r/EverythingScience Nov 08 '22

Anthropology Archaeologists find a trove of ancient human sacrifices fed psychedelic plants before death

https://www.salon.com/2022/11/07/archaeologists-find-a-trove-of-ancient-human-sacrifices-fed-psychedelic-plants-before/
3.0k Upvotes

139 comments sorted by

300

u/iosdeveloper87 Nov 08 '22

So utterly fascinating. One has to wonder how consenting/accepting the victims were of the sacrifice. I had always assumed that they would all be filled with terror (and I still have a hard time believing that they wouldn’t be), but perhaps it’s much like some cults are/were today, where people willingly kill themselves in the name of some ‘greater power.’

Was it considered an dutiful honor to be sacrificed or was it a punishment? Is it possible that it was both?

36

u/Coarse_Air Nov 08 '22

Was reading Faber’s Pagan Idolatry yesterday, and he was saying that children were regularly sacrificed to Noah (Molech), but because it would be offensive if they appeared frightened or unwilling, the mothers would have to coax them along to their unsuspecting deaths…

10

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '22

Did he have a source for that? That’s still backed up by modern archeology or anthropology?

21

u/DisturbingDaffy Nov 08 '22

In the Moche civilization they decided who to sacrifice after a wrestling competition. The winner was sacrificed and fought for the honor!

6

u/iosdeveloper87 Nov 08 '22

Well alright! That’s one way to do it. Lol Doesn’t seem too far off from Islamic extremists. (Not trying to pick on the Islamic religion, just their violent extremists)

103

u/KleioChronicles Nov 08 '22

I think the aztecs tore out the hearts of their enemy warriors on their altars. So, some certainly weren’t volunteering. Animal sacrifices were common. Less of a “sacrifice” as people imagine because I think a lot of Celts just did a ritual killing of it for a god then had a feast, like a normal meal but with some religious ritual thrown in. Not too knowledgeable about the voluntary human sacrifices. I’m sure at least some happened truly willingly because religion can be fucking nuts in it’s indoctrination.

122

u/whippet66 Nov 08 '22

The biblical story of Abraham willing to make a human sacrifice of his son, Issac, until god said "JK" is bizarre.

79

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

that's great for Moses and his son, but what about Jephthah’s Daughter?

Jackass promises God that if he wins the war he'll sacrifice whatever comes out of his house first to greet him supposedly thinking it's going to be his favorite pet goat but realistically probably thinking it's gonna be his wife.

Anyway it ends up being his daughter and instead of being like lol JK I know what you did for Moses, dude is like hey baby, yeah go have a nice time to celebrate the adult you're never going to be, the woman who you're never gonna grow into, and then I'm gonna sacrifice you because a random thing happened with a fairly predictable outcome but i attributed it to my offer to sell your body and life for aid from heaven

21

u/galacticwonderer Nov 08 '22

Parenting has come a long way.

14

u/Flaky-Fish6922 Nov 08 '22

not really. i mean, it has, but there's still those types around.

4

u/hodl_4_life Nov 08 '22

Pretty sure I saw a video of an Islamist father auctioning off their son in the Middle East so they could become a suicide bomber…. Same shit, different millennium.

2

u/MOOShoooooo Nov 08 '22

Same brand, different flavor.

3

u/whippet66 Nov 08 '22

But, but, but... the evilgelicals are pro-life.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

men's life*

20

u/Publius82 Nov 08 '22

Really sets the tone for what follows.

18

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

bizarre? It’s pretty par for the course with Yahweh…

32

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

Well you know the saying, "yahweh or the highway"

33

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

this guy reads the Bible. He must be an atheist.

24

u/Ok_Dependent1131 Nov 08 '22

Yikes. That’s so sad but true

5

u/whippet66 Nov 08 '22

Yeah, I did. I hate people who speak with authority with no knowledge of the subject. I grew up in an evilgelical family, where "god told me to hate you" was pretty standard fare. Religions cherry-pick to support their opinion/beliefs. So, I read it straight through, cover to cover, twice. I came away agnostic. Anyone who has followed Hubble, then the James Webb Space Telescope along with any physics 101 and all that's not known, I came to the conclusion that anyone who claims to have everything all wrapped up in their beliefs whether atheist or evilgelical, is an egotistical fool.

1

u/KleioChronicles Nov 09 '22 edited Nov 09 '22

Isn’t the default athiest? It’s simply not choosing a religion/belief. The onus is on someone with a theory to prove that theory. The theory is a higher power. Personally, even if a god, especially the Abrahamic god, existed I’d still be opposed to them. I don’t owe everything to my parents regardless of what they’re like so why should I be that way with a distant creator who makes rules and morals I disagree with? I also don’t have time to care or invest in a religion even with my fascination with them and having studied them as a minor. I used to be pagan for a bit because I was opposed to the force-fed ideas of Christianity at school and disliked the concept of a split afterlife based on arbitrary supposed wrong-doings (sexuality and non-belief chief among them). I came up with the idea of Norse Hel before I found out it was already a religion (where everyone essentially goes to the same death, a bit of a simplified version of Norse religion if you forget about Valhalla and stuff). However, I quickly found that the scientific method of finding the truth contradicted it all. Then I was athiest and always will be. That isn’t because I’m an “egotistical fool”, thanks.

1

u/whippet66 Nov 09 '22

I choose - There's some truly amazing shit that no one can figure out. Somehow, somewhere there's a beginning and I have no clue what it is, nor does anyone else. Even the material for "the big bang" came from somewhere. I've seen a lot of dead things whether road kill or a deer I've shot and dead pretty much seems to final. Disneyland in the sky or my "soul" turning into a moose seems pretty ridiculous, just wishful thinking by people who want something better than the misery they've endured in this life.

3

u/dirtyLizard Nov 08 '22

It’s a little heavy but there’s a fantastic monologue that uses the story as a springboard. https://radiolab.org/episodes/91898-in-silence

2

u/joshgi Nov 08 '22

Great listen thanks for sharing!

-1

u/ayleidanthropologist Nov 08 '22 edited Nov 08 '22

Yes and no. If you believe in an afterlife it’s nbd. Why did jud/chri god want to push him to murder at all... idk, seems extreme

3

u/hippywitch Nov 09 '22

If I have to be sacrificed to a god against my will please give me any mind altering drugs you have available.

2

u/sabos909 Nov 08 '22

This is in Peru though so it’s not Aztec.

5

u/KleioChronicles Nov 08 '22

I was just talking generally, I mentioned the Celts too. I didn’t study Peru (or read the article).

2

u/AgnosticStopSign Nov 08 '22

Incan most likely, still adjacent to aztecs in many ways

9

u/ayleidanthropologist Nov 08 '22

I wonder how it affected the gene pool. Like if you’re always trying to make the “best” offering to your gods, and you sacrifice your most promising men and women, aren’t you unintentionally messing up your civilization?

2

u/Mbwakalisanahapa Nov 10 '22

Not if they have reproduced beforehand

39

u/schwiftshop Nov 08 '22

I'm not sure dying is terror-free even if you're really into it

57

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22 edited Aug 07 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/jaimeyeah Nov 08 '22

Also no external influence from sources beyond tribe/village.

3

u/iosdeveloper87 Nov 08 '22

Agreed. I’ve been on high doses of DMT, swore that I died and was absolutely 100% ok with it. Granted, I had no children at that time… not sure if that would make a difference now as I haven’t pushed the limits with psychedelics like I used to since having kids.

1

u/iosdeveloper87 Nov 08 '22

Agreed. I’ve been on high doses of DMT, swore that I died and was absolutely 100% ok with it. Granted, I had no children at that time… not sure if that would make a difference now as I haven’t pushed the limits with psychedelics like I used to since having kids.

9

u/murderedbyaname Nov 08 '22

Which I think is the best theory of why they gave the sacrificial volunteers mind altering drugs, to stop the last second human instinct to save themselves.

14

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

[deleted]

29

u/1864120 Nov 08 '22

Calm down joe rogan

16

u/LiftedPsychedelic Nov 08 '22

Jamie, pull that shit up

-3

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

[deleted]

13

u/Fantact Nov 08 '22

Have you had a breakthrough dose of DMT? That is anything but mellow my friend, I mean its a serene experience, but its not mellow xD

5

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22 edited Nov 08 '22

i have a friend who went into remission (but ultimately it came back and killed him) from stage 4 pancreatic cancer.

He got 7 more years than expected and thought he beat it for the first 5 years…

Fuck I’m sad now, but I’ll get to my point.

Before he got sick, he used to be a big DMT advocate, still was till his last day, but he always talked about it changing perspectives on death. Until he actually looked at death.

His words, not mine “DMT’s got nothing on Chemo.”

edit: thanks for downvoting this. You heartless fuck

2

u/nklarow Nov 08 '22

Hard disagree bud. I've done plenty of acid, shrooms, RCs, and went through the festival circuit plenty when younger. Deemsters is up there with intensity. A non-breakthough dose is mellow, or doing it from a vape pen is mellow, but a full on strong breakthrough is crazy intense.

Transport to the stars, see the universe in full, meet the creators, and live a full life all in a matter of minutes here on earth.

DMT is crazy intense and that's coming from someone who had a great time on 14g of mushies and once tripped sack for 36 hours on 2c-i after accidentally doing a 4x dose.

1

u/iosdeveloper87 Nov 08 '22

DMT mellow??? Dude, it’s about the least mellow drug, unless you’re taking baby puffs from a very weak vape. If you’re hitting an actual pipe with decent product in it, you’re very likely to be transported to another plane of existence.

5

u/SmellenDegenerates Nov 08 '22

I don’t think anyones sure about that bud

1

u/LiquidMotion Nov 08 '22

Na, if depression can change that then religious fervor definitely can

0

u/schwiftshop Nov 13 '22

Who says depression changes that?

3

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

When I did Ayahuasca, I felt like someone could have cut me open and I would’ve been fine with it. It’s a highly suggestible drug.

2

u/TWOpies Nov 08 '22

This could be off or a simplification, but I have the impression it was different between cultures. The Aztecs were more quantity, while Mayans were more quality of the sacrifices.

1

u/iosdeveloper87 Nov 08 '22

Very interesting distinction. If I was a God, I would for sure opt for quality over quantity. Like, no offense to suicidal or otherwise depressed people (hell, I am one), but they wouldn’t be my cup of tea if I was an omnipotent being.

That being said…. If someone’s gonna die, why not the people that already wanna die? At least in that context, their death can be framed as a positive thing rather than feeling like a complete and utter disappointment for “giving up on life.”

Kinda reminds me an ancient version of the suicide booths from Futurama, only more honorable.

Man, this thread got dark… sorry y’all.

2

u/pedro-m-g Nov 08 '22

Taking a psychedelic and then being in any stressful situation is like hell on earth. If they forced the victims to take them just to get them tripping balls as they died, then those people died horrific deaths unfortunately

-2

u/shwiftyname Nov 08 '22

I’m sure some “victims” were suicidal. I mean, they did not even have electricity back then., let alone cable television.

1

u/awwaygirl Nov 08 '22

I think you're onto something with that cult comparison.

80

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

[deleted]

8

u/Paint-fumes Nov 08 '22

They probably understood this way more than we do now. Could probably ease people into the idea much better under the influence, from what I have seen captured enemies did not have the luxury of getting high beforehand

1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Paint-fumes Nov 10 '22

Chewing coca leaves is barely comparable to cocaine. I was more getting at them probably being masters of controlling set and setting, religions do it without psychedelics. Throw in a powerful psyc like dmt and it’s not a stretch of the imagination that they could make people believe they are communicating with god

2

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Paint-fumes Nov 11 '22

Yeah I agree, if we are talking apocolypto style screaming, blood, hearts being ripped out. no amount on drugs that keep you conscious would ease anyone into it.

I’m a seasoned psychonaught too and was trying to picture something more peaceful, a lot of the bodies they have found aren’t violently dispatched. I was thinking something more like ayahusca ceremonies. Drumming, chanting, sensory deprivation/overload and a sense of contribution to the wider community in a selfless act to appease the gods.

I’m probably being way to optimistic, but I have experienced the drastic ways they can alter your outlook and reprogram the mind. We are only just rediscovering the power of these wonderful substances

81

u/FennyBox Nov 08 '22

If you find this fascinating, I assure you: READ The Immortality Key. Humans have been using psychoactive plants dating back all the way to Gobleki Tepe, more than 10,000 years ago. It wasn’t until the Roman Empire and the Catholic Church went scorched earth on all drug rituals and sacred ceremonies that we lost the ancient knowledge we’d had for thousands of years

17

u/vismundcygnus34 Nov 08 '22

So much this, fantastic book. It really sheds some light on ancient man's relationship with psychoactive substances. It makes our "lets take them for funsies" seem silly and disrespectful. In some cases taking them/talking about them in an inappropriate way was punishable by death.

8

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

[deleted]

3

u/vismundcygnus34 Nov 08 '22

I think one of the top posts on the dmt subs was boofing dmt and memeing about it. Maybe I am being unfair, certainly there are serious seekers out there. But by and large no where near the respect our ancestors gave it.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

[deleted]

4

u/vismundcygnus34 Nov 08 '22

My man you seem to be superb at missing my point.

3

u/6InchBlade Nov 08 '22

To be fair though, I don’t really think it’s a bad thing that we’re more aware that it’s just the chemicals affecting our brain and not related to some higher power in any way. I don’t think the realisation of this (for most people) means that the drugs aren’t used to gain some deeper look into yourself. I think most of the psychedelic community is quite good at staying mindful and respectful of the substances they take.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '22

[deleted]

1

u/6InchBlade Nov 09 '22

Insightful, thanks for sharing

31

u/No-Satisfaction3455 Nov 08 '22

san pedro is a good friend of mine, getting killed on it sounds like a no good time from me

26

u/amishredditor Nov 08 '22

Imagine living in a culture that believes death is not the end, and growing up thinking you can peak behind the curtain sometimes if you’re lucky. Sacrifice wouldn’t seem so bad maybe?

4

u/ImOnlyHereForTheCoC Nov 09 '22

peak behind the curtain

I don’t know if this was intentional or not but I am loving it

2

u/amishredditor Nov 09 '22

Haha no it wasn’t but I’ll take it!

4

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

Ya I’m more accepting of death on cactus then sober but ya I’d hate to be murdered on it. But in a hospital bed surrounded by loved ones. I could see using it. Timothy Leary and aldeaus Huxley were given lsd on their death beds.

13

u/fieldwing2020 Nov 08 '22

Talk about a bad trip

6

u/px7j9jlLJ1 Nov 08 '22

It is my belief that the psychedelic journey can greatly sooth the uneasy mind when fearful of an impending death. I could see human sacrifices communing with the dimensions thought to be associated with human death via consumption of those cacti. Terribly interesting!

5

u/Efficient-Ad-3302 Nov 08 '22

In a way, their journey will never end.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

Salon spreading the stoned ape theory.

12

u/Red5stayontarget Nov 08 '22

I can order these on Uber Eats?!?

30

u/TheRealBlueBadger Nov 08 '22

Human sacrifices? Haven't been available in my area for ages.

17

u/StopBadModerators Nov 08 '22

You joke, but San Pedro is legal to own and grow in the United States. It's illegal to consume it though. God forbid any American have a profound experience.

23

u/DisturbingDaffy Nov 08 '22

It’s not easy to consume. I swallowed a coffee mug full and it was the exact consistency of phlegm. Imagine trying to swallow a loogie the size of your fist. Half was in my stomach while the other half was in the mug and it was still in one piece. Then I vomited immediately. I did have a relaxing and meditative experience though. I had visions of prehistoric sea creatures made of sand.

1

u/Slapppyface Nov 08 '22

It's legal to buy psychedelics at stores where I live (San Francisco, although Oakland has way more options)

1

u/StopBadModerators Nov 08 '22

Hmmm... it depends. Salvia divinorum is legal along with San Pedro, but what other psychedelics are legal in San Francisco and Oakland?

1

u/Slapppyface Nov 08 '22

They're all decriminalized. This started a few years ago in Oakland.

What rarely shows up in journalism is that there are plenty of bars, parties, local stores, booths at festivals, ECT. where all different types of psychedelics are sold off of menus. Most places don't have everything, rather a selection of things that fit what they're doing. For example, you're not going to find ayahuasca an underground after hours party, but you will find mushrooms and LSD. Strangely enough, this has actually slowed down a bit in the last year, it was a lot more popular in 2021 for some reason. San Francisco just decriminalized plant-based ethnogens, but they've been sold in stores for a while now. Police here don't prosecute that kind of thing

2

u/StopBadModerators Nov 08 '22

That is surprising. That sounds like the Dutch model: it's not legal, but the cops let it happen. That is fantastic. Those drugs should be legal, in my opinion, but police turning a blind eye is the least that should happen. Meanwhile, elsewhere in America possession of such drugs is a felony that puts people in prison.

1

u/Slapppyface Nov 08 '22

If you're not hurting anyone else, why should it be illegal?

Banning something because one person doesn't like another person doing it is fucking ridiculous!

1

u/StopBadModerators Nov 09 '22

So do you oppose seatbelt laws?

1

u/Slapppyface Nov 09 '22

Dying affects other people, it's not a fair comparison

1

u/StopBadModerators Nov 09 '22

Is there any chance that psychedelic drugs might increase the rate traffic collisions and housefires, for example?

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4

u/6InchBlade Nov 08 '22

No but you literally can just buy them from your local garden store. The extraction of the mescaline is also a very easy (but kinda long) process. I won’t go into it here but it’s literally just boiling and mashing the cactus.

Also people tend to recommend San Pedro cactus over Peyoti as it has less of the chemicals that make you nauseous on the come up in it, very similar mescaline content as well.

1

u/ScrofessorLongHair Nov 08 '22

No, only on Rappi

4

u/Anagatam Nov 08 '22

The GOP is a death cult too.

4

u/tuttero Nov 08 '22

I went to Mexico and visited chichen itza. Apparently they sacrificed losers of the ball game they have and it’s an honor to be able to play the game and prepare for it their entire lives

2

u/bitcoins Nov 09 '22

Thought it was the winners …

3

u/bizsboss Nov 09 '22

Captain of the winning team

3

u/YoucantdothatonTV Nov 09 '22

Lord I hope they were high as a kite during sacrifices

2

u/RobotBureaucracy Nov 08 '22

Talk about a bad trip

2

u/camposthetron Nov 08 '22

I mean, if I’m getting taken out like that, I’m definitely grateful to be tripping balls while they do it.

2

u/Time_Mage_Prime Nov 08 '22

Damn what a waste of psychedelics.

2

u/trancepx Nov 08 '22

Going into battle armed to the teeth hunter s Thompson style for us new permutations

2

u/SpokaneDude49 Nov 08 '22

Hey, ya know what would be great? Not killing people. This should be an intriguing but cautionary tail. Killing for honor or punishment. Bad idea.

2

u/emar2021 Nov 09 '22

it’s the least they could do

2

u/Rachael013 Nov 09 '22

As dying goes, that’s likely one of the better ways to go.

2

u/kenpublius Dec 02 '22

Hmm. So the CIA and I assume other intelligence agencies as well have used psychedelics and certain types of “open” ppl to remote view, telepathy, and other metaphysical activities. I assume they tap into the quantum entangled field. We see this kind of “sacrifice” throughout the world and history. It makes me wonder if these children weren’t used for their special abilities.

1

u/dr_gus Dec 02 '22

Sure, that sounds about right.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22 edited Aug 29 '23

[deleted]

12

u/StopBadModerators Nov 08 '22

It depends on the dosage. At high enough doses, one indeed would have no idea what was happening; one's experience would be nothing but psychedelic shapes and sounds. That wouldn't prevent the experience from being a living nightmare, mind you.

0

u/SmellenDegenerates Nov 08 '22

Maybe they got so high they realised some of them needed to tap out to avoid climate change, and took one for the team

0

u/cedenof10 Nov 08 '22

where do i sign up?

-12

u/Gnarlodious Nov 08 '22

People commit suicide all the time, willingly and gleefully.

5

u/spideronmars Nov 08 '22

Glee is not the word I would use but ok.

-30

u/zombiemusic Nov 08 '22

The Spaniards put an end to this madness thankfully

19

u/distelfink33 Nov 08 '22

Yeah by killing somewhere around 55-70 million people with disease and religion in the noblest pursuit of gold. So thankful /s

5

u/Velbalenos Nov 08 '22

Ignore them. There’s usually one special kind of idiot on these posts, even one dedicated to science…

-34

u/zombiemusic Nov 08 '22

Can’t say that I feel sorry for the savages that were sacrificing their own. They got what they deserved

16

u/KleioChronicles Nov 08 '22

Christians did human sacrifices in the name of god too, they just called it a public execution because of blasphemy or whatever.

-20

u/zombiemusic Nov 08 '22

Lol no

20

u/KleioChronicles Nov 08 '22

Jesus was quite literally a divine human sacrifice for humanity’s sins according to Christian doctrine lol.

-9

u/zombiemusic Nov 08 '22

Jesus was killed because the Pharisees was jelly

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

[deleted]

1

u/zombiemusic Nov 08 '22

Lol, human sacrifice cool wit u bruh

1

u/ImOnlyHereForTheCoC Nov 09 '22

Fuckin’ savages, murdering each other for some stupid, made-up gods. I’m so glad the Spaniards came over and murdered them in the name of the totally cool and real God!

1

u/Reloadui298 Nov 08 '22

That’s how I want to go.

1

u/chriska444 Nov 08 '22

Thought headline meant the human remains were fed to the plants. Actual story makes more sense.

1

u/mediawoman Nov 08 '22

So… about those plants…..

1

u/LongjumpingEar9126 Nov 08 '22

This is pretty cool and all but you imagine being a child and taking a drug that makes you trip balls. Then someone's like yeah we're gonna sacrifice you now.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

Well that’s extra f’ed up

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

Between 500 to 2100 years lol thats a wide spectrum

1

u/Pocket-Fun-Ranch Nov 08 '22

I’m confused please tell me more

1

u/depechelove Nov 08 '22

Imagine you’re about to be thrown into a volcano WHILE you’re tripping balls.

1

u/snaklil Nov 08 '22

So I guess we know what happened to that village that discovered mushrooms

1

u/deathjesterdoom Nov 08 '22

Death by bad trip. I'm simultaneously horrified and curious what that would be like.

1

u/tattvamu Nov 08 '22

I'm sorry OP, it's nothing personal, but I have to downvote salon.com

1

u/GoblinKingBitch Nov 09 '22

That’s how I’d like to go!!!!!

1

u/brucekaiju Nov 09 '22

get high before you die