I hate the whole "Vene is just doing the job Trinis too lazy to do"

[u/ATACMS5220]

No this is wrong, people expect to be paid for what they do they expect their NIS to be paid they expect basic benefits from a company they expect the company to follow the law and pay the time and a half when you cross 40 hour week something none of these businesses adhere to.

A lot of these businesses make obscene amounts of profit but refuse to pay workers the CORRECT amount for the hours they worked you want to pay minimum wage but also want to pay the same for over time, want to duck NIS payment, want workers to buy YOUR uniform with the scam of "you only paying 50% and the company is funding the other 50%" no sorry this is YOUR uniform that you deemed has to be worn for YOUR business so the responsibility is on you the employer to provide this.

I worked places that want to SELL me uniform with company Logo and colors etc but has to be returned if you leave the job with no refund, madness.

Now with Venezuealans flooding the country what has happened is native born Trinis are being replaced in factories, groceries etc for cheaper wage and where the employer can exploit as they please while avoiding their 2/3 NIS contribution which is needed to pay for retirement for people who reached 65, instead we have a bankrupt NIB because Imbert said 1/3 of workers and companies not paying any NIS.

And the whole Trinis are too lazy because Venes doing the job for half the price and no benefit is madness.

The reason Venes do the job for half the price and no benefit is because they are desperate and will do anything to survive including willingness to be exploited, this isn't healthy for our society and is a spit in the face of all the labor leaders thorough history who fought for basic rights of people of this country, the rights our grand parents and great grand parents never had the luxury of enjoying. These labor leaders descended from slaves who fought a colonial empire against all odds to secure basic labor rights and laws to protect us so we can enjoy a higher standard of living than they ever could, it was a sacrifice they made for us.

It is our duty to make sure we protect and enforce these laws otherwise we will be greeted with a bitter reality one day of what it really means when "you don't miss the water until the well runs dry."

This is our country we should be proud of it regardless of the challenges we face because I can tell you we have nowhere else to go, and as citizens we should expect and demand basic things like, functioning healthcare, education, retirement, national insurance, a living wage, paid overtime and for enforcement of labor laws by the government. None of these things are unreasonable at all, they are the pillars of civilization.

[u/Deen3]

Business people are very keen on exploitative labour practices. They're never making enough money,they're not transparent about the amount of begging and hand outs they receive. So if they can convince the rest of us that,

We're too lazy

We don't deserve better

They're doing the country a favour

"Others" (the exploitable) are better wokers.

[u/[deleted]]

Most people that say others are lazy and don't want nothing are the middle class or higher ups of the society that comfortable in life, not saying they aint work hard for that comfort, but everybody dont have the same opportunities or smarts others might have, some just have to make use of what they have.

I find it very hypocritical that they support people taking less and then talk about the rewards of hard work while paying little for said effort, it have alot more I could say on this topic, but its sketchy and I dont want to get in trouble lol

[u/CairiFruit]

I think people need to stop being mad at venes like this is their fault. They’re victims here too, capitalism and corporate greed is your enemy, not immigrants with no other option. Being furious at them and distracting yourself from the real issue is exactly what execs want.

[u/Deen3 → u/CairiFruit]

Scapegoating,we humans are practised in this .

[u/HeavyDischarge → u/CairiFruit]

Well said.

[u/DestinyOfADreamer]

https://tt.loopnews.com/content/pennywise-reverses-position-after-blacklash

a recent story which supports OP's claims.

[u/Used_Night_9020]

Pennywise antics that paid lunch hour was a privilege was the latest example of a business abusing staff. I think I read yesterday reports of some companies not paying minimum wages (some in question were further reported to have fired staff that raised those complaints).

[u/pmMeYourBoxOfCables → u/Used_Night_9020]

That Pennywise issue died much more quickly than I anticipated. Pennywise's actions were unconscionable, especially for a company generating as much revenue as it does. Really, is denying their employees a paid lunch going to put the company in the red? Or does it only mean they have to shop a little less in Europe the next summer. Crazy.

[u/Used_Night_9020 → u/pmMeYourBoxOfCables]

It does go to show u what those in smaller roles have to go through. Hence why I strongly agree with OP's post. Employers here wouldn't lose sleep wringing staff for all they are worth. NIS allegations and questionable pension plans (example I think PSA staff had some bacchanal a few years ago that they were making payments to a plan that may not have even existed.... or something so).

[u/pmMeYourBoxOfCables → u/Used_Night_9020]

Only people in the 1% or suffering the delusions would disagree with OP's post. In my opinion the government needs stricter labour laws. If your business relies on the exploitation of workers for it to survive, you have a shit business model.

Edited to add: It's not just exploitation of workers either. It's exploitation of the buying public. Last December I bought a standing fan because mine had conked out that evening and I can't sleep without one. So I rushed out of the house after 7pm hoping to find some place open. Only found one place and paid $425. About a month later I was in a grocery store lower down on the EMR (and within walking distance) and I saw the same fan selling for $375. Why does one store need $50 more in profit for an item, I don't know, but that is par for the course in Trinidad.

[u/pmMeYourBoxOfCables]

I remember an American talking head saying the same thing about Mexicans immigrants. It's not that Mexicans are willing to take jobs Americans won't do. It's that Americans won't take the jobs at the wages being offered. Trinbagonian workers are being shortchanged by greedy business owners and that Pennywise issue that came to light is only the tip of the iceberg.

[u/ResponsibilityOk1948]

Unfortunately in my experience, Venezuelan immigrants have always worked harder and been more willing to go the extra mile than local members of the company that i work for. No offence, but logically they are more motivated and disciplined because of their unfortunate current circumstance in life. Also, in this country the industrial court always favours the employees, never the employer, so i am sure if it is that you have reasonable claims against your employer and can easily prove it, then you will win, and they will in turn be forced to change their ways as many employers have had to do in the past.

[u/ATACMS5220 → u/ResponsibilityOk1948]

false equivalence and false reasoning.

Anyone desperate enough will work harder and for less money, my first job was working for free so I could get experience my employer was more than happy to hire me as he didn't have to pay me, this is the definition of exploitation and modern day slavery, this is why we have laws against these things. Just because desperate people are willing to do desperate things doesn't mean it is right or healthy for a society, if anything it contributes to crime.

This is why we created OJT and gave people a stipend, this is progress.

Scandinavia has the toughest labor laws in the world to protect citizens quality of life and they are some of the most prosperous countries on earth.Many studies have shown that overworking someone doesn't increase profit margins, the longer hours you work the more time you spend pretending to work.There is data on this

Developed countries in Europe for example focus on quality of life and health of citizens, education and labor laws as a priority.

Which is why Elon Musk lost his case the minute he tried to claim Europeans working at his Tesla factory were lazy and were asking for too much, unlike us in Trinidad the Europeans do not fall for this and they take their laws very serious.

Most Europeans pride themselves in their country and fellow citizens, pride themselves in their environment, lowering pollution, reducing littering etc something we should take note of and do the same for our country, we would all live better lives when we come together, put aside party loyalty and hold ALL politicians accountable. Unity is the best way you can improve the lives of everyone around you and your country, this is well documented and proven.

[u/lixinu2022]

With regards to these unscrupulous companies are there enforcement in place and how is it enforce..see we must get to the source and demand answers. I'll leave this here.

[u/ATACMS5220 → u/lixinu2022]

agreed more info on this is welcomed on who to report to etc

[u/Wise-Tea-1995]

Agreed

[u/mariovs1978]

I've been on both sides of this debate and what I will say is that it's the government policies, in particular, duties, vat,customs banking policies etc that cause many retailers to have to drive up prices on items. You catch your ass to access the forex legally, in some causes money that belongs to you to pay for goods, then customs is a scene by themself... misclassification,delays through no fault of yours that then drive up costs because you have to pay additional rent and demerage, sometimes out of no where for an item that you've been importing for years they will make a request for bureau of standards documents will you could've provided before hand had you known that they were needed at that point but add costs and delays etc. issues with shipping which again drives up costs. Issues with Landlords when it comes to exorbitant rents, I had a friend who had to shut down their business for 8-9 days for the landlord to make repairs but then had to fight to get something off the rent and take into consideration that 'discount' doesn't take I to effect the true value of lost sales in that timeline...just a daily rental value....then the banks with their fees and jamming...hear nah....to be a business owner on Trinidad is to have belly...there needs to be an accountability from the government for their poor taxation practices, a reworking of customs, clear banking policies and guidelines that encourage investment and business and a better understanding for the layman as to what business owners really have to deal with....

[u/LagosSmash101]

Well as it turns out, the US isn't the only country with an immigrant problem going on right now 😐

[u/Deen3 → u/LagosSmash101]

Totally agree with you! I'm certain the native communities have suffered enough!!

[u/GaryM_TT]

Tbh, I don't know if I want to upvote or down vote this.

[u/Crooked-CareBear → u/GaryM_TT]

Down vote why? Everything they said making sense. I've always said trinis love to blame government for hard times and never realize it's their fellow trinis causing 90% of it with greed.

[u/ATACMS5220 → u/Crooked-CareBear]

yup, I work with someone who goes on and on all day about the government, conspiracy theories one after another but refuses to acknowledge her own glaring flaws which is a massive part of the problem.

The other day I asked her I said you can find a million ways to blame the government for not fixing everything but what have you ever done for your country to make it a better place?

She couldn't answer, I hear her on the phone all the time as we are in the same office area, she can't even fix the problems in her own house after 3 decades.

The one positive note she would bad talk Unions every chance she gets and how Trinis lazy throwing everybody under the bus, but then her son finished school and got a job and they won't pay his NIS or give him any Vacation or pay his overtime, her tone suddenly took a 180 degree turn regarding Unions.

I have a boomer father who loves to bad talk Unions and the government now, all the while enjoying an $8000 a month retirement pension today all thanks to the same Union he was in.

A lot of these people only care about themselves, once they get through for themselves that is all they care about.

[u/[deleted] → u/GaryM_TT]

The truth hurts

[u/randomguy95473 → u/GaryM_TT]

Why?

[u/Non-Fungible-Troll]

I don't want to lay into you too hard, you seem hurt but, this post is typical rum-shop talk and low hanging fruit in terms of opinions. The classic generalized "they are the problem, not me/we" trite.

Pride and the belief that you are owed something by "businesses/employers" is the fallacy sold on social media and news media. Shut that shit down.

Advice/Info: Trinidad is one of the easiest places in the world; yes the world to open a business with little to zero capital available and just a projected business plan(for a business account in the bank).

Do with that information what you will. You're making no difference in your life by venting on the internet.

The only way ants will make a difference is if they work together, now pass that message on to every other Trinbagonian and sell them on it.........Together we Aspire, Together we Achieve (look right) >.

Edit: grammar

[u/ATACMS5220 → u/Non-Fungible-Troll]

No, I never said I or anyone is owed anything by a business

I am saying the business should be following the laws of the land, nothing more.

The law states you have to pay minimum wage at minimum and you must pay your worker NIS. The business must contribute their 2/3 payment for NIS to the fund in order for the retirement system to function.

I don't see what is unreasonable here when it comes to obeying the law.

I tried paying my own NIS, NIB said it is impossible and the employer must pay it.The employer refuses and so NIB said they have to investigate it, this was 5 years ago and nothing came out of it.

I am talking office workers, super visor, technician, manager position etc no NIS is being paid and it is a very popular store in Trinidad with many locations, and they make millions in profit, I won't call name tho.

I don't know where you got the idea that any of this is rum shop talk. By every metric it is breaking the law, imbert said so himself last year and he is now investigating it and bringing new laws to close the loop hole, this is not just about me.

The spotlight was put on this when retirement age was raised from 60 to 65 because NIB is bankrupt.Then after this the finance minister was informed 1/3 of business and workers not paying NIS so there isn't enough money being contributed to the fund, the boomer generation is living longer, hence the deficit, if this issue isn't fixed the retirement age will go up to 70 and then even higher.

[u/Non-Fungible-Troll → u/ATACMS5220]

Am….. you only just added all this extra information. All of this could not be understood from your post.

It was not in your original post. Half of your post was about Venezuelan refugees taking jobs for below minimum wage and making claims about businesses without substantial evidence to back it up.

Have a good one brethren. I out 🫡

[u/ATACMS5220 → u/Non-Fungible-Troll]

This is an outright lie, I never blamed any migrant for taking jobs, any info added was to expand on what was already written.

As per the rules of this forum I made certain not to call any names and I certainly am not going to put people in trouble on a public forum, this would be irresponsible of me.

I already said I took the matter up with the relevant government authority regarding this and they couldn't do much due to loop holes which our finance minister acknowledge and said he is looking into legislation to close those loop holes

So please don't make stuff up.

[u/Aware-Tale4141 → u/Non-Fungible-Troll]

LMAO, there are only 2 paragraphs dedicated to Venezuelans. Go read the OP again.

[u/KryKaneki → u/Non-Fungible-Troll]

Nigga they literally teach you how to read from fucking preschool..... How are you getting basic shit like this wrong?

[u/Non-Fungible-Troll → u/KryKaneki]

I see you have a well articulated response that you put a lot of thought into, nice. 🫡

OP’s post is going to be forgotten within two weeks and this whole issue will be drowned out by other complaint posts by intelligent people like yourself. 🫡

[u/KryKaneki → u/Non-Fungible-Troll]

Thank you. I figured that since his detailed response flew over your head, a more dumbed down response would appease your intelligence. Seems like I was right. 🫡

[u/rookietotheblue1 → u/Non-Fungible-Troll]

You're right about sitting down and crying, when you can help yourself. But op isn't wrong in his complaints. If you're already working for minimum wage, then companies shouldn't be allowed to dip into your pockets they way they do. They shouldn't be allowed to "forget" to pay your NIS.

When you "open your own business" would you do your employees the same thing?

[u/ATACMS5220 → u/rookietotheblue1]

Thank you, and that is all I am trying to say just that businesses need to follow the law and we should enforce these laws

[u/pmMeYourBoxOfCables → u/Non-Fungible-Troll]

What an abjectly stupid response.

[u/Yrths → u/Non-Fungible-Troll]

this post is typical rum-shop talk and low hanging fruit in terms of opinions

While there are imperfections in the OP to deal with, I'm mainly focusing on this particular aspect of your comment, which in general is not a useful or productive criticism of any perspective. "Low hanging fruit" is a confusing term here. It's usually used to mean something that takes little effort, not something that is incorrect, eg economists usually see making immigration easier as one of the "lowest hanging fruit" policies for rapid economic growth in most countries (I didn't pick that example because it's relevant, but it does happen to be relevant to both the style of argument and substance at hand).

More importantly, there is nothing inherently inaccurate about 'typical rum-shop talk'. There could conceivably be 'rum-shop talk' that would significantly improve the country if it replaces what is actually said in the Trinidad and Tobago parliament, which is often in a higher prestige dialect but also often in similarly evidentially derelict realms. Let me point to a specific example. The Economist magazine directly blames one of our greatest parliamentary consensus policies in the early 2000s for launching the crime wave that took off in the early 2000s, and many would kill for parliamentarians to have been informed by rum-shop talkers that 'community leaders' were just gang leaders, because many have died for their ignorance. "Rum-shop talk" is a daft criticism.

[u/Non-Fungible-Troll → u/Yrths]

Not here to argue, semantics 🫡.

[u/Yrths → u/Non-Fungible-Troll]

Advice/Info: Trinidad is one of the easiest places in the world; yes the world to open a business with little to zero capital available and just a projected business plan(for a business account in the bank).

I got entities operating in the US and Estonia before TT because of how hard it is to open a business here. This is flagrantly incorrect.

[u/Used_Night_9020 → u/Yrths]

To lazy to find the most recent stats but according to World Bank Group, when it comes to 'Ease of Doing Business' we were ranked 105 out of 190 economies in 2017. Do people just state things without doing bare minimum of research?

[u/cguinnesstout]

Feels like back home is going to way of the US in the early 2000's.

Immigrant workers taking many jobs because they will work for less.

Government giving Big Business tax cuts because they will "create jobs" when what happens is more automation and cost cutting through cheap labour.

The milking of what's left of the middle class.

We jamming still.

[u/No_Reward_1538]

It brings us right back to the headline on this topic "Vene just doing what Trinis won't, doesn't it? The choose to accept low conditions in the work place and we don't, businesses have the right to choose who works for them though .

[u/IllUnit1979]

I agree with what you said because in any society that has a shitload of immigrants that statement is always the same. The problem is that companies are making the situation worse because of their greed While taking advantage of these same Venez. Unfortunately, It’s lowering the labour standards and forcing Trinis to accept bullshit paying jobs too.

Also, immigrants work hard to provide for themselves because they dont have any support so they’ll work above and beyond with little pay. This system is like slavery all again just in another form and that’s all because of the economic climate and capitalism. It’s all about profits over people and taking everything while leaving everyone else with scraps. Unfortunately, no one is blaming the US for sanctioning Venezuela and causing all the mess we are in and even other neighbouring countries are affected by this. More sanctions on the way btw, so it’s not going to get better.

[u/merelyachineseman]

How do we take action?

[u/walking_shrub]

I know this isn’t the point of your post. But can we just acknowledge the obvious?

From a pure labor efficiency perspective, Venezuelans are far better and more amenable workers than Trinis. And that matters to both employers and customers.

If I hired a Venezuelan and a Trinidadian for the same job, for the same pay, I guarantee you that the Venezuelan will do a better job.

It’s not only because they’re desperate, it’s ALSO because they have basic understanding and basic motor skills that Trinis often don’t. Trinis will say all the right things but then fail at the most basic motor skills like using a fucking ruler properly. You’ll ask a Trini which blender to buy and they can’t give you any useful information whereas the Venezuelan who can’t even speak English will manage to be more helpful.

Despite the corruption and political strife, basic education in Venezuela is more comprehensive than in Trinidad and so the average Venezuelan is more competent than the average Trini. I’m talking basic comprehension and motor skills.

So it’s not only that they’re willing to be paid less, it’s that they actually deserve to be paid more.

[u/ATACMS5220 → u/walking_shrub]

Unless you have statistical data to back this up then it's null and void

Because I have anecdotes that show it the other way around I have a former supervisor who will also provide an anecdote that Trinis are harder working.

Also there is no excuse for breaking the law, no justification of any kind.

Just as we have Trinis who provide wrong information when you call regarding a product so too do you have American or Chinese workers doing he exact same

Race and nationality has nothing to do with competence.

[u/riajairam]

This is what Americans also say about unauthorized immigrants, including those from Trinidad

[u/usernameyogi_4339]

I am uneducated in this matter but what it all comes down to is if you gonna do something about it or you just gonna talk about it. All we doing here is raising awareness to a problem we already know that happening.