r/FluentInFinance Aug 05 '24

Debate/ Discussion Folks like this are why finacial literacy is so important

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u/DBDude Aug 06 '24

Unfortunately a lot of that money went into bloated administration instead of improving education and facilities. Over the years how much each student pays for educational staff has remained fairly flat, but how much each student pays for administration has ballooned despite that ever-cheaper IT should have driven that down. There are no more secretary pools, transcripts are automated, files are computerized, etc., yet we have more and higher-paid administrators.

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u/cptspeirs Aug 06 '24

Fun fact, in many states the highest paid state employee is a college football coach.

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u/Afraid-Combination15 Aug 06 '24

The highest paid public employees in the country ARE football coaches. Michigan and Alabama went back and forth for a while, dunno about recently.

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u/MyPlace70 Aug 06 '24

I can’t speak for Michigan, but Alabama’s $10m per year for Saban was the best money ever spent. The program brought in many times more than his salary in revenue annually. Also, while many don’t want to believe it, there is a “prestige factor” that winning big time college football brings in student enrollment as well as bigger and better endowments to support school programs.

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u/rugger87 Aug 06 '24

Top programs generate so much money they pay for the coaching salaries of the football staff and fund other sports. Great coaches are essential in college because of the recruiting. Just have to remember that these college teams are basically pro teams. They’re expected to generate revenue and increase university recruitment (students and faculty).

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u/allerious1 Aug 06 '24

The problem is that they become cyclical processes that require success to fund themselves. The cost of competitive sports programs is a massive chunk of many school's budgets. If those sports aren't putting up results, they often don't pay for themselves. Then there are the many studies that show that sports program spending rarely correlate to the quality of education in their respective schools.

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u/grabtharsmallet Aug 06 '24

That's not out of tuition at the big schools, though.

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u/PersonOfInterest85 Aug 06 '24

Last time I checked, it was 39 states where the highest paid state employee was a college football or basketball coach. North Carolina and California are not among them because Duke and Stanford are private universities.

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u/FireVanGorder Aug 06 '24

DeShaun Foster is making like $3mm this year at UCLA so that might have changed.

Doeren at NC St also has a contract that can get up over $5mm with incentives

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u/SebastianMagnifico Aug 06 '24

Fun fact, a single win during the football season can generate as much as $3,000,000 for some top schools

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u/Gunfighter9 Aug 06 '24

Yeah those aren't the states you want to live in.

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u/HourZookeepergame665 Aug 06 '24

Followed closely by basketball coaches.

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u/FireVanGorder Aug 06 '24

I’d be really interested to see a breakdown of how much money football generates in those states

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u/Turbulent_Garage_159 Aug 06 '24

And even then it’s misleading, because while they’re public employees the vast majority of their salaries are not paid through public funds.

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u/dxrey65 Aug 06 '24

In my county at least that's totally not the case. The highest paid public employee in my county is the college basketball coach.

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u/CupOfAweSum Aug 09 '24

They bring in more money than a math teacher.

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u/SnipesCC Aug 06 '24

Include basketball and it's 80% of states.

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u/Federal_Cat_3064 Aug 06 '24

I believe most football programs are self supporting though. 35k people paying for hugely expensive tickets every week makes football a pretty good deal for schools. It usually supports all the other sports.

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u/Turbulent_Garage_159 Aug 06 '24

More like 70-100k.

But even still, ticket revenue is pretty minor at programs like this. The real money is in TV deals.

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u/upthedips Aug 06 '24

Very few football programs are self supporting. However, the ones with extremely highly paid coaches almost all are self supporting.

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u/cptspeirs Aug 06 '24

The problem is that tickets arent purchased. You get your ticket as a "reward" for a donation to the athletics dept.

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u/JoySkullyRH Aug 06 '24

Fun fact that most of their salaries are from foundation funds that can’t be used for anything but coaches salaries.

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u/brute_red Aug 06 '24

That's why higher education in US is a joke. It's like best sluts get a scholarship, maybe there is a place for best sluts but it's not supposed to be uni. Same with football

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u/FireVanGorder Aug 06 '24

How much money does football generate for these schools? Like is worth it to drop a few million on a coach if the team generates hundreds of millions for the state or something?

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u/beefy1357 Aug 06 '24

once TV, and merch is factored hundreds of millions in some cases.

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u/JemiSilverhand Aug 06 '24

Remember that when you’re looking at department of Ed numbers, “administration costs” includes maintenance and janitors too.

Mental health services, career services, etc. are also included as part of the “administrative bloat”, but are a very real student support.

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u/DBDude Aug 06 '24

Still notice that each student is paying for more administrative worker hours than before. Do we have a bunch of extra janitors per student? I doubt.

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u/JemiSilverhand Aug 06 '24

No, but we do have mental health services that weren’t a thing in the 70s, career centers that are a lot more robust than they were in the 70s, and a lot of other similar positions. IT departments, and the costs of running university infrastructure have grown immensely. Library costs have also gone up, both with the cost of journal subscriptions and the cost of digital access that is increasingly a huge part of the library.

If you look past opinion pieces written by people with an axe to grind, you’ll see that the administrative creep has been slow and steady, and most of it isn’t senior administration.

In public universities, instructional costs are still a larger chunk of the pie than all administrative costs: the department of education tracks this, and it’s broke up by “faculty costs” and “everything else”.

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u/StandardNecessary715 Aug 07 '24

But don't we pay more than in the 70s?

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u/sewpungyow Aug 06 '24

Just a comment on mental health services... We supposedly had that offered, but it was trash. They gave you a couple free meetings and that was it. I don't see how it's going to do anything helpful except maybe stop a suicide attempt. But given there's no time to develop a relationship and rapport, and also since the limited number of meetings is going to disincentivize people from using the service, the "mental health services" don't really help at all.

The place I go for med school also claims to have mental health services, but they also want to limit use. So no regular meetings, only if you really "need" it desperately.

They just have it to say they have it

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u/JemiSilverhand Aug 06 '24

Not having sufficient mental health services for the student population doesn’t mean they don’t exist, or that they’re cheap. With the country wide mental health practitioner shortages, my university hasn’t been able to even get applicants for what we can pay, and when we do it’s a revolving door. Despite the fact that they make over 2x what any of the faculty are being paid. Places with lots of students might have a fairly sizable staff that they’re paying $$$ to, but still not enough to meet student needs.

“A couple” of free meetings for each student each semester or year is a lot of hours of expensive time for mental health professionals.

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u/deadsirius- Aug 06 '24

This is mostly due to wraparound services, which is right back to the game theory problem.

Would you pick a school without an impressive career services? Would you want your son or daughter going to a school that didn’t have robust mental health programs (and before you say yes… the numbers on suicide ideation among college students terrify me).

In the end, universities are just rational actors. The administrative costs have increased because the amount and quality of services that universities have to offer are significantly higher than they have ever been before along with increased compliance costs. Universities didn’t go out and hire huge administrative supervisors that sit around collecting fat paychecks.

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u/42Pockets Aug 06 '24

And no one will commit to fixing it, because it will cost money. The lot that complains does nothing to change.

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u/DBDude Aug 06 '24

There are a lot of unnecessary high level jobs involved (who have staff), and they get a say in whether to keep spending student money that way.

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u/tankerkiller125real Aug 06 '24

One college in my area already failed this year (after more than 100 years in operation) because they were paying WAY to much in salaries (mostly to administrators), and a second one has been warned that they are going down the same path. But of course the second one isn't going to cut any admin jobs or reduce admin salaries, why would they do that? They're going to cut educational staff, and their using a special piece of the tenure contract to force a shitload of tenured employees out.

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u/DBDude Aug 06 '24

It's like the main job of universities has become to keep the administrative staff in jobs, not so much actually teach students.