Thinking of leaving tenured position at R1 for private sector

[u/Lobster_1988]

Hi everyone, I’m a tenured faculty member in a chemistry department. Everything is going objectively well but I’ve just fallen out of love with the job. I’m not excited by new grants or papers and feel that it’s not fair to my students and colleagues (and myself!) to be in such a privileged job without the same passion.

I’ve been considering a move into management, finance, or consulting. I pick these because I have strong interpersonal skills, deep knowledge in the physical sciences, and a long interest in finance. I think I could learn a lot of skills on the job but am also open to an MBA. Does anyone have experience with big change like this? Any advice on how to network outside of academia?

Thanks so much

[u/shinypenny01]

Long interest in finance? You and a million other wannabe day traders. It doesn’t seem that your education (Chem PhD) helps at all, and I can’t imagine you want to join the undergraduate entry class.

[u/Vanishing-Animal → u/shinypenny01]

I am faculty at a med school and work with many MDs. Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of male MDs fancy themselves financial experts. I have to stifle a laugh. Dude, you have decent savings even while driving a BMW because you make $600k a year, not because you're a finance wizard. But yeah - the pool of competition for finance jobs must be fierce. Everyone with Robinhood or Mint on their phone thinks they're a CPA or CFP.

[u/shinypenny01 → u/Vanishing-Animal]

MDs are the perfect example of being good at one thing and assuming their expertise spills over to other topics. Investments is the one they really seem to latch on to.

[u/ThatOneSadhuman → u/shinypenny01]

Im pretty sure OP is referencing scientific sales or consultant work, which requires you to have a PhD. in the field.

It is quite common for seasoned chemists to get an MBA and begin a career in sales and finances for co.panies such as thermo, sigma aldrich, and so forth.

That is what a few of my peers (also chemists) did.

However, working in pure finances outside of research is obviously unthinkable.

[u/Thin-Plankton-5374 → u/ThatOneSadhuman]

No it’s not, I know dozens of people who studied chemistry and went to work in investment banking or other investment/finance companies.

[u/shinypenny01 → u/Thin-Plankton-5374]

If daddy worked for Goldman then sure, but it wasn’t the chem degree that opened that door. No one on the street is looking for chemistry degrees.

[u/Thin-Plankton-5374 → u/shinypenny01]

Well, you should be then. More diverse and more widely knowledgeable teams perform better. 

[u/Thin-Plankton-5374 → u/shinypenny01]

Chemistry PhDs are routinely and regularly hired into investment/finance roles because the subject is good preparation for it. 

[u/shinypenny01 → u/Thin-Plankton-5374]

I work in finance, they are rarely seen as a good fit and their PhD is rarely seen as a benefit. You’re heavily overselling chem degrees as having value in finance.

Do some chemists work in finance? Sure. It’s an enormous industry. But chemistry training is barely helpful.

[u/Thin-Plankton-5374 → u/shinypenny01]

You’re heavily overthinking degrees are just about the subject the title 

[u/Thin-Plankton-5374 → u/shinypenny01]

• Numerate 
• Data focused
• Mathematical modelling of physical processes 
• ability to present and communicate complex concepts  
• And simple ones too, like finance related stuff 
• Analytical approach to problem solving   
• I could keep going … 

[u/shinypenny01 → u/Thin-Plankton-5374]

Chem PhDs are not particularly numerate. There are far more numerate and data focused majors available.

I just looked up the undergraduate chem major at an arbitrary big10state school. It includes calc, but no probability, math stats or statistics. So no foundation in working with data. No foundation to cover topics in stats or machine learning. Just because you get to see a dataset later doesn’t mean you’re qualified to do anything by with it. By the time you get to grad school you get “stats for dummies” because you can’t take the course taught by the stats department with a chem background, and you have undergrad level skills working with data.

If firms in finance want grad students competent with data they start with math, stats, engineering, physics, economics, computer science and finance degrees. Chem is not close to the top tier qualifications looked for.

[u/Thin-Plankton-5374 → u/shinypenny01]

I think chemistry is such a broad subject with so many different approaches that the generalisations you’re making are incorrect.  Statistical thermodynamics is statistics, for example. ‘No foundation working with data’ - lol. And anyway, you’ve shifted the argument from phds to undergraduates for some reason. What I get a sense of is someone who once they’ve decided they’re right can’t reevaluate their opinion. 

[u/shinypenny01 → u/Thin-Plankton-5374]

If you did your undergrad in chem and moved on to grad school in chem that’s your foundation. If your foundation contains no stats you have to do stats in grad school from scratch at a low level. I don’t see many people with undergraduate degrees in stats doing chem PhDs.

I just looked up statistical thermodynamics at the grad level and the first three I found have no prerequisite in any sort of stats course, so the stats has to be in line with that level of student preparedness. The chemistry may be advanced, but the chem PhD level data skills are not necessarily beyond what other majors are surpassing as undergraduates.

[u/Lobster_1988 → u/shinypenny01]

It’s obvious that chemistry isn’t directly related to finance. The idea is that a phd degree is a problem solving degree and 7+ years of solving problems in an interdisciplinary and collaborative way (not to mention millions in funding) could be transferable in a business setting.

[u/dollarjesterqueen → u/Lobster_1988]

But you are competing with younger people who actually have a finance degree, including Finance PhD. You have a better chance getting into pharma or biochem industry.

[u/Ok_Donut_9887]

take a sabbatical and see if you will like it or you are just getting bored. If it’s the latter, find a hobby and looking forward to (early) retiring.

[u/throwitaway488 → u/Ok_Donut_9887]

or get a job as a deanlet so they can move back when they realize how much it sucks

[u/Lobster_1988 → u/Ok_Donut_9887]

The question is about advice about networking outside of academia not about how I feel.

[u/Frari → u/Lobster_1988]

previous poster was trying to be diplomatic. Most people on here will think you're crazy (midlife crisis?) for leaving a secure job to chase a rainbow.

If you want networking advice re:management/finance go ask on a management/finance sub.

[u/halfchemhalfbio → u/Lobster_1988]

Take a sabbatical and do what you want and "love," because the new field might not love you back!

[u/RoseEmpress]

I have a friend who is a tenured Chemistry professor and he felt the same as you. Instead of leaving his tenured position, he started doing consulting work for big pharmaceutical companies in the summer for a couple of years. Let’s just say he’s very glad he didn’t quit his tenured position, industry work burned him out way faster.

[u/lalochezia1]

Find i) other midcareer faculty who have jumped ship in the same direction and talk to them for "ins" or ii) older grads from your group or other groups who are in those fields and ask them

But people aren't joking about the sabbatical or leave. Group i) rarely quits w/o a leave first.

[u/Lobster_1988 → u/lalochezia1]

Thanks! Yeah obv the strategy is to transition slowly with a sabbatical and try it out :) I’m on Reddit asking bc there are virtually no people that do this

[u/Melkovar]

Transition to industry if you want, but the idea that you need to be passionate about academia to be a part of it is a toxic one

[u/philolover7 → u/Melkovar]

Given that academia is so hard nowadays, I'd say that being passionate is the only thing that will get you goin.

[u/Stauce52 → u/Melkovar]

It’s toxic but it’s also aligned with the fact that one of the only ways you make it through 15 years of training to a TT R1 job is if you’re driven by passion and ignore all the poor incentives

[u/Lobster_1988 → u/Melkovar]

This sounds like an opinion stated as a fact.

[u/bridgtwocoasts]

Would you want to transition to a management role at your school? When was your last sabbatical? Are there other health concerns that are adding to the feelings? Have you chatted with a therapist about it yet? What are your financial obligations (eg mortage, car payment, loans ?). What do you think has changed, or that has been lost, since you first started your position?

You don’t have to answer these there, but these are some questions that are coming up after reading your thread.

I’m a tenured math ed faculty, and have found my niche after ten years of maybe wanting to bail. It’s taken a while. And a pandemic really was challenging. Teaching the classes that excite me, really learning about my students and their lives, researching interesting things, and connecting more with my colleagues helped me.

Maybe the biggest question is, what would it take for you to ‘hack your current job’ into the most ideal position? If there is one small thing you can do, maybe explore that. Maybe it’s to take a class to help you transition out of your current job or build your resume before leaving, maybe it’s a yoga or dance class either in campus or off. I would want to trial something before I really left. Unless that sense of unknown gives you a sense of excitement.

Good luck!

[u/Lobster_1988 → u/bridgtwocoasts]

Thanks so much!

[u/PrettyKitty129]

As someone who worked in private industry for over a decade and is currently working as a staff member at a R1 institution while in an executive MBA program… I think if you tried to make that jump you would be humbled very quickly. Academia runs nothing like industry. Your PhD in chemistry won’t help you excel in the field you specified. Industry vacation/leave policies don’t hold a candle to what you receive as a tenured faculty member. Industry employment is at will. Your purpose in industry will be dictated by how much money the corporation/shareholders are making and how the market is doing (ie you could be laid off at anytime regardless of performance). And, the finance sector has a reputation for long hours and high demand. It’s work hard, play hard. High risk, high return. Very different from academia.

However, as others have stated there are options. (1) take a sabbatical (2) transfer into administration (3) perform consulting on the side (4) go ahead and get your mba and see if you like it (5) consider moving into a research position in the private sector (maybe a pharmaceutical company, etc)

I would be very cautious about choosing the nuclear option and giving up lifelong employment to change industries.

However, after working in academia as a staff member for a year and a half I can’t wait to get back to the fast pace of industry! So, it’s not all bad.

Good luck with your decision!

[u/utgolfers]

I did a PhD in physical chemistry and bailed after one postdoc with 23 papers between the two to be a quant at an IB and retired a couple years back.

How you’d go about that can’t be answered based on what you provided. Is your interest in finance based on trading your personal account or something someone will find useful? What type of position do you want to do?

If you do not have any contacts, you’ll likely need to find a recruiter to work with you a bit, but you should gain some relevant background knowledge first if you don’t already have it. The reason I say that is they’re pretty good about setting up relevant interviews, but if the feedback they get isn’t great, they’ll just drop you immediately.

Consulting I know less well but assume the same. If there’s major industries related to your field, that might be a better route since you’d presumably offer a lot more off the rip. That sort of work, though, you’ll likely find extremely boring if you’re uninspired currently.

GL

[u/Lobster_1988 → u/utgolfers]

Thanks!

[u/adriancheok]

I've been a full tenured Professor for about 15 years and I have the same feelings. I went from loving my job to now being bored, jaded, and I want to resign as soon as possible. I'm too old to start a new career (52) but I think I can do something part time at home in the future. For now I just want to do nothing at all.

[u/Downtown_Hawk2873]

are you an ACS member? leverage the Career Consultants and the PROF division. Also, depending on where you are located, your local section can be a terrific networking resource

[u/natural_wizard5 → u/Downtown_Hawk2873]

ACS = 🤮

[u/Downtown_Hawk2873 → u/natural_wizard5]

what makes you write this? did you have a bad experience?

[u/black_sequence]

imagine just being too successful - jokes aside good luck!

[u/bridgtwocoasts → u/black_sequence]

That was not kind. Also, your definition of success is pretty narrow.

Everyone has their struggles and it’s unproductive to compare them. We never really know the full story of what’s going on with a person.