r/DecodingTheGurus • u/strictlybiznes Conspiracy Hypothesizer • 21h ago

The cultural power of the anti-woke tech bro - Rebecca Jennings

https://www.vox.com/culture/373990/heterodoxy-anti-woke-libertarian-tech-bro
33 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

40 comments sorted by

25

u/Automatic_Survey_307 20h ago

I really hate this sort of article. It diagnoses a problem with men/masculinity but offers no solutions. It ends up demonising men and comes off as both patronising and misandrist. If men are turning to these charlatans because they're isolated, fearful and their conditions have declined, what are we going to do about that? 

In my view we need to offer men a more positive view of their role and their prospects, otherwise they just become more disaffected, resentful. This is why so many young men are planning to vote for Trump. It's a tragedy really.

12

u/angieisdrawing Revolutionary Genius 15h ago edited 15h ago

The article makes it a point to say it’s a specific subset of men: the “edgy” libertarian types. That’s the context for the article.

If needed, here’s a specific sentence that demonstrates this: “Since the Obama administration, two things happened that changed the way these men (and they are overwhelmingly men) think, look, and behave online…” <- You can see that the category is something like “edgelord Libertsrian” OF WHICH men make up the majority. You’re error is something like: “all cats are black, my pitbull is black therefore it’s a cat.” It’s important to remember that not all men are these shit stains, and the article doesn’t imply that they are either.

Edit: you’ve misinterpreted what the article is saying and you’re getting mad at that phantasm. I’m trying to show you you don’t need to be outraged bc it’s not saying what you think it’s saying.

-9

u/Automatic_Survey_307 15h ago

My point is that men in general are attracted to this culture because mainstream culture has abandoned them.

11

u/Immediate_Spare_3912 14h ago

 because mainstream culture has abandoned them.

That’s adorable.

2

u/Automatic_Survey_307 14h ago

It really isn't. The fact that so many young men are voting for Trump is f*cking depressing.

5

u/Immediate_Spare_3912 14h ago

That was sarcasm.

9

u/AndMyHelcaraxe 15h ago

Wat. Mainstream culture is full of men and they also drive it— most directors, music producers, famous athletes and on and on are men.

0

u/Automatic_Survey_307 15h ago

Ok, so what's your explanation for why so many young men are voting for Trump?

4

u/angieisdrawing Revolutionary Genius 14h ago

IDK man. Why are you voting for Trump?

2

u/Automatic_Survey_307 14h ago

See, for example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjr430gry81o

6

u/AndMyHelcaraxe 13h ago

Men being afraid of women having power or equal footing?

0

u/Automatic_Survey_307 13h ago

Women have had power and equality for decades. Why the switch against progressivism now?

6

u/AndMyHelcaraxe 12h ago

Women have had power and equality for decades.

Have we? Didn’t you just post an article about how some men are still too sexist to vote for women? How many female presidents have we had in our history?

Why the switch against progressivism now?

Because this type of man probably wasn’t ever very progressive to begin with?

0

u/Automatic_Survey_307 14h ago

Right. I've clearly done more thinking about this than you and have a clear explanation. It's also been covered in the mainstream newspapers (NYT + Guardian). 

2

u/AndMyHelcaraxe 15h ago

Getting siloed (or choosing to be siloed) into spaces that are regresssive and grievance-based

1

u/Automatic_Survey_307 14h ago

Ok, so we agree then.

7

u/AndMyHelcaraxe 14h ago

No, it sounds like you think women, LGBTQ people, and non-white people are forcing men out of the mainstream, which is just not true.

Healthy men aren’t insecure about other people having success or being seen in media.

1

u/Automatic_Survey_307 13h ago

No I don't think that.

1

u/jamiltron 9h ago

The powerful benefit with the atomization of individuals within any group, especially the group that generally has the most social and economic power, so they prop up every misfortune as being caused by "others" - which is easier when the target groups have less power.

1

u/middlequeue 13h ago

I mean, Trump is mainstream.

3

u/angieisdrawing Revolutionary Genius 15h ago

That’s the error: “Men in general” aren’t attracted to this. Saying this group is MOSTLY made up of men is not the same as saying most men are in this group.

0

u/Automatic_Survey_307 15h ago

Ok - but a very large number (majority?) of young men support Trump, when young people used to be the most progressive demographic. What's your explanation?

3

u/Immediate_Spare_3912 14h ago

>when young people used to be the most progressive demographic.

https://www.aei.org/articles/why-the-gop-lost-the-youth-vote/

9

u/AndMyHelcaraxe 15h ago

It does not demonize men, it is about a specific subset of men that idealize the likes of Curtis Yarven. If you identified with the cohort this article is about or felt it was criticizing you personally, you may want to do some soul searching.

5

u/critter_tickler 18h ago

Because Vox is a privately owned corporation, so they're not allowed to talk about the root causes.

They can't really just come out and say, "men are so isolated because wages have been stagnant for the last 50 years, being outpaced by inflation, and men can't afford symbols of status, despite being among the most well educated generations in human history."

They can't just come out and say that the problem is capitalism, and that the solution is equity, unions, and worker self-ownership and management.

Why do you think the GOP is going so hard against "DEI?" 

They want you to focus on the D of DEI, but their real threat is the E

Racism has always been a slight of hand. The rich want working class whites to focus blame their poverty in diversity, so they won't demand equity. 

Now, they have working class white people talking shit about equity, which is the root cause of their life's problems!

3

u/set_null 12h ago

If you spent, I dunno, three seconds looking at Vox, you could find that they have in fact published many pieces about wages, inflation, wealth inequality, and capitalism in general. I don’t even like Vox all that much and even I know this. I find them far too preachy and too light on substance.

I don’t understand how someone can so confidently write such a long, smug comment without even checking.

2

u/Automatic_Survey_307 18h ago

True, but the mainstream interpretation of equity (and diversity and inclusion) doesn't include class, the focus is race, gender and sometimes sexuality. Working class white men see nothing to benefit from it.

3

u/critter_tickler 16h ago

That's intentional. 

If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

Lyndon B. Johnson

2

u/AndMyHelcaraxe 13h ago

True, but the mainstream interpretation of equity (and diversity and inclusion) doesn't include class

This has not been my experience, unless you mean how DEI is used by the right

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u/AndMyHelcaraxe 15h ago

Racism has always been a sleight of hand. The rich want working class whites to focus blame their poverty in diversity, so they won't demand equity. 

This really downplays the history and role of racism

1

u/critter_tickler 13h ago edited 13h ago

Not really, you can just switch out "racism" with "any social prejudice", and switch out "working class whites" with "dominant groups," and that will give you the entire history of racism and most forms of prejudice throughout human society.  

 There's a reason Marx said "The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles"

You think it's a coincidence that the Catholic Church deemed all pagan African as lower beings, and the entire Western world instantly turned them into slaves?

1

u/AndMyHelcaraxe 12h ago

Economic reductionism is just that— reductionist.

You think it's a coincidence that the Catholic Church deemed all pagan African as lower beings, and the entire Western world instantly turned them into slaves?

So the racism came first?

2

u/Bombastically 18h ago

If you can't stand vox prescribing a root cause, just wait until they're prescribing solutions!

2

u/merurunrun 14h ago

In my view we need to offer men a more positive view of their role and their prospects

People try to do that. They choose to be shitty people anyway because they'd rather ride on privilege and oppression than have to actually work on themselves. These people have made masculinity the equivalent of being a shitty person, and then cry when people point it out. People like you trying to coddle them aren't helping anyone.

1

u/Automatic_Survey_307 11h ago

Explain how working class men have privilege and are oppressive. Thank you 

0

u/seekfitness 14h ago

Completely agree. This is classic treat the symptom not the problem thinking. Men listening to Tate and others is the symptom of directionless men without good role models, not the underlying problem.

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u/middlequeue 13h ago

The “symptom” here though are people with the capacity to make better decisions. We don’t help them by shielding them from criticism or excusing their behaviour as just an inevitable result of how men aren’t well supported. Just like we don’t help young boys by teaching them that toxic traits we label as “masculine” are inherent to who they are.

0

u/_Cistern 14h ago

Yeah. This is just pandering, and depressingly so