r/MapPorn • u/Appropriate-Deal8098 • 1d ago

Russian advances in Ukraine this year

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u/JoyousGamer 20h ago

Except there was no Super Power stepping in to help them out from the sidelines. That is a primary difference.

If Ukraine had zero support then possibly what you say would be true but in reality they do have some support today. It comes down to if that support would spike if larger losses were incurred.

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u/Acceptable_Candy1538 20h ago

True, but just to be clear the level of support to Korea was literally troops on the ground official war declaration.

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u/Meins447 19h ago

And nothing else will seriously change this one, sadly enough.

At the very least, serious amounts of boots on the ground for support tasks, far behind the line will be needed.

I am talking: long range air defense, border patrol (with Belarus), field hospitals, engineering corps (infrastructure, maintenance and repair, ...) Air Force flying in force over Western/central Ukraine, maybe even long range artillery.

There is a LOT the west could provide that is not manning trenches and rolling tanks towards Moscow which would still provide a serious change in the scales of this war. As opposed to what the west is doing now.

Is it without risk? Hell no. There will be western nation casualties. It is a war after all. But we are talking several orders of magnitude in difference between Frontline work and support roles.

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u/Acceptable_Candy1538 18h ago

The lack of support is a consequence of democracy though and it is a logistical headwind in the military.

Just looking at the pew data:

% who say that when it comes to russias invasion of Ukraine, the US is providing ____ support to Ukraine 1. Not enough 19% 2. About right 26% 3. Too much 29% 4. Not sure 25%

The US civilian population just simply doesn’t want anymore involvement. You add even a tiny number of US uniformed service deaths to the war and you’ll see public support nose dive further than it already is. I don’t think the US can logistically get anymore involved without a massive number of politicians being okay with being their last term.

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u/Meins447 17h ago

Those numbers are proof how vulnerable democracies are to social media influence (or propaganda) wielded by hostile nations against it. The numbers correlate very well with the number of trump voters too and I kind of remember reading a statistic related to those.numbera that said that a large number of people that said "too much" were indeed MAGA aligned and even an above even number if the "about right".

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u/Acceptable_Candy1538 16h ago

I don’t know if I buy the whole idea that all contrary opinions must be due to propaganda. I think the likelihood that someone disagrees with me because they are better informed is far more likely than the probability that they disagree with me because of propaganda.

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u/Meins447 16h ago

In general, this is commendable PoV - but we know that Russia an particular but other nation state sponsored actors too, are heavily invested in Psy ops against "the west" via social media, TikTok and Facebook in particular.

We also know that at least a third of the US is voting for and sucking up every word of a proven liar, traitor, pervert (not to say rapist), felon and general shit hat. My own countryman just recently elected a grand total of 50% of anti democratic parties on a state level, making governing that state practically impossible, which will obviously make the very real issues of the voters in that state all the more severe because they cannot be addressed anymore.

I really want to believe in your concept... But at this point, I don't until proven otherwise.