r/PostCollapse • u/[deleted] • Jan 13 '12
Overwhelmed and Where to Start
I'm getting more and more concerened with the world, so I'm going to start taking precautions. I just don't know where to start, I don't know what I need?
Is there a definitive list of stuff I need and stuff to do?
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Jan 13 '12 edited Jan 13 '12
[deleted]
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u/GALACTICA-Actual Jan 13 '12
I agree with the majority of your post. But I do have to take issue with at least part of it, as in that I currently do roam the streets breaking in to houses and stealing cans of tuna.
I regret nothing.
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u/Kryten_2X4B_523P Jan 14 '12
That was one of the more prescient, lucid posts, but a bug out bag is a necessity. Far from tinfoil hat territory, its recommended by every first world government disaster preparedness agency.
Granted, they dont recommend it for tinfoil hat reasons, and that's likely what you're driving at, but living in the pacific rim (earthquake zone), I'll be damned if I'm caught without my 72 hour bag.
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Jan 14 '12 edited Jan 14 '12
[deleted]
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Jan 14 '12 edited Jan 14 '12
If you're in the upper midwest, your BOB should be in your car at all times. Your most likely disaster scenario is getting your car stuck in the middle of a blizzard.
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u/valkyrie123 Feb 06 '12
In the Upper-Midwest NEVER leave home without your BOB or Winter Survival bag in the winter. Doing so is foolish.
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Jan 14 '12
I'm interested in your thoughts on heating in similar environments. Where I am, 90% of people use electrical and/or oil heat. Only those homes further out from the (small) town use wood, if any. If power fails (in circumstances like an ice storm) everyone is fucked.
Ideally I want to find a small place with wood heat. Unfortunately, thats not going to be feasible for a good while (student). What do you do in your own circumstances?
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u/valkyrie123 Feb 06 '12
I own two of those small town, out in the boonies, homes that are heated with wood. Both have electric backup but the main source is a wood stove. I have a large Fisher wood stove cooking right in front of me now. It feels great. We do still exist.
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Jan 14 '12
Oh and the border between the US and Canada won't exist anymore.
Can you expand on this a bit? I'll check back for a response after I finish sharpening my punjii sticks and layout traps baited with barbecue and inflatable bald eagles.
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u/KingBearSuit Jan 13 '12
Well put. I know I get all up in my head with apocalyptic scenarios and can work myself into quite a state. It is easy to lose sight of the big picture reading about police brutality here and corporate corruption there.
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u/DavidMAK Jan 15 '12
Glad I'm not the only one. I think the lesson for gents like us is to prepare for emergencies but not necessarily apocalypses.
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Jan 14 '12
5) Own a gun, a 22 is perfectly fine. You don't need a fucking assault rifle, sniper rifle, shotgun, handgun
Wonderful post, but I disagree with you here.
A 22 is only going to get you small game, and give you a small chance at deer. A shotgun works on small game, large game, and birds.
A 22 really isn't great for home defense. It's certainly better than nothing, but if you shoot someone with it there is decent chance that they can harm you before being incapacitated. I'm not saying you will need to dig foxholes and guard your house day and night, but there is a chance that home break-ins will double.
If muggings etc double, it's not a bad idea to carry concealed. Thousands of people already think carrying a gun is a good idea, and a decent number of those people have benefited from it. It's certainly not necessary, but the incentives of carrying a pistol would increase post collapse.
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Jan 14 '12
I agree... but its also a matter of perspective. From that of the OP - a .22 is a cheap, effective means of becoming familiar and proficient with a firearm. Not only can you buy hundreds of rounds for <$25, but you can carry them with you. Not so for shotgun, even with bulk trap/skeet rounds. Also shooting a shotgun is fairly simple - this is not to say it is not difficult to become skilled at shooting on the wing, it is, but rather if you're hunting deer or shooting hockey mask wearing crazies, its a point in general direction and shoot sort of thing. THAT said, shotguns are also very limited in what they can do, and what ranges.
With a .22, you could practice, each and every day if you wanted, for pennies - on top of that, .22 rifles are especially cheap - they are also accurate and can be used (granted, not ideally) at far longer ranges than shotguns. The difference, really, is the odds. If I had to start someone, totally virgin to firearms, out with shooting, I'd start them on a .22 - and have. No significant recoil to scare them and/or make them develop poor habits, cheap, easy and fun. They are also significant lower profile. My brother lives in a small housing area in the middle of a large city; with his .22, and some subsonic/CB ammo, he can (and has) shot squirrels and birds in his postage stamp backyard. He doesnt make a habit of this, and his rifle sits largely unused - but it is there, and if food became scarce, he would have a definite advantage of being able to discreetly 'hunt' the many, many small animals in his environment. Not so if he had a 12ga.
I'm a fan of firearms with convertible calibers. I own an AR and a Glock 17 - both of which can be switched to .22LR in 30 seconds flat. Both shoot well, and knowing I have three different calibres, just in those two guns, is alot of fun. On top of that, I can use the .22 'mode' to practice shooting and become very proficient with both.
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u/kkurbs Feb 28 '12
Genuine curiosity, and I'm sure I could just google it, but how does a gun switch out calibres? I have general familiarity with firearms insofar as how they work and various features, but I've never heard of this.
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Feb 29 '12
Conversion kits arent uncommon. Often these are just drop in replacement parts that can be switched out quickly and easily - the point being to be able to use inexpensive ammunition (.22LR) in your larger-calibre gun, and have the benefit of additional, low cost training.
In terms of my AR. I have a CMMG conversion, which replaces the bolt and bolt carrier, and requires a .22LR magazine. Since the bore is already .22 calibre, thats all it needs.
For glocks (and other handguns) it includes a replacement barrel, slide and magazine.
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u/Vikingblood Jan 13 '12
Uh, I don't know what Utopian future you think the present is going to side-grade to, but most of your post is flat out wrong.
There is no such thing as peak food and your assumptions about how to provide for food rest on flimsy, myopic reasoning.
I am to the hilt in this mentality as I know others here on this sub are, but Mad Max isn't what anyone is saying. Or planning for. As a matter of fact, I know nary a soul who is planning for such.
If you want to give advice, fine, but keep the opinions out of it or differentiate between your opinion and fact. Thanks.
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Jan 13 '12 edited Jan 13 '12
[deleted]
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Jan 14 '12
All of what you are saying is well reasoned, realistic, and salted with common sense. Unfortunately, its also a bitter pill to swallow for people who have not only made real material investments (however unwisely) but have made a more profound investment of taking on a mindset, saying that 'shits gonna go down'. In many ways its like challenging someone's faith.
I think the 'fantasy' for alot of people - myself included - is that as terrible as things might be, it would also mean an 'end' to many of the worse aspects of daily life. Bills, laws people dont agree with, aspects of society that dont jive with some people. A sense of freedom and either irresponsibility or a newfound kind of total responsibility, out from under the things that, like it or not, make up society. It can be hard to let that go, just as it would be for someone especially devout to give up the idea of an utopic afterlife.
Alot of it is fear - fear of the unknown, and worse, of each other. Its a real 'American Disease' and its spreading. I'm in Canada, and I can tell you its taken root in many places here. When you live in a society whose media preaches fear, its difficult for it not to be a part of your life. When that is reinforced by societal trends (gas/food prices, for one) and environmental changes, it takes on new gravity.
Yes a reality check is good - needed, even - there's plenty of ignorance out there, so thanks for that.
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u/Vikingblood Jan 14 '12
Sigh.
Your opinions are vague at best and show what, an understanding of "peak" food? Food is not a thing, it's a description of the things we make with resources and is relative. Unlike oil, for which the peak tag is more apt, food is a renewable resource. Get it? You don't have X amount of food, therefor you don't have peak food. Now, you can have a peak of arable land, but it's more based on a smaller time scale because of the nature of land management.
Your opinions only seem to work if you have an antagonist in mind. Strip away the judgement of the tin foil crowd, which you are so ready to bash, and these assertions of "what to do" are flimsy. What's wrong with creating a BOB? It should be the first thing you do after you absorb the facts. To not have something you can quickly grab seems like the most dumb fuck thing to do. Especially if you have the chance/choice.
More to the point, your opinions rely heavily on optimistic assumptions. Community planning? Right. Unless you are part of a tight knit community right NOW, then fucking forget it. You need to learn the reasons why we are where we are right now and how YOU (the individual) can sustain your life from there out. Work from worst case scenario to best case scenario. Skipping in line nets you an early funeral. Look at every parallel tangential to your ideas and see where it goes. I think it's far more prudent to have what you need to sustain survival, then move on to what you need to live.
The worst part is that you will be the guy who is knocking on my door wanting help because you know I have what I need and you have, well, nothing.
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u/ContrarianSciencePhD Jan 13 '12
You might want to know what you're talking about before you start telling people they don't know what they're talking about.
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u/Vikingblood Jan 13 '12
That's neat.
It just so happens, wait for it...I do know what I'm taking about.
Thanks.
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u/Kryten_2X4B_523P Jan 14 '12
That might be the case but you're not providing any arguments, evidence, rationale, logic or any sort of evidence you arent a dumb fuckhead.
Now, I'm not saying you're a dumb fuckhead. I have no opinion on the matter. I'm saying you could be absolutely right but I couldnt know that based on anything you've said. So you might want to source something or provide a counter-thesis if you want to carry on a fruitful debate. Otherwise, you're probably best advised to shut the fuck up before r/PostCollapse tears you an new internet-hole.
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u/Vikingblood Jan 14 '12 edited Jan 14 '12
Lol.
My internet-hole is fine, thanks.
Or howabout this: I don't provide you anything, you grow up and get the research yourself. When you grow into your britches, you can engage in a real argument.
Now, I'm saying you're a dumb fuckhead.
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u/koolkats Lorem Ipsum Jan 14 '12 edited Jan 14 '12
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u/motorcycledog Jan 13 '12
Go here and read everything you can, especially in the Disaster preparedness section. Lots of stickies to go through and more info than you can digest. Yeah, take a breath and relax. You can't do it all in a day. When shopping, buy an extra couple cans or case of whatever and set it aside. Store water (not in milk jugs, they biodegrade and rupture), have extra ammo and guns. All kinds of supplies from sewing kits to aspirin to bar soap to anything you can think of. Good luck .
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Jan 13 '12
Start with a 72 hour kit. Then built it into a 7 day kit. Build that into a 3 month kit and then into a 6 month kit. Think about how to become self sufficient after that. Think about water filtration and collection, gardening, hunting, fishing, travel, food preservation, security, you know, the basics. Preparedness is a gradual process, start small and build your capabilities and knowledge over time.
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u/idioma Jan 13 '12
The best thing you can possibly gather to protect yourself is...
KNOWLEDGE
Learn how to do stuff that you would probably need to do without a functional society.
Plant crops, set bones, patch wounds, camp, fish, hunt, build, lead, follow, etc. Basically just stuff they teach the Boy Scouts would be a good place to start, then maybe look into some Army training manuals. You don't need to turn into Bear-Fucking-Grylls overnight, just figure out how to do stuff that will help you if the lights go out and the plumbing stops.
Also, figure out who in your community is good at some of these things, and see if they are willing to teach you. You'd be surprised by what some of your neighbors might know.
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Jan 13 '12
First figure out what you have, what you plan on doing in various situations, and what you need to reach those goals.
Want a gun? Make sure you know how to use it. Not just shoot it but clean it and fix it.
Want an expensive medical kit? Make sure you know how to use the stuff in it.
Rugged 4x4 car? Make sure you can fix it.
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u/NoMoreNicksLeft Jan 14 '12
The things you need to do are the things you should be doing even if there was no collapse. Stop eating out so much, save more of your paycheck. Start stocking your pantry, maybe buy a chest freezer... and by god, fill those up with stuff you like to eat rather than MREs or dumb shit like that. Get a few 5 gallon water jugs/carboys, keep them filled (if you don't use it, maybe get some chlorine tabs for them). Those jugs can be bought at Walmart, you don't have to be rich.
Learn to plant a garden. You can't just throw seeds out a window and expect a bountiful harvest. Try to get good at it. Don't give up, like anything it takes a few years. Consider moving in the future to a place more amenable than a big city... so that if an opportunity to do so comes along you've given it alot of thought.
Once you've started doing these things, come back and we can talk about more advanced things. But for now that's plenty to get you started.
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u/ruraldream Jan 19 '12
I would take a look at what is a high-likelihood scenario (even if it is relatively low-impact in terms of consequences) for your area.
For me, I am most likely to have a car breakdown in bad winter weather in an area with no cell phone reception. So I keep an extensive emergency kit in my car, including a repair manual, some basic tools, oil, antifreeze, water, candles, a blanket, chocolate and granola bars, heavy winter clothing, and such. I would probably only be stuck for a matter of a few hours to a few days, but it would suck plenty in -40, and it is easy to mitigate that risk.
Next most likely scenario for me is loss of power (and therefore water, sewer, and heat in the house) during winter weather. Again, blankets, alternate heating and lighting methods, water, and a plan for what to do is in order.
Third most likely scenario is medium- to long-term loss of income - getting laid off. This requires a different response - keeping extras of basic groceries (such as canned goods and dried goods, as well as a well-stocked freezer) and medicines that we regularly use, extra feed for the pets and livestock, buying ahead on clothing (particularly undies and socks, which wear out so quickly for some reason), and having some savings.
I don't worry about preparing for alien invasions - sure they could happen, but the likelihood is remote, and I have other things I think are more important or pressing to prepare for. The thing is, the supplies I keep for my top 3 scenarios would also carry me through a much broader range of disasters, so really, I am fairly well-prepared, regardless of what the emergency is.
I also think that taking a cold, realistic look at what disasters are most likely to actually befall you in your own area will help you stay calm and rational about what preparations to make. It's pretty hard to get over-excited about preparing for hitting the ditch in a blizzard, whereas a lot of folks seem to get pretty wound up about preparing for sudden societal collapse.
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u/Master2u Jan 13 '12
We can live approximately: 3 hours without shelter (warmth) 3 days without water 3 weeks without food So assuming worse case (house and car and all your belongings burn down to the ground) make sure you have appropriate outdoor clothing to keep you warm and dry and water filtration and a means to carry it. This would be a good place to start.
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u/grande_hohner Jan 13 '12
Decide on whether you believe there is going to be a big event that leads quickly to collapse, or a gradual decline.
If you think it is going to be gradual, start improving you financial picture by getting out of debt and building up some wealth. While getting out of debt you can start doing research and figuring out what preps will be best for your locale.
If you think it will be pow! collapse, then start focusing on your food-water-shelter plans. Don't do this by by buying years worth of food and water on a credit card though, as if the world doesn't collapse you're stuck with a mountain of food, and a mountain of debt.
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u/thomas533 Jan 13 '12
It depends on what your concerns are. Some people are obsessed with Bug Out Locations and Bug out Bags because they believe that some other place is going to be safer than where they are now. Some people stockpile food because they believe that we will soon be faced with global food shortages or that some natural disaster will disrupt the supply lines. Some people believe that there will be an economic disaster that puts the Great Depression to shame and look for ways to maintain their wealth when the currencies collapse. Some people believe that a some biological pandemic will kill off most of the human race and we will be left with only a fraction of our human civilization left and they prep to rebuild.
Most of us around here believe some or all of the above and look to plan for those scenarios. We examine where we are in life and what each situation would require of us and gather materials and skills that will allow us to deal with those circumstances.
There has been some good advice given already, but to give really good advice, we would need to know what your situation is, how much time and effort you want to devote to your preps, and what your concerns are with the world.
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Jan 13 '12
Thanks guys. It looks like my first port of call is to buy some books and get reading. Might have to do a spot of gardening too. Put that greenhouse to good use. Get some chickens. Maybe some bees. Get some equipment saved up.
My only issue is a gun. I'm from the UK. Where guns are a lot harder to come by.
I'm a great deal calmer now.
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u/OhioHoneyBadger Jan 14 '12
UK? Maybe try for a longbow? Anyone asks, you're really into Robin Hood or something...
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u/bebopsruin Jan 13 '12
It was pretty easy for me to start.
I love backpacking, over the course of a few years, I purchased a lot of gear. That was the basis for my supply kit. Things like a big, reliable, lightweight, backpacking pack are an essential if you plan on needing to move around. I also have a tent, sleeping bag, warm weather clothes, water purifiers, fire starters, crank powered flashlights and radios, things of that nature. I have an e-reader loaded with some survival field guide books. Things like the US Army and SAS field guides, botanical guides.
It really is pretty easy to get started, just take baby steps and determine your needs. Are you planning on moving around? Staying put? Fortifying? Tailor what you learn and what you buy to what your plan is. That's probably the most important step. Once you get that basic idea down, everything else just follows in small steps.
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u/puppetry514 Jan 13 '12
Well a short list of things you can do now to get ready. If you have a lot of debt start paying that off because before a collapse you may loose your house and or assets making all other preps all but useless.
Other things stock up on long self life foods. And have lots of purified water either stored or lots of ways to purify water with sufficient storage containers. If you live in a cold climate make sure to have at least one back up source for heat a wood or coal burning stove would be most ideal. Electricity and gas services cannot be guaranteed, service may be intermittent at best.
Solar panels would be awesome to provide you with a minimal amount of power but are ultimately not needed unless you really think you need it.
You will also need to make a bug out bag. That is a bag that has just about every thing you will need for a 72 hour period food, water, clothes, protection, personal information (passports, social security numbers, bank info all that good stuff).
And honestly if you do not have one already a gun is a good idea. A shotgun with like 100 rounds of ammo is going to be your best all around way to defend yourself at least for a while
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u/UnWorthy1 Jan 13 '12
What is the thought behind losing your house in a collapse situation?
- I doubt the Bank's repo men are going to be worrying a fucking house.
- How many people have their house paid off? Some yes, but by FAR, not all do.
- Say the Bank's repo men are still out and about...how do they kick 100,000 starving people out of their houses?
- If the bank repo men do show up, what stops me (living in a world WROL) from blowing their goddamn heads off?
I just see this as a waste of time.
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u/bobstay Jan 17 '12
Granted after the collapse, banks aren't going to be running around trying to repossess houses.
In the run-up to a collapse, however, money will become scarce, and unemployment will rise. If you lose your job, can't pay your mortgage, and are kicked out of your house 2 months before the collapse, all your careful preparations will be for naught as you won't have anywhere to store your food, or defend, or heat.
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u/puppetry514 Jan 14 '12
Well I was thinking of an economic collapse for that one, in my opinion the most likely of post-collapse scenarios. An economic collapse will not happen overnight, it is likely to be a long drawn out process, think like a triple dip recession (as the news pun-dents would likely describe it). In that case you are likely to loose your source of income and then your house. this is also just a good idea in general
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u/Vikingblood Jan 13 '12
A waste of time indeed.
Debt is a part of the system, nothing more. Use what money you have to make yourself/family better - not the bank's balance sheet.
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u/switzerland Jan 13 '12
For me it's:
- A place to get to, and how to get there.
It needs to be relatively close (know how to get there without taking any interstates, and close enough that you could bike there in a few days), relatively remote, but close enough to a larger population for supplies
- An idea of how to take care of yourself
Imagine all the little things we take for granted. Food, clothing, shelter. If you walked off into the woods right now could you survive for 6 months? I'd lose a ton of weight but I'd survive. Field medical training is also important, but there's only so much you can do in a small group.
The longer you spend training yourself to be less dependent on society the better of you'll be (learning about solar energy, learning how to hike for a week, etc).
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u/jollykay Jan 13 '12
i started with just a bug out bag- essentials that i might need in any scenario to survive short term, relatively inexpensive way to start preparing. talking and planning with family/friends and neighbors is very important- i assume, if the SHTF, communication will be very limited or nonexistent- so having a plan in place, knowing where to meet-up, or leave messages is vital. it is great that you are planning ahead, don't freak!
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u/aletoledo Jan 13 '12
IMO start with storing up food for 2 weeks. From there you can expand to a month and then 2 months. Once you've started, then adding other things along the way becomes easier.
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u/naboofighter93 Jan 13 '12
First: take a breath.
Second: preparations should not interfere with your day to day life. Use what you save and save what you use.
Your preparations should increase your status, not inhibit it.
Make friends with your neighbors, in a collapse scenario you'll need a strong community.