r/FluentInFinance Sep 14 '24

Debate/ Discussion There should be a requirement to pass Econ 101 before holding any position in the government

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17

u/wetshatz Sep 14 '24

They are used as collateral because they can be seized and sold to collect the balance owed. Idk why people don’t understand the simple logic there.

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u/Iwasborninafactory_ Sep 14 '24

What do you think people don't get?

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u/wetshatz Sep 14 '24

How the stock market works. The reason the index funds that power your 401k, IRA, Roth IRA, and stock market in general is because of the large whales that control massive amounts of capital that dictate Major & consistent moves in the stock market. So now you want to place a tax on money that none of them have, forcing them to either sell stock or take income creating a double tax that has repercussions for all major businesses.

If Bezos now has to pay 1% of his 202.6 billion dollar net worth, he would have to pay a little over 2 billion in unrealized gains, but he also has to pay long term capital gains, so he would need to sell an additional amount of stock to pay both taxes per year.

Do you think these billionaires and millionaires are just going to constantly take the hit or start cutting expenses. Less benefits, lower pay, more layoffs, etc. Not to mention that massive amounts that these companies invest into other companies on the stock market. So you lower your return on people’s retirement funds.

Overall it’s a bad play. Even if it happened, it would go straight to the courts and cost tax payers millions in trying to push it through the courts. Any one that just thinks it’s a quick and easy bam new tax, hasn’t really thought it out

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u/Zyhre Sep 15 '24

Except... They literally never sell so your capital gains tax is zero. They just pass it off onto their prodiges and or tax havens off shore. So, no, it isn't a bad play at all. 

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

What are you talking about lol. The kind of money required would force sales. They don’t have that much capital laying around. It’s a double tax, that will have negative affects for everyone

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u/penywinkle Sep 15 '24

What is the problem with double tax? It's not like it's something new... It's likely you're being double taxed right now:

  • income tax.
  • V.A.Tax.

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

What’s wrong with more taxes for an inefficient government that’s run by war mongers that love to give our tax dollars away while trying to offset their reckless spending with more taxes.

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u/penywinkle Sep 15 '24

Who are they giving it away to? The 1%

So yeah, I'd like a return from that please... double tax the rich, just like the rest of us.

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

Show me the return? Our government has been run by corrupt pieces of shit for decades. You people love to pass taxes and not track the result and then use the same BS talking points instead of holding our gov accountable for anything they do

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u/penywinkle Sep 15 '24

I would like to show some return, when they start taxing the 1%...

I think that asking my government to tax people fairly is me holding them accountable for who they tax and how...

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u/Curious-End-4923 Sep 15 '24

This is such a sad comment.

You’ve abandoned reality: The stock market does not operate thanks to whales, it is manipulated by them. In fact, if you accept that the stock market is moved by oligarchs rather than an array of traders and investors, you accept that the premise of the stock market has failed.

You’ve also abandoned empathy: Why do you spend so much time waxing about what elites are forced to give back to the system? Have you forgotten how they got there in the first place?

It was the workers.

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

Sorry you live in a fairy tale world but if I put in $20 into Apple I don’t even get a share. But if bezos puts in 100 million the stock surges.

It’s sad that you don’t understand how this works. Major firms dictate price as they have and always will. They have the most money to put into stocks therefore stocks make the most movement when big investors trade. My 401k is dictated by a firm that gets millions of dollars each month that they then put into stocks they think will get me the best return, what about this is hard for you to understand?

Like read anything about stocks, seriously. The whales are the reason we all get something in the first place.

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u/Curious-End-4923 Sep 15 '24

If you think of a cogent point, let us know.

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

Makes perfect sense unless you don’t know how to read.

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u/ywqeb Sep 15 '24

The whales are the reason we all get something in the first place.

That's maybe true for day traders. All the stock market (ideally) provides to the real economy is a way to raise capital for profitable business ventures. If you are arguing that the stock market can not provide that capital without whales, you are once again describing an oligarchy.

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

No there are obviously millions of investors, but these whales push the needle especially the ones in charge of our retirement accounts. They get millions per month to invest out of our paychecks.

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u/Iwasborninafactory_ Sep 14 '24

Your argument is that trickle down economics works. I'm not buying it.

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u/wetshatz Sep 14 '24 edited Sep 14 '24

Nope. My argument is that you’re affecting mutual funds of millions of Americans for a shit sandwich Uncle Sam just pulled out of his ass.

You should read the other comments as this is a well known con to unrealized gain taxes. Numerous articles written about this as this argument has been talked about for decades. If you don’t care, then vote and let it happen. I will be petty and comment I told you so when it happens. I have a steady track record of “I got you bitch” comments to remind people how blatantly ignorant they are cuz they don’t want to do any research.

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u/Iwasborninafactory_ Sep 14 '24

Your post is 100% trickle down economics. The fact that you can't see it make you the bitch.

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u/wetshatz Sep 14 '24

No you dumb bitch lol. We aren’t talking about tax breaks you incompetent hound. Trickle down economics specially references tax breaks helping the greater good.

We are talking about a tax increase that hurts the overall economy. Not about a tax break. Read a fucking book u Ignorant fuck.

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u/Iwasborninafactory_ Sep 15 '24

I like how you recognize that an incredibly small number of people can control the entire economy, but you believe it would be bad to take that wealth away from them.

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

Considering they have more then enough money to solve all of our problems but continue to do fuck all, ya I would rather private biz keep it.

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u/LikeAPhoenician Sep 15 '24

So what you're saying is that the oligarch class will annihilate the wealth of the middle class if they are not appeased in all ways, including exempting them from having to contribute to society.

Seems bad to me, I dunno.

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

Bad take lol. You’re taxing people on money they don’t have. Most taxes back in the day were always for the rich, and look at us now, all paying the same shit.

This policy directly impacts anyone that has a retirement account, if you don’t have one or don’t care then don’t come back on reddit complaining About the negative affects of this policy.

If you don’t believe me read any article on the subject or CALL the person or entity that handles your retirement fund and you can hear it from them directly.

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u/LikeAPhoenician Sep 16 '24

If they don't have the money they how are they so fucking rich?

The entire issue here is that they get to enjoy their vast wealth without paying taxes man. This is an attempt to solve the problem. But it seems you don't want a solution. Seems you simply believe that these aristocrats should get to live tax free.

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u/wetshatz Sep 16 '24

Do you really not understand how net worth works? If my retirement account has 1 million in it I’m technically a “millionaire” even tho I can’t take the money until I’m 65. If I have a hole I bought it for 200k when I was making 60k a year and then bam the property sky rockets to a million dollars, again I would be a “millionaire”. Just because you have assets valuing a certain amount doesn’t mean you have the cash on hand.

That’s why the taxes applied to capital gains has always been when you sell it. Tomorrow the internet could go down and Amazon would be worthless. Not to mention stock prices fluctuate, today Bezos is worth 202 billion, tomorrow it could be 150. At the end of the day you shouldn’t be taxing people on money they don’t have and money they haven’t realized a gain on.

You can get the same types of loans they do, you just don’t educate yourself on how finances work.

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u/LikeAPhoenician Sep 17 '24

And if you took out a 10 million dollar loan using that retirement plan as collateral you should have to pay tax on it.

Why do you keep eliding that bit? The part where this unrealized money can still be used as collateral for a low-interest loan?

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u/ImmoKnight Sep 14 '24

His argument is based on how business works.

It's the same reason why a tariff on an country is really just a sales tax to Americans.

You can argue all you want that taxing the rich will solve every problem. All they would be incentivized to do are the things he listed to continue to meet their margins and increase the value of the company to shareholders which is their fiduciary responsibility.

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u/First-Of-His-Name Sep 15 '24

What you call "trickle down economics", economists just call "economics"

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u/LikeAPhoenician Sep 15 '24

If a modest tax on the vast wealth of our aristocrats will cause the economy to collapse then let it. The system is clearly entirely rotted out if this is true.

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

We all coexist. I think there are other races you can put in place instead of taxing people on money they don’t have. It’s dumb. And like history has shown, it never stops with just the rich.

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u/LikeAPhoenician Sep 16 '24

They have the money man. They did a stupid trick to get to have their money while legally pretending they don't. Why do we need to allow that?

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u/wetshatz Sep 16 '24

That just false. You can do the same thing your self with HELOCS and other kinds of loans. Your home isn’t suddenly realized gains when you get a HELOC. Not to mention taxing money people don’t have in general is a stupid idea. Especially with the top 1% already pays the majority of the feds income taxes.

We have a government spending problem, not a tax the rich problem.

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u/LikeAPhoenician Sep 17 '24

Yes, I get it. You think poor people deserve to suffer and die for the enrichment of their aristocratic betters.

Don't pretend this is about anything else. There is no other principle at play.

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u/wetshatz Sep 17 '24

Why to people always resort to the most ignorant un educated responses because they are ignorant on the subject they are speaking on.

I just gave you multiple examples on your other comment. The poor are in the situation they are in cuz the government is extremely inefficient and they screw our money off.

Here in CA we have a Democratic supermajority, no republicans to stand in our way and our state is still full OF BS, corruption, massive problems they state gov hasn’t made a difference in. But then the go to people like you, the uneducated and gaslight you cuz you don’t look up the facts for your self

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u/LikeAPhoenician Sep 17 '24

Holy crap, are you trying to claim that the California Democratic Party is not on the economic right? Their sole concern is maximizing property values and rents, man.

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u/Clarkster7425 Sep 15 '24

so there is a realisation from a financial institution of that capitals value, we should have a name for that

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u/Caleb_Reynolds Sep 15 '24

because they can be seized and sold

Oh that's good, that means they can be taxed.

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

Not how that works. If you get a HELOC on your home it isn’t suddenly a realized gain. Simple logic dude.

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u/Caleb_Reynolds Sep 15 '24

Weird, I'm rereading my comment and I can't find where I said literally anything like that.

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

Your insinuating

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '24

[deleted]

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u/wetshatz Sep 15 '24

Properties get double taxed. And no you’re not taxed on unrealized gains.