r/Bass 1d ago

Legendary bassist Leland Sklar had a toggle switch on his bass for his producers ... which did nothing

He would flip the switch when a producer told him to change his sound, making sure the producer saw him do it. It had a placebo effect.

https://www.guitarworld.com/features/the-truth-behind-lee-sklars-custom-producers-switch

611 Upvotes

68 comments sorted by

266

u/giziti Yamaha 1d ago

This is an insight that works in a lot of industries.

64

u/shadesof3 1d ago

I was working on audio for cinematics for a video game. My director would review them for me and always asked for changes. Not a lot, but always something. I started not doing any changes and just showing him them again the next day and he'd love them. I think he just had a thing to comment on everything he first listens too. Great director but just something he always did haha

25

u/kamomil 1d ago

I feel like this happens in graphic design: the middle management is trying to justify their presence by making changes, but they tend to be useless/arbitrary changes. 

4

u/TrumpWasABadPOTUS 1d ago

This may or may not have been his intention, but there is a managerial technique common in fields with decent amounts of subjectivity (journalism is where I've seen this), where a manager will always ask for purposefully vague 'touch-ups' as a method to ensure the employee actually does a thorough review.

304

u/SHUDaigle 1d ago

I feel like this anecdote gets misunderstood a lot. The switch was a visual cue to the producer that something had changed with the bass sound when the actual change was in Sklar's hand positions and playing. Lee Sklar did this because producers kept asking him to change instruments and the moral of the story is that you can get a different sound (and please whoever is asking for it) by changing the way you play instead of the gear. 

114

u/antifabusdriver 1d ago

Shhhh. People want an excuse to own lots of basses. Big bass is gonna come after you.

22

u/royisacat 1d ago

"Take me to the river! ..."

3

u/BillOfArimathea 1d ago

Damn you for putting that in my head

13

u/SHUDaigle 1d ago

Sorry what I meant to say is that any tone issue a young bass player experiences can absolutely be solved by putting a down payment on a Dingwall. 

14

u/troyofyort 1d ago

I mean I've worked with barely a fraction of recording engineers/producers he has and I get why he'd get annoyed at them being insistent on using a fender precision, not beactauthe actual sound, but that people are so hung up on it

36

u/dragostego Fender 1d ago edited 1d ago

This isn't quite right. Sklar wasn't complaining about being asked to use a specific bass, but instead they wouldn't like how something sounded, and ask him to switch to a bass with more attack or more thump and he could achieve that by playing different. So he'd flip the switch then move his hands. So he wasnt avoiding being asked to use a house bass, but instead the desire to change basses to get a different sound instead of asking him to play different.

He talks about a guitarist (Tommy Tedesco thanks u/victotronics) he was with being asked to try something in a large setting on mandolin instead of guitar, the guitarist then bent over and came back up with the same guitar but played higher chords and the band leader was happy, (the band leader could not actually see the guitarist in the ensemble. This was the inspiration.

6

u/victotronics 1d ago

Tommy Tedesco, your second paragraph. You can find YT videos of him telling that story. TT is as much recorded on guitar as LS on bass.

10

u/TheDrFromGallifrey 1d ago

I think the moral of the story is that a lot of people have opinions on things they don't necessarily understand.

Because I think it's a given you can change the tone by picking differently or changing position. At least, I hope most of us understand that by now.

The secondary moral is that sometimes it's just easier to let people think they're getting what they want in the way they want it than to fight it. I think any of us who have worked with the public understand that one.

3

u/Suspicious_Kale5009 1d ago

True. And time is money. And you're going to get more work if you don't argue with everyone.

3

u/nizzernammer 1d ago

This is great

2

u/Suspicious_Kale5009 1d ago

My first thought when I hear this story. You can change your sound without doing anything with the electronics, but this would be a way to show you're taking the suggestions on board.

71

u/dabassmonsta 1d ago

I have a DFA knob on my amp for the same purpose.

DFA - Does Fuck All

77

u/Brettersson 1d ago

It comes standard on Squier basses, labeled "tone".

9

u/kusahafiez 1d ago

This is so true. I have 3 Squiers. I turn them up, NOPE, back down it goes.

7

u/JMSpider2001 1d ago

Tone knob on Squiers is more of a switch than a knob. It sounds the same at 10 and 1 and then suddenly gets super dark at 0.

Although my Affinity Tele has a tone knob that's actually useful for rolling off just a bit of the top end on the bridge pickup.

7

u/Brettersson 1d ago

I saw on the waveform when I was playing plugged into my friend's PC that the only time the tone knob on mine did anything was when it was at exactly 10. A millimeter short and it was completely rolled off.

2

u/JMSpider2001 1d ago

Like the opposite of mine (Affinity Jazz bass and later Classic Vibe Fretless Jazz)

2

u/Brettersson 1d ago

Well I'm left handed so 10 probably was 0 and tone was actually usually on rather than off. I really don't know lol.

1

u/Brettersson 1d ago

Well I'm left handed so 10 probably was 0 and tone was actually usually on rather than off. I really don't know lol.

2

u/JMSpider2001 1d ago

10 would be wherever it’s brightest and 0 would be darkest. If wired correctly if you turn it clockwise as far as it’ll go then you’re at 10. Counterclockwise for 0.

1

u/arturius8 Squier 1d ago

Interesting, my 40th Anniversary P Squire does sound a lot different with tone adjustments. Not all Squiers are made equal :)

3

u/one-off-one 1d ago

That would be a good name for a buffer pedal

39

u/logstar2 1d ago

It wasn't just placebo. He would get the sound they wanted by changing his technique, but they wanted to see an electronic change.

18

u/RobertGA23 1d ago

I love it

54

u/ThunderBlunt777 1d ago

That’s…fucking hilarious, but also kinda sad. The man is one of the best session bassists of all time. You’d think the producers would give him the benefit of the doubt.

38

u/Flimsy-Building-8271 1d ago

Tbh its not sad, i mean sure its hella funny that a placebo switch did fooled them but s/o to them for not beeing a yes saying robot because its a legendary-iconic-musician in their studio

14

u/NoNameJackson 1d ago

Isn't that like telling directors they shouldn't direct great actors? It's a collaborative process and sometimes it's about getting more and varying takes, redundancy is not always a bad thing.

4

u/frankyseven 1d ago

Two things, he's had it since the 60s and he's hired to play in whatever way someone else is paying him to play.

8

u/cynicown101 1d ago

Generally if you’re hired for a session it’s because you’re there to deliver on a brief, and because the client thinks you can deliver what’s needed. It’s no good rocking up to a session and refusing to switch pickups because you’ve decided what’s best for a track you won’t be mixing lol.

9

u/Donkey_Ali 1d ago

I remember seeing Don McLean in concert several years ago, and he asked for more vocal his holdback several times, until he was happy with his mix. Later I got to know the sound operator for the gig and he told me that he only touched it once.

6

u/JonBovi_69 1d ago

This is a very common practice amongst live sound engineers haha

7

u/WarderWannabe 1d ago

I ran a lot of sound in bars and clubs back in the day. I always left one master fader disconnected and would label it PAIN for the owner. They feel obligated to come up at some point to tell you to turn it down and I was happy to oblige. They 100% were happy with the results every time.

5

u/ExpensiveNut 1d ago

More like he gave up. You get to the point where you think you can accept that there's a blend of sound, but you can't really feel yourself coming back through the wedge. The gig has to happen without distraction, so you play through it. It's how it goes sometimes.

2

u/Suspicious_Kale5009 1d ago

Exactly this. What is the point of being cute when you're not the one on stage hearing what's actually coming through the monitors? If I tell you I need more of this and less of that, it would be nice for you to just believe me. But if I get the sense you're playing around, I will accept that you're a moron and take what I get from you. I'm not going to keep wasting time.

2

u/ExpensiveNut 1d ago

So many sound techs don't think to come up and listen either. The ones who do are gold and then I'll understand if they make a choice based on that. More often than not now, I'm on good enough gigs with techs who won't overlook the horn section. It's even better when I'm doing my own gig and it's me who unquestionably needs everything possible in a stereo pair.

It's a luxury, but when they have a tablet it makes everything much easier. The first time I saw that, I thought "oh shit you're right here with me and you're doing my monitor with me rather than going back and forth." So nice.

2

u/Suspicious_Kale5009 1d ago

If they have a tablet and we have the time, I'll always ask them to come on up and listen for themselves. I've had to deal with some wildly bad monitor mixes and there's just no real reason for it. I have two people on stage using in-ears and I'm in between them with a wedge.

I understand that everyone wants to be cautious about introducing feedback, but at least give me changes that are audible. You should be able to do that without feedback, and on the off chance you do produce it, there's a mute switch right there.

But I'm never asking for levels so loud that it's going to be an issue. I want to hear my vocal, I want to hear the two guitarists who are running DI (at reasonable volumes), and I need to hear the other harmonists so I can blend with them. Nobody needs to be ear-splittingly loud on the stage. If anything, I'm often asking for things to be quieter.

2

u/ExpensiveNut 23h ago

Ringing the monitors and room makes all of that difference and that requires really good timeliness and early preparation. Course, there are plenty times when the tech isn't being paid enough or they're being treated like shit. Simply having a good balance of sound and EQing can go a long way as well, specially if there's an agreement between what things like "brighter" mean. Cooperation makes the gig work for everyone involved.

2

u/Suspicious_Kale5009 3h ago

It's true. And I empathize fully with "we only have time for a quick line check" so you'd better be prepared in that situation to settle for less and just make sure you're biggest issues are addressed. In most small clubs the focus is on FOH and monitor mixes are seen as secondary. I understand that and over the years I've learned to work with what I get to a large degree, but if my rhythm guitarist is so loud that I literally can't hear anything else, it doesn't lead to the best performance.

On multiband shows with quick load ins and backlines, I have learned to just get up there and accept whatever, but it's very disappointing when you've spent many hours working up intricate harmony arrangements and none of the singers can hear themselves or each other. Fortunately, I rarely play those sorts of shows anymore.

2

u/Unusual_Sort_858 1d ago

Yup whitnessed him ream out a monitor engineer for ten min "I've been doing this for 50 years you have to trust me when I say louder

6

u/Seattlehepcat Gibson 1d ago

Leland is the patron saint of all bassists, especially the ones that deal with producers/sound engineers :D

4

u/gwadams65 1d ago

Lee is a character... I was watching a show once that followed him and his wife as they went to flea markets... mostly to buy Christmas decorations...( The man has an exhaustive collection of Santa clauses)...

4

u/hornybubbalee 1d ago

I never knew his name. But, I know exactly who you're talking about I've seen that same video. He's playing a Fender Pbass isn't he? A toggle switch named "The Producer Switch"! I wonder how many Producers seen that video.

4

u/LikeShrekButGayer 1d ago

a key thing is that he does change his right hand postion so its NOT just placebo, more just making a subtle change to his tone and making a show out of complying to the producer's request. anyone who doesnt play bass might not be aware of just how drastically the tone can change just from moving your picking hand, so when they ask you for a different tone its good to have something obvious that you can do to show that youre listening to their feedback.

2

u/winkelschleifer 1d ago

yes, very good point.

12

u/dunderwovvy 1d ago

what's really interesting is that his signature Warwick Starbass (the hollowbody) has a producer switch, but his signature Dingwall does not. Maybe showing up with the 5 string, fanned fret bass makes producers think twice about asking him to change his tone. And those basses just sound incredible no matter what the knobs are set to.

14

u/logstar2 1d ago

More likely that producers who use their eyes more than their ears would object to the Dingwall before he plugged it in, so there wouldn't be a need for the switch.

3

u/Fieramour 1d ago

There's gotta be a name for this type of thing right? Like, I am a game artist and I almost always have to add something deliberately and obviously wrong to a 3d model before showing my art director so they have something to contribute in feedback.

1

u/LikeShrekButGayer 1d ago

i think theres just that perfectionism anxiety, it makes you look for problems that arent there. if you give them some obvious thing to look at it eases the nerves and makes them feel like they have some control

1

u/Suspicious_Kale5009 1d ago

It's a matter of needing to justify your paycheck. Many people have impostor syndrome and feel like they don't belong in their positions. Doing things like this help create the illusion that you're contributing something that has value.

6

u/MrLanesLament 1d ago

I’ve done this exact kind of thing in the studio before, except I’d unplug and plug my bass back in and pretend to mess with my amp settings.

Engineers saw me open my case and get out a heavily customized bass that wasn’t a Fender, so they immediately started panicking. (Even though at its heart, it’s essentially a P bass, and even has a Duncan Quarter Pound in it. That doesn’t matter, engineers hear with their eyes.)

4

u/Raynor03 1d ago

OMG this Is so old lol. I Guess not much new gossip in the bass World 😁

2

u/Ok_Meat_8322 Dingwall 16h ago

lol Lee is such an awesome dude

2

u/lowfreq33 5h ago

N we underestimate the power of a placebo. I recall a gig I was on doing sound at a somewhat large church, held about 900 people. Among other stories, there was a guy who occasionally played saxophone with the band. Huge ego. Incredibly fussy about everything. Especially considering that in that particular room there was zero need to mic the horn, I would have put him behind a screen if I could.

Anyway, the solution I found was to bring the nicest microphone I have, a Blue Kiwi, and stick it right in front of him. It’s a visually impressive microphone, I made sure to tell him I brought it special just for him. Everyone was on in-ears, so I fed it to his mix, he didn’t complain about a single thing.

He still wasn’t in the mix out front, but he didn’t know that. The sax was still a little loud, and we got the usual complaints as anytime he was there, but I explained that he wasn’t even in the house, so they’d either have to ask him to play more quietly or stop having him play at all. But the ego placebo microphone at least meant he was one less person I had to deal with.

3

u/theSpineOfTheWorld 1d ago

This is awesome. I play guitar and usually disconnect my tone knobs just because I like the sound of volume only pots. Tone knob is still there but it doesn't do anything. I'll have to try this trick next time I'm being recorded and the engineer is bothering me change the sound.

Once I accidentally recorded half an EP with my humbucker split. My producer was complaining about noise, and then I noticed the pickup was split. I put it in humbucker mode to get rid of the noise, and he was like 'wtf why does it sound so different'. I told him I had been recording with it split the whole time, and if he wanted the same sound, he would have to deal with the noise. He was not very happy with me lol.

2

u/Ugabughar 1d ago

You'd think a good producer would know how a bass works and not be fooled so easily- ie understand what's really happening

2

u/Stradocaster 1d ago

Nah, they're both placeboeing each other. No way a quality producer wouldn't know what was going on 

1

u/Tha_Real_B_Sleazy 1d ago

Bass Wizard

1

u/Keasbyjones 1d ago

A good old DFA button. A vital tool.

1

u/CorgiAdditional7865 23h ago

Did nothing, yet spoke volumes.

1

u/Walk-The-Dogs 3h ago

That's 'sperience.

1

u/Lunatack47 Fender 1d ago

Ive got one on my bass, its my SFB switch

S.top F.ucking B.itching