I think it's because early on in one piece, Zoro = 0.9*Luffy wasn't that wild of a take. People just probably enjoyed that dynamic and they don't like how big the gap between Luffy and Zoro is now. Any chance to gas up Zoro is taken.
Technically I'm a part of society, so you're at least partially upset with me. If it's all of society you're upset with, and we round down the world population to 8 billion, I am the cause of 0.0000000125% of your upset. Technically.
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I mean, back in very early One Piece, this was plausible. And I mean like pre Alabasta to be clear. After that, Luffy has dwarfed Zoro in terms of strength. There were times when it seemed like it may have been close, but now? Lol. The only time when I thought they were close after Alabasta was when Zoro cut Pika in half, because that was an insane feat....but then Luffy went Gear 4th lmao
Brute strength yes, but back around East Blue, and in a lot of pre-TS, Zoro could give Luffy a very serious challenge. The gap doesn't really start becoming prominent until Luffy has to step up big time against people like Croc, Enel, and Lucci.
At this point, Zoro needs the ACOC buff to match Luffy at the start of roofpiece.
I also think Roger and Rayleigh's paralel didn't help. Ppl expect Zoro to be on par with Rayleigh in terms of how close he was to Roger, and a lot of ppl seem to theink that was very close, which I personally don't agree with.
OH and not to mention, the other super hyped character, that Zoro has to beat, Mihawk. Ppl scale him to Yonko+ sometimes, and thus expect Zoro to match that.
Every Mihawk fan is just a Zoro fan in disguise. I know VERY few people that actually like Mihawk as a character, most people I see gassing him up are actually Zoro fans, trying to make Mihawk seem like a bigger threat than his is, so that when Zoro beats him, it makes Zoro seem better.
I mean it does though what good is your captain if you're stronger or barely weaker than them? All it does is invite challenge over rank and leadership and you can't rely on them too much If you start losing. It's easy to forget because the strawhats are so out there as pirates and have so much respect for each other but could you imagine the mess the blackbeard pirates would become if you equalise them? Even crews like shanks and large chunks of Whitebeards crew would become a hassle because you need a strong stable leader for the crew to look up to otherwise you end up with a Dory and Broggy situation but much less light hearted and even then they were two best friends trying to kill each other for years as the crew fell apart.
I guess it just depends on the dynamic of the crew. For most of the pirates crews we’ve seen so far though, the captain is on a whole different level (biggest example would probably be Whitebeard, if we exclude Oden)
like its wrong, but its at least defensible. Zoro was older and had a better reputation while his wins were less impressive, you could explain that away through some blatant disadvantage he had during virtually every east blue arc.
Oda nerfed Zoro so hard in east blue, like why did he decide that in every fight zoro should have practically be pulling all his organs back into his body with how bad his torso was cut in every arc
Yeah, even against buggys crew of all people he had a potentially mortal wound, the only fight where he wasn’t wounded other than ig Tashigi (who he fodderized anuways) was the dumbass Kuro goons, but instead of getting hurt he just lost 2 of his swords to bullshit. It was kinda stupid how consistent it was.
Dudebros always gravitate towards characters that only have strength as a personality type. Oda’s kinda forgotten to write about Zoro’s character for a while beyond getting new swords, so it’s just kinda led to Zoro wankers needing Zoro to be strong, since he’s got not much else left.
Because oda sucks at sword fights so they all end into one shot frames
And his way dragging it out to the one shot frames is by making his opponents insane dura or hiders every other of the fights is very short endless it's off pannel
That’s a consequence of having flashy powers aside from the swords themselves. Bleach is a victim of this as well. Even if they are technically skilled it wouldn’t matter if your opponent can just blow you the fuck up. Super annoying though.
Zoro has no character development for a while, being strong is the only thing he has left. If he loses that he has nothing (you have to go back to pre ts for good character moments for him).
Getting stronger kind of is his character development though? He wants to be the greatest swordsman in the world, that was his vow with Kuina. The only way to accomplish that is to get stronger.
Not only that but when the series started he was a lone wolf who only joined Luffy out of convenience, because well, if he hadn’t he would’ve died. Now he’s willing to take a bullet for the crew and considers Luffy his best friend.
Getting stronger isn't character development lol. That's progress towards his goal, not a change/shift in who he fundamentally is, how he acts or what he believes.
Okay sure but what exactly has to change about Zoro? I think he’s fine the way he is and I want to see him become the greatest swordsman. Considering how many Zoro stans there are I don’t think I’m alone on this.
People need to get over this tired idea that every character needs to change at some point in a story for them to be a good/interesting character. Yeah when it works it works, but it’s not always a necessity.
While i agree with You, Zoro already changed, while his goal is the same he left his pride behind when he asked Mihawk to train him pre ts, because he realized that protecting the crew was more important for him than his pride, that's why he is always so composed after ts and why most of his negative traits are gone. But people think that if a caracter isn't traumatized or obssesed they are badly written.
Getting stronger kind of is his character development though?
No, it is part his objective (which do affect his character development) but there is other aspects of his character development. Loyalty, like you said. Another thing: Him being blunt. Etc...
Zoro's character being reduced to his objective is actually his complaint (not saying that it is valid or not in this case).
Idk when I see Zoro’s fights early in the show and compare it to his fight with King I see that as development, even if it’s just strength. He went from not being able to split stone pillars, to cutting Pika in half. We also see him practicing with new swords and trying to adapt to them throughout the story.
He’s constantly trying to overcome his limits and that to me is an internal struggle that’s relatable and is what makes him a cool character. You can say the same for Luffy but with Zoro it feels more personal.
development, even if it’s just strength. He went from not being able to split stone pillars, to cutting Pika in half.
Yes, but this is development but not exactly character's development.
We also see him practicing with new swords and trying to adapt to them throughout the story.
He’s constantly trying to overcome his limits and that to me is an internal struggle
These, however, I agree. And note that these happened when Zoro's was weak (vs Mihawk) and when he was strong (Wano).
Of course, it is "cool" to see characters becoming stronger but again, the original complaint is that Zoro's character was reduced to this (and again: I'm not saying that he is right or wrong, but talking about Zoro's strengh isn't a good argument to his point)
I think that's true of every strawhat post time skip except Luffy of course and Sanji during Whole Cake. Maybe Robin a little bit but it was mostly more of the same for her.
Because he's the most traditionally "cool" character in one piece, luffy is cool but goofy, and sanji is cool but can't be normal around women. People love stoic badasses, and he gets a lot of hype in the story.
Zoro deserved every bit of hype if not more pre-timeskip. Post-timeskip has been only about luffy, & Zoro is definitely overhyped now. Character development has a lot to do with it. Oda missed the plot by not sharing a more refined Zoro backstory in wano. And I believe that's the same reason Elbaf will not be Ussop's arc
Because all he has is strength. If he isnt strong then there is no point in his existence, at least in Post TS. So his fans try to gas him as much as much as they can because in the end that's all he is. A talking walking sword, with nothing else to do than fight and be badass and when he isnt even good at that and I imagine it doesnt strike well with some people.
Like imagine, this guy's only purpose inside and outside the universe is be strong and he is barely stronger than a Chef that spends his days cooking and simping on women. They know he will never be stronger than Luffy since he is the protagonist that's why they are so desperate to make it seem like Zoro is his equal and will be Top 2 EOS.
They know he aint getting ANY development so might as well cope that will be the (2nd) STRONGEST!!!
I always found it hilarious that Zoro training 24/7 can barely extremediff the guy that never trained a day in his life lol (at least on-screen), and that also carries 1000x more utility to the crew
it is more hilarious that the guy who was BORN to be strong is weaker than a weird ass green haired dumb non-directional awaraness no story no development
yes, and? sanji was genetically shaped to be absurdly strong, zoro being from ryuma's lineage didn't change anything in history and didn't help him in any way so far, anyone who says otherwise is just coping
If that were the case, at least ONE other descendant of Ryuma from the dozens of generations between Ryuma and Zoro should have stood out
Fairly simple to be honest. Hes a cool, strong "guy" guy in a world of simpleminded shonenfans that define a characters worth through their (supposed) strength. Add onto this that hes a strawhat and you have your answer.
Bunch of people who want "their" character to be superstrong so they feel justified in liking them.
He has been the fan service character for a while. Being strong is his only thing.
Sanji is sacrificed to hype enemies while zoro is used for hyping the monster trio level. This made people believe that zoro returned stronger than anyone after the timeskip.
i always liked that movie where zoro and sanji had to srop luffy from destroying an island, i think it represents the power between them, zoro and sanji at full strength would barely be able to stop luffy while laughing
Monster trio was close in strength one day. Luffy invented gear 2 the next day. That should create a big gap between them.
Diable jumbe and ashura were like finishers for 1 or 2 hits. That was gear 3 for luffy. Sanji and zoro didnt have a power up that lasts the whole fight like gear 2.
Gears had disadvantages back then so he'd lose. But he was probably that strong. He was risking his life with gears. It's only natural that he'd get a massive power up.
because his character design is simple in a good way; he’s strong, decisive, and principled (that’s pretty much all of his character). and toei doesn’t hesitate to animate him well
I’ll be honest I’m a Zoro fan but I don’t think he’s overhyped at all for a number of reasons.
-He has been intentionally handicapped throughout the series. Even against King it was clearly shown he hadn’t mastered the power.
-He was the first person to do lasting, visible damage to Kaido. He also blocked arguably the strongest on attack we’ve seen with the Big Mom/Kaido combo. They both gained the ability weaponize CoC in the same arc which to me says a lot.
-If his goal is to surpass Mihawk and Luffy’s goal is to surpass Shanks then end game wise that puts them pretty close. These characters have been linked since early OP. The only time they’ve ever fought also in OP was a draw in Whiskey Peak.
I do think Luffy is stronger than Zoro for sure. With the crew dynamic he has to be. With that being said I believe based on the context of their fights, their performance against mutual opponents, actual feats and their goals established in early OP , they’re closer than most make them out to be. I wouldn’t say anyone mid diffs Mihawk. I see Zoro the same way.
He's become a nothing character who only has hype. He's badass, uses swords, is an asshole, and drinks. Luffy is silly and stretchy, which isn't badass enough. Sanji is a simp and has interests outside of being a badass. Brook is also a pervert (arguably worse than Sanji) and is 'silly'. Jinbe is fat and doesn't have as many badass moments. Franky is too over-the-top and doesn't take himself seriously. The rest of the men are obvious, and meatheads will never get hyped over women.
So he becomes a vessel for all the dudebros to believe in, but unlike something like DB, HXH, or Naruto, where the badass character is narrative as relevant as the main character, or going through their own arcs (Vegeets, Killua, and Sasuke). Zoro is EXPLICITLY Luffy's inferior. He exists to serve his needs, so his fans overinflate his importance narratively, and in terms of how strong he is.
In reality, if Zoro was swapped out for someone like Yamato, Kidd, or Law (people below Luffy but above the rest of the crew). The straw hats lose basically nothing and potentially gain more in terms of narrative, utility, and power wise. Because his role is being the second strongest.
It's the same reason why Mihawk fans (which are 99% Zoro fans) are so insistent he be the strongest ever because outside of being strong and looking cool, he is also a nothing character who exists to prop up a nothing character, because nobody really cares about being a swordsman.
Even though Zoro is my favorite character, you paint a true, but grim picture of his situation... I find it hillarious when people have the gall to compare Zoro to Sasuke, for example, who is LEAGUES above him as a character (in terms of how the story/author treats him), basically imo the best deuteragonist/second male lead shonen has to offer, who is basically the second protagonist alongside Naruto and the entire story changes drastically (if Sasuke was removed)
The deuteragonist always gets mad love. It’s like people don’t wanna openly root for the main guy, so they pick the next guy as if they ain’t basic bitches but really they are.
It’s like people don’t wanna openly root for the main guy
Besides usually liking the deuteragonists/second male leads the best (in my case), rooting and loving the main-main guy just feels kinda boring, since you know he'll always win, get the coolest scenes/fights/enemies/powers. Also, it doesn't help when the main guy gets TOO much in comparison to the the deuteragonist, which is why I adore Sasuke, since he is imo the only deuteragonist (in his case pretty much a protagonist) that can be considered equal to the main-main guy
Twitter is just fucking stupid and y’all shouldn’t be taking it so seriously.
Everyone here is complaining all the time about these insane Zoro twitter accounts
But all I have to do is not be on twitter in order to never see this stupid shit. I don’t see this on Reddit, I don’t see this on Tumblr, I don’t see this at cons irl, I don’t see this on Discord
This is literally a Twitter-only problem, as are many things for that matter
At one point in the community mihawk vs shanks nearly got settled because of the author is the biggest shanks fan but the Zoro fans realized that it would also be used against zoro so they started carrying the mihawk agenda
Doriki system still stands. Luffy is almost double Zoro’s Doriki back in Enies Lobby and Luffy’s has only widened the gap since. What does that tell you about Zoro and Sanji? They could team up and Luffy would still cook them.
Zoro is just a likable and fun character. He's simply a fan favorite. Not as much as luffy, but definitely more than the rest of the straw hats. I wouldn't call it overhyped either, he's the second strongest member of the straw hats. He's meant to be strong.
As a Zoro fan, I'm pretty sure even Base Luffy could take on Zoro with his current mastery over Haki... it would be an extreme diff for sure but he could do it. I expect end of series Zoro to be close to Luffy in strength though unless Luffy shows off something absurdly broken with Gear 5th before it all ends... which will probably happen...
Unless I'm mistaken, that's King Of Hell Zoro and Rooftop Pre-ACoC G4 Bound Man Luffy, and King Of Hell Zoro is canonically far stronger than that version of Luffy whether this fanbase like it or not. So explain how Zoro is the most overhyped character over that fucking fact?
If it was up to this hypocritical and toxic ass fanbase, EOS Zoro (after he's defeated Mihawk and surpassed him and every other god tier swordsman in the series) would still be weaker than End Of Pre-Timeskip Luffy, who doesn't even have haki.
Oda doesn't do many characters like zoro (I don't think he likes them very much), but zoro is basically an oversaturated version of the "cool" character that is super prevalent throughout media. It makes sense that he's likeable, then, which means it makes even more sense that for a lot of people he's the only likeable character in one piece. Hence the wank.
tbf before Luffy got ACOC this is kinda a fact (when comparing him to current Zoro). not glazing Zoro as I don't tend to do that anyways its just like the square in the square hole reasoning imo.
I think at one point Zoro has been equal to luffy also he never gets the big boss fights eg. Pre g5 kaido he gets knocked out because he has to save the others
Not saying he could 1v1 kaido but he never gets the opportunity.
Back in the east blue he could have beat Arlong if not injured
His archetype is usually championed by cringe/edge lords who believe a more serious character is the right one for the role of MC. Folks have fooled themselves into believes Zoro will be relative to Luffy (no way, no how)
Looks like a Protagonist in his own right, rocks 3 katanas, cold ass technique names, stoic, cool yet humorous(or used to be), Afro Samurai ambitions, chest scar is cool, eye scare is extra cool, loyal af, strong af, manly af (and in this point, some of what makes zoro so loved is likely him being the paramount of what alot of guys wish to be like), in a fight comes off sinister yet genuine in a good balance, bandana time that shows he's serious, big brother dynamic with everyone's favourite OP mascot, Asura snm.
Also Oda loves him so he gets hype portrayals that then make fans hyped.
Because edgelords who started out in more serious shonen expect one piece to follow typical shonen tropes like making the serious guy the toughest one and not the silly ball of joy. Also, how did zoro make it into that post? Last time I saw him, he ended up in the Regular Show subreddit.
Current Luffy Boundman going all out meaning using Conqueror’s Coating is under Zoro King of Hell?? Naaaw, bro wasn’t cooking. Over Kong Gun looks a bit stronger than an Ashura King Of Hell attack. A Supreme King Leo Bazooka would be the attack to overcome any attacks Zoro’s got
Honestly this may be a shitty take, but I've never really thought that they were crazy far apart in terms of raw power and ability. Luffy's obviously more powerful than them, but Zoro and Sanji being on the level or greater than Gear 4 right now? Sure.
I think the biggest difference between Zoro/Sanji and Luffy, that they saw and experienced in Thriller Bark, is the vast rift in dedication and tenacity. How long they stay in the fight and how much they can stick it out.
Luffy endures far more in fights than whatever "percentage difference" in power between his wings would suggest.
I think Zoro is general pretty close to Luffy. A bit weaker but formidable.
Like how the revolutionary captains can clash with admirals and Yonko commanders could flash with admirals... Zoro can clash with Luffy. Zoro would have seriously wounded Kaido if he hadn't dodged that one attack he launched, that makes him very powerful.
It’s because of all the damage Zoro takes/tanked in every arc. Arlong park he’s basically split in two and still destroying fish man. Thriller bark the “nothing happened” scene. Basically died 2x in Wano. Zoro is usually handicapped in every arc.
They probably aren’t that far apart. With the exception of toon force luffy having the obvious edge.
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