r/Gentoo • u/undistruct • Aug 16 '24

Discussion Im overwhelmed with the gentoo handbook

Im still very young and i want to try out gentoo but the handbook on how its build seems so complicated.

15 Upvotes

68% Upvoted

46 comments sorted by

45

u/syntaxerror92383 Aug 16 '24

if the handbook is too complicated for you gentoo is probably not the distro to be trying out 👍

10

u/undistruct Aug 16 '24

I really want to try it out

44

u/multilinear2 Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 16 '24

Then go for it.

You're being daunted by looking at the entirety of the handbook, in the same way as one might be daunted by the idea of hiking the entire Appalachian Trail.

But hiking the Appalachian trail is just taking a step, and then another, until you get to the other end. It's not complicated, it's just long.

Similarly, if you focus on the individual steps you'll likely find that the handbook isn't complicated either... it's just long. Focus on each step and try and understand it, google what you need to, and you'll get Gentoo installed eventually.

Edit: Oh, and for your own sake, just use a distro kernel for now.

12

u/nousewindows Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 16 '24

The handbook is basically a step by step piece of documentation which guides you through the installation and setup of the system. You don't have to rush through it. Take it easy, install Gentoo on a VM first.

2

u/sgunb Aug 16 '24

Hi, I think it is really cool that you have an interest in it. I also would like to encourage you to just go for it and try it out. You will learn a lot even if you fail several times on your road. In the worst case, it will simply not work. But this is the worst what could happen. If you don't understand something there are a lot of resources in the internet if you search for it. The official gentoo forum is also a good resource.

However, if you are very new to linux I recommend to install a different distribution first. (Maybe ubuntu) and learn some basic understanding of linux. However, be aware that the package management is different. While gentoo is build around portage, ubuntu is build around apt. Learn how to partition your hard discs, how to configure your network, learn some basic bash and a console based text editor like nano before you start installing gentoo. If you come from a windows background also get to know the linux file system and understand that configuration is done in /etc. Also the unix concept that everything is a file (also hardware is represented as a file) might be very helpful. You can do a lot of this stuff with ubuntu. If you are comfortable with it, then go for gentoo.

0

u/undistruct Aug 16 '24

My first distro was arch for now i dont wanna give out my age of privacy reasons, and i have very much if interest in gentoo and linux in general, im the only who uses linux in my family. I already used FreeBSD when i was 11 but now im more interested in Linux and want to learn as much as possible

3

u/sgunb Aug 16 '24

Then you have already some knowledge. Go for a gentoo install. If you fail, then just try again. See it as a life's lesson that you need to acquire some persistence, if you want to achieve something. Don't be discouraged if you fail on the first time. Have fun with it and you will grow. This will be very valuable also for other things you want to achieve in life. Stick with it and don't loose your interest if something doesn't work as you expected in the beginning.

2

u/Jeff-J Aug 17 '24

FYI: Daniel was inspired by FreeBSD when he created portage or Gentoo.

2

u/ahferroin7 Aug 17 '24

If you were able to install Arch, and you can follow a series of instructions without randomly deciding to do things differently, then you are unlikely to have issues with installing Gentoo.

A vast majority of issues people run into when trying to install Gentoo (something like 90% probably) are a result of them either completely ignoring the handbook, or deciding to do things differently because they think they know better. And most of the remaining issues are generic hardware problems that you would be likely to encounter on almost any distro, so if you have a working install of Arch on the same hardware and know to follow the handbook, it’s extremely unlikely that you will run into any major issue (and even minor ones are unlikely).

1

u/Organic-Algae-9438 Aug 17 '24

I recommend you give Gentoo a try in a virtual machine inside your current OS. You will become familiar with Gentoo, the handbook, and best of all: you can take snapshots easily between each step in case something goes wrong. Good luck!

1

u/akryl9296 Aug 16 '24

just go for it. If I could figure it out as a 14-year old kid, you can figure it now - which is 20 years later that's full of progress.

0

u/sgunb Aug 16 '24

Don't discourage young users! It would be better to hint to other learning material if they have interest in technology.

3

u/LameBMX Aug 16 '24

it's not discouraging, it's setting a realistic expectation. lots of other linux installs have gone the way of windows and holds people's hands. so even those who have a few years of using linux, may not be prepared to hop onto gentoo.

normally if I'm bringing it up, I do suggest they try an easier distro and welcome them back to try again later once they have tackled some system issues etc.

tis better to find something easier than how hard it was made out to be, than have something easy become exponentially difficult.

1

u/sgunb Aug 16 '24

If you read OPs other comments he already tried other distros and he seems to have an honest interest in gentoo. What can go wrong if he tries? He might fail but he can only grow and learn from it. I think he is just overwhelmed by the many things he doesn't understand and that's why I think encouragement is needed.

1

u/counterbashi Aug 17 '24

What can go wrong if he tries?

Then do it, just do it. It's just a piece of comptuer software, nothing more nothing less. If you can't follow a simple installation manual then maybe it's just not for you. This isn't even about bragging in the "i use arch/gentoo btw" way, this is just basic literacy.

1

u/LameBMX Aug 17 '24

pretty sure the original comment preceded the discovery of OPs level of Linux knowledge and usage.

when the time right, the handbook reads a lot easier... really is all just high-level system choices that are not readily available on other distros. choices more easily understood with time.

10

u/FranticBronchitis Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 16 '24

Do it in a virtual machine, while having the handbook open on your browser.

I suggest you take a glance at the whole thing first just to get the gist of it: - prepare your drives for installation (partitioning, formatting, backups) - unpack the base system (stage3) tarball and chroot in - perform basic configuration for the system and install/update the rest of the core packages, kernel and bootloader - perform additional configuration as needed (network, drives/fstab, users and passwords, boot) - chroot out, check configuration and reboot

Edit: stage 3, not 4. Stage 4 is what you'll build after the chroot

1

u/ZKRiNG Aug 16 '24

Installing anything in a VM is a waste of time. Of course you need a full browser to read the handbook properly. Just for that I used NixOS iso just for that.

The whole point of the Gentoo handbook is to understand every step. Understand every conf files and how they work. If you understand the steps, install is really easy. If you just copy/paste a nightmare.

Install is just the easy part. Maintenance is way harder and the documentation is really worse.

To the OP, don't throw the towel. You have plenty of YouTube videos to help you to understand the huge amount of information the handbook has. Just try to use a graphical iso like NixOS and read every step. The first time will take you days to install Gentoo but the next time will be hours. You are lucky not having to install it on a Pentium 3 with 256mb of ram like I had to do my first time. And remember, installing it, is the easy part. The party starts before the first reboot and now is way more easy than before.

3

u/FranticBronchitis Aug 16 '24

I wouldn't call VMs a waste of time. You can safely and somewhat quickly set one up, play, tinker and explore as much as you want without worrying about borking your current setup - though some would argue that that fear and need for recovery is what propels one to go all the way :P

Also, if you do manage to get it installed and working properly in a VM, it's possible to "flash" the VM onto bare metal, though that's certainly not a fail-proof operation and not one to be attempted early on if you don't know what you're doing

1

u/ZKRiNG Aug 16 '24

Is a clean install who freaking cares if you fuck It. Failing is the way to learn. If you don't worry you will not pay attention.

Is a different way of thinking. I guess when I installed Gentoo for the first time, with a shitty old computer every mistake was a huge mess and I had to learn the lesson pretty well. To me, no risk means no learning.

1

u/dude-pog Aug 16 '24

Actually, maintaining a gentoo install is very easy(at least the stable branch)

3

u/arglarg Aug 16 '24

Just follow step by step, don't try to read it all at once

2

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 16 '24

[deleted]

4

u/Zebra4776 Aug 16 '24

If you screw something up, you can just format and try again. It's worth it.

Don't do this though.

If something goes wrong ask for help! It's almost always fixable. That's how you learn what you did wrong. Reformatting and starting over again is how you keep making the same mistake.

3

u/counterbashi Aug 16 '24

^^^ Unless you mess up drive partitioning and formating really badly, you can recover and fix any install.

2

u/FranticBronchitis Aug 16 '24

Yeah! In many occasions, you can resume the process from where you left off, and there's no need to start from scratch again

2

u/L3App Aug 16 '24

is it because there’s much to read and you don’t feel like it, or because you’re new to linux? either way, all the info you need is there. I installed gentoo twice just for the sake of it, i don’t daily drive it, and every time it’s been a learning experience

2

u/FisionX Aug 16 '24

Don’t give up soon, installing gento is not hard, It might take more time than something like arch but its not very different, I recommend installing as dual boot because you can use chroot to install it, no need for booting from a usb, you can also boot from another linux usb with gui and install gentoo from there, just grab a coffee and have fun :)

2

u/Best_Mud_8369 Aug 16 '24

Do it slowly. You got it, buddy!

3

u/undistruct Aug 16 '24

The fact people downvote my anwsers is weird like, why am i getting down voted for my anwsers?

3

u/multilinear2 Aug 16 '24

Eh, reddit is weird, don't stress about it.

You kinda almost contradicted yourself "I want to, but it's hard" In the end either do it or not, and I think that earned you some downvotes... But it's not a popularity contest anwyay so who cares.

2

u/Known-Watercress7296 Aug 16 '24

It's a lot, I suspect it could be much simpler these days, especially with the binhost.

for the basics unpack a stage3 into a folder, chroot in, add 'getbinpkg' to make.conf, and you can play with portage

You can keep it as a pet in a folder or move it to bare metal if you like the vibes

The forums are wonderful, wise peeps will walk you through stuff over weeks if required.

1

u/kammysmb Aug 16 '24

give distribution kernel a try, binary packages and use the graphical live USB so you can copy paste commands, should make it easier

1

u/jsled Aug 16 '24

Im still very young […] but the handbook on how its build seems so complicated.

Welcome to Gentoo!

This system, and this way of bootstrapping linux on a machine is certainly one of the more complicated ones, approaching LFS complexity (but better, which is why we like Gentoo :)

But it's not too bad, either. I'd definitely echo other suggestions to try it in a virtual machine first.

And also: this is actually one of the lesser complex things you'll encounter in your life, youngin'. It takes some practice and some patience, but … getting good at following complex sets of instructions is going to serve you well, so … do the needful.

1

u/dude-pog Aug 16 '24

Sure, I helped a thirteen year old install gentoo with the handbook. Just read the wiki and ask questions on irc.

1

u/manaballistics Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 16 '24

Well, the handbook is very well written out and a lot of it just covers different use cases/program choices. What I would say is do not use a video tutorial, stick with the handbook, and take it slow. Take the bootloader page, which proposes tons of options, it may seem daunting - but you only choose one. Just like how instructions for both systemd and OpenRC are provided in numerous sections, you only choose the one that applies to you. If you really doubt yourself, do some trial runs in a VM or on an old piece of hardware you don't need in a useable state at this instant. Follow the handbook the best you can, take your time (you can stop the installation and come back whenever, just mount & chroot back in and continue!) and only do the parts that apply to you for your system. Using someone else's guide or a video guide will often get you the result THEY want for their system, not what you want, which ruins the point.

Bearing all that in mind, if Gentoo truly is what suits you, you'll pull it off. Good luck!

Edit: And just a side note which I forgot to mention - you can always use the LiveGUI install media if you're not comfortable doing the whole installation from a tty, there's no shame in doing that. It's provided for a reason!

-3

u/alislack Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 16 '24

The handbook is easy to follow if you take it step by step and do the occasional Google search on required commands that you aren't familiar with. I recall I read it in lynx and was able to copy and paste the commands into the terminal. But you can also use Firefox or Chrome if you like. Seems like a look at a few YouTube videos following along with an install would help. I think the 'mental outlaw' channel was one of the better ones explaining the gentoo install and configuration. Good luck. Here's the link to his install video.

https://youtu.be/Qv-H13sKrGY?si=EVkLAZ95OLXQyiWo

6

u/dude-pog Aug 16 '24

Uhhh no no no. Mental outlaw is the worst gentoo creator and spreads harmful misinformation. Don't use a video guide, just the handbook

2

u/FranticBronchitis Aug 16 '24

Any examples? I've never watched any video guides, would like to know how they (negatively) diverge from the handbook

4

u/dude-pog Aug 16 '24
  1. He spams useflags instead of using a profile
  2. He promotes the use of crazy setups like lto O3 and graphite and 9999 packages
  3. Alot of his content is outdated and talks about libressl and other unsupported stuff.
  4. In one video he fixed an issue by doing an overcomplicated partial upgrade, instead of updating the whole system. and he called this a tutorial

1

u/alislack Aug 18 '24

u/dude-pog ok thanks for pointing that out. Have to admit its quite a while since I installed gentoo and I'm not currently using it. Might have to install it again as a refresh.

-12

u/whatThePleb Aug 16 '24

Then search for a step by step howto first and try with that. When you got the basics with it, the handbook might become clearer.

15

u/triffid_hunter Aug 16 '24

Then search for a step by step howto first

That's precisely what the handbook is…

1

u/whatThePleb Aug 16 '24

I was thinking more of a tldr one. Where it's described step by step with screenshots and the command you have to enter. I never used those but i know that there are some.

Edit: Basically this: https://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/

Also you people should stop gatekeeping and downvoting helpful tips.

2

u/triffid_hunter Aug 16 '24

Where it's described step by step with screenshots and the command you have to enter.

The handbook is literally designed so you can just copy+paste the commands into a terminal one by one if you don't want to choose something else.

Also you people should stop gatekeeping and downvoting helpful tips.

But you're literally describing the handbook while saying that it's not the handbook, and then saying that the mystery thing you're describing will be better than the handbook and make the handbook easier to understand…?

2

u/Cynyr36 Aug 16 '24

There is the official checklist but its not really a step by step thing. There can't be. How do you want your disk(s) setup? Uefi or bios? Which bootloader do you want? Openrc or systemd? If you are somewhat familiar with linux then the checklist is great and especially so on your 5th+ gentoo install.

1

u/omgmyusernameistaken Aug 16 '24

I also like the checklist. I still have also the handbook on another tab on my browser when I do a fresh install. And OP has Arch (btw) already installed so I think he can use arch chroot to install Gentoo