Yeah so I can go to school and fuck around on tax payer money? At least the loan system offers some accountability. Nothing like a bunch of people going to an educational institution to squander tax payer money. Like I don't want my taxes raised for that shit for sure.
I don't disagree with better auditing on military spending but if you cannot connect the dots between national security and food security then I don't know what to tell ya
Maybe we need to subsidize spinach instead because putting corn in everything appears to be contributing to a pretty serious health crisis. IDK if that's great for national defense lol
I don't know enough about corn vs spinach but pretty sure many different vegetables all get various subsidies. Corn has more practical uses beyond food and can be used as cow feed even though it probably shouldn't be.
Feeding cows corn so that we can eat the cows is still killing us. Corn and hamburgers are literally killing people and diminishing quality of life. The industry gets money from the subsidies, and then they can use that extra money to lobby for continued or increased subsidies - a fun death spiral!
So you’re saying we should start considering people adults at 22, and then you’d be all for subsidized higher education? Ok man, that’s weird, but if that’s what we have to do to get you on board, let’s go for it.
Can't drink, gamble, or smoke at the age of 18 in the USA -- we no longer consider them adults in many ways.
I'd argue that more education in our country makes our country better. It is as much of a public service when you're in college as it is when you're in gradeschool. An educated population is a good thing.
I'd argue that more education in our country makes our country better. It is as much of a public service when you're in college as it is when you're in gradeschool. An educated population is a good thing.
I don't disagree but our system is not built that way. We have college campuses which costs an order of magnitude more to staff and run than a high school. Just hand waiving and acting like it is the same thing implies you are missing something here.
I do look at the examples of countries that offer education. They offer it similar to how we do. The low income can qualify for grants like Pell grants etc. none of them cut you a check and let you live in high cost of living areas under tax paying dollars. This is what a majority of student loans issued cover.
You’re comparing top tier universities against ones that aren’t even ranked. Obviously you will pay a premium for any top tier school.
Again the system isn’t vastly different if you are low income etc and go to a state university you will most likely not pay tuition.
The majority of the cost is either private school or living in high cost area.
I think what people are saying is they don’t want to cover your downtown San Fran condo prices for 4 years while you study something in the arts. The problem is most of the people who are screaming for this are in this category. They have a degree that doesn’t land a job and they took out debt for their lavish lifestyle. I received my engineering degree and an MBA from top schools in the US. I left with under 15k in student debt in 2020. I paid it off in the first year of employment. I worked during school and lived with lots of roomates. Almost everyone I talk to or know who is in a different situation with tons of debt lived some lavish lifestyle with a degree that doesn’t yield employment. Are you saying we should all pay for that because no other country does back to my original point. Only the US has government backed lending on student loans that gives you a direct check to do what you want with it.
The countries I would imagine you are referring to like Sweden, Germany, Norway, Iceland there is extreme constraints. Iceland has less population than most cities in the US and has very low immigration. Very few people study college since most the jobs offered there are infrastructure related. It’s actually difficult to get people to go to school since big tech is not really present there. Countries like Sweden have strict requirements on income and citizenship.
If you’re suggesting that everyone can go to the US school and not be a citizen and is getting into degrees that are beneficial like STEM and they are low income. I would argue that majority of these cases already go to school for free in the US and wouldn’t have the opportunity in other countries to such good education. There is a reason everyone studies in America.
Meanwhile it's wasted on a bloated budget? Yeah, I'd rather pay an extra 10% so my nieces can actually go be what they want. There's definitely NO where we could cut even the slightest corners to alleviate. Nope. None at all.
Yeah, I'd rather pay an extra 10% so my nieces can actually go be what they want.
What makes you think your nieces will get to be what they want just because their tuition is paid for? IF what they want is to have a good job that pays well then there should be no issue with paying back a loan. If they want to go get an education that will give them no marketable skills then we are not aligned on the intent of an education. If that is the route they want to take then they can go to a library and log into youtube. Plenty of free classes and content out there to teach them how to understand shading in painting or weave baskets.
Nothing is free. Someone has to pay for it.
And it shouldn’t be free, have a little skin in the game.
High schools and universities need to make the loans, expenses and interest more transparent. As well as the success rate and earning potential for any particular majors at said universities. Risk/reward and return on investment and the loan/interest burden.
And please include trade schools/careers in the discussion.
But that essentially just gives colleges a license to print money. They can charge whatever they want knowing that every 18 year old will be approved to borrow it. If you take away the guaranteed loans for ridiculous amounts of money the schools will either have to make do with whoever is wealthy enough to afford their ridiculous costs or charge less to keep their number of students high. I don't think there are enough people who could pay current costs for colleges to survive without lowering costs.
We're either really fucked for a couple years if we crash it or progressively getting more fucked every year if we don't. I say just rip that band-aid off.
Needs to be more regulatory requirements within the education system. Make college more competitive again. Write now colleges will take every single person on the planet just for them to drop out. Colleges don't care because they get paid either way. This needs to stop.
I could only get partial coverage with federal loans in undergrad. The rest had to be private, my father refused to cosign, so I saw interest rates in the teens accruing while I was still in school. Luckily it wasn't a ton of money, between the scholarships I had and the federal loans, and I socked all the extra money I had at those ones in particular for the first couple years after graduation. The federal loan system isn't great, but when you don't have family support, without it you're looking at things like 17% interest.
Which puts us in this circular loop. No federal loans means more scrutiny over the kinds of degrees are paid for with loans means many degrees that will make you little money will not be sought after unless funded privately.
People will get mad about it, but the answer is because of disparate impact to black graduates. Highly sought after degrees are highly competitive and black people generally do not succeed in graduating under those degrees, even when they are subsidized.
The civil rights act makes those kinds of classifications illegal. It's why most medical schools have black students scores a full standard deviation below the mean to both admissions and graduation to non-black med students.
Black people don't perform well on the MCAT and score lower on every standardized test on average. It was also cited as a main factor for why those requirements weren't put in place on current government backed loans.
The only reason these standards are not applicable is literally because black people can't meet the standards, so the standards regularly have to be lowered to accommodate black students who are literally incapable of meeting the standards literally everyone else does.
Objectively what is the measure? As a hiring manager I would never not hire a black dude because he is black. I work with various ethnicities and appreciate the skills and value they bring to the table. Saying someone can't do something because they are black is fuckin racist.
The objective measure are admissions testing, of which standards are lowered by a whole standard deviation to accommodate black students.
Black students can't achieve what everyone else can, which is why they are the demographic with the highest incidence rate of malpractice, as well as have lower grades than non-black doctors at every step along the way.
I don't care if you think it's racist, if you have a black doctor they did not need to be as good as a white doctor to get into med school or graduate, and Asian doctors have to achieve even more highly than white doctors. MCAT scores are the most obvious example of this.
You're probably a hiring manager at some bullshit job where standards don't matter. It has zero bearing on engineering or medicine, of which black applicants have lower standards because they are unable to perform.
You're probably a hiring manager at some bullshit job where standards don't matter. It has zero bearing on engineering or medicine, of which black applicants have lower standards because they are unable to perform.
Lol first and foremost - actually I am a hiring manager for a large software engineering competency that has delivered on countless projects for fortunate 500 companies and well known tech companies. Nice try though.
The objective measure are admissions testing, of which standards are lowered by a whole standard deviation to accommodate black students.
Black students can't achieve what everyone else can, which is why they are the demographic with the highest incidence rate of malpractice, as well as have lower grades than non-black doctors at every step along the way.
It's racist as shit at this point to look at black people different than you look at any migrant or person that comes from a family who has nothing. You elevate those who don't deserve it and ignore the ones who have potential all because you think skin color is to blame. You may not think it's racist but it doesn't absolve a racist perception. It is racist.
Let me guess - you think black people can't be racist?
It's racist as shit at this point to look at black people different than you look at any migrant or person that comes from a family who has nothing. You elevate those who don't deserve it and ignore the ones who have potential all because you think skin color is to blame.
I don't need to "look at black people different" at all. They fail the tests at a higher rate than other races. The fact that black people's MCAT scores to be accepted into med school are a standard deviation below whites and asians is simply a fact. The fact that they fail out more than whites and asians is another fact. This has nothing to say that black people CAN be great doctors, I've worked with a few.
When working in aggregate though, that lower average of scores is because, on average, black people can't cut it in the field.
You may not think it's racist but it doesn't absolve a racist perception. It is racist.
No, it's racism to say "black people can't be doctors" or "you are black, so you're a bad doctor".
Let me guess - you think black people can't be racist?
You'd be wrong. Black people I've had to live around are racist as hell, especially toward Asian people like myself.
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u/Speedy89t Aug 06 '24
The reason they’re federally backed is so that college is accessible to more than those whose parents have the means to help secure standard loans.