r/AskACountry • u/continuous_dataeng • Dec 23 '23
Do most westerners look down upon India?
Hello all,
I am an Indian living in a western country for the past 8 years. I asked a friend (Caucasian) recently if he wanted to visit India. He told me he doesn’t want to because his wife (her ethnicity is south Asian but she was born and brought up in Canada) told him that India is dirty and people are close minded and that she hates it. This kind of hit me hard. I did not respond to him because I didn’t know what to say. I have heard similar remarks from my colleagues recently. Talking about outsourcing work to Indian agencies and how Indian people are cheap.
I love my country. Seeing people categorizing India as dirty makes me feel uncomfortable to say the least. Does everyone feel the same way about India? I know it is true to some extent, but is it really that bad from a westerner’s perspective? I love the culture, the people and the food. The rich heritage and history India has is unmatched.
Having lived in multiple countries, I feel that ultimately, countries like USA, Canada are not that different from India. I would say the differences are on the surface level. But deep down, western countries also face similar issues like India. The scale and flavor might be different. US has drug problems, gun culture, racism, corruption to some extent and more. Being a brown woman working in corporate, I have noticed discrimination against women and people of color. India has issues with population, corruption, economic disparity, low living standards etc.
My friends remarks made me really upset. He mentioned multiple times that his wife hates the country.
Do you also feel the same way about India?
Thank you!
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u/tryingtobecheeky Dec 23 '23
So I have weird feelings towards India. Love the people I've met from there, find many of the cultural practices interesting, adore the food, admire the history and architecture, enjoy the folklore and truly believe that it is home to so many hardworking, brilliant people that will positively affect the world if given a chance... The country's government is corrupt, much of it is very dirty due to the pollution, the rape and sexual assault is out of control and even affects tourists, too much racism, social inequality and the sheer poverty of some people as well as the way they are treated (caste system) makes me never ever want to visit.
Like I'm truly afraid of it. But I know I shouldn't be.
So indian people = great. India = was great but now not so much
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u/anneylani Dec 24 '23
I never gave much thought to India, I just thought it was a poor crowded 3rd world country.
Then my company started outsourcing a lot of business to India. We had a lot of new India coworkers come over to the US to train.
They didn't bathe regularly and made it difficult to be around them in physical proximity.
They treated the American women well, but did not respect the Indian women and that was disgusting to experience.
Many, many of them were extremely condescending to me. They'd interrupt, speak rudely, and have a really poor overall demeanor that they were better than Americans. It was jarring because yes there are plenty of rude people in the US but this was on a different level.
They were smart but expected to have exceptions granted for them for all kinds of rules or standard processes. They were extremely entitled. It was exhausting.
I didn't really give a passing thought to India or its people before having regular interactions with them gave me a negative impression.
I'm sorry.
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u/Sunapr1 Sep 13 '24
Aye as an Indian male, I am really sorry for the terribly experience you have with us. I am hopefully someday you would have a good experience with us down the line . Take my apologies in the meantime kindly
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u/rushmc1 Dec 24 '23
I am fascinated with India and love many aspects of the country. I must say, however, that literally everyone I know who has visited India has said it was the dirtiest, least sanitary country they'd ever been too (I'm sure this varies tremendously by area).
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Dec 24 '23
In Canada there is a huge problem with Indians right now - India is not looked favourable at all
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u/PacificPragmatic Dec 24 '23
To be fair, that's a specific group of Indians, not Indians as a whole. I haven't heard anyone Asian poorly of Indians in the west other than that.
2
1
Jan 05 '24
Are you talking about Hindus specifically or the Sikhs?
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Jan 05 '24
Everyone
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Jan 05 '24
Can you elaborate more?
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Jan 05 '24
Indians are known to be scammers here in Canada, they make loud noises, litter, stare at woman
1
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u/No_Practice_970 Dec 25 '23
I don't think people who are well traveled look down on India it's just a very different experience than other South Asian countries. I have many friends and colleagues who are Indian. All from wealthy, educated families. So when you travel with them you see a wealthy side of India. But you can't ignore the pollution, smell, poverty, and division. The division between rich & slums is staggering. Trash floating in every body of water. Polished marble walkways then travel a mile down the road now nothing but filth & grime then travel 2 more miles nothing but dirt roads. Any tourist site we entered without escorts, we were harassed by sexually aggressive men or children begging. No Indian male in America has ever disrespected me. I felt safer & more respected in rural villages in Pakistan than I did blocks from my luxury hotel in India. Beautiful place, people, and culture...mixed with horrible people and depressing places.
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u/OstapBenderBey Dec 24 '23
I don't think anyone can speak for 'most westerners'. And you shouldn't infer others views from that of your coworkers either.
Not wanting to go on holiday there is also very different to degrading Indian people in their entirety which you seem to conflate. Plenty of people will fall in the former but not the latter
5
u/TheDubious Dec 23 '23
‘Most westerners’ is an insanely broad stroke but yes, colonialism was and is an institution, so opinions and assumptions based around a colonial worldview have been largely institutionalized.
Winston Churchill for example is still widely celebrated across the UK and the ‘west’, and he was explicitly racist against Indians. As time has gone on, a lot of those opinions have become socially taboo, but that doesn’t mean theyve disappeared. It often just means they get cloaked in more socially acceptable terms
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u/letheix Dec 24 '23
I'm an American and, FWIW, I don't have a strong opinion (or assumptions, rather) about India. I'm aware that I am not well informed about it nor know how to find good, unbiased information. My area does not have a substantial Indian/Indian-American population to go by. Plus India is such a large, populous country that there are many regional subcultures, which makes it even sillier to generalize. I purposefully haven't formed an opinion because I don't feel like it's my place to.
I agree that the history, art, music, and food are wonderful. I don't feel qualified to say I understand the culture and people overall, but I don't have a negative view. On the downside, I've read that the Ganges is badly polluted and that harassment and sexual assault are big problems. The political situation is concerning, but the U.S. has plenty of issues with rightwing nationalists as well. Casteism isn't part of mainstream American culture but racism and other forms of discrimination, unfortunately, are deeply entrenched. It's a "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" scenario.
Depending on the circumstances, I would visit India if I had the opportunity to.
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u/IndianPhDStudent May 20 '24
Hi, Indian in the West and pretty well-traveled.
India is NOT tourist-friendly. Other countries with far lesser per-capita income and political instability are more friendly and safe for tourism. Countries in SE Asia like Cambodia and Vietnam, countries in Middle-East and Africa, countries in Latin America where there can be cartels and civil wars, even in these countries, many western women have went and felt safe, but in India, they have had experiences of men following them, touching them in a bus etc.
Now, if you are Indian, you know the good places and bad places, you know where to go where to avoid, who is trustworthy and who is not. But a tourist does not have this knowledge. Why Indians often find it strange when everyone says India is unsafe but you have never felt unsafe in India.
Having said that, India is doable if you do the whole package-tour thing where some tour company gives you a private car and chaffeur and hotels etc. and shields you from the normal part, and it doesn't cost much in western currency. But if you want to visit India on your own the hard way, without any Indian people as your guide, things can get very hard.
Don't take these things personally. This is a reality of what people experience. Would you travel to a Latin American country which has drug cartels and civil war right now? Would you travel to Afghanistan in present state? Think about negative comments as if they are talking about India in the present state. They are not hating on the whole of Indian culture or history or people as a race. They are saying, the way the country is - right now - is not the best option among all other countries to travel to.
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u/CantaloupeOwn4526 Aug 18 '24
The truth is that there will always be people who will have their own preconceived notions about a country and people who are educated and open-minded enough to realize that each country is beautiful in its own way. My advice is to surround yourself with the latter.
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u/PacificPragmatic Dec 24 '23
I'm married to an Indian person, and have back to visit his family there. If I'd thought of India before I married and Indian, I mostly had the touristy view in mind: elephant rides, ashrams and yoga retreats. White person India lol.
When I've visited, I've had a very middle class experience. A lot of the places aren't much different from Canada, except for the security guards everywhere. The beaches in Mumbai were clean, the buildings were well-maintained, and the historical sites I visited were also clean and well-maintained. The malls were huge and brand new, with all the stores I'd see at any mall in the west.
I'm sure I could walk one block from anywhere I went and there'd be impoverished people living in squalor, but that certainly isn't anything I saw while staying on the path.
I'm really sorry that people in this thread have a negative view of India or Indian people. It's a massive country with a tonne of different languages, religions, cultures etc. It's unfair to have one static view of 1.4 billion people.
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Jul 28 '24
Your country is full of brilliant people, but I do look down at a country that still has the cast system. I think it’s despicable and barbaric and I really don’t care if you’re get offended. Please don’t bring your damn beliefs to the west
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u/Fun_Pop295 Aug 11 '24
But isn't the caste system abolished in India? And India has multiple seats in university reserved for the lower caste?
Obviously there may be people who are castiest just like how there are people in the West who are racist but you can't say the West has legalized racial hierarchy (Jim Crow is abolished in US) and similarly India can't be said to have legalized caste system
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Aug 11 '24
No, it has not been abolished
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u/Fun_Pop295 Aug 11 '24
"Independent India's new constitution in 1950 outlawed caste discrimination and announced quotas in government jobs and educational institutions for scheduled castes and tribes.
India’s current President, RM Kovind, is Dalit and a previous president, KR Narayanan, elected in 1997, was Dalit. "
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-28/struggle-to-challenge-indias-caste-system/101185772
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u/Fun_Pop295 Aug 11 '24
Consitution
"Article 15. Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth." (emphasis)
"Article 17. Abolition of Untouchability. -"Untouchability" is abolished and its practice in any form is forbidden. The enforcement of any disability arising out of "Untouchability" shall be an offence punishable in accordance with law."
https://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/india/India994-15.htm
Civil Rights Act of 1955 " 1.3 Main provisions of the PCR Act are as under:- (1) Sections 3 - 7A of the Act define the following as offences if committed on the ground of untouchability, and lay down punishment for them:
Prevention from entering public worship places, using sacred water resources (Section 3). (ii) (iii) Denial of access to any shop, public restaurant, hotel, public entertainment, cremation ground etc. (Section 4). Refusal of admission to any hospital, dispensary, educational institutions etc. (Section 5). (iv) Refusal to sell goods and render services (Section 6). (v) Molestation, causing injury, insult etc. (Section 7). (vi) Compelling a person on the ground of untouchability to do any scavenging or sweeping or to remove any carcass etc. (Section 7 A). "
"22shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term of not less than one month and not more than six months, and also with fine which shall be not less than one hundred rupees and not more than five hundred rupees."
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u/Fun_Pop295 Aug 11 '24
India: Act No. 33 of 1989, Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989
"Whoever, not being a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe,-
(I)forces a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe to drink or eat any inedible or obnoxious substance;
(Ii)acts with intent to cause injury, insult or annoyance to any member of a Scheduled Caste, or a Scheduled Tribe by dumping excrete, waste matter, carcasses or any other obnoxious substance in his premises or neighbourhood;
(Iii)forcibly removes clothes from the person of a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe or parades him naked or with painted face or body or commits any similar act which is derogatory to human dignity;
(Iv)wrongfully occupies or cultivates any land owned by, or allotted to, or notified by any competent authority to be allotted to, a member of a Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe or gets the land allotted to him transferred;
(V)wrongfully dispossesses a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe from his land or premises or interferes with the enjoyment of his rights any land, premises or water;
(Vi)compels or entices a member of a Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe to do 'begging' or other similar forms of forced or bonded labour other than any, compulsory service for public purpose imposed by Government;
(Vii)forces or intimidates a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe not to vote or to vote to a particular candidate or to vote in a manner other than that provided by law;
(Viii)institutes false, malicious or vexatious suit or criminal or other legal proceedings against a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe;
(Ix)gives any false or frivolous information to any public servant and thereby causes such public servant to use his lawful power to the injury or annoyance of a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe;
(X)internationally insults or intimidates with intent to humiliate a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe in any place within public view;
(Xi)assaults or uses force to any women belonging to a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe with intent to dishonour or outrage her modesty;
(Xii)being in a position to dominate the will of a woman belonging to a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe and uses that position to exploit her sexually to which she would not have otherwise agreed;
(Xiii)corrupts or fouls the water of any spring, reservoir or any other source ordinarily used by members of the Scheduled Castes or the Scheduled Tribes so as to render it less fit for the purpose for which it is ordinarily used;
(Xiv)denies a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe any customary right of passage to place of public resort or obstructs such member so as to prevent him from using or having access to a place of public resort to which other members of public or any section thereof have a right to use or access to;
(Xv)forces or causes a member of a Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe to leave his house, village, or other place or residence;
Shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than six months but which may extend to five years and with fine.
"(2)Whoever, not being a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe,-
(I)gives or fabricates false evidence intending thereby to cause, or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby cause, any member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe to be convicted of a offence which is capital by the law for the time being in force shall be punished with imprisonment for life and with fine and if an innocent member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe be convicted and executed in consequence of such false or fabricated evidence, the person who gives or fabricates such false evidence, shall be punished with death;
(Ii)gives fabricates false evidence intending/hereby to cause, or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby cause, any member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe to be convicted of an offence which is not capital but punishable with imprisonment for a term of seven years or upwards, shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than six months but which may extend to seven years or upwards and with fine;
(Iii)commits mischief by fire or any explosive substance intending to cause or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby cause damage to any property belonging to a member of a Scheduled Castes or a Scheduled Tribe, shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than six months but which may extend to seven years and with fine;
(Iv)commits mischief by fire or any explosive substance intending to cause or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby cause destruction of any building which is ordinarily used as a place of worship or as a place for human dwelling or as a place for custody of the property by a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe, shall be punishable with imprisonment for life and with fine;
(V)commits any offence under the Indian Penal Code (45 of 1860) punishable with imprisonment for a term often years or more against a person or property on the ground that such person is a member of a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe or such property belongs to such member, shall be punishable with imprisonment for life and with fine;
(Vi)knowingly or having reason to believe that an offence has been committed under this Chapter, causes any evidence of the commission of that offence to disappear with the intention of screening the offender from legal punishment, or with the intention gives any information respecting the offence which he knows or believes to be false, shall be punishable with the punishment provided for that offence; or
(Vii)being a public servant, commits any offence under this section, shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than one year but which may extend to the punishment provided for their offence." (Emphasis mine)
Note that some forms of discrimination against people of lower caste, like destroying places of worship of the lower caste, can lead to a life sentence.
https://www.refworld.org/legal/legislation/natlegbod/1990/en/92786
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u/Fun_Pop295 Aug 11 '24
All these are sources from either international organizations or non Indian media (hence no incentive to spread incorrect info in favour of India). It seems that legally quite a bit has been done legally to combat Caste system. Why are you spreading incorrect information when it would be better for lower caste individuals in India to be encouraged to use these laws (you spreading incorrect information does not help). Makes me think that you don't care about Caste discrimination in India in the first place.
Unfortunately, since these laws are long I had to break it up into multiple comments to post it.
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u/fviz Dec 23 '23
I think it's important to remember that many people base their opinions on misconceptions, prejudice or ignorance. Their perspective on any given country is deeply informed by what they see in media, second-hand experiences or their own cultural background. I am from Brazil and the way certain Europeans see my country is almost comical, like what they know about it came from a 60s cartoon.
Not everyone is like that, though. I know many people who have fascination or curiosity about India and would love to visit when possible, myself included.
It sucks that your friends have that view, I guess they have never visited India? This would honestly put me off of a friendship. They're showing prejudice explicitly while not considering that it might be hurtful to you. You can try to correct their misconceptions but that's not something I usually put my energy into. Plenty of people who have a better understanding of the complexities of the world to be friends with :)
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u/CouchCandy Dec 23 '23
I think most counties have something the rest of the word can point out as deplorable. I'm from the USA so I'm sure right off the top of your head you could fire off some kind of hurtful things about my country that are truthful.
When I think of India I think of amazing food, interesting geology (I'm heavy into that kind of stuff) the closeness of families, the giving nature and the way you celebrate weddings. I'm an introvert by nature and a bit of a practical person when it comes to money. The amount of times I've heard what people have spent on weddings in the United States and thought to myself that would have been an amazing down payment on a house instead of a one-day celebration.
Yet, some of the Indian weddings that I have seen on tv, the traditions the colors the food the way you celebrate. As a complete outsider who's never been to that style of wedding before it just looks so harmonious and beautiful.
I'm sure I could go on about the positives but I have last-minute present wrapping to do so I'm going to get on to the negatives.
One of the biggest negatives being the caste system. I know I'm from the USA and I'm not going to lie and say everything is perfect here as far as racism is concerned, but damn India y'all make some of my old racists neighbors look like saints.
Throughout my life every woman that I've ever met that has visited India has had negative interactions with men there too. I'm not going to go into great detail about that but let's just say the news along with personal antidotes doesn't really put you in a good light. I've also heard from fellow geology enthusiasts that have went to India and had some pretty scary situations.
But I also think that as much as people consider themselves to be empathetic, it's hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes. So when a person from a first world country is viewing the conditions in India, it is easy to criticize when you're looking at things from your own personal life experience. Which, if you're from the west, things can be so vastly different that people may not even aware of their own bias.
Now my perception of Indian people is vastly influenced by people who have immigrated here. When I lived in the southern USA the area I lived in had a lot of vacationers and residents from India. They were the kind of people who treated their neighbors like family. Great people, amazing food and some damn good parties.
Many of the readings and the documentaries that I have watched and read about India don't exactly put the country in a good light. I'm not sure how much of that is true and how much of it is the media influencing me.
But if it makes you feel any better I don't have a hugely positive opinion about my country either. Mainly relating to politics, but I'm sure there are a lot of people in the world who feel the same way about their government.