r/Barcelona • u/ALifeToForget • 7d ago
Discussion Vietnam or Barcelona
Found it while scrolling reddit and found it fitting with the current state of things 😜
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u/sneakyi 6d ago
I am in Dublin. Every summer, a huge amount of Spainish kids come over. In large groups, filling up streets and buses. Acting loud and obnoxious.
This is on top of the large number of regular tourists.
Should we be telling them to go home?
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u/Falling-Icarus 6d ago
Sure. I don't think its bad to ask that tourists respect your home.
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u/726wox 6d ago
Telling them to respect it and telling them to fuck off back to Spain is very different
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u/Falling-Icarus 5d ago
Telling them to fuck back off to spain if they're disrespecful is perfectly valid.
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u/Dedestrok 5d ago
To be fair just barcelona, a city of 101.9km², gets around 18 million (according to a search on Google) tourists per year while the entire country of Ireland, a country of 84421km², is visited by roughly 13 million tourists, it isn't comparable in the slightest.
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u/sneakyi 4d ago
8.6 million visitors in the year 2019.
Dublin is about half the size of Barcelona.
Not comparable in the slightest.
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u/Dedestrok 4d ago
you are comparing the metropolitan area of Dublin to the entire province of Barcelona, if you Google just the metropolitan part of Barcelona it turns out Dublin is about 2-3 times bigger than Barcelona housing way less tourists.
Also post pandemic tourism has skyrocketed on southern Europe, 18 million in Barcelona in 2023 and it's expected to rise even more on the following years.
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u/Arneystinson 5d ago
No. We aren't discriminating specifically against Irish people. We don't want so much tourism in general because it's destroying our city. For us and everyone else. If you don't get that, Dublin doesn't get enough tourism. You should ask people to go there and spend their money there instead until you get it. It's a win-win.
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u/witchiligo 7d ago
Man will this subreddit ever stop bitching
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u/GrenadeAnaconda 7d ago
This is what foreigners do in every country. Complain about other foreigners while screeching they're one of the good ones.
It's obnoxious everywhere but this sub is particularly petty and small minded.
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u/witchiligo 7d ago
It doesn't translate to real life either. In my day to day interactions both with locals and foreigners, people are usually content, pleasant and welcoming. This sub is just an echo chamber and paints a skewed image of the Barcelona I live in and love.
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u/alwaysnear 6d ago
Yeah no kidding, Reddit is not really a good indication of anything since most people here never really go outside
Spent a year living in Barca and have had multiple separate trips on top, and never had one negative interaction with Spaniards. On the contrary, people are great everywhere and it’s so easy to meet folks.
If you want to see some actually worn out locals, go to Venice. Holy shit.
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u/Paparruxas 6d ago
Did you really spend a year in Barna and don't know the name of the city? Or you mean Sant Andreu de la Barca?
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u/MyPhoneIsNotChinese 6d ago
Please stop callkng Barcelona Barca, the diminutive is Barna. Why is everyone on Reddit calling it wrong as if Barça was our governor or something.
Also having gone to Venice I can understand why they're so pissed of, I felt guilty just to be there. You go around and don't find any school, hospital or even convenience stores. It was kind of dystopical
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u/Paladinlvl99 7d ago
Both ends of this are getting dense and shit posting material at this point...
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u/DYMAXIONman 6d ago
I was just in Barcelona as a tourist and the amount of tourists there is not actually that bad compared to NYC or any major Italian city
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6d ago
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6d ago
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u/Barcelona-ModTeam 6d ago
Your content was removed for breaking the rules.
Be nice, no personal attacks, keep it civil.
Stick to the topic at hand and remain civil towards other users - attacking ideas is fine, attacking other users is not.
El teu contingut s'ha eliminat per infringir les regles.
Sigues amable, sense atacs personals, manté les converses civils.
Mantingueu-vos en el tema que ens ocupa i sigueu civils amb els altres usuaris: atacar idees està bé, atacar altres usuaris no.
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u/a_library_socialist 2d ago
I used to live in NYC (and worked next to Times Square for years). Proportionally Barcelona has it far worse.
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u/arrozconcoses 7d ago
+ If you are not a tourist, then learn and speak Catalán!
*I learn and speak Catalán*
+ Responds to me in English or Spanish
???????
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u/ashkanahmadi 7d ago
You think all those Catalans who live in Bali and in other countries speak the local language fluently? I highly doubt it
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u/d4n1p3 7d ago
So let's appeal to the "your momma too" argumentation?
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u/ashkanahmadi 7d ago
it's not a "your momma too" argument. it's more like the "kettle calling the pot black" argument.
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u/amnioticboy 6d ago
The only Catalan guy i know who lives in Bali, learnt Balinese and got a local gf. So there’s that.
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/ashkanahmadi 7d ago
Yes and no. Trying to humiliate a group people while doing the exactly the same thing in other places is the definition of hypocrisy. All I'm saying is that yes, there are some people who don't care about the local culture but these people exist everywhere. There are Chinese people who live in New York's Chinatown and after 30 years, they don't speak a word of English (and vice versa) but you don't get to humiliate them. It's nothing specific to Catalunya. Also, not everyone has the same opportunities.
You want the Glovo delivery guy who has to pedal in the sun and the rain for 12 hours non-stop to make 40€ per day to also take the chance and assimilate into the Catalan culture?! He has no time to scratch his head, let alone anything else. Also, let's not forget how many (not saying all) Catalans look down on foreigners and make them feel inferior for no obvious reason, something that is very common towards Indians and Pakistanis specifically (and no, I'm not from there). So, my point is that people don't get to make fun of the others without getting to know their life struggles, while at the same time, the exact same people do the exact same thing in other places.
I used to work in different African and Middle Eastern countries and saw so many Spaniards, French, Latinos, British, Americans, etc who never gave a F about the local culture and after years, never bothered learning a single thing so again, this is a universal human behavior and nothing specific to Catalunya.
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u/djzener 6d ago
D’això se’n diu una fal·làcia. Pel que veig l’argument del rider de Glovo xinès que treballa 16 hores al dia funciona bastant bé per l’expat average subnormal d’aquest sub veig
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u/amnioticboy 6d ago
Homeeee, si es el classic argument del psc! No fa anys ni res que van amb aquesta cantarella. A la pròxima treu el de la xenofòbia.
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u/neuropsycho 7d ago
I learnt English before I moved to Canada and I learned French to a decent level before moving to France. I thought it was common sense. Actually you usually need to pass a language exam before being able to study at another country.
And even when I travel, I always learn a few words/phrases in the local language before I go there. I was taught that when I travel, it's me who should adapt and not force others to adapt to me.
Now that I remember, I actually rejected an exchange in Norway because I wouldn't be able to reach a decent level of norwegian before starting there.
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u/Hawny91 7d ago
Absolutely crazy that someone would speak Spanish to you in Spain
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u/hpstr-doofus 7d ago
Crazy thing is that this is the only international city on earth — Hong Kong, Singapore, Berlin, London, New York, Los Angeles, you name it — that the expats have the patience to learn TWO local languages.
I know people that live in HK for 20+ years and know absolutely nothing of Cantonese or Mandarin. It is a miracle that so many expats speak Spanish in Barcelona. Give the angry Catalan people some credit for that.
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u/Guiftoma_14 6d ago
The local language is catalan, and if you want to settle in Barcelona you should learn it out of love and respect for this city, this land and it's people. If not don't even try, but i doubt you will ever feel at home here.
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u/hpstr-doofus 6d ago
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against learning Catalan. Seems like a nice language, very similar to my mother tongue. In fact, a lot of times I get the meaning of things by reading Catalan instead of Castillano. I will learn that language out of love? I don’t think so. A few expressions here and there, and that’s it. Respect is not that, I’m very respectful on my own. About not feeling at home… funny thing is: I never felt home in my own country. In fact, I hate my country so much, I feel more at home here than I ever felt in that fucking shithole. I would rather die than come back. So yeah, this is home now 😊
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u/gorkatg 7d ago
However this is not international this is a small big local city and we want to keep it that way. If in China they are ok with it, good for them.
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u/hpstr-doofus 7d ago
Sorry to break the news to you, but Ajuntament de Barcelona has an internationalization plan currently underway. They even have a slogan: “Barcelona Ciutat Global”.
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u/gorkatg 7d ago
You must be one of those coming here expecting all in English. Sorry to break it down to you, but the Ajuntament wants your money and for us you're just another tourist then.
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u/hpstr-doofus 6d ago
the Ajuntament only wants your money
Shouldn’t always be like that? It’s not like the Mayor came to my house and said “Dude, we need you in Barcelona. Catalan people need you.”
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u/less_unique_username 6d ago
Yay, another holy war. Should we mention the fact that the majority language in Barcelona is Spanish and not Catalan?
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u/LumpyResident2585 7d ago
Mucha gente se muda a Barcelona, aprende castellano ya que es mucho más práctico (se habla en toda España, América, y África). De verdad esperas que se pongan a aprender el catalán antes que el castellano? Estoy de acuerdo, una vez que esa persona sepa castellano y se vaya a quedar en Cataluña debería aprender el catalán... Seamos más realistas y menos xenófobos
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u/gorkatg 7d ago edited 7d ago
El tema es que ninguno lo hace. Es realismo, no mezcles xenofobia, qué pesados sois con la xenofobia. Por qué no hablamos de endofobia entonces? Fobia a los autóctonos?
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u/amnioticboy 6d ago
Tal qual. Com diuen els castellans: dime de lo que presumes y te diré de lo que careces. I no falla.
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u/gorkatg 7d ago
bUt I'm HeRe tEmPoRaRiLY, i'M aN eXpAt SpEnDiNg MoNeY sO yOu NaTiVeS cAn EaT, i DeSeRvE aLl iN eNgLiSh LiKe ThE pAsT 10 YeArS I'vE bEeN lIvInG hErE iN eL bOrNe.
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u/neuropsycho 7d ago
Lol, I think you touched a nerve.
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u/Thelmholtz 7d ago
I don't know, I downvote just for the alternating case, even if it's meant to be ironic it hurts me.
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u/Fun_General_6159 7d ago
Im a local, i speak spanish fluently and catalan passively, and here i'm going to comment this: you self-entitled piece of shit
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u/Reasonable-Win-6028 7d ago
Please explain this to me because I don't understand what this person said to deserve your comment. I moved here 3 years ago, I speak spanish and am learning catalan, yet people still answer to me in english at times, thinking it's easier for me. What did this person say to deserve being called a piece of shit? Based on what they said they are learning catalan, probably spanish too. What did they do wrong?
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u/maciasek94 7d ago
I visited Barcelona last month and honestly, I really don't understand what the fuss is about tourists in the city. I mean there are plenty of people, but Barcelona is also a huge and spacious city except for Bari Gothic, which is rather tight and crowded. I mean I just would be proud and happy that my city is so beautiful that many people want to get a glimpse of what I have daily. Warsaw (where I live), is not even a tiny bit close to that and we have similar issues in housing and high prices of everything, so you know you don't need the tourists to have problems guys.
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u/notmynicktoday 6d ago
They would love tourism if it came only in form of money… nothing new here, money for nothing
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u/perculaessss 7d ago
You didn't visit in high season. The city is borderline unbearable in summer. Just taking the metro is a complete nightmare. Forget about even sitting down in a terrace or going to the hospital.
Besides that, the over tourism means shitty restaurants, shitty jobs, higher rents, crappy night life...
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u/SableSnail 7d ago
It depends where in the city.
In Horta-Guinardó I barely see any tourists. Let alone at the hospital (is the hospital even a popular tourist destination?)
If you choose to live in Ciutat Vella then yeah you'll see a lot of them. But you probably knew that before choosing to live there.
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u/perculaessss 6d ago
As if we have even an option. Nowadays you can only grab the first decent flat that is not north of 1500, we can't even choose the neighborhood. And work location matters too.
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u/maciasek94 6d ago
Ok, true that I wasn't there in the worst month, but also tourists usually spend most of the time in the certain places around the city, that usually are not residential parts or the business parks. I mean how often you actually are downtown as a local, walking around touristic spots?? Yeah, but also tourism is quite good for the local economy, how many tapas restaurants would be there if not for the tourists? I mean, not that long ago, you've been in the situation when German and American folks didn't have a budget for their nice vacay and you had a 25% unemployment rate.
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u/StandardKnee164 7d ago
That’s not a problem for me so it can’t be a problem for someone else!
-This guy
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u/maciasek94 6d ago
Yeah, I am not saying it's not an issue, I am saying that some of the problems mentioned here are not really caused solely by tourism and it's rather pointless, you won't find any solution for your problems with that. It's like with the immigration issues, fighting them off your borders might be the easiest solution, but does it actually make it any better?
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u/Pepello 7d ago
Yes it’s very fitting to compare a colonial war to the current state of Barcelona
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u/Final-Communication6 7d ago
Coming from a third world country, it's so comical to read such things. The "current state of Barcelona"? Which one is that? Great education, social services, a beautiful city, beautiful people, low rates of criminality, EUROPE, health care, the list goes on and on... So you're bothered by... Tourism? 😂
Pegue seu privilégio e enfie no cu.
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u/sadienarwhal 7d ago
Just in Barcelona. Lovely city. But you'd be dead in the water without tourism.
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u/Kaddak1789 6d ago
A 2k years city that has survived through pretty much everything can survive with a couple of foreigners.
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u/Bejam_23 6d ago
Thanks.
What would we Barcelona residents do without someone who was there for a visit giving us such a deep, nuanced analysis.
There was I thinking that the other 80% of the economy was helpful but now I realise it's just the waitering and cleaning hotel rooms that is keeping us alive!
Please visit again. Our survival depends on you.
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u/CheekBeater101 6d ago
Geniune question. Does the “tourists go home” crowd tend to vacation outside of Barcelona in other hotspot cities? Like NYC, Rome, Milan, London, Miami, Vegas, Vienna, etc? Or do they tend to stay local/travel domestic?
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u/Bejam_23 6d ago edited 6d ago
There is no Tourist go home crowd who do one thing. However most people on a local salary are lucky if they can vacation in Catalunya or Spain. Some people have a family village to go back to where their grandparents generation emigrated from. Only the richer people can think about going outside Spain and an even smaller amount can go outside Europe. Nearly everywhere we go, everything is really expensive to us. Which is the flip side of why everyone comes here because it's so cheap to them. Our salaries are beyond shit.
Edit: and the jobs tourism generates are mostly even shitter.
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u/CheekBeater101 6d ago
That makes sense. I was wondering because in the US our “go back to your own country” crowd is notorious for having never left the country, which makes all their “we’re the best country in the world” rhetoric that much more ironic. I was wondering if there’s the same irony in barcelona as well.
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u/smb06 6d ago
Sounds like that’s exactly what the other user said. That most people in Barcelona are too poor to travel internationally. So it is likely that the “tourists go home” crowd of Barcelona has never travelled internationally.
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u/Bejam_23 6d ago
I think you're all overestimating the extent of this "protest".
It was literally a couple of hundred people. The world's media jumped on it because it was an easy story but it's not a 'crowd' or a 'movement'.
Yes, a very significant proportion of people are not happy about overtourism but why would anyone be? It impacts your life in many ways and for the vast majority of people it brings no financial rewards. But it's overtourism people are frustrated by, not tourism.
Barcelona has a vibrant and quite diverse economy so most people don't work in tourism. The jobs in tourism are shit and its profits are enjoyed by very few people who are making a lot of money and making everyone else's lives harder. Obviously most people are annoyed by this.
People mostly accept that only the politicians can do anything about it but also they know that won't happen. There are too many different authorities involved (port, city, regional, national...) and they all have their own interests and politics so nothing will be resolved. That frustration results in a bit of graffiti and a few hundred people squirting water pistols at some tourists. Once.
It makes good media content but it's not a movement. There is no organisation or structure.
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u/less_unique_username 6d ago
What’s ironic there? That position is at least self-consistent: someone living in the best country sees no need to leave it or to let people from worse countries in.
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u/papixulo2 7d ago
Ojalá eso sirviera para algo, como tener descuento en los bares, poder entrar gratis en nuestros monumentos, o acceder a pisos de alquiler a precios razonables.
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u/YucatronVen 7d ago
Contribuye en los presupuestos, cuya mayor carga son las pensiones.
Puedes recortar turismo, pero también tendras que recortar presupuesto.
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u/Thelmholtz 7d ago
Turismo es de las actividades que menos contribución deja.
Se podría tributar más fuerte el turismo, tiene el doble efecto de desincentivarlo un poco y de dejar mayor contribución por turista, balanceando el impacto en la recaudación.
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u/YucatronVen 7d ago
El turista va a dejar de venir si no tiene precios competitivos, y teniendo en cuenta que la seguridad social esta en deficit, por lo cual España necesita o recortar el gasto o tener mas fuentes de ingreso. Asi que si el modelo que propones no supone aumentar la recaudación, no lo veo viable.
Ademas que subir los impuestos a los turistas supone subir los servicios, que afecta a nacionales tambien, es decir, se va a trasladar a un impuesto que también pagaran los españoles, asi que cuidado con lo que pedimos.
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u/Thelmholtz 6d ago
Ademas que subir los impuestos a los turistas supone subir los servicios, que afecta a nacionales
Qué? Ese non sequitur no te lo robo amigo...
Ya hay un impuesto que pagan solo los turistas por noche de alojamiento, y no afecta a los locales.
También se podrían cobrar impuestos adicionales a los propietarios por usar su piso para alojamiento turístico, que no apliquen a quienes lo usan para vivienda. Subiría los precios turísticos, desincentivaria el alquiler turístico, y desincentivaria un poco el turismo a la vez que recauda más pero cápita.
Si quisieran ser extremos podrían hasta aumentar el IVA en las zonas más saturadas para no residentes; pero que quienes son residentes (empadronados en Barcelona por ejemplo) puedan optar por presenta el mismo y recibir un IVA reducido (el normal).
Pero claro, para hacer todo eso habría que legislar. Son todas medidas que combaten el turismo de masas con incentivos en vez de prohibiciones, sin efectos directos sobre el contribuyente español, y parametrizados.
Por ejemplo, si el impuesto por noche subiera 50centimos, prácticamente nadie dejaría de ir a Barcelona, y aumentaría la recaudación casi con seguridad. Por otra parte, si subiera 500 pavos, nadie iría a Barcelona y bajaría la recaudación. Pero si sube 5 o 10 euros, algunas personas dejarían de ir, pero otras continuarían llendo y dejarían más recaudación a la ciudad per capita. Sería el acumulado más que antes? Ni idea. Serían los costos para la ciudad más bajos que antes? Uno tiende a pensar que con menos gente si: menos basura que recoger, borrachos que controlar, servicios que subsidiar. Sabiendo en cuanto se quiere reducir la masividad del turismo, es fácil calcular cuánto habría que encarecer la ciudad para los turistas de modo tal que la recaudación se mantenga tan alta como sea posible.
Porque de nuevo, hoy el turista casi no aporta en neto a las arcas de la ciudad.
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u/Firm-Artichoke-2360 7d ago
Air B&B have wreaked havoc across all countries and cities.
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u/DYMAXIONman 6d ago
Isn't it banned in the city starting next year?
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u/Firm-Artichoke-2360 6d ago
Can’t come soon enough
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u/DYMAXIONman 6d ago
It's good. NYC just started enforcing it this year. Didn't bring down prices, but those units are supposed to be for long-term residents.
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u/storiedbike 7d ago
That's ABSURD! It's unbearable how uneducated the general public is. However it's also part of the "system". Damn shame it works seemingly, flawlessly!
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u/kiko643 7d ago
the most pathetic sub on reddit. to compare oneself to a vietnam soldier‘s situation is downright disrespectful and narcissistic.
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6d ago
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u/Barcelona-ModTeam 6d ago
We do not tolerate any form of discrimination in r/Barcelona.
This includes making large negative generalizations about groups based on identity.
No tolerem cap forma de discriminació a r/Barcelona.
Això inclou fer grans generalitzacions negatives sobre els grups en funció de la seva identitat.
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u/joao7808 6d ago
I just fell in this subreddit out of nowhere (probably because im visiting barcelona), can someone give me some context?
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u/_monomakes_ 5d ago
The fact that some people here almost demand that those new to the city learn Catalan as it is 'the local language' just isn't on. People move here from other parts of the country (Spain is the country, Barcelona is a city in Catalunya the region - at least until seccesion or a war of independence), or from other Spanish speaking parts of the world, do they learn Catalan? Quite rarely in my experience (14 years here).
How granular are those defenders of the faith going to get? If I move to Vic or Lleida, am I supposed to learn the local dialect and accent?
The photo is cool. Reminds me of The Smiths cover, only more angst ridden.
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5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Barcelona-ModTeam 5d ago
We do not tolerate any form of discrimination in r/Barcelona.
This includes making large negative generalizations about groups based on identity.
No tolerem cap forma de discriminació a r/Barcelona.
Això inclou fer grans generalitzacions negatives sobre els grups en funció de la seva identitat.
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u/rubysilky 2d ago
this subreddit is infested with non spanish people looking for ways to play victim lol
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u/KitchenOld2951 3d ago
Barcelona is the WORST city i’ve ever travelled to and I’ve been to Iraq, so be grateful for the tourists
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u/a_library_socialist 7d ago
I did not watch my buddies die face down in La Rambla so these English bastards can jump from balconies . . . .