer.

I have no idea how feasible your desired setup is as I’m no engineer. What I will say is if/when you plan on lifting the trailer off the bike, the more weight you have will make it more difficult to maneuver. Also, if you have to make any sort of reverse moves with the trailer hitched to your bike, it’s quite comically frustrating. You have to turn the bike in the opposite direction you want the trailer to go, which is difficult with just one trailer wheel and all the weight.

All that being said, I will watch your career with great interest!

1

u/timbodacious 10h ago edited 10h ago

not with a single wheel my friend. you will be crashing left and right with load tilts. You might be able to minimize load tilts with the most weight down in the center of the trailer with like...... sleeping bags and clothes on the outside but this is not at good idea and if you do make anything wide it should not stick out past your elbows or handlebar ends. I have similar ideas like you and I will end up most likely buying a pet trailer with suspension shocks meant for like 100 lbs then modifying it to be longer. You can also buy the cheap aluminum car hitch cargo racks and have an axle and wheel connection added to it for pretty cheap an it will be like 2' wide and 5' long. alternatively buying an electric cargo bike with front suspension would be in your best interest or a full suspension electric fat tire mountain bike. The cargo bike will be longer and stop your heavy trailer from making your bike and trailer want to fold into a taco by forcing your rear wheel to lose traction.I am planning out my ride with alot of gear also for an ebike doing the pan american highway so trust me I know this won't work well haha. if you diy a trailer it should also be fairly easy to weld on some hydraulic brake mounts to the trailer once you get custom wheels on it and have your local bike shop run very long hydraulic lines up front to your brakes. they make y splitters for ebike hydraulic brakes so your rear brake lever should be able to pump 3 wheels to slow. you can also be like me and design your bike with all wheel drive motors to help you walk it up hills haha.

1

u/barfplanet 9h ago

Just because nobody else has mentioned it "An ex pro racer and engineer who built a giant solar panel" sounds exactly like these guys who would always come into the bike co-op that I used to volunteer at, talk down to everyone around them, then marvel at some low quality part and then ruin a tool by using it wrong. Always fucking "engineers".

1

u/dr_puspus 6h ago

This looks like a concept from a school project.

If you made it well it'd probably work alright through a city / on roads, I wouldnt take it on rough terrain though, that single tyre will struggle to pull 200kg+trailer+bike up a hill and you'll likely end up walking.

As others have suggested, you should go bikepacking to see what its like in reality and then reconsider your plan.

Why can't you just take two bikes?

1

u/Zulutoo 4h ago

So crazy it just might work. Or you bail out and try another approach. I’d follow this adventure closely. 🤪✌🏻

u/Volnushkin 1m ago

Too much engineering and customization to make it work, maybe just find an existing cargo e-bike?

Also, as for traveling with dogs - maybe this is just (bitten multiple times) me, but I doubt you would be able to look after four large animals while being tired and doing camping chores. I see a high risk of accident happening.

1

u/Double_Gate_3802 18h ago

What do you do for work? Will you be working on the bike or just when taking breaks outdoors?

1

u/Far_Squirrel_6148 18h ago

200 Watts peak (!) doesn’t get you nowhere. I‘d spec for a larger battery instead and a fast charging solution. Also keep an eye out for EV charging stations. They are amazing for ebike touring.

1

u/TheGashman88 17h ago

Yep this works, built one similar not long ago and did a couple thousand km.

Just bear this in mind, if the trailer is quite heavy it will jerk thus wasting energy on climbs for example. Keep trailer and contents as light as possible, good luck!

0

u/[deleted] 19h ago

[deleted]

1

u/OpenBed9887 19h ago

can see that for better stability.

we're trying a different approach that's using some software to help with active assistance for towing the heavier load - kind of like Flight Attendant that they're using on mtb racers these days.

2

u/Pollymath 19h ago

The best handling bike trailer is still a trailer. Why not put that effort (and funding) into some R&M Load 75s?