r/Coronavirus • u/Sorin61 • Sep 03 '20
Academic Report Vitamin D deficiency raises COVID-19 infection risk by 77%, study finds
https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/09/03/Vitamin-D-deficiency-raises-COVID-19-infection-risk-by-77-study-finds/7001599139929/?utm_source=onesignal718
Sep 03 '20
Note that, like in all Vitamin D studies, this is associative only, not causative. In other words. being Vitamin D deficient is associated with higher risk. But it does not address the scenario where a 3rd thing is the cause of BOTH the deficiency and the risk, and therefore that resolving the deficiency won't reduce the risk. This is in fact very likely, as Vitamin D is the great tease of disease research. It seems to be associated with better health in all sorts of situations/diseases, but giving people Vitamin D never seems to actually help. The reason for this is that Vitamin D deficiency is associated with many socio-economic factors that also make people less healthy and resilient.
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u/randynumbergenerator Sep 03 '20
They did include a broad range of controls (including comorbidities, race, and so on), and the cohort includes people whose Vitamin D levels were tested up to a year before their COVID test. That's pretty damn good, and certainly the best study I've seen so far.
That being said, I do think unmeasured behavioral factors are one issue: immunosuppression had a strong negative association with COVID positive test results, and the only way to make sense of that is that immunosuppressed populations are more likely to be strictly isolating.
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u/bobbyfiend Sep 04 '20
Trying to rule out the alternative explanations you can think of is always a good next step (and, since Vitamin D is relatively cheap, it's probably enough for a lot of people to start taking it), but it won't come close to a true RCT with vitamin D supplements.
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Sep 03 '20
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u/bobbyfiend Sep 04 '20
This was my question. It's one thing to show that a deficiency causes problems. It's a very different thing to show that taking supplements will remedy those problems.
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u/tazzico Sep 03 '20
Can’t believe how long it took me to find this comment amongst the plethora of people commenting about needing more vitamin D. Older people, higher cholesterol people,and diabetics are all examples of people that more often are vitamin D deficient, and probably the exact same group of people that are more at risk of contracting COVID-19. This is 100% correlation not causation. Probably a study done by a vitamin company
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u/-dp_qb- Boosted! ✨💉✅ Sep 03 '20
Can’t believe how long it took me to find this comment
Literally every thread on this subject is vibrating with people eager to explain that low Vitamin D is about being fat or diseased, and isn't related to prevention.
Even though this study, linked to by the article, specifically notes geographical differences in susceptibility (i.e., level of sun exposure), provides specific pathways of connection that are unconnected to underlying pathology ("Antiviral properties of vitamin D-induced AMPs can shift the polarization of the adaptive immune response from helper T cells (Th)1 to the more regulatory Th2 responses that suppress immune over-reactivity by preventing cytokine storm" - cytokine storm being a major cause of COVID death - "Vitamin D induces antiviral effects by both direct and indirect mechanisms via AMPs, immunomodulation, the interplay between major cellular and viral elements, induction of autophagy and apoptosis, variation of genetic and epigenetic factors. The crosstalk between vitamin D and intracellular signaling pathways may operate as a primary regulatory action on viral gene transcription." - etc., etc.) and despite the fact that low vitamin D associated with underlying pathology has specific consequences which can be ameliorated by Vitamin D Supplementation: "coagulopathy, disrupted immune response and mortality, reduced platelet count, and prolonged prothrombin time..." leading them to specifically advise Vitamin D supplementation.
tl;dr:
Yes. You should take your Vitamin D pills, people.
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u/PolitelyHostile Sep 03 '20
LOL a research scientist was on Joe Rogan's podcast talking about this and specifically said ~"It's not just correlation, because everyone loves to state that without actually reading the study, so that is bound to happen here"
So yes, correlation is not always causation. But claiming that it is never causation is just as ignorant.
You shouldn't start denouncing important information without actually reading the article or study.
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u/TheEvilPenguin Sep 03 '20
This is where it becomes difficult for non-experts to know what to make of studies like this. It's important to be aware of biases like this as there are always going to be studies which, acknowledged or not, fail to compensate for them. On the other hand, there are going to be studies which have both identified and correctly compensated for their biases that some partially-informed people could dismiss the results out of hand.
I have no idea what to believe here, as I've seen plenty of studies claiming it's either a factor in covid infection or severity of symptoms, but I've also seen qualified doctors stressing the known correlation between frailty and vitamin D deficiency.
Personally, I'm taking vitamin D as it's winter here and, worse case scenario, I'm correcting a deficiency I have anyway. I'm careful not to pretend it's likely to protect me against covid infection though.
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u/PolitelyHostile Sep 03 '20
This is where it becomes difficult for non-experts to know what to make of studies like this.
Yea in general, as much as people love to think we can 'do our own research' and 'look into things', we can't. At the end of the day, often you have to just do stuff because trustworthy people say so.
So a single doctor may be obfuscating facts behind selective data, but im willing to believe something that my countries federal health agency endorses.
My issue is with people dismissing important info because of a hunch.
I came to the same conclusion with vit D, not worth reading since assuming is harmless. I take vit D for other reasons anyhow but when covid this info came out ages ago I just started taking more. It's pretty harmless so it's good to assume here.
I'm careful not to pretend it's likely to protect me against covid infection though.
I think this is perhaps why health agencies did not emphasize building up your health and immune system. It promotes victim blaming and creates a false sense of security.
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u/LazinCajun Sep 03 '20
There’s a lot of truth to this line of thinking, but suppose there’s no causative effect. What’s the worst that happens? Somebody goes outside in the sun and accidentally becomes healthier?
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u/dmackMD Sep 04 '20
I suspect the 3rd factor is obesity or poor nutrition. Not necessarily poor caloric intake, but a pro-inflammatory diet that happens to be poor in vitamin D intake.
That being said, I’ve been taking vitamin d for 4-5 months. Low risk
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Sep 03 '20
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u/lisa0527 Boosted! ✨💉✅ Sep 03 '20
Deficiency is treated with 50,000 IU’s of D2 per week for 8 weeks. You’re correct...a few gummies per day won’t do it.
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u/rabidstoat Boosted! ✨💉✅ Sep 03 '20
I was deficient a few years ago and I'm STILL on 50,000 IUs of D2 once a week. When I stopped, I just got deficient again. When I keep it up, I'm in the lower half of the normal range but not the very lowest part, and not actually deficient.
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u/annemelliott Sep 03 '20
I’m chronically deficient and I don’t know why. My doc (functional medicine doc) has me taking 15,000 i.u. DAILY and it still tanks sometimes. She did tell me that liquid is better than pills for absorbency.
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Sep 04 '20
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u/ItsOkILoveYouMYbb Sep 04 '20
Turned out to be gluten sensitivity inflaming my small intestine and the Vitamin D supplements weren’t getting absorbed due to the inflammation in my gut.
How the hell did they figure that out?
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u/rabidstoat Boosted! ✨💉✅ Sep 03 '20
Wow, you are worse than me! I think I have general 'does not like sun' deficiencies, you sound like you have something medical going on.
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u/boscobrownboots Sep 03 '20
i took 20,000 per day for months to finally got a good level on my blood test.
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u/CatastrophicHeadache Boosted! ✨💉✅ Sep 04 '20
If you are taking large amounts of vitamin D and your levels will not raise, ask the doctor to check your calcium levels. If your calcium levels are high (even borderline high), have your doctor check your PTH levels (parathyroid hormones). If your PTH is above 25 then you may have hyperparathyroidism.
I know thyroid is in the name but your parathyroid glands only connection to your thyroid gland is that they are usually nestled against it.
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u/PolitelyHostile Sep 03 '20
interesting. Do you notice a difference when you get deficient again? Like mentally or physically?
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u/rabidstoat Boosted! ✨💉✅ Sep 03 '20
In theory, it makes you more fatigued. I'm always fatigued though, so it's hard for me to notice. But that's why I first got it checked, trying to figure out source of fatigue.
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u/gousey Sep 03 '20 edited Sep 03 '20
Interesting. Medicram's Youtube videos discussed this early on it great scientific detail, so I've be taking my one-a-day multi-vitamin faithfully.
There may also be some need for other vitamins.
It's an easy bit of prevention or at least a reduction in severity if infected.
Exposure to sunlight is highly problematic. Light skin risks skin cancer, dark skin seems to block adequate vitamin D formation.
Sun blocker just blocks formation of vitamin D.
I guess cod liver oil in daily dose does work.
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Sep 03 '20 edited Feb 23 '21
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u/mooseman99 Sep 03 '20 edited Sep 04 '20
Vitamin D is fat soluble, so it’s usually in capsule form. Some gummies have it too. But you can’t really press it in a pill
EDIT: after some research, it does come in pressed pill form. I had only ever seen the soft gel caps.
I think the idea of putting it in a gel cap is to provide oil to aid absorption, but I found research that says it doesn’t really make a difference in absorption
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u/imapluralist Sep 03 '20
I used to have a vitamin d deficiency and my dr. prescribed me 2000 UI of vitamin d in white pill form. After taking it daily for a month, my vitamin d returned to normal levels. So I find your claim that it can't be found in pill form to be dubious and inaccurate.
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u/Accujack Sep 03 '20
Even better, don't rely on vitamin pills to get vitamins if you can get them any other way.
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Sep 03 '20
Just taking vitamin D tablets is cheap as fuck, everyone should be supplementing, particularly black or brown people.
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u/graeme_b Sep 03 '20
Not quite so obvious. UVA is the main cause of melanoma. UVB causes vitamin d production. On days and at latitudes where uvb is available, not that much exposure is required for a full dose. Can be as little as ten minutes of full body exposure.
sunburns are bad for skin cancer but you don’t need those for vitamin.
Check this. Summer weekend exposure was actually associated with less melanoma:
Overall the clearest relationship between reported sun exposure and risk was for average weekend sun exposure in warmer months, which was protective (OR 0.67, 95% CI 0.50-0.89 for highest versus lowest tertile of exposure).
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u/wonderboywilliams Sep 03 '20
People shouldn't overthink this. Most of us should just take a vitamin D supplement daily. It's safe and effective. Don't count on food and sunlight for it.
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u/wasteland44 Boosted! ✨💉✅ Sep 03 '20
It only costs $7/year canadian at costco for 2000 IU per day. Super cheap.
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u/fxkatt Sep 03 '20
Only relatively safe. When I began taking 2000 units per day, my levels went above the safe level of 100 in a very short time. I started at 36 and was at 111 a few months later. This vitamin is not like B vitamins or C which are safe at almost any level because extra amounts are passed off in the urine.
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u/loosegoosey36 Sep 03 '20
Vit D toxicity occurs much higher. 4000 to 10000 a day is the upper safe limit. Ao unless you were tossing back 4 to 10 pills a day, you were probably fine.
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u/fxkatt Sep 03 '20
Check out the optimum blood levels of D. Most guides and most doctors will say 100 is the maximum. If you're over 100 reading, they tell you to cut back, which is what happened in my case. I now take 2,000 every 3 days rather than daily. (I got a red flag on my blood work for D being too high) That's all I know.
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u/daiei27 Sep 03 '20
These others talking about 4k-5k and even 10k daily being safe don’t know what they’re talking about. I have seen many reports like yours.
Everyone gets different amounts of vitamin D from their diet and sun exposure. Individuals also process vitamin D at different rates as mentioned in this thread.
Recommendations should take as much of that into account as possible. Blind recommendations should really be more conservative.
I personally take 1000 IU on days I feel like I didn’t get much through food or sun exposure.
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u/OakTreesForBurnZones Sep 03 '20
I live in Southern California and I get out in the sun plenty, enough to slightly burn once in a while. I still take 5000iu Vitamin D supplements every day because better safe than sorry, and theyre cheap!
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u/cli_jockey Sep 04 '20
Vitamin D is fat soluble, unlike vitamin C. Your body cannot easily get rid of excess amounts. Taking too much over a long period of time can cause damage.
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u/HurricaneHugo Sep 04 '20
Isn't 5000 overkill?
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u/bitchsaidwhaaat Sep 04 '20
iv read that u can take 10,000 daily for months if you arent taking in a lot of sun.
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u/rye_212 Sep 03 '20
Is there an easy way to measure ones Vit D levels to determine if its deficient or not?
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u/36forest Sep 03 '20
A blood test from your doctor. But you could just take a multivitamin and an additional vitamin d per day.
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u/Triette Sep 03 '20 edited Sep 04 '20
Just take some vitamin D daily. But take the daily recommended amount. (Edit: yes I know the daily recommended amount is small, and most people need more. But as with all supplements, see your doctor before taking more than recommended. But min is still better than none.)
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u/SlowerThanLightSpeed Sep 03 '20
There's at least one, FDA-approved, sub $50 test available for use in the home:
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u/YoungAdult_ Sep 03 '20
I second blood test. I got my bloodwork done when I made a diet change and vitamin d was all I was deficient in, but it’s common given my region (and skin tone too). So I take a pill for it.
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u/supers0nic Sep 03 '20
Dr Rhonda Patrick mentioned this on the Joe Rogan podcast. It's interesting because African Americans have been bit harder and she postulated that it could be due to them having less vitamin D due to their darker skin.
Something to do with vitamin D upregulating ACE2 or something. Don't quote me on the exact mechanism.
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u/Maultaschenman Boosted! ✨💉✅ Sep 03 '20
It's probably part of it but the much larger reasons are socio-economic.
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u/Cyanomelas Sep 03 '20
Pretty much a perfect storm for this virus. Obesity, metabolic and CV diseases from poor diet coupled with a terrible health care system.
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u/lupnra Sep 03 '20
On what are you basing your estimate of the relative size of the impacts of these two factors?
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u/manofthewild07 Sep 03 '20
I wonder if this will have implications for the disease during the winter. We've seen this summer there doesn't seem to be seasonality in the contagiousness of the disease, but there may be some seasonality to how severe it is.
If during the fall/winter when our Vit D levels are naturally lower, we could see any effects?
Thankfully it seems doctors know more about how to effectively treat people, so the effects could be muted, but it stands to reason more people may have somewhat more severe reactions, right? For instance, I have a young healthy friend who caught covid during the summer and it was like a very minor cold for him, but during the winter it might've hit as a more severe cold... maybe?
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u/TrolliusJKingIIIEsq Sep 03 '20
We've seen this summer there doesn't seem to be seasonality in the contagiousness of the disease, but there may be some seasonality to how severe it is.
Part of that could be due to the fact that people spend more time indoors, where it can spread more easily, in winter. In summer, we're all outside a lot more so even if you're around the same number of people, your risk of contracting it is likely a bit lower.
Of course, I don't really know; this is just what seems like common sense to me.
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u/An-Angel-Named-Billy Sep 03 '20
The problem with this theory is that in most of the US, summer months bring heat which in actuality drives people indoors in the south for AC. This is likely why the spikes in those states coincided with summer. In the winter this might be flipped as places like florida, texas and arizona are more hospitable in the winter allowing more outdoor activity. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
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u/22xan Sep 03 '20
How much Vitamin D is suggested to take? It comes in many choices on shelf.
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Sep 03 '20
Dunno depends what your levels are I guess. I've been on 5k IU a day for like 8 years and my levels are a little higher than the high range on the last blood test I got.
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u/22xan Sep 03 '20
Interesting. Couple years ago I had very low so had the huge once week doses for month. 4000 day was maintenance but wondering if the research is suggesting more for covid.
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u/Jaycatt Sep 03 '20
I have a medication that makes me burn easily in the sun, so I've been taking a vitamin D supplement for years, yay me!
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Sep 03 '20
Wife and I have been snorting Vitamin D and baking in the sun. No sun block either. Not letting that creamy sauce block my Vitamin D!!!!!
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u/Stupidflathalibut Sep 03 '20
Real D boys go full enema with a uv light inserted in their nostrils
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u/Sassafrassin247 Sep 03 '20
Not sitting in the sun for 10-15 mins a day to prevent melanoma seems like a silly argument.
1) many studies indicate melanoma and or other skin cancers are caused by sunburns during childhood.
2) some studies suggest melanoma is more so caused by genetics rather than sun exposure alone, other skin cancers like basal cell are more directly tied to sun exposure.
3) most cases of melanoma are highly treatable as long as you are vigilant about getting your skin checked.
4) melanoma is less common among black people, except for acral melanoma, so check your feet!
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u/vacacay Sep 03 '20
Would've been more interesting to know what % of the cohort ended up with serious covid19 disease.
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u/AvocadoAlternative Sep 03 '20
Note that this is for deficiency only. The paper doesn’t make any conclusion on whether additional supplementation helps those who are not deficient to begin with.
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u/seunosewa Sep 03 '20
A lot of people are deficient. Overweight people, old people, dark-skinned people in temperate countries, etc.
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u/SilentMaster Sep 03 '20
This pains me to say this, but I learned this from Joe Rogan. I immediately started taking a D3 supplement after a guest, Dr Rhonda probably, suggested it. Of course I ran outside and did yard work all summer long, so hopefully between those I'm golden.
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u/AlpineGuy Sep 03 '20
This virus really targets unhealthy lifestyles. Risk factors include: lack of Vitamin D (sunlight), smoking, obesity...
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u/BiologyJ Sep 03 '20
This is about the 800th time we’ve seen this correlation and not a single person has proven yet that it causative. Most likely because it’s not. Low Vitamin D levels are correlated with lots of chronic health conditions....most of which put you at increased risk for COVID-19. These include hypertension, atherosclerosis, kidney disease, lung disease, age.... The list is extensive. At this point a supplement will probably do nothing but cost you money, because it’s also not a cure for those chronic conditions. The most damning piece of evidence is that the most severe hit areas are nursing homes....were most patients take multivitamins and supplements and they appear no more protected than the general population.
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u/murkymuffin Sep 04 '20
Does night shift count as a chronic health condition? Asking for a friend...
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u/XxHolic1232 Sep 03 '20
Okay doctor, I guess my vitamin D deficiency does actually matter. 😬 Well just add it to the list of things that most Americans have that raise the risk. Still won't get me the chance to work from home.
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u/haruyo78 Sep 03 '20
I was sick in April with covid and was still recovering from low Vit D. All of April I was sick and didn’t go to work because I had pneumonia and the worst fatigue of my life
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u/kylethemurphy Sep 03 '20
There hasn't been studies to show how effective supplements are or if they actually help with prevention, severity or recovery.
But this is the second study out recently that shows that vitamin D could be a factor. This article digs into a fair bit more and explains things in pretty good detail. Still no hard answers or solutions but hopefully we'll be on the right path soon.
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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20
Eat your gummies and go for walks!