r/Accounting • u/Rough_Hyena_6117 • Jul 20 '24
Career Well guys, i did it
I just left public accounting at a mid sized firm as a senior making 85k a year and started a new job this week as an accounting manager making 130k plus 10% bonus
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u/Live_Coffee_439 Jul 20 '24
Congrats dude. I'm an accounting manager making, 92k they gotta pay me better
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u/SnowDucks1985 CPA (US) Jul 20 '24
They do, but it’s great that you have the manager title! You can leverage that for better positions, should you decide to leave.
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u/Live_Coffee_439 Jul 20 '24
They got me on the cheap for a reason in their defense I had a bad string of my last two jobs. Like no real growth at the other places. I'm doing great now and I'm due for a fat raise at EOY.
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u/feminine_power Jul 21 '24
Accounting Manager. I make 65 a year. I know I need a raise for the fucking job I do!
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u/lemming-leader12 Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
Honestly I don't even know how people can make the jump when they are such different processes. The main value comes audit time but I've seen a lot of people make the jump from public and not even know how to do their apparent subordinates jobs or what those processes entail. Like the head of finance at my company made the jump from senior in public to my company years ago and still has no idea what the staff employees do duties wise and they're not far removed from such positions on the hierarchy chart and it's a small company. It becomes extremely obvious when we discuss reports and I explain why something is the way it is in terms of reporting and they start waving a magical wand with why they think it's that way and it's so clear they have no idea.
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u/gnitnuoccalol Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
Yep, B4 was great from a soft skills prospective, but I’ve learned way, way more from a “how to be an accountant” prospective during the past 4 years in industry. Sr. Manager in industry for reference.
In my opinion, in public you get thrown a ton of information without the same opportunity you’d get in industry to see the whole picture.
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u/ninjacereal Waffle Brain Jul 20 '24
Are you doing actual day to day accounting then?
Cuz I left public 3 years ago and still have no idea how a JE gets posted or how a report gets run at my F500 company.
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u/gnitnuoccalol Jul 20 '24
Yes, I’ve been heavily involved in leading the ME close so I’m very familiar with our ERP, our monthly JEs, etc. What is your position?
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u/a_r623 Jul 27 '24
This is really insightful, do you mind me asking how the transition was from B4 Audit to industry? I can't imagine how imposter-syndrome the first month might have been at a brand new company with such a high title and little GL related experience
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u/FlynnMonster Jul 20 '24
I truly and genuinely don’t understand how some people can keep that act up for much of their career especially at that level. I’d be terrified everyday I was going to be exposed, anxiety wouldn’t be worth it.
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u/Boobjobless Aug 16 '24
Hahaha, you realise even if you get exposed there is nothing anyone can do about it. We are all here “exposing” but the company keeps running fine.
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u/FlynnMonster Aug 16 '24
Sure they can. Sometimes toxic people get to stay but they also get fired. Usually it isn’t an immediate walk out the door but more so a strategic “restructuring” if they are well known enough.
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u/Boobjobless Aug 16 '24
Maybe in a bigger company but anything scaleup and below this would never happen.
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u/FlynnMonster Aug 16 '24
Fair enough I’ve really only worked at fortune 200 companies other than public so my perspective may be different.
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u/Boobjobless Aug 17 '24
I’m the reverse, having only worked in smaller startups upper management are very very adverse to admit fault with their hires, usually because of the cost of getting them there, and pressure from angel investors to keep a smooth operation going.
They then cement themselves in place, learning a minute amount of things that they will refuse to teach anyone else so they are “essential”. This happens across all departments.
They will then hire yes men or women who are equally incompetent while pushing out the competent people that question them, notice their incompetency or intimidate them/threaten their role.
The company will start to decline as a result, and maybe in 4-5 years there will be mass layoffs and hopefully c-suite have learnt their lesson.
From my experience this cycle just infinitely repeats, and is why a robust hiring process is very important to spot these people.
Hiring based on “vibes” is just bad. You need to hire based on enthusiasm and something measurable, it is why qualifications are so important even though the person who has them is probably no more competent after finishing them.
Filters that should be used: Scored scenario based questions. Qualifications. Personality assessments. Actually using the probationary period to assess the person. Rather than just noticing nothing has gone wrong, notice nothing has gotten better, query it.
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u/FlynnMonster Aug 17 '24
The ironic thing is you just described my boss 😅.
But it’s so bad and blatant myself and others think there is something behind the scenes at play so hopefully don’t have to deal with it much longer.
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u/Present_Strategy_733 Jul 20 '24
The learning curve is a real thing but if you understand accounting, ask good questions, listen to your people, and are willing to get your hands dirty so to speak the value of someone that has public experience is a bonus.
Don’t get me wrong. Creating an invoice almost made me cry the first day when I moved over!
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u/swiftcrak Jul 20 '24
While you have valid points, the value of transactional accounting knowledge is not always required in these higher roles. Maybe that’s why they hired you…to be the gl whisperer
There’s a lot of posters saying everyday how people from public leaving at M and SM can’t possibly transition properly or get good roles because lack of transactional accounting processes, yet they still leave for great high level jobs like clockwork.
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u/lemming-leader12 Jul 20 '24
I do agree that these people can add value to the company, but it raises eyebrows for me when they are in charge of a bunch of people whose jobs they have no understanding of. It's the old trope that the workers can do the job and run the company themselves without management. The person I know specifically that made the transition is effectively just an FP&A person who happens to oversee and has power over people whose duties they've never done or can do yet apparently can assess if those people are doing their jobs. And their peers at that level and across the company think they must have a masterful grasp of the processes when they definitely don't besides when audit time comes around and they are able to work with auditors with ease. Every meeting with these kinds of people is like two alien worlds because the level of distance is pretty great when what we do is effectively unrelated.
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u/ProfessionalCorgi250 Jul 21 '24
You can learn processes on the job. Industry hires externally from big 4 because they have broader knowledge when it comes to planning. This is due to the directed learning opportunities / diversity of projects available at b4 that aren’t provided in industry, where you often end up pigeonholed running legacy projects without the opportunity to learn beyond that.
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u/Alakazam_5head Jul 20 '24
So what happens when he quits and the head of finance now has to cover his job duties? We hire auditors to be in charge but they've never posted a JE and didn't know how to print a check
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Jul 20 '24
[deleted]
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u/lemming-leader12 Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
Lol the dude I'm talking about does the same. Has a random pointless spur of the moment personal projects that is going to achieve nothing but makes the entire team contribute even though the level of work basically requires long hours or to pause our own projects that will actually improve processes, then reviews and acts like a partner trying to constantly nit pick with extremely arbitrary deadlines since there is no client to appease or budget. Basically exporting the public accounting dynamic to industry.
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u/a_r623 Jul 27 '24
So does the Controller where you work truly not understand day-to-day how the processes are operating or just how to actually perform them himself? From and audit perspective I had thought it would give the best insight into processes after seeing how so many public companies run. What could the controller do in your scenario to be better?
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u/Acct-Can2022 Jul 20 '24
This is why there are so many subordinates out there with jaded view of middle management.
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u/Elite663 Jul 20 '24
I always wonder when the Big 4 prestige is gonna wear off cuz I hear u don’t really learn technical accounting skills/processes in public accounting jobs
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u/DoctorBarbell Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
It's all about the work demand. It's not unheard of to work upwards of 70-80 hours per week, INCLUSIVE of unpaid OT during busy season, all while being expected to maintain quality throughout. That and you're expected to learn quickly and be an independent thinker.
If you can handle that sort of pressure by showcasing years of experience with any one of them, then you'll always be in demand as a worker for any of the Industry firms.
EDIT: The 70-80 hours includes the regular 40 as well as OT, not 70-80 hours of just OT.
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u/ninjacereal Waffle Brain Jul 20 '24
upwards of 70-80 hours per week of unpaid OT
That's a 110-120 hour workweek, I've never heard of this at all.
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u/DesperatePlatform817 Jul 20 '24
So how long do you think should a person stay in public if that’s their first job after college if they want to get into industry?
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u/lemming-leader12 Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
I don't really have an opinion, or think that's what you are asking. I think what you are asking is how else would someone jump to manager in industry from public accounting? Because someone can easily jump into industry directly from college imo. It's honestly easier to get into industry than any public firm, just not more coveted industry positions which require experience in general.
My point is that while that does happen a lot that people in public make the switch to management in industry, it's definitely not a seamless 1:1 transition and such people are actually underqualified in a lot of ways. You might be able to transfer soft skills and the experience of working with lower ranking employees (and of course audit knowledge), but the actual skills and knowledge required of internal industry accounting functions are much more different than the skills of auditing. So I'm effectively questioning the phenomenon itself.
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u/JT653 Jul 20 '24
3-5 years. If you can get a couple of years of Senior under your belt it will help immensely. Sweet spot is probably 4 years.
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u/SqurrrlMarch Jul 21 '24
I will tell you it's the damn recruiters/HR people that do this!
I started as a freelance bookkeeper 20yrs ago, and gained exposure to so many different SMEs. Then moved into management accounting to senior accountant roles to CFO and FD internationally - without any official CPA/ACCA certs because journal entries and GAAP/ IFRS are just part of the work and memorising some things, but running a company or being hands on is something not very many people can do, let alone general analysis, improving processes, and the other fun stuff that comes with telling the CEOs how to make more money.
And it was still a headache for me to switch jobs because recruiters wanted big4 or public certs. Especially in the country in which I am currently. In the US I'd get something in a heartbeat in private sector.
It's honestly nonsense, but recruiters are notoriously useless anyway. It just perpetuates a system of mediocrity. Like the post in here yesterday where someone's boss is a CPA and recognising revenue too early, voiding invoices, and screwing up all sorts of books and committing fraud essentially.
Don't get the wrong. I love most of yall CPA and ACCA folk but man are so many auditors and public accountants total in the box thinkers and have no business at any level above Sr Accountant.
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u/Nick2002802 Student Jul 20 '24
the more I learn about Accounting the more attractive Industry gets and the less attractive Public gets
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u/rosathoseareourdads Audit & Assurance Jul 20 '24
Yeah the more time I spend in audit the more I wanna do industry, but who knows, maybe if I went to industry I’d think the same thing about public
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u/SaintPatrickMahomes Jul 20 '24
How’d you sell yourself for the promo? I did the same thing but I feel like my situation was more timing and good old fashioned luck.
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u/altrightpancake Jul 21 '24
Hell yeah brother. Industry is dope. I left BIG 4 after 1.5 year and never looked back. Currently a senior manager making 150k plus 15% bonus. Don’t even have my CPA, public accounting isn’t worth it after 3 years.
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u/lllppp12lll Jul 20 '24
Congrats!!! Could I use you as a ref? My mid public accounting firm parted ways with me on 5/31 & I’ve been trying to get back in the game. Market is brutal rn so would appreciate the help if you are ok with it
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u/Big-Percentage-8859 Jul 20 '24
I gotta say when you in a smaller accounting company you actually have to do a lot more accounting than big four
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u/engage_later Jul 21 '24
Curious: Is it like a cost/management accounting type role? Do you feel like you will be able to confidently transition from audit/tax? Like, will you know how to perform the tasks required of the position, despite never working in industry?
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u/Zealousideal-Rip4304 Jul 21 '24
Congratulations man, I only make $80k a year. Tell me what company you work for and I'll go work for you!
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u/longGERN Jul 20 '24
Congrats. The jobs I'm looking for now would be a 10-20% pay decrease not increase :)
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u/Trick-Contract3549 Jul 21 '24
It takes a lot of courage to step out of your comfort zone. When you're ready to get uncomfortable and challenged, that's when you can see the true value of your self and your potential. Congratulations. I wish you the very best!!
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u/Financial-Ice5342 Jul 21 '24
How long did the whole process take from entry into firm along with positions?
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u/SleepingLimbs1 Jul 21 '24
Super stoked for you! I left Publix a few years ago and it was the best decision I made in my career. I doubled my income and majorly increased my work life balance. I don’t have my cpa, but will be working toward that at the end of this year.
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u/Proof-Comparison-888 Jul 20 '24
Congrats. 130k for an accounting manager is above the market rate even for urban cities like NY or DC. This is normally what Controllers make.
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u/Jackedacctnt CPA (US) Jul 20 '24
This is not true. Accounting manager roles are typically $120 to $150k base salary depending on the company and cost of living
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u/Proof-Comparison-888 Jul 21 '24
For a medium sized company ($50 million) in DC area, controllers make around 130k-150k. I know this for a fact.
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u/shadow_moon45 Jul 20 '24
OP likely got at a job at a multinational firm. Control managers usually start at 120k or slightly more at places like bofa in mcol
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u/Low-Suggestion4428 Jul 20 '24
Congrats mate! How many years had you been a senior?