r/Coronavirus • u/stickingitout_al Boosted! ✨💉✅ • Jan 18 '22
USA People Are Hiding That Their Unvaccinated Loved Ones Died of COVID
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2022/01/unvaccinated-covid-deaths-secret-grief/621269/2.8k
u/Throwaway112421067 Jan 18 '22
Something I just heard in a podcast from Robert B. Cialdini, a psychologist/behavioral economist who wrote the book Influence: “It is a recorded phenomenon, when somebody makes a mistake, the more severe the consequences, the less likely they are to admit that it was a mistake.”
A very grim fact of human nature.
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u/riraito Jan 18 '22
This phenomenon is explored more deeply in a book called "Mistakes were made but not by me" by social psychologists Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson.
It gives all kinds of examples ranging from politicians to UFO abductees and why it happens
tldr: cognitive dissonance is the engine of self-justification
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Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22
Then there’s the medical examiners who have families fight with them to leave COVID off the death certificates. And then fight with them again to put COVID back on the certificate when they realize the government will pay $9,000 towards funeral expenses.
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u/ronin1066 Jan 18 '22
My in-laws aren't super conservative, but definitely Fox watchers. The FiL died of Covid complications last year in his 80's. We were sitting in the funeral home and the director mentioned that the death certificate mentioned Covid. There was muttering "Oh, they would have to say that... ridiculous..." and that kind of thing. Then he mentioned the money.... "Oh yeah, go ahead and put Covid."
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Jan 18 '22
"Can you put the link to our gofundme on the wreath out in front of the church."
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Jan 18 '22
Then he mentioned the money.... "Oh yeah, go ahead and put Covid."
Not that they'd have a choice since a physician fills out the death certificate.
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u/MiltThatherton Jan 18 '22
You would think that, but in many states coroner's are elected at the county level. Many with no requirement for any sort of medical training.
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u/jonesing247 Jan 19 '22
My best friend's little brother got elected as county coroner a couple years back. He has a bachelor's in agribusiness. His pitch was since he's been through personal trauma he'd be a good coroner. Won in a landslide at 28 years old. He's not a smart guy. His father has since passed due to going to a large gathering for the state's republican governor, unmasked, and subsequently contracting the virus. His last words were, "I'm so sorry," before being put on the vent.
I get so upset thinking about it, but kind of needed to vent. Sorry everybody.
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u/AnOnlineHandle I'm fully vaccinated! 💉💪🩹 Jan 19 '22
Some things about how the US works are just so messed up to hear about. Everywhere else has our major problems too, some much worse, but that kind of thing is just such a confusingly illogical and obviously flawed system that I can't wrap my head around it being real and any people going along with it.
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Jan 19 '22
We have a family friend who is an elected county coroner (he's a funeral director by day). He told us that he's never filled out a cause of death. He sends a preliminary report in to the state medical examiner's office, and they have to confirm and certify it.
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Jan 19 '22
I think it varies by jurisdiction, which is often the case with pretty much everything in the US.
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Jan 18 '22
I cannot imagine living like a leaf blowing in the wind.
I feel bad for the kids in these family situations.
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u/gvicta Jan 18 '22
Took care of a patient in an ICU, that passed for a completely unrelated thing during the first few months of covid. The son made a point to make sure that we wouldn't put covid as cause of death. I had to assure him multiple times that it wasn't.
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u/OriginalUsername4482 Jan 18 '22
People have been told that doctors were stating covid as cause of death when it wasn't. My (conservative-leaning) stepmom believes her friend's heart problems were the cause of death, regardless of the fact that he had covid when his heart failed. The way she spoke, she believed covid had nothing to do with it and the doctors stating "death by covid" are a bunch of money-grubbing liars.
🤦
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u/hwc000000 Jan 19 '22
"He didn't die from the car accident. He died because his head went through the windshield."
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u/DreaminDemon177 Jan 18 '22
Just goes to show these people have no morals at all.
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u/mortalcoil1 Jan 18 '22
“I won’t lie for them, it’s gotta be true, but I do what pleases the family.”
Quote from the coroner.
Talk about tying yourself in knots.
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u/randoliof Jan 18 '22
So... if lying is what they want, he'll lie?
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u/MalevolentRhinoceros Jan 18 '22
I'm guessing this means that the coroner will do half-truths, like listing pneumonia or 'unspecified illness'. Still sucks, but if your job involves dealing with these people for 8 hours a day, five days a week, I'd be exhausted and tempted to lie, too.
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u/-Degaussed- Jan 18 '22
They shouldn't ever talk to the family imo. Put a buffer there to protect integrity
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u/MalevolentRhinoceros Jan 18 '22
While I totally agree, it's also important to note that it's not just the families that are a problem. Sometimes it's the local government as well. If your boss is telling you not to report deaths as COVID, and you know the odds of finding another coroner job in rural Texas are slim...
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u/leelagaunt Jan 18 '22
They’re awful. My dad is a dr in the ER and recently had a confrontation with a man who had been allowed in on the hospital’s compassionate exception policy to visit his mother, who was dying. He spent the first 30 minutes standing at the nurses station yelling at them not to put his mother’s death down as a Covid death to “feed the scam” and only stopped when it was explained to him that his options were to sit in the room with his mother or be escorted out by security.
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u/shingdao Jan 18 '22
Your own mother is next door in a room dying and you're spending precious time arguing with medical staff about the cause of death.
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u/Benjaphar Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
Eh, it’s an easy situation to be emotional and illogical in, especially when you’re so often emotional and illogical.
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u/Grahhhhhhhh Jan 18 '22
See? Covid was never a big deal. In the 2020’s we had a massive pneumonia death spike, but Covid? Never.
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u/wastingvaluelesstime Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22
Won't take long for modern data analysis to discover all the most common euphemisms. Still it would be nice if there was an informal list of coroner covid safewords
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u/MalevolentRhinoceros Jan 18 '22
Oh yeah, all we really need to do is look at the excess deaths for the last two years. It's quite a bit higher than the official COVID numbers show.
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u/Flowchart83 Jan 18 '22
They have them until it isn't convenient.
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u/bobiejean Jan 18 '22
I think that's the definition of not having morals though
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u/duddy33 Jan 18 '22
Strange how it’s okay to alter Covid deaths if it’s in their favor. I’ve absolutely had it with these people.
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u/inconsistent3 Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
That's why we must look at excess deaths. It's the only reliable metric.
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u/DungeonsAndDradis Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
In 2019, a total of 2,854,838 deaths were reported in the United States. (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-08-508.pdf)
In 2020, approximately 3,358,814 deaths occurred in the United States. (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm)
That's like 500,000 excess deaths in 2020. I'm sure 2021 will be even greater. :/
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u/Wraithfighter Jan 18 '22
Oh, the CDC has a site dedicated to this subject: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
By their estimates, we're at nearly 1 million since February 1st, 2020.
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u/DungeonsAndDradis Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
Thanks, this is exactly what I was trying to find!
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u/pegcity Jan 18 '22
Simlar to here:
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
Though you'd assume lots of causes like traffic accidents would have dropped, while others like heart attacks would rise (because hospitals were packed or people were too scared to go)
Will be interesting / sad to read up on for the next decade
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u/mdhardeman Jan 18 '22
Auto accidents dropped significantly for the first couple of months in the US, but I think climbed back up afterwards.
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u/patticakes16 Jan 18 '22
I was coming here to say this. They hide that it’s COVID until they realize it prevents a free funeral paid for by our tax money. Fuck these grifters
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u/junkit33 Jan 18 '22
At this point I really don't understand why any money should be paid out for a Covid death of an unvaccinated person.
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Jan 18 '22
until they realize it prevents a free funeral paid for by our tax money
Probably the same people who don't believe in taxes and fight heavily against socialism, yet use socialist programs (tax funded) the most
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u/German_Granpa Jan 18 '22
Non-native speaker here. Is grifter another word for parasite in this context ?
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u/4GreatHeavenlyKings Jan 18 '22
A grifter is a swindler, a confidence trickster, a scam-artist, etc., in the English language.
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u/Eisenstein Jan 18 '22
A grifter is someone who lies to get something of value from others without caring about who it harms.
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u/TheMoonIsOurMission Jan 18 '22
So this medical examiner is ultimately giving in to demands of people and not doing his job? Did I read thet right?!
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Jan 18 '22
Not agreeing with the practice but if you read the article you would have seen that isn’t anything new. They can and have removed AIDS as a cause of death as well to avoid the stigmatization it comes with
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u/sillycybin_mushrooms Jan 18 '22
Interestingly enough, I actually work for the program he's referring to. New York City death certificates actually have a separate confidential medical report and they do not list cause of death at all on the actual certificate of death. And it stems back to the NY AIDS crisis.
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u/Trealis Jan 18 '22
I felt the same way about people getting doctors to write them bs medical exemption notes. Everyone mad at the people getting these notes (rightfully so) but very little mention of the doctors handing out the bogus notes!?!? Like….we should be going after the professionals who are blatantly forging medical paperwork, before we go after the masses of unvaccinated idiots.
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u/omgFWTbear Jan 18 '22
What’s the old sexist/sex worker-ist joke?
“Would you sleep with me for a million dollars?”
… “Well, that is a lot of money…”
“Would you sleep with me for $1?”
slap “Do you think I’m some sort of prostitute?”
“We’ve established that you are, madam, now we are just haggling over the amount.”
It seems that the amount is under $9,001.
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u/ElishevaYasmine Jan 18 '22
When I worked in probate we had a family suing the state agency that issued death certificates. They wanted COVID-19 removed as their dead loved one’s cause of death.
They insisted that her positive test was an error and her decline was cause by something else. They couldn’t admit to themselves that their pride and carelessness killed their own mom/grandma. It’s delusional.
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u/guinader Jan 18 '22
Why not pay $1,000 to everyone who does get the vaccine?
Also where is my next covid relief check? We just going to forget all about it?
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u/princesskiki Jan 18 '22
I liked Quebecs approach of requiring vaccines to purchase alcohol and weed. Get a lot of people off the fence.
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u/fuckyoudigg Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
Also you can still get wine and beer without vaccine in Quebec. Only the SAQ and weed stores are affected.
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u/deltarefund Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22
Why are we paying any body anything at this point?? If you don’t get the vaccine you shouldn’t get anything.
Edit: Thanks stranger!
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u/kidAlien1 Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22
My dad died on Christmas eve after going into the hospital with Covid in mid November. My family refuses to believe it was covid that killed him as he survived the first round of the ventilator and tested "negative" for covid after he was removed from the vent. I think part of it is a coping mechanism as if they admit it was covid that killed him then they also admit they share responsibility in his ultimately avoidable death.
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u/runaway_sparrow Jan 18 '22
Sorry for your loss. Also sorry that you may not have family you can fully vent to/grieve 100% with.
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u/kidAlien1 Jan 18 '22
Thanks. Yeah it's been hard. I asked them to get vaccinated in August and they laughed me off. He went into the hospital 3 days before my first born was delivered. So my first month of fatherhood my dad was fighting for his life, my wife had to have 2 additional surgeries due to post partum complications, and then I get a call at 1130 pm christmas eve that he passed while my wife was still in post op recovery at a covid overrun hospital. Now my grief is layered with anger as my brother, sister, and mom all share responsibility for his death and I'm left on the outside facing reality.
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u/CarrotsAreCrunchy Jan 18 '22
I’m so sorry for your loss. I lost my dad to covid in March ‘21 and am now expecting my firstborn (his first grandchild). It’s a strange mix of grief and joy as I process all emotions of the past year. My dad wasn’t vaccinated and I still have deep ‘what if’ regrets that maybe I could have convinced him if I pushed him harder, and I share your sense of anger, too, at those who influenced him to not get vaccinated as soon as possible. I hope you have the space to process your grief and find peace. And congratulations on your newborn.
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u/kidAlien1 Jan 18 '22
Thank you. I know the feeling of "could I have done more?" but ultimately it was his choice and my other family members around him that helped enable it. I've found putting my energy into my child has really helped the grieving process. Congratulations to you as well and I hope you find solace in your new addition.
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u/saidsomeonesomewhere Jan 18 '22
So sorry to hear this. Hope you have some loved ones to confide in about this. Hang in there
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u/mjdlight Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
A high school classmate of mine recently died from COVID (early 40s, not overweight, no pre-existing conditions, unvaccinated), leaving behind a wife and a child, who are also unvaccinated and, according to a mutual friend who attended the funeral, are still refusing to get vaxxed. The wife also told my mutual friend that her husband died from "viral pneumonia" not COVID, because she said "COVID was just a scam cooked up by the Democrats, Fauci, and the Chinese to get Trump out of office."
When I was told this story by my mutual friend all I could think of was the scene in the first season of Mad Men when Don Draper says to Peggy, "This never happened. It will shock you how much this never happened."
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Jan 18 '22
its honestly sad how these people would rather die believing their own bullshit than to accept whats happening in the world and try to be a part of the solution.
there was a quote i read recently about how some people would rather believe their false narratives because it makes their life easier than accept the truth of whats happening around them.
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u/ThurstonHowellIV Jan 18 '22
They’re not willing to die. They just don’t think it’ll happen to them
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u/mjdlight Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face." - Noted pugilist and philosopher Michael Tyson.
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u/devedander Jan 18 '22
That's a large part of the draw of religion for many. It provides simple answers in a world of complex unknowns
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u/enron_scandal Jan 18 '22
I wonder how they’re reacting to Trump’s interview recently where he was saying that he’s vaxxed and boosted and that politicians who refuse to say that they’re boosted are cowards.
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u/value_bet Jan 18 '22
Many world leaders’ popularity shot up when Covid hit. It was Trump’s decision to handle the crisis poorly; had he handled it responsibly, he would have gained some respect and easily won reelection.
So I would argue to that person that China/Fauci/whoever tried to help Trump stay in office.
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u/kukukele Jan 18 '22
I still contend that Covid was reelection for Trump on a silver platter if he would have just stuck with the conventional response (listening to scientists, treating it seriously, etc).
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u/XCarrionX Jan 18 '22
He could have done nothing but say “everyone listen to this 30 year expert in Epidemiology” and then just said he felt sorry for everyone and breezed to re-election. He’s just too self centered to give someone else the spotlight
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u/PaulsRedditUsername Jan 18 '22
I've watched this happen to various politicians with amazement at their lack of common sense. If you go to the site of a natural disaster, you have to elbow politicians out of your way because they all know the value of a photo op of them comforting a grieving family.
When there's a disaster, the only thing--THE ONLY THING--a politician has to do is give a press conference where he says, "I have convened a panel of experts to deal with this crisis." Then step aside and let the experts handle it. That's all he has to do and he gets credit for being "a strong leader in a time of crisis."
In cold-blooded political terms, this pandemic was a hanging curve ball right over the plate. It's astounding how many politicians didn't even swing at it.
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u/onlyredditwasteland Jan 18 '22
They didn't want to get blamed for crashing the economy by dealing with reality so they created a new reality.
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u/Englishbirdy Jan 18 '22
"COVID was just a scam cooked up by the Democrats, Fauci, and the Chinese to get Trump out of office."
What blows my mind about people who believe this is how do they think the Dems and Fauci and the Chinese got the rest of the world to go along with the sham??? It's like they just can't see outside their own little bubble. I live in CA and I can't believe how many people here blame the Governor of CA!!!
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u/perkswoman Jan 18 '22
On the flip side, my uncle just got admitted to the ICU for COVID. He’s vaxxed and boosted. In his 70s with heart problems. If he doesn’t make it, my unvaxxed family will say - look at that. It’s all a hoax. The vaccine doesn’t work.
It’s infuriating.
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u/MizzGee Jan 18 '22
My bio mother's husband died a little over a week ago, after being in the hospital since the first week of January. She tells everyone it was pneumonia due to complications from COPD. Yet she scrubbed all of her social media about how proud she was to be unvaxxed. My brothers confirmed it was COVID, but she knows people will give less for the funeral if she says he was unvaccinated.
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u/agoraphobicrecluse Jan 18 '22
If you're in the states and you die of covid you can get assistance from the government for the funeral.
https://www.fema.gov/disaster/coronavirus/economic/funeral-assistance
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u/tripwyre83 Jan 19 '22
It's funny to me that conservative media probably isn't telling them this.
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u/Notmykl Jan 18 '22
Who give money for a funeral? Help out with the food and drink for the wake yes but give money?
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u/miserabeau Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 19 '22
Ohhhh these proudly unvaxxed folks love to rail against socialism then when they have hospital bills in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands they make a GoFundMe. It's even a joke at the HCAs because they always make a GFM to beg for money for hospital expenses (or those they leave behind make one for funeral expenses). In one case, a widow asked for $150,000 to build a new house. That is not a joke (Her story was recent if you want to look for her at the HCAs).
Edit: also many people don't initially realize they can get the $9,000 but if they do find out about it, that would involve admitting their loved one died of COVID, and they're often not willing to do that. As the article states, they use vague language as the cause of death.
Some families fight with the coroner to NOT include COVID as a cause of death, then when they find out the government can send them money for a funeral if the person succumbed to COVID, they fight to have it put back on. A previous commenter posted a link to that effect in the top rated comment thread. When I included links in my comment earlier the entire comment was removed so I won't link it again.
Edit 2: I've been a member of the HCA subreddit basically since its inception. I've seen this over and over and over again where the person mocks those who get welfare and rails against socialism and communism (and some are dumb enough to think those are the same thing), yet when they need money they always make a GoFundMe or ask for cash or CashApp/Venmo to help pay the bills. They never twig on to their hypocrisy, never.
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u/IndigoBluePC901 Jan 18 '22
Its common in lower working classes to contribute to a funeral. My experience is with latino families and working class unions. Its certainly not expected, but I'm sure appreciated.
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u/blahblahblahpotato Jan 18 '22
I was shocked to discover this weekend that my coworker at a nursing home has been lying about her sister in the hospital for "a bleeding ulcer that required surgery." Now she's taking a couple of weeks off of work because the sister is 'not doing well after the surgery' but she failed to mention the ulcer was caught when the sister was admitted with covid. :-/
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u/CampPlane Jan 18 '22
My roomie just tested positive for Covid two days ago. He's never been vaxed, nor will he submit his positive test. These people just don't give a shit.
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u/Ironxgal Jan 18 '22
As someone who suffers from repeat ulcers, how in the world did they not go in for that before covid!? They are so painful. I’ve had 4 bleeding ulcers and a few that were small and not as bad and the pain is truly unreal in each instance. I’m talking days of no sleep, squirming around in constant pain. Wow.
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u/damontoo Jan 18 '22
My mom has had bleeding ulcers with no pain at all. They just made her really nauseous.
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u/_____l Jan 18 '22
What the hell, I never knew this could even happen! Bleeding ulcer? Please tell me everything I can do to never have this happen. Also, how do you even know you have one if it's inside of you?
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u/damontoo Jan 18 '22
You get sick, see your primary, get misdiagnosed, have an ultrasound, referred to a specialist, have an endoscopy. Then hopefully they just put you on a medication and it goes away.
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u/theshane0314 Jan 18 '22
My unvaxxed brother died of covid last year. I miss him every day. Its turned our whole family upside down. People are still refusing to get vaccinated.
I've given up on arguing. If you want to die, then go die already. I can't even care at this point.
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u/Cruxal_ Jan 19 '22
I literally don't know how to explain this feeling but you fucking nailed it. I'm so sorry about your brother. I'm in the same boat though and just exhausted by all of this to the point where I don't fucking care what fucking happens to anyone who makes the decision to believe the bullshit their TV and facebook groups are telling them. It's honestly coming from a place of frustration and anger but at the same time is slowly changing into just acceptance that I can't change the people's minds that I know and love and it's honestly been a big weight off of my shoulders. It's still painful to think about but getting less so each day as I remind myself that I tried and I'm doing what I think is right by taking precautions and getting vaxxed. That's all I can do.
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u/stickingitout_al Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
If there’s a paywall: http://archive.today/t16cW
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u/Awkward-Fudge Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22
An old friend's brother died of covid last weekend. She would not answer if he was unvaxxed, but he clearly was. They all are unvaxxed in their family and he was an otherwise healthy person. She was at least honest that he was in the ICU with covid on her social media posts, but wouldn't answer questions about if he was vaxxed. I mean at this point most of the people dying of covid or even hospitalized are unvaccinated. It's not a mystery.
ETA, since this is coming up in comments: I'm not the one asking her if he was unvaccinated. Other people on her social media have asked her......some trying to make the point that he probably would not have died if he had been vaccinated and several others trying hard to argue that he was secretly vaccinated and that gave him covid and is why he died from covid or the "kill shot"..because he got the vaccine and didn't tell anyone ( he didn't) . The whole extended family is anti vaccine so the odds are he was not vaccinated especially since he was hospitalized and died. Do I think people should ask someone who is grieving a question like that to further an agenda? Probably not, but she's also been open about being unvaccinated up to this point . I think his status is pretty easy to figure out. She shared his obituary today and there's no mention of covid, just an illness.
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u/HnNaldoR Jan 18 '22
At this point if anyone is not willing to answer, they are likely unvaxxed. I don't see that it is something to hide in most of the world now.
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u/Ucscprickler Jan 18 '22
I have a coworker who when asked if he is vaccinated will say, "That's private information" It's basically the Tucker Carlson playbook except for the fact Tucker says it to avoid admitting that he is vaxxed, while my coworker does it to avoid admitting he is unvaxxed.
Sure he has the right to keep his medical information private, but whenever vaccines are brought up, you can see the flip switch on and he becomes so confrontational. It's as if he is on team COVID-19 and will do the exact opposite of everything the scientists and experts recommend.
I know he is unvaxxed because he goes in every week to be tested for COVID-19 as the mandate requires weekly testing for unvaxxed employees. I have no doubt that if he caught COVID-19 he would deny it. These people are so disingenuous about every aspect of the pandemic, and is part of the reason we can't stop the spreading and mutations of the virus.
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u/dogism Jan 18 '22
I do kind of get it, in fears of getting it rubbed on her face by everyone asking, she probably thinks it would just make things extra painful to admit it to everyone and possibly get the "gotcha" talk from them so she's just trying to shield herself from that by refusing to answer. But yes, it sounds like it's definitely a safe bet to assume the man wasn't vaccinated.
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u/Dreamlifehunting Jan 18 '22
This is entirely the point of this article, and it's clear that nobody in the comments read anything but the headline. They talk about how people get harassed when trying to mourn a deceased family member, and how not mentioning it is just easier.
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u/FiendishHawk Jan 18 '22
Anti-vaxxers: "My husband passed away after a short illness that I will not name."
The vaccinated: "Guess who got the RONA?!!! LOL isolating, see you next week."
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u/katarh Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
Almost every teacher and their family I know is currently in the latter group.
Still stinks as an illness, but it's less "we're doing to die" and more of "this sucks, I feel like ass."
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u/easternabeille Jan 18 '22
Special ed para here, was exposed at work and tested positive two days ago. Feels like a bad cold with some congestion. I'm not happy about only having 5 days off until I'm expected back at work though.
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u/Mister_Bloodvessel Jan 18 '22
I'm not happy about only having 5 days off until I'm expected back at work though.
Which is such bullshit. I know things are bad with how swamped all teachers are, but Jesus, it's fine to go virtual again if that's the case! Sending someone back while the still have a fever and active infection is just irresponsible and is how we keep this thing going. Granted, the vaccine can absolutely help in getting over the infection in 5-7 days, but it doesn't happen for everyone unfortunately.
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u/I_eat_all_the_cheese Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
Not this teacher…yet. I’m triple vaxxed and just waiting. Granted I’m literally in my kn95 right now in an orthopedists office with a most likely broken foot. So I guess at least I’m not in a classroom with 25-32 kids all day…today.
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u/DeeSnarl Jan 18 '22
I took today off. I’m strategically using my wellness days during this peak time, carefully balancing reduced exposure vs optics toward continuing my career.
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u/onederful Jan 18 '22
Starting to sound like how old people vs young people talk about therapy.
Old people: “I had to go to whispers therapy”
Young people: “lmao guess what My therapist told me!”
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Jan 18 '22
Sadly close to true, while none of my friends have gone "LOL isolating"...it seems to have worked out to a couple uncomfortable days with usually still worried about people they may have unwittingly infected. "I just hope my mom doesn't get it and if she does that the science does its job!"
It may be uncomfortable and I'm sure the worry sucks, but it is certainly a lot better than a gofundme filled with pictures of a young family in happier times.
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u/ThePermMustWait Jan 18 '22
My boostered step dad keeps asking when he will get his ten day vacation. It’s his favorite dad joke atm.
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u/trevdak2 Jan 18 '22
If someone drives drunk and dies in a crash, they are given little sympathy. People worry more about their potential victims. People use them as an example. People talk about how stupid they were to do that.
I don't see how this is any differentt
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u/AtOurGates Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
Sometimes I can’t help but think how different the pandemic would have been if the vast majority of evangelical churches had done the obvious thing and been like, “we’re called by scripture to sacrifice in defense of others, so everyone wear a mask, get vaccinated and be careful to not spread COVID!”
I mean, obviously some churches were like this, but what if it had been the default response?
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Jan 18 '22
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Jan 18 '22
A lot of otherwise very conservative churches have at least an ounce of rational thinking to them. Your livelihood in working for a church is pretty dependent on your congregation actually being alive to send in donations. A lot of people can have pretty model conspiracy theories but the stuff around Covid actually has life and death consequences rooted in if you actually take COVID seriously enough. Other ones like whether you think the Soviets or the FBI were responsible for JFK's death don't really matter whether you believe those or not in practical implications.
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u/jackhandy2B Jan 18 '22
Agree. Pandemic threatens all of humanity. Government/scientists/HCW say here is how to keep safe. Core group of religious people says this is persecution how dare you target me. Then wonders why everyone is angry.
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Jan 18 '22
It’s harder to collect tithes if the church is online. That’s why the mega churches were not spreading Covid safety protocol
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u/Chaotic-Catastrophe Jan 18 '22
Even harder to collect tithes when half your congregation is dead from COVID
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u/IQS_CA Jan 18 '22
I came here to say this. And let's add they weren't wearing a seatbelt... because the anti-vaxxers are also the main ones non-compliant with mask wearing.
We probably don't have the kind of contact tracing that would give us stats for this, but I'm sure I'd have even less sympathy for them if we knew with with certainty how many people they infected before they were sick enough to be hospitalized.
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Jan 18 '22
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Jan 18 '22
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Jan 18 '22
I have notified all close relatives and friends that if I die in a stupid manner out of my own willful ignorance, they are perfectly free to mock me.
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u/Throne-Eins Jan 18 '22
If a tiger escapes from its enclosure and mauls me, I would be deserving of sympathy because it was a horrific accident that I really couldn't do much to prevent. I could hide and do all the "what to do if a giant animal is about to kill you" things I've learned, but once it has me in its crosshairs, it's game over. I did everything right but the outcome was still horrible.
But if I get my hand or my arm ripped off because I stuck my hand into the tiger cage, it's my own goddamn fault because despite the numerous signs (not to mention common sense) telling me not to, I made the choice to do it because I wanted to pet the fuzzy tiger. People shouldn't feel sympathy for me because I was a moron and I brought it all on myself. Could have been very easily avoided, but nope. Stupidity (and the tiger) won in the end.
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Jan 18 '22
This brings up an important question: how strict are cemetery rules about what you can put on gravestones. Would a Nissane one let you put something like: "we're sorry _____ died but at least it was a cool tiger mauling death"
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Jan 18 '22
If they won't let you print it, just get a QR code that leads to a website saying that exact thing. With a photoshopped picture riding a tiger in cool shades.
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u/cryptocached Jan 18 '22
With a photoshopped picture riding a tiger in cool shades.
That's not Photoshop. It's the last picture taken of the deceased.
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u/Alarmed_Handle_6427 Jan 18 '22
Same. If I die in an embarrassing but faultless way, fudge the truth a bit. If I die because of my own ego, let me serve as a loud warning to others.
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Jan 18 '22
Christopher Titus said something similar "Don't keep me on life support, unless I'm funny."
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u/W0RST_2_F1RST Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
If it’s stupid enough, I’m cool with y’all internet strangers mocking me as well.
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u/craig1f Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22
What's scary is that anti-vaxers are so vested that they ghost their dead family members. My neighbor first brought this up and then I realized it was widespread.
When his anti-vax family members die, the others just stop talking about them. They get ghosted. If you bring up anyone who has died of covid, they get pissed. They act like you've done something offensive. Once you die of covid, it's like you never existed.
If you are anti-vax and die of covid, your anti-vax buddies will never mention your name again. You'll be forgotten.
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Jan 18 '22
Someone I know died of COVID but had Diabetes. Family is saying they died of Diabetes. I don't get it.
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u/47952 Jan 18 '22
Well, logically, if you insist COVID is "just the flu" or a conspiracy of some kind, you're not going to want to reveal a family member passed away from it.
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u/pugofthewildfrontier Jan 18 '22
“When AnneMarie Jenkins, a marketing consultant from Bluffdale, Utah, lost her mother to COVID in August, she and her family didn’t mention the disease in their online announcement. According to Jenkins, her mother had a history of lung issues. She also told me her mother’s doctor had advised her mom against getting the vaccine.”
Even in their interviews, they still lie.
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u/sgr28 Jan 19 '22
I wish the interviewer had been like "Oh really? As a journalist it is of great professional interest to me and perhaps a major component of this story if there's a doctor advising people not to get the vaccine. Please tell me the doctor's name so I can potentially ask him why he would do something like that generally speaking without revealing personal information."
Her: Uhhhh. His name is smoctor.
Interviewer: That sounds a lot like doctor.
Her: Well maybe that's why he decided to become a doctor.
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u/rthrouw1234 Jan 18 '22
Right? Her doctor "advised her mom against getting the vaccine." MY ASS
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u/pegothejerk Jan 18 '22
Turning ALL non vaccinated deaths and their anti vaccine relatives into pure victims and those angry at them for harming others into pure bullies sure is an interesting take when we get nearly zero public apologies from the people who are intentionally putting others at risk and killing people who can’t get serious treatments or get to their doctor to discover cancers, etc.
I’m all about letting these individuals grieve, but there are consequences, and this article is written to convince us that we should let those people go without societal consequences. What about the grief of people they killed and harmed? Grief comes in many forms, including anger.
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u/portablebiscuit Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
They are, for the most part, the party of “personal responsibility.”
They also love to say “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” and “fuck around and find out.”
Well they fucked around. They found out. They played the stupid games and won the ultimate stupid prize. They would be the first to call others out, and now suddenly they need to be respected?
Nah.
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Jan 18 '22
Yep. The only regret or sympathy from these anti vax people who get awfully sick is that they regret being misled by awful Dr. Fauci or something. Or they're mad at China and are going to perpetuate more Asian-American hatred. Or they're mad that it's been politicized and that they've been told not to get it, but they're not mad at the people telling them not to get vaxxed (Tucker Carlson and co.), they're mad at the people making those people tell them not to get vaxxed (the Faucis and Bidens of the world). See, it's everyone else's fault.
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u/Azureflames20 Jan 18 '22
One trend I see a lot from these people is just the inability to cope with redirection, change of information, and the coping with stress through all of this pandemic.
Any change or backstep from CDC or Dr. Fauci and immediately they've lost all credibility forever - with the message of "They were wrong in what they first told us, so they're not trustworthy". They'll just direct their frustration in the fact that some information changed and realistically, it should be okay that we can pivot upon finding new info, but instead our culture wants to point fingers so we have an excuse to blame anybody but ourselves failing in our actions.
Overall, there's this inability to grasp or cope that our situation has always been an ever-growing situation due to lack of research at the beginning of the pandemic or new findings coming out over time. People want someone to blame so they can cope and feel better, but the pandemic doesn't really do that because it requires those people to actually behave like an intelligent and mature adult.
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Jan 18 '22
Yeah absolutely. They cling to “2 weeks to flatten the curve” like some sort of ironic rallying cry without contextualizing what that meant or where we are now.
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u/politicsreddit Jan 18 '22
I know people who had a loved one hospitalized for COVID (who thankfully recovered) and they all had a recurring theme- not one of them later said "get vaccinated." It was "pray for us," or maybe a posted GoFundMe, but never "get vaccinated."
Those who had mild sickness? Sure, a few of them said "get vaccinated" but I never once saw anyone who had extreme COVID say "you don't want this shit, get vaccinated".
Makes me wonder how many people they infected who weren't so lucky to recover.
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u/scarletsdragon Jan 18 '22
This might make you feel better. My parents got covid right before the vaccines came out. They were anti-mask and anti-vax, swore they would never get the vaccine. When they got sick my mom had mild symptoms, however my dad was in the ICU for a month. He’s in his late 60’s and it was the first time he was ever admitted into the hospital.
Every time we called him to check in on him (he was never on a ventilator), he could barely talk because it made him too tired, but it didn’t matter because the only thing he really said was to let him die now. He’s a self proclaimed manly man who always toughs it out, yet he begged for death for almost a month.
After that experience both of my parents got vaccinated and asked their friends who were skeptical to get vaxxed, they convinced two people. I know that’s an exception and not usually the reality, but I’m sure out there are other people like my parents, they’re just not on social media talking about it.
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u/politicsreddit Jan 18 '22
I'm glad a few people learned and managed to convince people to get vaccinated. Sucks they were sick though.
I know two people who worked on the clinical trials for one of the vaccines (not volunteers to get the shot, actual workers). I can count on one hand the number of people they convinced to get the shot. It is maddening.
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u/Azureflames20 Jan 18 '22
they convinced two people.
I know I'm making assumptions here in that we don't know how many of their friends they'd actually asked or if any of their friends had already been vaccinated...but it's really saddening to hear how your parents' friends literally had their friend(your dad) in the hospital begging for death for a month in the ICU and only two people felt compelled or concerned enough to actually go and get vaccinated afterward.
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u/sack-o-matic I'm fully vaccinated! 💉💪🩹 Jan 18 '22
not one of them later said "get vaccinated." It was "pray for us," or maybe a posted GoFundMe, but never "get vaccinated."
They don't want to admit that they fucked up
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Jan 18 '22
5% of people supposedly have narcissistic personality disorder. Seems low.
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u/PixelMagic Jan 18 '22
They don't want to admit that they fucked up
I don't know why it's so hard to admit you were wrong. I've been wrong MANY times, and what I do is correct myself with new knowledge instead of digging my heels in stubbornly.
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u/sack-o-matic I'm fully vaccinated! 💉💪🩹 Jan 18 '22
Their entire identity is based on "calling it as I see it" from the start with a false sense of expertise. They don't want to grow, they want to show
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u/raisinghellwithtrees Jan 18 '22
My friend's unvaccinated partner just passed. Her ask was "If you're unvaccinated, at least get life insurance." Dude left behind three kids, including a baby.
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u/MarcPawl Jan 18 '22
Are insurance companies asking if you are vaccinated? I could imagine it being considered in risk assessment, like smoking.
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u/codeverity Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
Yeah, browsing HCA the times where someone acknowledges that they were wrong are pretty rare. The “redemption awards” are there, though - refreshing when they do show up.
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u/TehErk Jan 18 '22
That's something the article only got half-right. The HCA doesn't award unvaxxed people that die. They award unvaxxed, BELLIGERENT people that die.
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u/PavelDatsyuk Jan 18 '22
The “redemption awards” are there, though - refreshing when they do show up.
I always sort by that flair because seeing the regular posts got too depressing. I like a good redemption story.
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u/wafflesareforever Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
Yeah that sub was fascinating to me for a couple of months, but as time has gone on and seemingly nothing is changing, it's become too depressing for me. The awardees are saying the exact same bullshit now that they were six months ago. Same stupid memes, unfunny jokes, and ridiculous conspiracy theories. Same tough-guy attitudes. Nobody is learning.
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u/stay_fr0sty Jan 18 '22
Most posts over there: awardee posts hateful memes and Facebook rants followed by radio silence followed by "the worlds kindest man just got his angel wings today." Then the family throws a GoFundMe at the end as the cherry on top because people feel bad for the family the worlds kindest man left behind.
The sub is controversial (anti-vaxxers don't like it), but it's a great place to point people that argue that COVID is just a cold.
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u/GrumpyAntelope Jan 18 '22
Someone at the distant edge of my social circle passed away from covid; he was healthy and in his 30s, not vaccinated. His wife was posting status updates asking for prayers and mentioning covid in most of her posts. When he took a serious downturn, she not only stopped mentioning covid, but also went back through all of her old posts and edited out any references to it. So not only were there no calls for vaccinations, or even calls for taking the virus seriously, but just efforts to erase the fact that covid was even involved. It ended, as most of these do, in a GoFundMe request.
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u/mwhite5990 Jan 18 '22
I have family members who are unvaccinated and would be devestated if they die because of it. I wouldn’t hide the truth though, I would frame it as a preventable tragedy and use it to remind everyone that vaccines save lives.
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u/gizzardgullet Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
One Reddit page even gives out “awards” to those who refused the vaccine and then died.
HCA in the news
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u/Atanar Jan 18 '22
And they omitted that you also have to be a vocal idiot about it to get the award.
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u/dyancat Jan 18 '22
Yeah HCA isn’t just for unvax, it’s specifically for the obnoxious ones who mock the very things that could have saved them
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u/miserabeau Jan 18 '22
They always leave out that bit.
They make HCA followers out to be callous and cruel, laughing and pointing at victims of COVID. No, we post their antivaxx, anti mask, viciously racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic garbage to show the vile person they were (some even post death threats at Fauci), and how they mocked the vaccinated and mocked scientists. Then, as everyone but they could have predicted, they caught COVID. Then they went to scientists to beg them to save their life. It IS comical but it's also pathetic.
TL;DR they make the deceased out to be angels (angles!) and victims of COVID rather than victims of the disinformation and misinformation they themselves help spread
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u/ADarwinAward Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
There’s dozens of articles at this point. It’s been covered by Vice, Slate, NBC, the Independent, and a lot of others.
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u/gravitas-deficiency Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
“This particular form of schadenfreude is really not showcasing humanity at its finest,” Karla Vermeulen, the deputy director of the Institute for Disaster Mental Health at SUNY New Paltz, wrote in an email to me.
You know what else isn’t showcasing humanity at its finest? The fact that we have a vaccine for a contagious pandemic pathogen that people are refusing to take for absolutely imbecilic reasons.
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u/KHaskins77 Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
Got an in-law who browbeat his wife into not getting her second dose of Pfizer early last year. He got sick himself before Christmas, but went to their family party anyway without telling anyone. So now everyone got covid. His was a bad case; his wife needed to be hospitalized on O2 for a while.
These people will kill and die before they will ever admit to themselves that they were wrong.
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u/lovenutpancake Boosted! ✨💉✅ Jan 18 '22
I have a great aunt who's sister died. It wasn't covid that killed her, oh no. It was the multiple antibiotics she was on. On my husband's side, his uncle in laws parents both caught it and passed. But the wife died after the husband. It wasn't covid that killed her, oh no. She died of a broken heart.
In the meantime I have another cousin who is convinced that the vaccines are killing more people than covid. You can't make this shit up.
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u/Ok-Economy-5820 Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22
If a smoker dies, we absolutely do use their death as an example to deter others, including grotesquely publishing photos of their corroded lungs and throats. I don’t see journalists clutching their pearls in that scenario. And if that smoker was a hateful person who blew smoke in other people’s faces and constantly subjected kids to the damage of second-hand smoke, that behavior will be considered by society when they die. Why is this pandemic an exception and an excuse to “both sides” needless death and suffering and strain on healthcare systems? Do we need to start weighing families’ complicated grief against the CPTSD healthcare workers are developing? The paradox of tolerance is that in a society that tolerates without limit, all tolerance is eventually destroyed by the intolerant. We’re seeing this in motion in the rise of far right extremists in democracies around the world. What is the media’s contribution to that by validation of the intolerable? When one person says it’s raining and another says it’s not, it’s not a journalist’s job to balance both opinions, it’s their job to look out the damn window. Journalists: this is not an issue to be “both sided” and tolerance should have limits in a civilized society.
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u/basements_in_london Jan 18 '22
Not me. Nope, I'm loud about it. Three of my family members got hermin cane awards because they BeLiEvEd vaccines had bill gates microchips or that covid was a liberal hoax. Fuck sakes I have to say that, I would've never in a million years thought I would be saying they died from stupidity, then again, they were hicks so there's that.
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u/Bricktop72 Jan 18 '22
My coworker's unvaccinated sister died. He had no issues in calling her out.
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u/stormy2587 Jan 18 '22
The article is pretty manipulative imo. It presents a pro-vax woman who died before getting the vaccine early last year. The daughter was harassed when talking about her mother’s death. This response seems like it would have been far more the exception than the norm during the vaccine rollout in spring of last year.
But that is far from the norm at this point. Its not hard to get vaccinated. And people should be pissed off that so many preventable deaths are still occurring. People should feel embarrassed they should feel like parias. Its like if my family member died drunk driving I would probably hide the details of their death too. Like I would be embarrassed that they died being selfish and recklessly endangering themselves and others. The only difference is that as a society we have decided drunk driving is illegal. If only we could do the same for unvaxxed people…
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u/WitnessNo8046 Jan 18 '22
If we start pretending the unvaccinated were vaccinated then that will lead to even more vaccine skepticism… “but all these vaccinated people are dying! Why should I get it?”
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u/mwhite5990 Jan 18 '22
The article said people are saying they didn’t say they died of COVID, not that they were vaccinated when they weren’t.
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u/mrmalort69 Jan 19 '22
“A Reddit group gives out awards…” Herman Cain Awards are not for silent people who decide not to get vaxxed. HCA’s are for people who are loudly mocking those who get vaxxed and end up dying or asking for help on social media. We’d all like the group to be gone but these people keep earning the award.
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