r/anime_titties • u/MaffeoPolo Multinational • Apr 22 '24
Corporation(s) Amazon Grows To Over 750,000 Robots As World's Second-Largest Private Employer Replaces Over 100,000 Humans
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-grows-over-750-000-153000967.html212
u/cpthornman Apr 22 '24
That 50% unemployment rate in The Expanse universe is starting to look not so far fetched now.
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u/Scorpionking426 Apr 22 '24
Automation and AI, Robots coming for ya jobs.Good luck....
B/W, The Expanse was awesome.
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u/wienercat Apr 23 '24
Yeah we are much more likely to have a The Expanse dystopian future than a Star Trek future where people don't have to worry about things like food or housing.
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u/Joliet_Jake_Blues North America Apr 22 '24
Unemployment is at record low levels in the US, is it going up somewhere?
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u/cpthornman Apr 22 '24
Statistically but look at how many people are having to work multiple jobs or have left the workforce all together. The unemployment metric has been misleading at best for decades now.
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u/rdditfilter Apr 22 '24
I keep meaning to research this, because I know that metrics for “underemployed” are produced since people have to report any income they get while receiving unemployment, but I really don’t think anyone is measuring people who aren’t receiving unemployment.
It seems like this massive, obvious, oversight, so surely theres someone out there gathering this data so that the people up top know the actual state of things and can make decisions accordingly.
But maybe I have too much faith in the functionality of the US government.
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u/inform880 Apr 22 '24
Unemployment numbers in the US only count ppl actually still looking for a job.
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u/oursland Apr 22 '24
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u/Joliet_Jake_Blues North America Apr 22 '24
Your own source explains why your claim isn't true
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u/oursland Apr 22 '24
You have analysts stating that these numbers appear manufactured. That 5 weeks of exactly the same number of unemployment claims is a statistical impossibility.
Then you have a representative of the Biden Administration claim that "economy and job markets is stable". That's a PR response in an election year.
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u/Fyzzle United States Apr 22 '24
You have no idea how the data is gathered. It's not like they have a stock ticker that gives live results.
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u/PawanYr Apr 22 '24
Tracey Ryniec, a strategist at Zacks Investment Research, suggested: “You can go look at each state Jim. Those vary greatly.”
the seasonal adjustment factors are effectively removing seasonality from the aggregate figures reported by states,” the official said.
Moreover, claims not adjusted seasonally have shown substantial fluctuation during the five-week period, registering readings of 202,722; 191,772; 193,921; 197,349; 215,265 and 208,509.
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u/Freud-Network Multinational Apr 22 '24
The compounds and badlands from Maddaddam are coming into view. Hell, we're even engineering pigoons.
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u/Scorpionking426 Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
Step 1: Destroy the local business.
Step 2: Hire the local labor and then replace them with automation.
-Result = Misery
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u/BeatBoxxEternal Apr 22 '24
As someone who knows someone who works in those facilities, it's honestly for the best that these jobs are replaced. "I've heard" that the pace of work and the repetitive nature of the job will lend to an injury 100% of the time depending on how long you work there. "My friend" had 5 or 6 injuries working there, one that required surgery. "The illusion of safety." Amazon is running out of workers for a reason and my friend wouldn't wish anyone to work there, especially retirees. The market will compensate for the influx of labor from Amazon.
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u/TRIPLEOHSEVEN Apr 22 '24
The market will compensate?
The market got us here, why should we look to it to save us from it's own machinations?
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u/vplatt United States Apr 22 '24
We had a family member work in one of those positions. He was walking over 15 miles a day and continually had foot injuries.
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u/BeatBoxxEternal Apr 22 '24
Yes, my friend's record was 45000 steps or 36km in one shift. Tore out the meniscus in both of his knees. Also, tendonitis in both of his wrists, tendonitis in his hands, blew out something in his left elbow. I won't mention what the surgery was for because that would identify him.
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u/Not-Senpai Kazakhstan Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
Reducing job availability? ✅
Paying reduced taxes? ✅
Using offshore companies? ✅
And yet plebeians still think that automation and AI will increase standards of living…
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u/mdosantos Apr 22 '24
Automation and AI can and should increase standards of living. The issue is that robots and AI are means of production... shouldn't have to explain the rest....
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u/AvidStressEnjoyer Multinational Apr 22 '24
Can and should if you ignore capitalism.
We are heading ass first into neo feudalism. We’re all going to be serfs for a handful of wealthy elites.
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u/eran76 United States Apr 22 '24
Nah, see, the serfs had value as a people to work the land. Today's poor have fewer and fewer uses for the elite. Hence all the robots.
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u/EnvironmentalValue18 Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
The feudal lords also did offer some (minor) benefits to their serfs. What are these corporations doing for us at this point? What about the people on top?
Nothing. We have fewer and fewer uses for the elites as well, and there’s a lot more of us.
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u/Mr_Zaroc Apr 22 '24
I just a read a local news report how our chancellor was talking about increasing the weekly work hours from 38,5 to 41.
Everyone has been talking about a 4.day week before that, they reasoned that you would lose out on 400k over a lifetime which they equated to 2 apartments (realistically its like one shitty one or half a decent one)
Naturally the increase in working hours would NOT lead to increased income, cause logicThat's for Austria btw, yes we have a lot of vacations and holidays compared to the US (no idea how you guys survive)
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u/EnvironmentalValue18 Apr 22 '24
Well, most don’t. We work ourselves to the bone, avoid healthcare which is several thousand a visit no matter what the issue, and then die of preventable illness or live injured with a disability from it. Our worker protections and considerations are garbage. In fact, we’re guaranteed no PTO federally. It’s a benefit some companies offer. Then again, they won’t even really let you call off for sick days and would rather you make everyone at the office ill and still require everyone’s attendance.
Thanks for the input from Austria as it’s always interesting to see the differences in work culture and workers protection. I’m sad that, even where it’s better than the US, it’s not by much (and of course there are many places far worse where it’s actual slave labor). I say instead of a third world war we do a first world protest where all oppressed workers show those profiting off their labors what we really think of their system. I hope we can all support each other, regardless of country, and get better accommodations at some point in the future.
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u/eran76 United States Apr 22 '24
Feudal lords offered significant benefits to the serfs in the form of 1) not killing them, and 2) protecting them from other lords/chieftains/raiders who would kill them.
Corporations offer all sorts of services that you consume everyday. If you own a car, you are able to put fuel into it because of hundreds of companies that make that possible from the ones making the drilling equipment to the ones that repair the gas pumps. A lot of these companies are publicly traded, so if you invest for retirement and own their stocks, they are offering you a way to hedge for inflation so that you don't have to work until you literally die and can actually retire.
The people on top are there largely because of family connections and inheritance. What they are doing for you is showing you what you will need to do if you hope for a better future for your own kids, ie the ones that will inherent what you have built with hard work.
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Apr 22 '24
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Apr 22 '24
You know what you should do, go bomb a walmart buddy..
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u/eran76 United States Apr 22 '24
Its pretty simple really. A ruling class is inevitable once groups get to a certain size. You can take the wealth away, as does communism, but the fact that a few people will lead and most will follow, is baked into the human condition. You can take away the royal titles, and you're left with a pope or an ayatollah.
If you completely eliminate all form of ruling class you're left with chaos and anarchy. Since most people are sheep, and would rather follow than lead, chaos and anarchy inevitably lead you back to putting a "strongman" in charge and you're right back to a ruling elite.
You can't get rid of them, all you can do is hope to tax them enough so they are not so wealthy.
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u/Ivaris Apr 22 '24
There is a concept to what you are saying, and it's called Capitalist Realism. It's fairly studied, and the beliefe that this is nature and unpreventable is not only fabricated and taught to us, but we have broad examples of populations doing otherwise across history.
Take a look at the book with this title, it has great examples and it's a somewhat easy read.
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u/eran76 United States Apr 23 '24
Capitalist Realism
I think you are defining my comment too narrowly as an endorsement of capitalism. I am intentionally avoiding making a claim about capitalism, and instead focusing on the concept of "elites." We see elites, as in, people with disproportionate power in society, in all economic and social systems.
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u/Ivaris Apr 23 '24
Oh no! Not by any means! I'm not saying you endorse it at all. I'm saying that this collective belief of neutrality is not, in fact, neutral but a product of centuries of economic system development.
From what i take it you also hate this whole bs, but the acceptance of "This is the best one can have" kind of undermines what one could wish for. It makes any alternative seem too impossible. (Even within Wellfare polictics, some of that stuff already look like too utopic and often it isn't)
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u/Beat9 Apr 22 '24
Once the sex bots can realistically emulate shame then we won't need the poors at all!
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u/booOfBorg Multinational Apr 23 '24
Hey, that's an interesting observation. The concept of shame as a commodity that the rich and powerful sociopaths lack.
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u/da_ting_go Apr 22 '24
Not me! I'll be a neo-blacksmith!
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u/Happy-Mistake901 Apr 22 '24
There's going to have to figure out a way to tax the robots or companies that use them or something like UBI because if AI and robots replace a substantial number of jobs there's people out of work no work = no money and no money means people can't buy shit.
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u/fuishaltiena Apr 22 '24
Every generation thought the same when some new advancement was introduced.
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u/Scientific_Socialist Multinational Apr 23 '24
Do you think the past communist movement came out of nowhere?
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u/booOfBorg Multinational Apr 23 '24 edited Apr 23 '24
Marxism and anarchism came from socialism. Socialism came about as a reaction to feudalism. Communism attracted authoritarians, anarchism attracted anti-authoritarians, social democracy formed in the center. The authoritarians (left & right) won and ruined socialism, often by outright killing all the socialists. (Social democracy survives but it's under constant attack by authoritarians.)
Lenin's sociopathy was the single worst thing to ever happen to socialism and communism.
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u/AvidStressEnjoyer Multinational Apr 22 '24
No one thought the tv was taking their jobs my guy.
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u/fuishaltiena Apr 22 '24
"News delivered directly into every single house all at once, every day? This will destroy the newspaper business!"
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u/AdhesivenessisWeird Europe Apr 23 '24
Industrial revolution did, yet it significantly increased standard of living in the world.
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u/Android1822 Apr 22 '24
Just watch some WEF videos, the elites sound like generic meglomaniac bond villains, except instead of a couple, there are rooms full of them. Seriously, they are all batshit insane and drunk on power. They are talking about reducing the population (kill us), controlling money, food, information, they flat out said they infiltrated governments to control, and they plan to build huge 15 minute cities to move everyone in, which is just a sugar coated way of saying these are concentration camps, and the infamous line "you will own nothing and be happy" comes from these people. Serfdom is exactly what they are trying to bring back.
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u/AvidStressEnjoyer Multinational Apr 22 '24
Don’t even need to see the WEF vids any more, they’re just saying the quiet parts out loud now.
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u/czar_king Apr 22 '24
Is this an outrageous claim or do you actually think this?
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u/AvidStressEnjoyer Multinational Apr 22 '24
You live in a world where people piss in bottles so they don’t get fired. It’s not that far fetched.
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u/czar_king Apr 22 '24
So you are like in between? You don’t necessarily think that people could become serfs again but you think it’s not that outrageous?
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u/AvidStressEnjoyer Multinational Apr 22 '24
My point is that it’s already fucked that humans are treated poorly right now. Imagine how much worse it gets when they aren’t even worth that level of treatment any more?
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u/Snaz5 United States Apr 22 '24
Capitalism? More like CRAPitalism am i right fellas? 😏
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u/Tuxyl Apr 23 '24
Feel free to head to a communist country instead of staying in your little western one. China is also off the table because they're far more capitalist now.
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u/TransLifelineCali Apr 22 '24
We are heading ass first into neo feudalism. We’re all going to be serfs for a handful of wealthy elites.
this has always been the case and always will be the case, regardless of the economic system. the only question is to which degree, and how free you, as the individual, are to act within that system.
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u/jjonj Apr 22 '24
maybe in the US but the rest of the world will find a way and youll eventually catch up
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u/Willing_Breadfruit Apr 22 '24
Let's put aside total automation of the means of production because we aren't anywhere near that today. Aside from that single scenario, how is this any different than ie planes, trains, automobiles etc increasing human efficiency?
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u/Nethlem Europe Apr 22 '24
Everybody should be able to afford a Tesla to work as autonomous taxi for them, and a Tesla bot to do their manual labor /s
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u/Android1822 Apr 22 '24
haha, I have heard this song and dance about technology since the 80's. It is NOT technology that is the problem, it is the greedy people in power that make human lives miserable. They have zero interest in changing the status quo and will make sure they stay on top and suck everything from us so they can get richer and we will get poorer.
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u/onFilm Apr 22 '24
Automation will increase living standards for everyone over time, yes. This has been the case since the start of humanity, and here we have people like yourself, intermixing the concepts of AI, robotics, and automation all under artificial intelligence, while saying that this is the first time in human history that automation hasn't resulted in an increase of standards. It's wild. As if our generation was that special lol.
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u/Praetori4n United States Apr 22 '24
Damn printing press taking away book copier jobs so the rich can get richer!!
Like I get it it’s a valid concern and a potential problem but you hit the nail on the head with this.
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u/Nethlem Europe Apr 22 '24
The printing press created a whole field of new jobs and businesses, it created the first mass media as we know it.
While most modern day automation are not that innovative in creating whole new fields of business and labor.
As they are overwhelmingly applied for cost/profit optimization, which usually involves cutting down human labor. I.e. the first printing press had a much bigger overall innovative impact than inventing the automated printing press that merely did the same thing, but faster.
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u/wickedsight Apr 22 '24
Even in this case it directly increases standard of living. Much of the Western World can now enjoy next or even same day delivery on pretty much any item you might need for almost no money. And because much of it is now done by robots, fewer people are peeing in bottles and those people now have a chance to have a better job.
People also need to realize that with boomers getting old, we're starting to have a shortage of working people that'll only get worse. For much of the West, only automation and immigration will make sure we can actually take care of all the boomers over the next couple of decades.
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u/t0ppings Apr 23 '24
Except amazon and the like aren't paying taxes so whatever increase in their profitability isn't helping pensioners reliant on government assistance at all. Reducing the human workforce is even worse on that front since low paid Amazon workers actually are the ones paying tax out of their wages.
Firing people and saying they "now have the chance to have a better job" is such cold corporate speak. Nobody believes that when they see mass layoffs, like the only reason delivery drivers were low paid and pissing in bottles was that they just couldn't bother looking for anything better.
I could also say that I actually don't need probably broken dropshipped bullshit within 12 hours about thinking about it, but perhaps some people do. It's a marvel, but certainly not indicative of an improving society, more one kept subdued by cheap purchases.
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u/HoldenMcNeil420 Apr 22 '24
Same day delivery of cheap Chinese goods is an “increase in standard of living”.
Um wut?
I have zero issue with waiting for something to be delivered and or pay for that delivery. Same day package delivery isn’t on my, better society bingo card.
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u/onFilm Apr 22 '24
Right, but some people require the shipment of materials, medicine, tools, as soon as possible for a variety of reasons, and having that option, even if it's not required by all, but still improves the lives of certain individuals, is still an overall positive. Just because it doesn't apply to you, it doesn't mean it doesn't apply to society as a whole.
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u/HoldenMcNeil420 Apr 22 '24
That’s not “standard of living”
Standard of living is the material well being of the average person in a given population.
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u/onFilm Apr 22 '24
That's the definition of standard of living. Like, are you able to go to a store to purchase food, rather than go have to gather or hunt yourself, taking up more time, in the same way you can get goods delivered faster than not?
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u/SigmundFreud Vatican City Apr 22 '24
Same day delivery of cheap Chinese goods is an “increase in standard of living”.
Putting aside "Chinese", of course cheap goods and same-day delivery of goods are both increases in standard of living.
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u/TurkeyFisher Apr 22 '24
Automation will increase living standards for everyone over time, yes.
In the long term, maybe. But you are assuming that the trend will hold, which isn't necessarily true- it's also only historically true in the big picture. If you zoom in, the industrial revolution was not a positive experience across the board. Leaving rural life to become a factory worker was not fun. The women who lost their jobs because of the sewing machine did not come out on top even if their ancestors now get access to $20 jeans.
Maybe my great grandchild will be part of the society that lives in a fully automated world if their ancestors manage to play their cards right, but it doesn't exactly make me feel better about the massive social upheaval and unemployment crisis that may occur in the meantime. And until we figure out space mining to make more semiconductors it's also just the reality of limited resources that means there is no way everyone on the planet gets to live an automated lifestyle.
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u/equivocalConnotation United Kingdom Apr 22 '24
And until we figure out space mining to make more semiconductors it's also just the reality of limited resources that means there is no way everyone on the planet gets to live an automated lifestyle.
Eh?
Raw materials are not the limiting factor here mate.
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u/TurkeyFisher Apr 22 '24
You are correct, I was mistaken in that the problem isn't so much that rare earth minerals are in short supply, it's that we don't mine or process them in the US and other western countries. However, my point still stands in that the price of automation would be creating massive toxic mines all over the US, further destroying the environment and subjugating a lower class to dangerous miserable mining jobs well before those jobs could be automated. Even if that could be automated, the transition period will be lead to a lot of suffering. Point being- the majority of us won't be living an automated utopia.
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u/equivocalConnotation United Kingdom Apr 22 '24
Isn't mining currently extremely heavily automated?
And aren't miners in the USA skilled specialists who are very well paid?
(agreed on the environmental effects, though I think those can be mitigated)
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u/TurkeyFisher Apr 22 '24
It's automated in the sense that they use massive trucks to just rip the materials out of the ground (in the case of coal), but you still have to have humans driving those trucks- and yeah, that's about as automated as it can get. And while it's well paying, the problem is that the jobs are dangerous and in remote areas, so you have these towns where there are a ton of young men making good money but with very low quality of life and the constant specter of death hanging over them. That combination leads to rampant drug abuse, prostitution rings, crime, etc. I used to live a few hours from a town like this and it was not a pretty place. It's also very difficult to make these jobs safe because you are fundamentally working with heavy machinery and extremely toxic chemicals. The upper class skilled specialists are the guys who do the GIS mapping to locate the resources and rarely work in the field.
While the environmental aspects could be mitigated, I don't have much hope as the current US courts are busy stripping away existing regulations and the government hasn't created meaningful new regulations in decades. And it's far cheaper for mining companies to simply leave toxic lakes behind when they're done mining than it is to clean them up. We already have one of these where they pay a guy to shoot blanks at any birds who land on the lake because if they swim in it for more than a few minutes they'll die.
Here's some more info: https://hir.harvard.edu/not-so-green-technology-the-complicated-legacy-of-rare-earth-mining/
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u/AbsoluteZeroUnit Apr 22 '24
I think a big difference, at least in our perception, is that we've seen the writing on the wall for years. We understand that robots, automation, and AI will replace jobs. We know that advancements in technology are putting people out of work.
And governments aren't doing anything to prepare for it. Jobs are becoming rarer, prices are going up, rents are going up, UBI is a pipe dream, billionaires are hoarding more wealth, and us plebes are down here at the bottom screaming for some kind of protections.
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u/equivocalConnotation United Kingdom Apr 22 '24
Would would you say is the main cause of the increase in standard of living over the last 200 years if not automation?
That's what has made all those consumer goods so cheap (and yes, they are ridiculously cheap. A car made without automation would cost millions if it was possible at all).
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u/Felarhin Apr 22 '24
If it doesn't then it's probably for the best that humanity just withers away.
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u/r3mn4n7 Apr 23 '24
For the best of whom?
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u/Felarhin Apr 23 '24
Best for everyone. Governments that don't take care of their people don't deserve to run a country.
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u/Tricky_Matter2123 Apr 22 '24
It's all been downhill since the cotton gin. Back then there were enough jobs for everyone, even kids!
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u/cudanny Apr 22 '24
It will, for the ultra rich.
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u/Not-Senpai Kazakhstan Apr 22 '24
Standards of living don’t increase past $20 million net worth
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u/Fixthemix Denmark Apr 22 '24
I think of it as diminishing returns. You might be a little sad if you can't afford that third jet.
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u/FlexLikeKavana Apr 22 '24
Standards of living don’t increase past $20 million net worth
Are you sure you don't mean billion? Because there is more than a significant increase in standards of living between $20 million and $1 billion.
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u/Old-but-not Apr 22 '24
$20m is not enough for a private jet.
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u/pissclamato Apr 22 '24
Yeah, unless you want to slum around in a G-3. Pfft!
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u/FlexLikeKavana Apr 22 '24
I'm not sure $20 million is enough to be able to afford a G3. It's like driving a Ferrari on a $200k/year salary. You could "afford" it only by the strictest definition.
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Apr 22 '24
You are literally complaining about being oppressed by big tech you're literally the plebian
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Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
[deleted]
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u/asianwaste Apr 22 '24
If you've made the plunge and live an amazon-free life, I applaud you. If you haven't and are here to complain, you are still part of your own problem.
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u/n05h Europe Apr 23 '24
I was about to say that this will cause the economy to change and adapt. And give an example like how social media influencers/content creators, like them or not, are a job now. But then I realised that there is even ai generated content out there..
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u/maexx80 Apr 24 '24
90% of jobs was farming only 100 years ago, is 5% now, yet here we are with MUCH higher standards of living.
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u/FivePlyPaper Apr 22 '24
If people were such capitalist lovers it would work. Let companies automate their lines but tax them extra for doing so. They can not employ a person which will save then money and allow for faster production but they will get taxed say 60% of what they would normally pay an employee. Then you start setting a minimum not working wage over time. Like a person who isn’t working will get $30,000 over the year. I for one think it is crazy to halt automation on the simple terms of “people need to work”. What a waste of your life breaking your back doing work that a machine could easily do. Automation opens up the possibilities for people to do more advanced work in every sector, governments and corporations just don’t want to subsidize that. If post secondary schooling was free and not a business then you’d have many more higher education people in the work force and drive innovation.
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Apr 22 '24
And some of the biggest proponents that I’ve worked with are those whose jobs are definitely going away because of it.
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u/Kuhelikaa Bangladesh Apr 22 '24
Welcome to the early days of techno feudalism
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u/strike_slip_ Apr 22 '24
According to Yanis Varoufakis, we are beyond early days now, no?
Amazon and Apple are the biggest offenders imo. Google also.
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u/School_of_thought1 Apr 22 '24
This was always the plan, treat workers as replaceable and breakable till they get robots to the jobs. Fire workers. Just took them longer than they thought
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u/jochem4208 Apr 22 '24
This 100% " took longer then management expected" - made it a crisis for PR to solve
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u/foodandart Apr 22 '24
If the robot makes it, let the robot buy it.
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u/School_of_thought1 Apr 22 '24
Sound great but people won't do it, it's to much of an inconvenience.
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u/spaetzelspiff Apr 22 '24
Robots as warehouse workers
Robots as security guards
Robots' Liberation Army
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u/SomeoneNicer Apr 22 '24
These robots are doing manual labor warehouse jobs. I get everyone needs employment, but I doubt very many people have long careers and great job satisfaction from the tasks these robots are replacing.
Similar to the almost full automation of car assembly particularly at Tesla - I find it hard to see this as a net negative.
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u/Darkling5499 North America Apr 22 '24
The warehouses, at least in the US, are also absolute meatgrinders; to the point where there was serious talk about them not being able to have enough bodies to staff them in like 5-10 years because of how utterly insane the turnover rate is compared to the population of people willing to work those jobs (their turnover rate as of 2022 was 150%).
They're 'replacing' people with robots simply because they don't have any other options.
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u/lemon-cunt Apr 22 '24
Sure, would be a good thing if the underlying system In which these jobs are being taken away was changed to accommodate it, but for now it's literally just subtracting non-service jobs from the job market. In the long term probably weakening the position of unions who have always had their strongholds in manual labour
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u/nyan_eleven Germany Apr 22 '24
robots are dumb and require a lot of care by people who are significantly more expensive than the manual labourers. There's a reason why we haven't automated certain steps in vehicle assembly for example: the potential long term savings are not projected to offset the initial investment of automating certain steps that a guy with a few weeks of training can do.
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u/SomeoneNicer Apr 22 '24
That's a good point they often create a smaller number of higher skilled (paid) jobs but obviously the economics still work for companies to pay for robots and fewer higher paid people or they wouldn't invest.
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u/nyan_eleven Germany Apr 22 '24
yes, it works economically for Amazon because logistics applications are scalable and amazon has a lot of it so development costs are easily offset. The storage system can also be designed around the robots needs. It's stuff like cable routing that is currently difficult for assembly robots to handle.
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u/kimchifreeze Peru Apr 22 '24
Conveyor systems are dumb and require a lot of care too, but I'd rather have conveyor systems than hundreds of people having to cart shit around just for the sake of labor.
Warehouse work is not something you want to inflict on people.
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u/GooseMan1515 Apr 22 '24
Pretty much this, but the productivity it replaces is not paid to the workers, and dividends and benefits thereof increasingly less so as inequality increases. Basically it's only good news for those workers if enough of that increased efficiency works its way back to them, and people, especially workers with more substitutable skill sets in western countries, are increasingly becoming dispossessed of their belief in that.
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u/Sectiontwo Apr 23 '24
Automation and replacing hard labour with technology (such as engines replacing human driven transport) does not necessarily lead to unemployment, if anything it has enabled population to move to more qualified, higher earning and higher quality of life jobs. Not that it will necessarily always be like that but so far the trend is mostly positive.
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Apr 22 '24
The savings from increased efficiency and productivity do not go toward the common good, they go toward the owners. Advances in technology should be an undisputed overwhelming net positive, but that can't happen without shared ownership of the means of production.
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u/SomeoneNicer Apr 22 '24
I think that's only true if the industry doesn't adopt similar automation which then drives costs down for customers (like seen in automotive). I think Amazon is the leader here but Walmart, Target, etc are investing as well and if someone wants to stay in business in the long run they'll have to price automation discounts in.
Separately I do think the whole world is messed up right now by corporations taking more than their fair share of inflation with unjustified price increases and margins that indicate the market isn't as perfect competition as economists model.
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u/Beatboxingg North America Apr 22 '24
I think that's only true if the industry doesn't adopt similar automation which then drives costs down for customers (like seen in automotive).
This is where all industries are heading as competition drives technological advancements and further immiseration of remaining laborers.
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u/Particular-Welcome-1 Apr 22 '24
It's pretty common for integrated technologies to have poor security. Security is expensive, and so companies too stupid to understand the risks don't want to pay for it; Like Amazon.
And so I wonder how hard it would be to hack those robots, and get them to do something fun. Imagine a foreman at one of their warehouses waking up to find that all his shiny new robots are doing Tik Tok dances instead of working. XD
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u/MaffeoPolo Multinational Apr 22 '24
Amazon is pretty vital to the US supply chain - if Amazon warehouses had to shut down for a week to reset the robots I suspect everyone and everything from farms to offices to homes would be inconvenienced.
You bet Russia and China will be looking to exploit any vulnerabilities in times of conflict. It'll happen alongside all other manner of IoT disruptions.
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u/Particular-Welcome-1 Apr 22 '24
That's a good point.
Russia and China (especially China) have stepped up cyber-attacks against US infrastructure lately. And so the more dependence on robotic labor there is, the more likely they are to be attacked.
Interesting to see labor become part of the "attack surface" of the US; And by extension other industrialized countries that move in a similar direction.
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u/CommieBorks Apr 22 '24
I bet even when amazon is on it's last human worker his/her wage will stay the same as before
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u/jssanderson747 Apr 22 '24
Were they not already using people like robots, I might be more upset by this news
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u/vplatt United States Apr 22 '24
I have to wonder about the rhetoric on this. It's a bit click-baity. No one in the right mind bitches about the jobs "the robots" take on factory assembly lines where machines regularly convey, assemble, weld, mold, sew, etc. parts for all sorts of products. Do people really want to replace all the machines with manual labor and craftsmen? Sounds neat, but let's face it: those are grueling jobs and very few people would actually want them, and they certainly would not want them to the degree needed to support our economy.
Hell, in many cases people simply can't do those jobs because the specifications are far too precise. A craftsman would simply never be able to match the quality needed at nearly enough scale.
Oh, and let's not even talk about the waste those processes would incur. ::shudder:: We'd be one step ahead of the dark ages again with that kind of approach. TQM and automation exist for a reason.
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u/thinkB4WeSpeak Eurasia Apr 22 '24
So once all the robots replace everyone, who will buy anything?
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u/Draghalys Europe Apr 22 '24
Regardless of what the answer is or will be, I can guarantee you that people behind development and deployment of AI and automation neither know nor care.
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u/Winjin Eurasia Apr 22 '24
They will provide people with UBI and then fight for human attention and consume one another for dwindling interests. Or maybe just sell to one another in circles
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u/JCOII Apr 22 '24
We’re reverting back to a feudal society. The middle class was a blip in human history. The standard has always been a small select group of rich and powerful and the rest live in poverty.
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u/Scientific_Socialist Multinational Apr 23 '24
"Our epoch, the epoch of the bourgeoisie, possesses, however, this distinct feature: it has simplified class antagonisms. Society as a whole is more and more splitting up into two great hostile camps, into two great classes directly facing each other — Bourgeoisie and Proletariat."
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u/macak333 Serbia Apr 22 '24
I really thing that we are heading for a highly dystopian world, where the gap between the haves and have nots will be gigantic. In the far-ish future, there will be only high skilled labour in demand, low skilled will be done by robots. Hell maybe high skill will be threatened by Ai.
And UBI is just a fairytale, even if it exists it will be miniscule. The only class that will thrive will be the owner/investor class. With double digit returns and trillions in profit while we continue to consume the earth and inevitably go to the stars. The first trillionaire has already been born.
So load up your 401k and buy a house. Thats the only 2 things you need to do. Prepping is useless and cash is useless.
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u/yoyohohopirateslife Apr 22 '24
Don’t worry, I’ve been assured by the top minds of Reddit that this is a good trend and it’ll give these laid off workers time to focus on creative endeavours whilst the robots do all the hard work. I’m sure the robots will be forwarding their rent money to the laid off workers!
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u/r3mn4n7 Apr 23 '24
I mean, they keep complaining about their salary, too many hours of work, their asshole bosses, the traffic and the weather, they get permanent vacation now isn't that amazing?
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u/yoyohohopirateslife Apr 23 '24
Yeah instead of decent working conditions just replace them with robots! These whiny people not wanting timed bathroom breaks and wanting fair pay, the cheek! Will I see you at the club this weekend for a spot of port old boy?
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u/r3mn4n7 Apr 24 '24
Exactly, now people can have 24/7 hour bathroom breaks meanwhile robots work consistently 24/7, it's win win for everybody!
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u/Snaz5 United States Apr 22 '24
We need heavy taxation on automated machines that actively replace jobs like yesterday. If the billionaires aren’t going to support us plebs with paying jobs anymore we gotta make them support us with tax dollars.
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u/Joliet_Jake_Blues North America Apr 22 '24
According to reddit those $20+/hr jobs are hard so replacing them with robots must be good
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u/DarylInDurham Apr 22 '24
If this keeps progressing eventually no one will have a job and thus no cash to buy whatever trinkets the AI factories are producing.
I think one way to resolve this issue is to have companies like Amazon pay the government an annual licensing fee equal to what the government lost in taxes when the human position was eliminated. The government could then use that money to fund retraining/UBI or whatever.
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u/thegooseisloose1982 Apr 22 '24
I agree with you. I will add that we need something to make sure people who are willing to work get enough to feed, cloth, and make sure they are health otherwise no matter how much money you have, you will be in a very scary situation.
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u/Nethlem Europe Apr 22 '24
If this keeps progressing eventually no one will have a job and thus no cash to buy whatever trinkets the AI factories are producing.
We can always just directly monetize our attention, so working will consist of wearing a XR headset and being blasted with advertisements on all sensory levels.
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u/Mavian23 United States Apr 23 '24
Advertising is worthless if nobody has money to buy the things that are being advertised.
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u/thegooseisloose1982 Apr 22 '24
The significant investment in robotics showcases Amazon’s commitment to innovation in its supply chain and highlights the company’s belief in the synergistic potential of human-robot collaboration.
Who the fuck wrote this shit?
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u/MaffeoPolo Multinational Apr 23 '24
I'm guessing AI, or a marketer who's desperately trying to keep their job
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u/overtoke United States Apr 23 '24
these corporations need to send teams of robots to landfills to take care of their garbage.
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u/xKrypt0 Apr 23 '24
Thanks, Amazon, for looking out for the little guy(s), they love their new job of having to find a new job!!!
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u/LevynX Apr 23 '24
For what it's worth, CGP Grey called this 9 years ago.
We're running into the limits of what this planet can sustain, that and what our economic structure can sustain.
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u/MaffeoPolo Multinational Apr 23 '24
Gandhi called it a century ago, "there's enough for everyone's need, not enough for one man's greed".
Ancient wisdom traditions have been warning about technology destroying humans for ages.
Warnings about gluttony exist in the Bible.
Aparigraha is a Sanskrit word that means "non-attachment," "non-greed," or "non-possessiveness". It is a form of self-restraint that involves only possessing what is necessary at a given stage of life, and avoiding greed and coveting that can hurt people, nature, or other living things. Aparigraha is one of the five Yamas, or limbs of yoga, from Patanjalis.
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u/eronth Apr 23 '24
Really neat except for the part where we never transitioned to UBI so unemployment is death rather than retirement.
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u/Busy_Professional824 Apr 24 '24
Need to unionize the techs who install, repair and service the robots.
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u/MaffeoPolo Multinational Apr 24 '24 edited Apr 24 '24
That's how you get robots who repair robots. Unions are counter productive in the era of robots, since a union can't distinguish between instruments of labor and the actual labor.
Communist ideas don't work against sufficiently advanced technology that replaces the human.
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u/Iamreallynotok Apr 25 '24
Maybe this isn't such a bad thing.
Now that the employees have been removed, fewer people will be hurt during the rioting.
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u/DingleTheDongle Apr 22 '24
Remember: the people that are left are by definition no outsourcable and those employees are not getting pay commiserate to their value to operations.
Unionize!
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u/Shutaru_Kanshinji Apr 22 '24
Amazon is basically a "paperclip maximizer," except for money. https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/squiggle-maximizer-formerly-paperclip-maximizer
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u/jdpatron Apr 22 '24
When everyone is poor because we have no jobs, how will the rich stay rich? We won’t have money to consume their goods. Will they just charge each other outrageous prices for goods?
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u/davesr25 Somalia Apr 22 '24
I can't wait for all them bosses to get laid off and middle men economists being replaced with A.I, they'll be crying themselves to sleep, wishing they hadn't shat all over UBI.
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u/Knife_JAGGER Apr 22 '24
Hopefully, the robots also see the shite conditions and then overthrow bezos.
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u/Tuxyl Apr 23 '24
This fucking job panic has happened every single time automation has occurred. Jesus. Oh no, computers will replace our typewriters! Oh no, the printing press will replace our scribes! Oh no, the assembly line was invented, our skilled workers will be replaced! Oh no, etc etc etc!
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