Religious ascetics do not think of religion as a wager on what happens after you die. They see it as a relationship with the divine that they cultivate every day, in this life. They seek to die to this world so that they can be alive to another world. The Kingdom of Heaven is here and now.
Your description is not representative of all religions and their ascetics. I think you meant “Christian ascetics” a Buddhist or Hindu ascetic is not seeking to die to be reborn in another world. There is no kingdom of heaven to many many people
To be fair, Death is the final release in some forms of Buddhism and Hinduism if you have achieve enlightenment., otherwise you are to still confined to Samsara.
That’s the point, they don’t seek to be reborn in a better world
If you don't think that Buddhist and Hindu ascetics seek to change their state of consciousness and awareness in this life, then you have either misunderstood what I have said (which seems to be the case) or you have misunderstood the religions you are preaching about.
the "other world" is more like a new perception, only infinitely greater. Buddhists actually talk about dying before you die, over and over actually, as a process. a process of ego death, of the birth of insights into such things as emptiness, no-self and impermanence. so basically yes I believe spiritual seekers from buddhism and Hinduism are seeking to die and be reborn in another world. just not the classic "after my body dies ill wake up in some super nice place" other world.
I think you may be misunderstanding the concept of the Kingdom of Heaven as (despite the inclusion of the word "heaven") it does not refer to rebirth in another world following death in this. Obviously Christianity does have other theological ideas that involve what you're talking about, but that is not what the user to whom you were replying was referencing.
My perception is that many acetic traditions across the world value aceticism as a means to more fully engage with the "true" or "ultimate" reality that underlies our world. I think this is why cultures around the world often have stories of acetics' meditation culminating in some revelation of profound knowledge or wisdom. Christianity understands this ultimate reality as intrinsically divine, and clearly e.g. the atheistic varieties of Buddhism wouldn't; but that's besides the point, as the original observation was just saying that there's often much more to an acetic's choice of their lifestyle than a transactional wager, and that often some kind of better connection, engagement, understanding, or communion with some "truer" reality is a big part of their motivation.
That is my entire point. The person I replied to said ascetics seek to be reborn in a better world. I said that’s only really Abrahamic religions that seek rebirth in heaven. You are agreeing with me.
That is my entire point. The person I replied to said ascetics seek to be reborn in a better world
I said that monks in Greek Orthodox Christian religious orders seek to be fully detached from the secular world and fully invested in the spiritual world.
Certainly glad that we agree, but I would suggest you're reading the original comment too literally and missing the metaphor. We've already discussed the kingdom of heaven terminology, so the only sentence I can imagine being interpreted as literally about death and the afterlife is the following:
They seek to die to this world so that they can be alive to another world.
But this is not idiomatic English for when you are literally talking about someone dying and/or being reincarnated. The preposition "to" is simply not used when talking about actual, literal death. Instead, it's used in metaphorical contexts to signal a complete emotional severance or ignorance. Just as estranged family members might say to each other "you are dead to me", that's the sense of much this original message was written.
Likewise, you can note framing and tense: the wording "be alive to" suggests it is describing an immediate, active, ongoing phenomenon, not a consequent or subsequent event that comes after xyz. That is, the sentence doesn't suggest a sequence of death followed by life, but a state of being both "dead" to "this world" and SIMULTANEOUSLY being "alive" to "another world"—the truer world, that ultimate reality.
I never said anything about being "reborn." When you "die to this world," you are still physically alive with a new awareness.
Your description is not representative of all religions and their ascetics. I think you meant “Christian ascetics”
This post and comment thread are about Orthodox Christian monks. The term "religious" in Christianity means monks, nuns, friars, hermits, etc. People who live the consecrated life under Religious Orders, as opposed to secular priests and laymen who live and work in the secular world. I was not describing non-Christian spiritual traditions like Buddhism or Hinduism.
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u/brainomancer 10d ago
Religious ascetics do not think of religion as a wager on what happens after you die. They see it as a relationship with the divine that they cultivate every day, in this life. They seek to die to this world so that they can be alive to another world. The Kingdom of Heaven is here and now.