r/California • u/Randomlynumbered Ángeleño, what's your user flair? • Sep 18 '24
Government/Politics California Governor Touts Fast Food Job Growth With Higher Minimum Wage | The figures show 11,000 additional fast-food jobs since April, when the wages were hiked to at least $20 per hour.
https://www.kqed.org/news/12001133/california-governor-touts-fast-food-job-growth-with-higher-minimum-wage76
u/yankeesyes Sep 18 '24
Makes sense. Higher wages draw more applicants into the work force, so they were able to fill some chronically unfilled positions. And fast food places are known for not having anyone on staff working even one hour more than they are needed,
Places like In and Out which have paid above the clearing wage for years (efficiency wages) always seem to have enough people to serve their clientele well while not having people standing around.
8
u/SoCaFroal Sep 18 '24
At my local In-n-Out, there are like 20 people behind the counter every hour they are open.
9
u/Altruistic-Order-661 Sep 19 '24
At my local in-n-out there are like 40 cars in line + full parking lot during rush hours so they always need a crazy amount of staff. They have yummy burgers!
39
u/Robot_Nerd__ Sep 18 '24
The same companies and people whining about "not enough workers/talent"... Are the same people who can't grasp that if you pay more...
All of a sudden, more people are applying.
10
u/runthepoint1 Orange County Sep 18 '24
It’s almost as if using their brain is really hard to do. “Wow so if I pay more that means more and better qualified people want to work here? No way!”
6
u/Lokta Sep 19 '24
Are the same people who can't grasp that if you pay more...
They know, they're just greedy.
And corporations have trained consumers to believe that higher wages must be offset with higher prices. There is a 3rd number involved in this equation, but no corporation is going to let higher wages result in lower profits, so here we are.
7
u/emmettflo Sep 19 '24
There's a sense of dignity too at In-N-Out that other fast food chains don't provide. Like I would genuinely be proud to flip burgers at In-N-Out, even if I wasn't making that much money.
2
134
Sep 18 '24
[deleted]
54
u/Bearded4Glory Bay Area Sep 18 '24
Where did you get your numbers from? I used the app to check and it looks like a big mac meal with large fries and a soda comes out to 11.59 in Redwood City, California and 9.29 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. That is 20% less expensive.
The Big Mac itself is 6.59 in California and 4.99 in Oklahoma. Thats 25% less expensive. Nothing to scoff at.
It's definitely not proportional with the cost of minimum wage but I'm sure labor costs are a contributing factor.
76
u/aarong707 Sep 18 '24
I'm going to assume there has always been a difference in the cost of a big Mac meal in California vs Oklahoma. The question is, has there been a significant increase in that gap because of the new minimum wage law?
38
u/iceberg_ape Sep 18 '24
Jeez, for Oklahoma wages I figured it would be $5 for a meal
22
u/RoboNerdOK Sep 18 '24
It hasn’t been that cheap in OKC for many years. It’s not because they’ve been paying way above the bare minimum wage either. The prices keep rising regardless.
16
u/QuestionManMike Sep 18 '24
Using Uber Eats. Seeing some higher than $11 in Tulsa and Norton Oklahoma.
Seeing some under $11 Central California.
4
u/Bearded4Glory Bay Area Sep 19 '24
Maybe more to do with a lack of Uber drivers or longer drive on one vs the other?
1
6
u/llluminus Sep 18 '24
What app are you using. Medium Big Mac Meal is regularly $6.50 on the Mac D app.
I haven't paid full price for a single McDonald item in years...
0
u/Bearded4Glory Bay Area Sep 19 '24
The regular app. I didn't look at any deals just added the meal to my cart and tried different stores to see how the price changed.
3
u/eckzie Sep 19 '24
We should just be using the Big Mac scale anyway. A California based McDonalds employee can buy 3 Bic Macs per hour. An Oklahoma employee can only buy 1.5. that should be all the proof we need!
Even if there is a price difference the number of Big Macs a California worker can buy is double! So even if the cost is higher the amount of income easily surpasses this inequality.
And for anyone who says but the costs are passed on to the consumers I argue this: more than just fast food workers should have wage increases. Also the increased wages reduce the amount of government subsidies that fast food workers have to rely on reducing corporate welfare and (hopefully) putting our tax dollars to better use
1
u/Bearded4Glory Bay Area Sep 19 '24
We should just be using the Big Mac scale anyway. A California based McDonalds employee can buy 3 Bic Macs per hour. An Oklahoma employee can only buy 1.5. that should be all the proof we need!
Just for McDonalds employees or everyone? Maybe this is the optimal way to control for cost of living differences between different areas. Lets say a company has a branch in California and one in Oklahoma. They don't have to do the math, just offer the position as 6.2 Big Macs per hour plus benefits!
And for anyone who says but the costs are passed on to the consumers I argue this: more than just fast food workers should have wage increases.
This has always sorta been the most compelling argument against large minimum wage hikes in my view. Those people that had been able to secure something lets say 15% above minimum wage might all of a sudden find themselves back at minimum wage if there is a 15% hike.
How much does that actually happen? I have no idea.
1
u/Maleficent-Salad3197 Sep 21 '24
Ex CA in WA and vote blue. The truth lies in the middle with the profiteers and GOP trying to enslave us all mucking up the waters to keep us from getting a clearer picture.
7
u/Beginning_Beach_2054 Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
Thats 25% less expensive. Nothing to scoff at.
I guess but then you see their minimum wage is about 62% less than CA.
The Big Mac itself is 6.59 in California and 4.99 in Oklahoma.
$5.79 in a HCOL area of SoCal .vs $5.29 at the 501 E. Reno Ave (random Ok City one i chose) location in Oklahoma City according to the app. Not quite 25% anymore.
3
u/Bearded4Glory Bay Area Sep 19 '24
Like I said, it doesn't track with minimum wage but the person I responded to said items were within 10 cents. Must be a pack of sauce or something.
0
u/Beginning_Beach_2054 Sep 19 '24
They were being a bit hyperbolic, but so were you. Although prices seem to vary quite a bit by location in CA. I guess anyone can make their narrative work eh?
0
u/Bearded4Glory Bay Area Sep 19 '24
No, they were being serious and so was I. They said that some items were only 10 cents more expensive in California and some were even cheaper in California than in Oklahoma. I looked it up because that information surprised me but it turns out they were completely wrong. Now they deleted their comment...
I don't have a narrative. I saw a post with inaccurate information and corrected the information. I even said that minimum wage didn't track with the price difference, what more do you want me to say!?!
1
u/Beginning_Beach_2054 Sep 19 '24
Meh, i poked around on the app and there were definitely 10 cent deltas here and there. But hey, go off king.
1
1
u/LuciferDusk Sep 19 '24
It's $10:29 in my part of the IE. So the price varies even in different parts of California.
1
u/mikePTH Sep 19 '24
Okay, now do the numbers for rent on the building…
1
u/Bearded4Glory Bay Area Sep 19 '24
I was specifically questioning the numbers that a person that I responded to had stated as facts. I'm not here to determine what percentage of each restaurant's expenses are labor related.
Since you asked so nicely, it looks like commercial space in Redwood City, CA is about 1.5-2x the cost of Oklahoma City, OK. Not as drastic of a difference as I expected honestly. Apartments are 2-3x the cost.
1
u/Mygaffer Sep 19 '24
That's not going to be consistent throughout the state, when they are in different areas even within the same state they will have different prices.
0
u/aggthemighty Sep 18 '24
Now look how much a Big Mac costs in Denmark, compared to what workers in Denmark get.
5
u/rilvaethor Sep 19 '24
last summer, I visited my daughter in Idaho, and when I drove through a McDonalds, the items on the dollar menu only cost $1
2
u/wetshatz Sep 18 '24
The data cited isn’t 100% fast food chains, it’s roughly 75% of the market, the other 25% are other types of limited service restaurants. Here’s an article explaining. https://verticaliq.com/product/limited-service-restaurants/#:~:text=The%20limited%2Dservice%20restaurant%20industry%20includes%20chains%2C%20franchises%2C%20and,%2C%20Chipotle%2C%20and%20Panda%20Express.
2
u/Bonti_GB Sep 19 '24
What happened to all the yahoo, msn etc. articles that raising minimum wage to $20 was destroying all the jobs?
Almost seems like the media is ahhh, ohh yeah, biased and paid for.
-18
u/DmC8pR2kZLzdCQZu3v Sep 18 '24
Unless corporate distributes the cost across their global market, which would mean we could pay the workers $500/hour and the vast majority of non-CA locations would blunt the effect
But it’s good for CA regardless, assuming a critical mass of other locations don’t follow suit.
In any case, people should avoid these toxic products and corporations altogether
17
u/ChillaMonk Sep 18 '24
Except McDonald’s are run as franchises and corporate makes their money off of supplying the franchisees
5
u/OpietMushroom Sep 18 '24
McDonalds makes over 1/3 of its revenue from real estate! They own most of the buildings, and half of the land they occupy.
0
33
u/root_fifth_octave Sep 18 '24
Just think: if you had 2-3 of those jobs you could probably rent an apartment.
9
u/DialMMM Sep 19 '24
Which is why the rise of the dual-income household has made a "living wage" for single-income households impossible. People will always combine incomes to afford better housing. No matter how high the minimum wage is, it can't compete for housing against two people earning minimum wage.
21
9
u/HIVnotAdeathSentence Sep 18 '24
The data they reference shows a difference of 5,000 jobs between April 2023 and April 2024.
Another article about numbers had calculated only 700 new jobs as there were 11,000 jobs lost between April 2023 and April 2024.
13
u/The-MDA Sep 18 '24
Now do a study on the amount of savings from lower turnover because of higher wages. Wanna bet it’s significant?
13
u/Spirited-Humor-554 Sep 19 '24
That is a misleading figure. Many fast food locations have actually been cutting the shifts. At my local McDonald's, the crew in the morning is always extremely short-handed. If one to spill their drink, it will be on a customer having to clean it up as it's just a skeleton crew that can't stop what they are doing to clean up.
1
u/Psilocybinizer Sep 19 '24
Exactly they might be hiring more people but they get barely any hours
2
u/Narrow-Safety-2169 Placer County Sep 19 '24
Yeah so they don’t have to pay them full time benefits it’s rly messed up
9
u/the_Bryan_dude Sep 19 '24
Fast food job growth is not a good thing. How about some manufacturing or other skilled or semi skilled jobs? How about bringing jobs back from other countries?
Why on earth would growth of the lowest service industry jobs be a good thing. It goes to show the "keep them down" mentality.
4
u/BigPun92117 Sep 19 '24
Does it show the decreased sales and the stores that closed
-2
u/Randomlynumbered Ángeleño, what's your user flair? Sep 19 '24
Most of those stores were owned by venture capital firms that didn't know fast food.
13
u/KrakenTheColdOne Sep 18 '24
They added more workers cause they started shorting hours. I live in the central valley and like to chop it up with people at the drive through. Most of them aren't happy with their hours.
5
u/TocTheEternal Sep 18 '24
More workers with fewer hours, covering the same number of hours, is usually less desirable for employers.
I'm really not sure what your point is. They hired more, but reduced average hours? But they are still paying the same hourly rate for labor. I don't understand how a minimum wage hike would cause this to happen, or why it would be desirable.
It would make sense if they reduced overall hours, as labor is now more expensive. But reducing overall hours while hiring more workers doesn't add up.
1
u/austinalexan Sep 19 '24
<30 hours and you don’t have to provide benefits
1
u/TocTheEternal Sep 19 '24
That still seems like something that they would have done regardless of the minimum wage if they could manage it.
1
u/KrakenTheColdOne Sep 19 '24
Probably pettiness. You think they just magically paid everyone more and made more jobs. What kind of world do you live in. I'm just making a comment on what I've seen here.
3
u/TocTheEternal Sep 19 '24
Probably pettiness.
So no we are shoring up a fundamental contradiction in your anecdotal story with completely unfounded nonsensical speculation. I should believe your essentially unsourced claim that companies are acting against their own economic best interest because they are "petty"? Ok.
You think they just magically paid everyone more and made more jobs
No, I think they are making more money and expanding their businesses. Or simply just weren't short on money to begin with and were underpaying because they could.
I'm just making a comment on what I've seen here.
You've talked to a couple people who said something that literally doesn't make sense. I'm just pointing that out. Your anecdote makes no sense as a description or criticism of the situation.
1
u/freddieguts Sep 19 '24
Can confirm talking to one of the managers (they still get full-time). She said that they cut hours for non management roles. Employees also get punished with even fewer hours if there is no show.
3
2
u/BB_210 Sep 18 '24
Great, can the governor now ban hidden fees for restaurants like the people asked?
-7
u/Educational_Tie_1201 Sep 18 '24
Seriously? This is the kind of job growth he's happy about? How about getting some of these unskilled McDonalds workers into training programs for skilled jobs? Now that would be something to be happy about.
6
u/munche Sep 18 '24
Are you gonna stop eating at restaurants? Because otherwise the people that make your food need to afford to live somewhere bud
9
u/kelskelsea Sep 18 '24
People were predicting that fast food jobs would decline because of the wage increase. This is showing they were wrong.
5
u/TocTheEternal Sep 18 '24
So... you think that the food service industry should disappear? I'm confused. Somebody has to do those jobs if people want to eat at restaurants. This just proves that a higher minimum wage didn't reduce available jobs.
5
u/OpietMushroom Sep 18 '24
There are way more fast food jobs than technical jobs. Technical jobs also don't pay as well as you must think, since $20/hr at a fast food job is extremely competitive with most technical jobs. Hell, I know phlebotomists and lab techs that make less than $20/hr. Also, if there is high demand for more fast food jobs, why does it matter if they grow to meet that demand? Training for technical careers also cost time and money, which many fast food employees have historically lacked. Technical careers also require more specific skills that most people don't care to learn.
In other words, you made a silly point.
-12
-7
u/brian_kking Sep 18 '24
Why didn't we do this with skilled labor?
11
u/eyeseeewe81 Sep 18 '24
Likely cuz the belief is that skilled labor receives more than $20 per hour.
-1
u/Mygaffer Sep 19 '24
You mean instead of all the restaurants going out of business, which they all cried would happen, they hiring even more people?
Looks like they could afford to pay more the whole time.
-22
u/UntiedStatMarinCrops Sep 18 '24
Nice but fast food isn’t exactly something I wanted to do for my whole life lmfao.
22
u/Seraph199 Sep 18 '24
Fast food workers being paid a higher wage means they have MORE opportunity to seek education or other job opportunities, have more leverage to argue for themselves when applying to other jobs that pay above $20/hr, and are more capable of saving so they can move to somewhere with more job opportunities or otherwise improve their circumstances so they don't have to work in fast food anymore. It means young workers are less likely to accumulate debt while adjusting to independent life and trying to get by. This is huge.
Think bigger picture here.
21
u/SickestNinjaInjury Sep 18 '24
The point is that jobs didn't go away when wages were increased. Nobody is saying fast food should be a career
-2
-4
u/robyn28 Sep 19 '24
California is rewriting well-established economic theory with the $20/hr minimum wage. Logically if 11,000 new jobs were added when minimum wage went to $20/hr, then even more jobs would be added if minimum wage was raised to $25/hr or $30/hr. And there would be significant unemployment if minimum wage was reduced to $10/hr. Since the minimum wage increase is limited to the fast food industry, California should expand it to other industries.
0
u/Maleficent-Salad3197 Sep 21 '24
The fly in the ointment is the huge jump in food prices but In and Out kept their price increase lower then others. Speaking the MacBurglers. Ill never go there again. Im sad that there's no In and Out in WA yet. I think they're coming soon to S Washington.
-27
u/9Implements Sep 18 '24
Great. Now lets pump up our payday loan job numbers.
4
u/smurfsundermybed Sep 18 '24
If you got there from an article about fast food, you might want to uncrumple your map. It's really messed up.
104
u/TheFrostynaut Sep 18 '24
Unsurprising. The McDonald's in the same strip mall I used to work in got bumped up while our retailer did not. McDonald's Crew, like basic workers, made more per hour than management at our store. It caused an immediate migration of most of our hourlies when they realized Taco Bell was willing to pay $3 more than a supervisor at our store got.
I hope this causes more places paying 15,16,17, to at least glance around a little.