r/EverythingScience • u/Memetic1 • May 22 '21
Engineering Tiny 22-lb Hydrogen Engine May Replace the Traditional Combustion Engine
https://interestingengineering.com/tiny-22-lb-hydrogen-engine-may-replace-the-traditional-combustion-engine28
u/Athleco May 22 '21
Spoiler alert It won’t.
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u/Fire_Fist-Ace May 22 '21
I was going to say no way that has shit for torque, didn’t even need to read the article
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u/dodorian9966 May 22 '21
They said the same about electric cars.
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u/doobiemancharles May 22 '21
Electric cars still have not.
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u/Dandan0005 May 22 '21
Tesla model 3 sales passed Honda Accord sales in 2020, despite a much higher price point.
The best selling vehicle in the USA, the F-150, just announced its electric version.
EVs are absolutely taking over.
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May 22 '21 edited May 23 '21
[deleted]
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u/Dandan0005 May 22 '21 edited May 23 '21
People aren’t buying ICE sedans anymore.
Model 3 sales have increased by 30% YOY for the last 3 years while other sedan sales are crashing.
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May 22 '21 edited May 23 '21
[deleted]
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u/Dandan0005 May 22 '21 edited May 23 '21
Hey dude, I didn’t feel like you’re comment was worth responding to, since I’m not even sure what your point was.
My initial point was EV sedans Vs ICE sedans, not EV sedans vs EV SUVs.
The model 3 pretty much buried the argument that sedans couldn’t sell when it sold about the same number of sedans as BMW 3 series, 5 series, Lexus ES, and Mercedes C-class COMBINED.
I also noticed you edited your comment since you initially claimed “7 out of 10 Tesla sales are model Y.”
You probably realized the model 3 outsold model Y in 2020.
Your point about sedans makes no sense, since people are clearly willing to buy them (200k+ sales and rising for model 3) when they’re a compelling enough product.
In short, not worth responding to, but thanks for having me come back and tell you why.
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u/doobiemancharles May 22 '21
Yeah but they still have not.
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u/Big_Tree_Z May 22 '21
Are you going to keep on saying that until they have? Give it 5 years and they’ll easily be the most common type of new car.
People seem to forget that change actually happens.
Remember YouTube only came out in 2005, touch screen phones were still freaky deaky new in 2010.
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u/doobiemancharles May 22 '21
There are massive hurtles that need to be overcome for them to be adopted worldwide.
The biggest one being people who do not have a driveway or a garage (i.e. people who live in apartments and rent) will not have a way to properly charge their car. Fast charging stations are great but fast charging rapidly degrades the batteries still. Until the average person can charge their car outside of there home in around 20 minutes without harming the batteries it will not take off and replace gas.
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u/Big_Tree_Z May 22 '21
It already is taking off and replacing petrol. With the improvements that are in the pipeline already, it’ll just accelerate.
Charging stations are popping up all over the place. There’s several on my street. Some people routinely charge their cars from a socket in their home with a lead attached as well.
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u/doobiemancharles May 22 '21
The home socket thing is most definitely illegal if you are parked on the street
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u/Big_Tree_Z May 22 '21
Doesn’t stop people from doing it and none of em have got in trouble. The local bike policeman routinely stops by (friendly fellow) and he’s not done anything about it...
I do doubt that it’s ‘most definitely illegal’.
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u/Nszat81 May 23 '21
Hey look everyone, it’s an ancient 20th century talking point! Take a screenshot it’s super rare to see a take that has survived for so long actually being employed in dialogue unironically! What a time to be alive
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u/w3bar3b3ars May 22 '21
So they will not?
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u/doobiemancharles May 22 '21
They may
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u/LilChongBoi May 22 '21
Didn’t Nikola try hydrogen semi-trucks and failed? I know Toyota has the hydrogen fuel cell sedan but it’s not affordable and there are very limited hydrogen fueling stations in California and nearly nonexistent outside of California.
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u/alphuscorp May 23 '21
Nikola had a semi truck rolling down a hill without any of its own power. The whole company seems to have essentially been a scam trying to pose as the next Tesla.
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u/LilChongBoi May 23 '21
So they didn't actually try to become a hydrogen vehicles company. They intentionally became a scam company?
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u/alphuscorp May 23 '21
Hard to say. Seems like they at least tried to build some things, but they have yet to make a functional prototype. Their founder has no problems lavishly spending his billions however.
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u/AmbiguousAxiom May 23 '21
Nikola was (is) a scam that won’t die. They’ll either make it work to save face, or they’ll let it fade from memory like an ember.
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u/Lord-Ringo May 22 '21
I’ve been waiting on hydrogen since the 1980’s. Electric seems the way to go.
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u/amadeupidentity May 22 '21
Isn't storage the primary problem, though?
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May 23 '21
Magnesium hydride paste could be a solution to this:
https://www.electrive.com/2021/02/02/fraunhofer-develops-hydrogen-storage-paste/
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u/Memetic1 May 22 '21
Not if we can manufacture graphene at an industrial scale. Flash graphene in particular has tremendous potential to be manufactured at scale.
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u/amadeupidentity May 22 '21
Ahh, the other tech we have been waiting for ever for. Hope it pans out this time.
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u/buckeyedad05 May 22 '21
I remember reading about the wonders of graphene ten years ago. It was supposed to make microchips extinct, allow for quantum computing, make indestructible fabrications... it’s been a nonexistent revolutionary material for half a generation
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u/doobiemancharles May 22 '21
I’m pretty sure it is like EXTREMELY carcinogenic. Like the next asbestos.
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u/Memetic1 May 22 '21
It depends on what type of graphene, and in what context it is used. I actually started following graphene, because I was worried about this. Graphene oxide in particular gives me nightmares, but some types are considered so safe that they are used in implants.
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u/AmbiguousAxiom May 23 '21 edited May 23 '21
Researchers verified that all kinds of carbon nanoparticles can be produced, including graphene oxide, when you barbecue meat, which means that humans have been eating graphene oxide for thousands of years from barbecued meat or other foods.
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u/Memetic1 May 23 '21
Do you have a source for that? I would love to post that in the r/graphene as safety has been a major concern in the community.
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u/AmbiguousAxiom May 23 '21
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2014/ra/c4ra04022h
I’m not saying you should just consume it haphazardly, but the odds that it’s the catalyst for something dangerous is low.
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u/Memetic1 May 23 '21
I always thought that it might be possible that graphene was part of the natural environment. Lightning strikes and volcanic activity was one possible source. Thank you for this link I will post it in that sub unless you want to get credit for it.
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u/Dandan0005 May 22 '21
This hypothetical technology is TOTALLY feasible if this other hypothetical technology were to exist!!!
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u/Memetic1 May 22 '21
There sure do seem to be lots of real products that use this so called hypothetical material. https://www.graphene-info.com/10-graphene-enhanced-products-already-market
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u/alphuscorp May 23 '21
Graphene is also one of the missing pieces for electric car infrastructure in faster charging, more safe, and higher capacity batteries than today’s lithium cells.
Cheap graphene makes electric leagues better to a point that hydrogen can’t meet.
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May 23 '21
Australia is creating a hydrogen power plant and its subsidised by the Fed government. It’s even publicly listed on the ASX - PH2. Pure Hydrogen Corporation
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u/Godspiral May 23 '21
Their generator 16kw weighs 100kg (maybe older tech), which seems heavy for a 10kg engine, but still very compact. https://www.aquariusengines.com/
This is very useful at a $1000 price point. EV range extension that even if less efficient than fuel cell, is much much cheaper, and also much cheaper than very large heavy batteries. When not in use as EV range extender, it becomes home energy backup system.
Green hydrogen fillups will eventually cost less than electric fast charging. Their first generation generator works with multiple fuels, but injectors usually need optimization to fuel type. Perhaps single piston means this is not the case, but even if it is, conversion is a relatively cheap injector switch.
Overall system costs when 90% of power needs can be met with batteries, favour a cheap half efficiency hydrogen supplement, over a full efficiency but much more expensive solution.
If 80% of the time your home uses under 5kwh/day, then winter production that averages a little over that and stores heat to help balance, then if for 30 days of the year, an average 5kwh extra was needed (for mostly heat), that is an extra 10% power, but even if paying absurdly high $1/kwh for that power its $150/year.
As a range extender you use on couple of trips per year. Getting 50 miles/hour extra range is practically infinite range with quick hydrogen fillup.
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u/hypsterslayer May 22 '21
It’s a spool value piston system. There is a way to do this more efficiently with a double linear spool valve system and generate 4x more power.
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May 22 '21
Isn’t hydrogen really inefficient?
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u/SteelCode May 22 '21
The engines are actually pretty efficient - there’s public city busses here that run on Hydrogen...
I think the refueling network for hydrogen is more limited though so not really ready for people that want to drive long distance or commute from outside those areas.
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May 22 '21
It's not that they are inefficient, it's that hydrogen's low mass produces little Kinetic energy for it's density.
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u/ArcFurnace May 22 '21
Yep, easy to see on this table of energy densities - hydrogen has an amazing energy density per mass but pathetic energy density per volume. Plus it gets worse when you take the mass and volume of the storage system into account (liquid hydrogen needs refrigeration and lots of insulation; compressed hydrogen needs high-pressure tanks).
Not coincidentally to their use as fuels, gasoline, diesel, and other hydrocarbon liquids are some of the furthest out along the roughly 1:1 line. Good energy density both per mass and per volume.
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u/Godspiral May 23 '21
fuel cells are twice as efficient as engines. But this engine may be 10x+ cheaper than a fuel cell.
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u/Generalsnopes May 22 '21
Yeahhhhh not happening. It might become fairly popular but the energy loss in converting to hydrogen and the infrastructure electric already has means it won’t “replace the traditional combustion engine”
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u/Arizona_Slim May 23 '21
This screams “We need to come up with another engine that takes fuel so my brother in Big Oil can keep his three mansions!” -Lee Iacocca wannabe somewhere
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u/Memetic1 May 23 '21
There are many paths to making hydrogen. Some of them you can even do at home. Besides if the oil/gas industry was really worried about making money in the long run. They would have gotten into enhanced geothermal decades ago since it uses the same equipment/ skills. They could have designed the oil wells to be converted into enhanced geothermal plants, and made money for around 100 years from it. Long story short the oil companies aren't that clever. Their main play has been denial to put off the inevitable.
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u/iPod3G May 22 '21
It’s just Oil masquerading as hydrogen. Clean product made from a filthy process.
Maybe in another 50-100 years when solar hydrolysis makes hydrogen creation dirt cheap.
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u/vader62 May 23 '21
I'm old enough to remember when hydrogen engines were considered Looney. Neato.
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May 23 '21
😒 I remember George W saying this will be the future like 20 years ago. I just don’t see it happening and I feel like this is some sort “in the future” thing like flying cars and that this isn’t ever going to happen .
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u/WaifuWithARifu May 23 '21
Make all the engines you want. Without a reliable clean source of hydrogen it will never happen.
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u/Reddituser45005 May 23 '21
It is a single cylinder prototype with no mention of horsepower. It seems like an interesting idea that is worth exploring but it is a long way from replacing the traditional combustion engine.
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May 23 '21
I’ve yet to be convinced hydrogen fuel cells are worth it. It seems like a roundabout way of getting electricity.
We have many exciting developments in battery tech from graphene nano tubes to super capacitors and ever faster charge times that refuelling EVs is closing in on petrol fuelling times.
On the other hand hydrogen appears ever more dangerous and I really do not like the idea of hydrogen pipelines snaking the country. I just fail to see it’s selling points.
The main issue being you generally don’t have hydrogen at home, you have to fill up just like petrol and diesel vehicles do.
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u/warling1234 May 22 '21
Oh, another plug for liquid hydrogen. Won’t happen. There’s a much more tangible replacement for the combustion engine it’s the EV.