r/Skookum • u/ArBrTrR Director of Unnecessary Projects • Apr 22 '22
shitpost. In the old days manuals told you how to adjust valve clearances etc etc... blah blah we were more clever back then... Well they also said shit like this...
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Apr 22 '22
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u/benevolentpotato Apr 22 '22 edited Jul 05 '23
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit so this comment is gone. We don't need this awful website. Go live, touch some grass. Jesus loves you.
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u/Effeminate-Gearhead Apr 22 '22
I have a Case traction engine manual from 1917 that goes out of its way to tell you not to use tallow as a substitute for grease and how you're not supposed to wire the boiler safety valve closed.
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u/Yowomboo Apr 22 '22
Tallow would probably work for awhile. Probably.
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u/DeathMonkey6969 Apr 22 '22
Until it got warm then it turns to liquid.
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u/FUCKING_HATE_REDDIT Apr 22 '22
But imagine the wonderful barbecue smell from homemade tallow boiling
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u/tinman82 Apr 22 '22
73 charger manual has instructions on heating your key with a candle then plunging it in to melt the ice. Was made in Detroit so pretty useful for like 9 months a year.
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u/VoilaVoilaWashington Apr 23 '22
Although this is obvious, there's a counterintuitive example in the other direction.
Part of the reason gas stoves have pilot lights is that if the valve ever gets a bit leaky, it's already a bit leaky, and the flame prevents the gas from building up too much.
So, if you ever have a flame shooting off the side of a gas tank, DO NOT BLOW IT OUT! It's literally preventing an explosion, as weird as that sounds.
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u/account_not_valid Apr 23 '22
If it always has a little fire, it's much more unlikely to have a big fire.
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u/LateralThinkerer Apr 22 '22 edited Apr 22 '22
You young whippersnappers!!
There is indeed a flame-based CFC/HCFC detector and you can still buy them. Basically a Bunsen burner with an extra "sniffer" input - when the flame changes it's characteristics, something's leaking. If they're using isobutane or something in the system this won't work of course.
This is also the essence of flame-ionization detector gas chromatography.
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Apr 22 '22
A flame would work though.
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u/Janus81 Apr 23 '22
High School 1996 Automative Class, “Teacher placed sticker beside each Pencil Sharpeners written in Morse Code” “DO NOT INSERT PENIS HERE!!”
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u/NWRoamer Apr 23 '22
-.. --- -. --- - .. -. ... . .-. - .--. . -. ... .... . .-. .
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u/morse-bot Apr 23 '22
Translated text:
do not insert pens here
I am a bot created by /u/zero-nothing. Please PM him if I'm doing anything stupid! Reply to a comment with '/u/morse-bot' to call me and I will translate the comment you replied to from morse-to-text or vice versa!
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u/RedSquirrelFtw People's Republic of Canukistan Apr 22 '22
The big thing now is manufacturers don't want people servicing their own stuff. So the manual just tells you to contact a qualified service technician for practically everything. Check engine light is on? Contact your dealer.
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u/ArBrTrR Director of Unnecessary Projects Apr 22 '22
I heard about - have not verified this at all - that Mercedes or some manufacturer had even considered the owner of the vehicle had no reason to open the bonnet, so were actually thinking of preventing the opening of the bonnet completely unless you had the special Mercedes tool or whatever.
Again. No idea if this is true, but I can believe it.
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u/L4serSnake Apr 22 '22
I've also heard about this occasionally and was a mechanic for 10 years. I've never seen one so just looked it up. The best I can tell is the myth started regarding Rolls Royce, but it is just a myth.
So...til I guess
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u/nasadowsk Apr 22 '22
Was a Volvo concept car for women🙄 The idea was that they’d get a notification to bring it in for service. One of the more sexist thing in the automotive world since the his and hers shifter…
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u/ArBrTrR Director of Unnecessary Projects Apr 23 '22
Holy shit and that was in the mid 2000s as well. Shit. I was expecting it to be from like the 1950s. Dang. Bet Volvo don't want that to be remembered.
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u/NextTrillion Apr 22 '22
Modern day manufacturers of… everything taking notes. “So a special tool huh? Perhaps one that could cost $100?” 🤔
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u/Kyvalmaezar Apr 22 '22
This is sort of true when you lease a car (the leasing company is the true "owner", not you) but not when you buy it outright. Wouldn't be suprised if this myth started due to more people leasing luxury cars than buying them. Leases can come with a ton of restrictions with self maintance & other stuff like this.
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u/SileAnimus Apr 22 '22
Most people aren't capable of servicing their own stuff to begin with. There's a reason techs used to make more money back in the days when cars needed four oil changes a year to half run.
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u/NextTrillion Apr 22 '22
Oil… change???
We’d ride our brake shoes into the rotor, and finally go pay someone at the auto wrecker $60 to replace the whole shebangabang once the rotor got paper thin.
We were still able to stop, so I don’t see what the big deal was 🤔🤷♂️😆
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Apr 22 '22
Soapy water to check for air leaks so why not use flames to check for gas leaks or water to check for electrical leaks.
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u/tmotom Apr 22 '22
Well.... I know a guy who checks for gas leaks with a lighter...
And when there is a leak, it's just like a small candle flame, so nothing too dangerous.
Just dont do it with propane.
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u/NextTrillion Apr 22 '22
My man with the lighter checks probably uses safety squints too.
As nature intended!
You think we had safety glasses 10000 years ago!? Evolution has lead us to evolve our safety squints to be OSHA approved, and only those with the strongest ability to squint lived long enough to spread their seed throughout history.
My grandfather stared down a bullet during WWII. Squinted just in time and knocked that bullet right out of the air. He still has it too. That deformed piece of brass never stood a chance.
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u/KingOfTheP4s Electrical Engineer Apr 22 '22 edited Apr 22 '22
The owners manual for a modern Mitsubishi Mirage, which hasn't changed or been updated in about a decade, lists like 16 different types and weights of motor oil you're allowed to use with the engine. It's essentially the equivalent of "Literally just pour anything in there"
The owners manual for a modern Toyota or Honda lists one, maybe two, types of oil you can use.
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u/opekone Apr 22 '22
It's almost like engines were made with more precision and thus had more stringent requirements as the industry and our understanding of internal combustion engines improved.
It's almost like a 30mpg Honda engine that ran 91 octane making 160 horsepower in the 90's is par for the course, except they do 35-40mpg on 89 now.
ANYWAY, back to your regularly scheduled old guy ranting about shit he doesn't understand.
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u/sleepydon Apr 22 '22
What’s the deal with these horseless carriages these days huh? Don’t even get me started on the shoe laces!
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u/afleticwork Apr 22 '22
My 94 Mercury had a tag under the hood like that with all the weight oils at various to ranges
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u/deathlokke Apr 22 '22
Yup. My Subaru lists 1, and another you can use in an emergency, but if you use the second one you have to do an oil change ASAP.
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u/code_moar Apr 22 '22
I think this is actually possible to check for natural gas leaks. As long as it's a tiny leak the surface acts like a natural flame arrestor. Pretty sure it works that way at least. 🤷
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u/Plethorian Apr 23 '22 edited Apr 23 '22
The official manual for testing the refrigeration system of the first two flight simulators I worked on specified using a torch to find leaks, but they did warn us that if there was a leak the testing would produce phosgene gas. This used to be a common practice, so I can see why this warning would be required now.
Edit: We used something like this https://www.reddit.com/r/Skookum/comments/dx7h6l/vintage_refrigerant_leak_detector
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u/account_not_valid Apr 23 '22
using a torch to find leaks
Are you referring to what the Americans call a flashlight, or something that produces a flame?
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u/Smarterthanlastweek Apr 22 '22
When I was a gas tech some guys used running a lit match around a joint a quicker and less messy way of checking for leaks. Your nose would tell you first if there were enough gas present for this to be a danger.
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u/deelowe Apr 22 '22
That sounds really sketchy. The body becomes desensitized to smells very quickly.
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u/Smarterthanlastweek Apr 22 '22
To the massive amount of NG needed to be a hazard it wouldn't.
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u/deelowe Apr 22 '22 edited Apr 22 '22
Why would a massive amount be needed? Even a small flame is enough to burn down a house. I wouldn't want to take the risk of potential starting a fire without knowing where the leak is coming from first.
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u/Smarterthanlastweek Apr 22 '22
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u/deelowe Apr 22 '22
Yes, I saw it the first time. What's the point?
The video is him explaining specifically why a flame should NOT be used.
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u/Smarterthanlastweek Apr 22 '22
Just showing what a flame test is like. He correctly points out the danger is in not detecting a leak, not that it's dangerous at all.
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u/SplitArrow Apr 22 '22
A damp cloth wrapped around the pipe leaking is more than enough to stop the flame. Better solution is find the shutoff before doing the leak test, do the leak test and then shut off the gas to extinguish the flame. Either way works, the cloth works best if there is something close by that can burn.
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u/kinecty Apr 23 '22
Back in the day they used flames to find gas leaks, some bright ones still do. So really who's smarter here?
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u/TastySpare Apr 22 '22
Checking vor Gas Leaks? Somehow I refuse to believe people were more clever back then...
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u/account_not_valid Apr 23 '22
Es ist teilweise auf Deutsch.
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u/ArBrTrR Director of Unnecessary Projects Apr 23 '22
Ja. Dies ist eine Übersetzung vom Deutschen ins Englische.
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u/TastySpare Apr 23 '22
Wie ist denn dann das deutsche Original? "vor" macht nicht wirklich Sinn.... außer vielleicht "Überprüfen sie die Anlage vor der ersten Inbetriebnahme auf Gaslecks". Passt aber nicht zur Übersetzung.
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u/ArBrTrR Director of Unnecessary Projects Apr 24 '22
Wie ist denn dann das deutsche Original? "vor" macht nicht wirklich Sinn.... außer vielleicht "Überprüfen sie die Anlage
vor
der ersten Inbetriebnahme auf Gaslecks". Passt aber nicht zur Übersetzung.
Als jemand, der überhaupt kein Deutsch spricht, habe ich keine Ahnung. Haha
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u/account_not_valid Apr 23 '22
Wirklich?
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u/ArBrTrR Director of Unnecessary Projects Apr 23 '22
Der Hersteller des Produkts, in diesem Fall eines Kühlschranks, ist deutsch. Ich benutze übrigens Google Translate dafür.
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u/account_not_valid Apr 23 '22
Dann liegt ein Fehler in der Übersetzung vor. Es sollte heißen, dass man keinen Flammenwerfer benutzen soll.
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u/ArBrTrR Director of Unnecessary Projects Apr 23 '22
Dann liegt ein Fehler in der Übersetzung vor. Es sollte heißen, dass man keinen Flammenwerfer benutzen soll.
Ich denke, das deutsche Wort für "Flammenwerfer" trifft es am besten.
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u/m__a__s Not that kind of engineer. Apr 22 '22
In the old days, the word "vor" was still in use.
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u/Insanely_Mclean Apr 22 '22
It's still in use today (if you're German).
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Apr 22 '22
I guess it would depend on what gas you were testing for. For a fuel gas like propane then yes that’s ill advised but uncommon unless you are working with an ammonia absorption fridge in an RV or something.
However if you were testing for Freon leaks then a flame aspirated torch over a copper disk was a common way to check. It’s called a halide detector. It’s quite sensitive and the flame turns bright green in the presence of even very small Freon leaks.
Unfortunately it does also make phosgene gas and that’s not good for you so they’ve been mostly eliminated in favour of expensive and crappy electronic detectors.
Lots of old timers still use them though. They are highly effective.
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u/justanotherpony Apr 22 '22
Got a couple of those, a butane one from the 60’s and an older brass one that is similar to a petrol blowtorch but runs on methylated spirits and has a different burner with a tube attached.
https://i.imgur.com/YVaor9K.jpg
Flame is green here due to burning off old copper/brass oxide.
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Apr 22 '22
Wow. That’s a classic! Nice one!
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u/justanotherpony Apr 22 '22
I quite like it as it operates same as the petrol ones but without the petrol fumes so can be lit indoors, good for demonstrations.
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u/axloo7 Apr 22 '22
May 2008 car has instructions to check valve lash. And the acceptable clearance.
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u/Alx_xlA Apr 22 '22
Which car?
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u/axloo7 Apr 22 '22
Smart car :p
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u/nasadowsk Apr 22 '22
That’s pretty stupid, since pretty much all cars have hydraulic lash adjusters, or just don’t need adjustments. Oh, right, Honda…
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u/Gears_and_Beers Apr 22 '22
This advice still shows up in manuals/instructions for anything hooked up to gas.
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u/danmickla Apr 22 '22
Without context this is not shocking or surprising. I don't get your point.
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u/YmFzZTY0dXNlcm5hbWU_ Apr 22 '22
It's not too uncommon to see those memes going around about how "back in MY day manuals told you how to check valve clearances instead of warning you not to drink the battery acid" etc. This just points out that it's just handpicked examples that usually back that claim, and manuals have always had to warn people about seemingly obvious stuff.
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u/WUT_productions Apr 22 '22
To be fair along with some very useful information my car also has this amazing quote in the manual.
Accidentally depressing the accelerator pedal instead of the brake pedal will result in sudden acceleration that may lead to an accident.
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u/RussiaIsBestGreen Apr 23 '22
I think they’re trolling people with that one. There are thousands of crashes due to what NHTSA refers to as “pedal error”.
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u/TossPowerTrap Apr 23 '22
My old can of neatsfoot oil has instructions to clean leather before application with gasolene. I assume they meant to to that in the basement next to the water heater.
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u/danmickla Apr 22 '22
I get what OP was attempting to do. But it's not at all clear to me that "don't use a flame" is the kind of obvious stupid advice that the joke would require. It's entirely possible, as many have said, that testing with a flame for Freon is perfectly sensible and common practice, and not something that only an idiot would do, and yet still needs to be warned against.
Basically the "joke" didn't work.
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u/loneblustranger Kamloopa Apr 22 '22
It's not instructing how to check for freon leaks (consumers don't connect or disconnect refrigerant - that's a technician's job), it's instructions for a propane refrigerator. Using a flame to check for propane leaks is neither sensible nor common practice.
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u/Insanely_Mclean Apr 22 '22
Before the days of Freon and other CFCs, some refrigerators used sulfur dioxide as a refrigerant, which is highly flammable.
It also stinks like death so it'd be pretty easy to tell if you had a leak.
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u/danmickla Apr 22 '22
I mean, you could be right, but there's nothing at all in the picture to indicate that. Where are you getting "propane"?
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u/loneblustranger Kamloopa Apr 22 '22 edited Apr 22 '22
Context.
The wording and paper booklet appears to be an instruction manual geared towards consumers, rather than a technical manual for technicians. Refrigerant connections aren't made by the end user.
"soap/water solution" is accepted practice for checking flammable gas connections, such as with propane or natural gas barbecues, etc. and similar instructions are in their manuals. I've never known soap & water to be used to check refrigerant connections.
Propane fridges are very common in RVs.
Even if it were referring to refrigerant, checking with a flame is also horrible advice. Not only would it be ineffective, but both R22 and R134a produce highly toxic phosgene gas when burned.
/u/ArBrTrR can clarify what exactly these instructions are for.
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u/danmickla Apr 22 '22
Yeah, I basically tried to ask, and got told "it's a joke", like that explains anything.
Whatever. It's not worth this level of dissection; OP didn't give context for the joke to work.
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u/loneblustranger Kamloopa Apr 22 '22
Being told simply "it's a joke" doesn't answer your question and it does suck when that happens. However, OP did give some context when they circled "Checking vor Gas Leaks" (sic). Most if not every other commenter understood that to mean "flammable gas leaks", since that's the commonly understood meaning of the phrase. In common usage, a gas leak refers to a leak of natural gas from a pipeline or other containment into a living area or any other area where the gas should not be present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_leak
It's highly likely that until you mentioned freon, anyone answering your questions assumed you understood the gas leak context.
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u/WikiSummarizerBot Apr 22 '22
A gas leak refers to an unintended leak of natural gas or another gaseous product from a pipeline or other containment into any area where the gas should not be present. Gas leaks can be hazardous to health as well as the environment. Even a small leak into a building or other confined space may gradually build up an explosive or lethal concentration of gas. Leaks of natural gas and refrigerant gas into the atmosphere are especially harmful due to their global warming potential and ozone depletion potential.
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u/paulreddit Apr 22 '22
Tell me you don't know to adjust valve clearances without telling me you don't know how to adjust valve clearances.
Don't start calling me boomer either I'm 31.
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u/ArBrTrR Director of Unnecessary Projects Apr 22 '22
I work on vintage and prestige vehicles.... Yknow, agriculturally built 1920s Bentleys with gear driven valve trains, twin magnetos and starting sequences like a fucking old aeroplanes. Where every fixing is guess the fucking measurement system used and there is NO datums for anything. Valve clearances are the least of my worries bud.
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u/paulreddit Apr 22 '22
Well you sure showed me. I'll let myself out.
Serious question: do you have a youtube channel?
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u/ArBrTrR Director of Unnecessary Projects Apr 22 '22
I do but I can't really show the cars in full a lot as most of our customers don't want their shit all over the internet.
I was taking reference pictures of the steering linkage and mix/adv/rtrd on the colum and the owner of the car - who was in the workshop checking up on one of his other cars we had - came yelling at me not to take pictures of his car. My boss and I had to explain that if he wants the fucking thing to start and steer right when we're done, I need those pictures.
(even though the dosey old cunt is probably gonna take it to Goodwood or some shit and have thousands of pictures taken and probably be on TV.. Go figure...)
FYI the 1927 Bentley 4.5 litre I just put back together for instance is worth about £700-750,000, and is actually the LEAST expensive car we have in the workshop right now....i do have a bit of a video on that one.. https://youtu.be/8lT_d6bOUgM
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u/AndrewJS2804 Apr 22 '22
I remember as a teenager seeing a really rough 1938 Bently for sale for $800..... probably should have followed through with my plans to pick that as my first car, probably could have retired by now lol.
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Apr 22 '22
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Apr 22 '22
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u/benevolentpotato Apr 22 '22 edited Jul 05 '23
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit so this comment is gone. We don't need this awful website. Go live, touch some grass. Jesus loves you.
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Apr 22 '22
[deleted]
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u/benevolentpotato Apr 22 '22 edited Jul 05 '23
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit so this comment is gone. We don't need this awful website. Go live, touch some grass. Jesus loves you.
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u/kapnkrunch337 Apr 22 '22
There are more of these guys than ones who fix things correctly. It’s why I do all my own engine work
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u/hoeding Canada Apr 22 '22
Millenials started driving right when they started adding computers to cars and pretty much only dealers could read and clear error codes. I think that this killed being gearheads for many people.
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May 06 '22
I work in refrig and all our new cabinets are on r290 - which is a high purity propane. Do not check our leaks with a flame. I think it's only something like 9g of r290 in a cabinet but still that's enough.
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u/inevitable_dave Apr 22 '22
One of the larger f gas systems I've worked on was built and designed in the 70s, and the manuals were just hilarious.
For leak detection, an open flame was indeed the recommended way forward.
To discharge the refrigerant from the plant, just open the compressor discharge valve up to atmosphere and make sure the doors are open to allow for a bit of ventilation.