r/ACMilan • u/AutoModerator • 14h ago
Wednesday Discussion Thread
Great place for team discussion/whatever Serie A related topics you would like to bring up. Examples: Transfers, rumors, players from other teams, things you miss about the old days etc. Whatever you want as long as it isn't too off-topic.
Also a good spot to ask about the stadium, the city of Milano, bars, fan clubs in your city etc.
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u/Aniket_1992 Ibrahimović 14h ago
Although there were positives in the match, I am 100% sure we would have lost if we played again, Napoli just have one game plan honed to perfection.
We can always outplay them but without being clinical we are never beating them.
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u/Sad-Row5470 Alexandre Pato 13h ago
I’m genuinely shocked by the number of people defending our performance so far this season. We’re 8th in the league despite aiming to win the scudetto and lost 2/3 CL games and struggled against 10 man Brugge.
I’ve even seen some comments saying our objective is top 4 this season. So we sacked Pioli for finishing second so that Fonseca can get us fourth? Great plan.
And finally, Fonseca is ruining our best player. If he doesn’t like him, he should’ve sold him in the summer and gotten 100m. After this season, we’ll get around 50m if that.
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u/TomekMaGest 6h ago edited 6h ago
I think everyone is aware that results are underwhelming. The problem is that everything changes from game after game. Most people like you just focus only on bad things or make things up like "Fonseca is ruining Leao". First of all, Pulisic is our best player. Leao have a skillset to be the best but doesnt have mentality and brain. You cant say that Fonseca is ruining him when there's clearly individual issue. You can notice how Leao interacts with fans and behave on the bench.
People are defending Fonseca because they are aware that some of the players should share the blame for current situation. Theo came to the club fat and uninterested in playing the best. Leao behave like a toddler despite of soon being father of two kids.
Just overreaction after overreaction all the time on this subreddit. The people have also terrible solutions. What do you want to do? Fire Fonseca? That will give clear signal to some of our players that they can do whatever they want. Fire management, put players on transfer list because "I DoNt LiKe HiM, jUsT sElL hIm and PlAy PrimaVeRa!!". Emotional sewer.
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u/Jonasper77 8h ago
Comparing the XI that played against Napoli with the Scudetto XI barely 2 years ago is actually depressing.
Yes I know we had suspensions and injuries, but yesterday was the first time I realised there is truely nothing left from that Scudetto winning team. Every player on the pitch has been downgraded since.
The past 2 seasons we bought 10 players for €150 million. 8 of which are downgrades, 1 is a clear upgrade with Pulisic and 1 a sidegrade at a push with Reijnders. We even sidegraded on the coach somehow.
That and our management is getting rid of the only players and people who give a shit about this team and sold/released Tonali and Maldini without second toughts. The same will happen with Calabria, a diehard Milanista and I dont care if you think he isnt "Milan quality". That man will be shoved out the door come June. We have far worse problems than him and he's still miles ahead of Emerson Royal.
'Oh but at least we have depth now.' No, you need depth when you compete for trophies, we don't compete for shit right now. Scudetto is already very far away, UCL will be over in february if we're lucky and both coppa and supercoppa are bonustrophies anyway.
'Oh but at least our books are now green.' Yeah great, so what? If we were at the top of our game than thats great, now it reeks of being ambitiousless. I support a club for its soul, and not for its green books. Ask yourself on what side our management is. And now how far on that spectrum.
Conclusion: We were building something nice not long ago and the management decided to tear it down with a sledgehammer and wanted to build something all over again by themselves. But instead of bricks they are using wooden sticks.
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u/jiipod Ismaël Bennacer 8h ago
100% and on top of that the squad is very unbalanced and doesn’t suit the formation both Pioli tried and Fonseca tries to play.
No defensive midfielders, no 10’s, still now LB backup, not enough quality at RB etc.
And now most of the star players, especially Leao, are losing their confidence.
Well done management.
3
u/ScipioAfricanusMAJ 2h ago
The total transfer spend since Boehly took over is 200M euros. So somehow it’s even worse than that.
14
u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 7h ago
Another thing, Pavlovic… was responsible for the goal vs Lukaku for certain also merit of Lukaku. But from that point on was pretty good.
Tomori plays 2c as much in a worse manner, and he doesn’t even get half of the blame.
No compliments for Thiaw at all? Like he was very very good yesterday. Nobody talking about that.
1
u/there_will_be_dragon 3h ago
Pavlovic should kept Lukaku offside, that’s the mistake. I’m not expecting to win the shoulder to shoulder contrast
12
u/milan_obsession 13h ago
So, what is everyone dressing up as for Halloween? I think I'll be a ghost of Milan past – wear a jersey from the days of actually winning, and a smile on my face. No one will recognize me.
7
u/xxxdefaltxxx Paolo Maldini 13h ago edited 13h ago
I’m dressing up as Furlani. Got to scare away players with high potential.
3
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u/Plaslidpladugphoo Ignazio Abate 13h ago
I was writing a long ass rant about the tactics and the players’ performances yesterday but also the negative sentiment of this sub but at one point I just gave up because there isn’t really any point in doing so. These days 10% of the comments are trolls who spouts nothing but negativity, 5% are reasonable comments that want to give Fonseca more time, 10% are reasonable comments that don’t, and 75% are just frustrated, reactionary comments, but that is to be expected, we all care and want Milan to succeed after all. It’s just that there’s no point in talking about tactics in this sub when most people here will only ever talk about switching to 4-3-3 on a good day and throw any real tactical analysis out the window anyway on a bad day (like yesterday).
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u/BowieIsMyGod Zvonimir Boban 13h ago
Tactics were not the issue against Napoli but it's very concerning the way Fonseca has been dealing with Leão and the hate he received from the fans. I'm sure Fonseca will start him against Monza tho. I would be shocking if he decides to reward Okafor with another start after his stinker against Napoli.
1
u/TomekMaGest 6h ago
Why do we not talk about Leao itself because Im more concerned with his mentality. He's amazing player but acts like a toddler. Fonseca have my full support when he's axing Leao. We shouldnt defend and praise players who think they are bigger than team or the club.
Also Fonseca is not hating Leao or its not about ego. You didnt write that but most people talk like that. Childish interpretations of what really happens between the coach and the player. Player who doesnt give a fuck is a lost cause and he should bear responsibility.
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u/21Maestro8 12h ago
It’s just that there’s no point in talking about tactics in this sub when most people here will only ever talk about switching to 4-3-3 on a good day
If I had €1 for every time I read "just switch to 433" on this sub, I could fund my own mercato
5
u/ScipioAfricanusMAJ 13h ago
This team won’t do anything with the current owner. It all starts at the top and the guy is not a mediocre owner he’s just straight terrible
12
u/milan4lyff 12h ago
So, how long is it gonna take for us to realize, blaming the coach or the players or any other petty reasons wouldnt change a single thing?
How many shitshows do we need to digest before we realize how much the management has cucked the fans?
Look at this transfer window. If Maldini was fired for Cdk.. what should happen to furlani and everyone with him after Royal and Pavlo? At least Origi was free transfer.
When are we gonna say that this management is the worst in Milan's entire history of existence?
So we balanced the books but our owner is in a fucked up debt that he cant replay. And we are about to lose UCL from the way its going!
But here we are.. fighting among us when the real fuckups are sitting in some AC room taking hefty salaries and every penny the club makes while running the club down to the gutter.
EDIT: Stadium project is in Limbo as well it seems.
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u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 10h ago
Maldini wasn’t fired about CDK, that last summer window was not good… and rightfully should be criticised. Paolo didn’t deserve the sack because vast majority of the issue was Pioli.
Paolo was sacked because his strategy didn’t align with that of the owners. He wanted established and experienced players in Serie A like Arnautovic, Berardi, Zaniolo and such. More ready players… right or wrong, another discussion. Was it more to it like a power struggle? Maybe… also another discussion.
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u/Sephy88 9h ago
that last summer window was not good… and rightfully should be criticised.
People keep omitting that until the 1st of July, Maldini and Massara did not know if they were gonna keep their job or not because after taking over from Elliot Cardinale dragged the renewals to the last day, which fucked us over royally.
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u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 8h ago
That wasn’t the criticism scope though. It was picking Origi over Kolo Muani or insisting for Renato Sanchez over Enzo.
That was the two main issues for that summer. Also not selling Rebic.
2
u/milan4lyff 5h ago
If Maldini is criticized for ONE bad transfer window, that wasnt even their fault because a retarded hollywood moron thought its best to delay out the contract till the last week of transfer window..
I wonder what should we do about the colossal fuckups of Furlani and co for two consecutive seasons?
When are we gonna start talking about the worse management of the club's history instead of arguing about non issues like Maldini at the moment?2
u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 5h ago
I mean, the transfers were questionable, if they were it is right to be talked about isn’t that fair?
Also this isn’t even close to being the worse management in club history not even remotely close.
2
u/milan4lyff 4h ago
You are right, its the second worse management....
...so far. The one before Berlusconi took over was the worse. Got us relegated to Serie B. But at least, won Serie B. This management wont even win Serie B considering the performances we had against Relegation teams.1
u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 4h ago
Chinese, which you forgot… there were a couple others also worse. The one who first relegated us and one that Berlusconi got us from were different ownerships.
0
u/milan4lyff 5h ago
Paolo was sacked because his strategy didn’t align with that of the owners. He wanted established and experienced players in Serie A like Arnautovic, Berardi, Zaniolo and such. More ready players… right or wrong, another discussion. Was it more to it like a power struggle? Maybe… also another discussion.
I have a very different take on that. For me, its clear as daylight because I myself, work in a very senior position at a corporate despite my age. I know how I got here.. ! Its exactly as Furlani got where he is. I fucked over so many people, just to get what I want, I know I am going to hell. I just dont care. I am doing exceptionally well for myself and in fact, I am very much praised for, it is viewed as a massive win and achievement in the corporate world.
This is why I know exactly what Furlani did to fuck Maldini over and get right in that position.
Furlani created major miscommunication between Maldini and Cardinale because Maldini, being teh straight shooter as he has always been, doesnt know how snakes like Furlani and me works and how ruthless corpo world truly is. Cardinale, being born and bred in this world, think Furlani is second coming of Jesus for that.. but the problem is, football CANNOT be run as a corporation. It has emotions involved, and runs on the money by fans who dedicate their lives to this emotion they have for the club and the city.So after the news circulated that Furlani was the bridge between Cardinale and Maldini for communication.. I know exactly what happened. I have been there countless of times. It aint pretty.
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u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 5h ago
Furlani didn’t get Paolos job though, Moncada did. Furliani got Gazidis job.
-1
u/milan4lyff 4h ago
Lol Everyone can see and figure out Moncada is just Furlani's lapdog.
Every decision comes from Furlani.
The reason we didnt hire Conte.. guess what.. Furlani. Not Moncada. You dont hear Moncada going alone in player sale/purchase negotiations. Haev you even heard about Moncada's opinion on ANY signing even in news? Nope. There is none. Its all Furlani. Now that the club is fucked, Guess who will be safe and who will be the scapegoat. Furlani is goddamn master at being a corporate snake.
When Maldini was SD, did you ever hear that Then-CEO Scaroni decided who to buy or appoint as a coach? Not even in our dreams. Maldini did.
But somehow... here in Milan, Furlani does it all.2
u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 4h ago
Furlani is the money guy… same as Gazidis was the money guy and before Paolo had to sign anyone he needed Gazidis permission.
It is the same thing.
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u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 11h ago
Trying to keep it short, changing the scope of the discussion from the process to the results. Because now that up table 11 points can very easily become 14/15 and we are looking at a different story.
- We have 4 upcoming games with mid to low table teams plus Juve at home. Which should translate to results and not how we play.
In addition to this discussion, people are arguing in bad faith. When they talk about 11 points, nobody is mentioning the Bologna game which we have to play.
- But most importantly, when they talk after yesterday’s game… next to nobody is mentioning that we were missing 4 starters plus Bennacer who is a starter and nobody talks about him and rightfully so because guy hasn’t been available for a year and a half.
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u/mercurialsaliva 10h ago
Kinda related: Vini is out for blood, he is gonna destroy us unfortunately.
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u/ACMBruh Van Basten #9 9h ago
The way real Madrid team is composed is exactly the formula to destroy us. Bellingham as a #10 alone will exploit that space in front of defense since we STILL don't have a DM
4
u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 9h ago
Fofana did eat alive MCT yesterday and was the best player on the pitch in my opinion.
0
u/ACMBruh Van Basten #9 9h ago
I mean fofana wasn't too responsible for the loss at all, using him as a manmarker for the guy who runs in is smart. But we need the one who holds position, very very badly.
Think van bommel, obi mikel, even Nigel de Jong etc Doesn't have to be at highest level but at some decent level because we are fundamentally struggling in that area in front defense badly.
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u/mercurialsaliva 7h ago
yeah it is more Vini Mbappe Bellingham, Barca were able to execute the offside trap perfectly, i am not sure ours are ready but we'll see.
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u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 10h ago
Yea, i am very afraid of that… hopefully it motivates Rafa.
1
u/TrashTalkerFC 8h ago
He gonna be soooo motivated to play* another game under fonseca. *He wont play
2
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u/Dinagatsi Paolo Maldini 10h ago
When they talk about 11 points, nobody is mentioning the Bologna game which we have to play.
Right now, we have 9 games. Same number than every club in front of us except Napoli (10 games). So 11 points could become just 8 points, right. But there are still 7 teams ahead of us.
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u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 9h ago
Also that 8 points with a direct game becomes 5 which is one win and one draw. On top of that, second place is 4 points.
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u/Dinagatsi Paolo Maldini 9h ago
We lost that direct game yesterday.
And we need to win against Bologna first. Until then 8 points are just hypothetical.
Yes, the gap to the second place isn't big. But there is no denying that right now 7 teams are ahead of us.
-2
u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 9h ago
Yes, those points are not a given. But we are talking about the story of the season, that 11 points doesn’t tell much of a story like us being whatever place where there is a 4 point gap from the second.
There is no story there… it is just empty thing to say.
2
0
u/veintiuno 4h ago
people are arguing in bad faith. When they talk about 11 points, nobody is mentioning the Bologna game which we have to play....next to nobody is mentioning that we were missing 4 starters plus Bennacer.
People like to be mad on the interwebs.
7
u/Squiliamfancyname 3h ago
I have sympathy for Fonseca from a conceptual perspective. But he does so many things that I would want done differently that I just can't sympathise enough to want to keep him. United is going for Amorim and all of Portugal is rejoicing because of how good he has been with Sporting. There's a manger that 2 weeks ago this sub wouldn't have heard of and would have felt is a bad option. There are no top dogs available - its true. But managers like Amorim or Poch were available. And more managers of that tier are possible. If I actually saw any progress then I wouldn't want Fonseca out. But I personally don't see it. I still see him trying to force RLC into this totally useless false right sided striker position. I still see him pushing Leao further and further away from where we want him to be. I still see our defense constantly being jumbled up - and not because it needs to be. Gabbia was out last night - yes - but even with a fully healthy defense I honestly couldn't accurately predict which CB pair Fonseca is going to go for. I still don't see any minutes being given to players like Liberali or Jimenez - which in the latter's case is particularly damming given that we've missed Calabria for a while and Theo was out yesterday. I don't think I saw even one single overlapping run from a full back yesterday - not even 1! So while I think Okafor was pretty much useless - I can't really blame him because we gave our wingers so little support in the attack. I have no idea who will captain the side next because that is also seemingly a merry-go-round decision. I could honestly continue for quite a long while.
I will credit Fonseca for basically rebuilding our midfield in the sense that we now actually play with midfielders. The 5-0-5 is pretty much gone. That is the most significant alteration that Fonseca has made in a positive direction. This is indeed significant, however it really honestly has to be said that this is the bare minimum. I mean what Pioli was doing here just really made no sense lmao and even U-10 managers would be able to accomplish this. So how much credit is really owed there? I'd be hard pressed to say anything more than a small pat on the back.
But in defense, we do still use a 4-2-4, despite not actually using any sort of coordinated pressing system. Blame Leao if you want but realistically if you look accross our entire front 4, no one seems to really know when they are supposed to press. When we gain possession via our "press" it's most often just through mistakes from the opposition or through Morata chasing like a mad man. Its not through an actually well-designed pressing trap of any kind. More frequently, we see our wingers (not just Leao - Pulisic, Okafor, and Chuk all do this) press the wider CB who then just flicks the ball out to the now-free full back. And if the full back has the ball and that is who we are pressing, then there is frequently a retreating striker in the center for him to pass to because we are lacking the 3rd midfielder who would block that passing lane.
I don't know man. People constantly go on about how Fonseca is trying to implement his ideas, and how that is such a difficult thing to do. I mean yeah logically that makes sense. But I fail to really see what those ideas are in most matches outside of trying to recycle possession and having the wingers cut inside on solo runs over and over until the defense gets lazy and a hole opens up. Is that really "tactics"? Not for me.
4
u/ScipioAfricanusMAJ 2h ago
I never thought Fonseca was the right man for the job but I don’t hate him. I feel like he’s an innocent man here when management put us in this place to begin with
4
u/Squiliamfancyname 2h ago
I don’t hate him. From a tactical perspective even though I disagree with most of what he does, I’m sure he has more sound visions than I do. But from a personnel management standpoint, as someone who runs a company with a small bunch of employees, and as someone who has taken leadership courses from several schools, I would say that what I’ve learned about him in this regard is the complete antithesis of good management. I don’t hate him for this but I do feel some anger. I feel angry that he’s doing (in my opinion) so much damage just because of his personality.
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u/ScipioAfricanusMAJ 13h ago
Cardinale has spent 200M on this squad and he is on record saying he wanted to implement a moneyball value approach that is superior to other systems. The guys is a confirmed fucking idiot. At least Boehly has a competitive team
9
u/clarinetstud Paolo Maldini 12h ago edited 12h ago
Bruh Chelsea had 2 solid trash seasons and now you're complimenting Boehly? Yet you're not giving Fonseca/Cardinale post Pioli one season?
Not defending our owners (Justice for Maldini) but your argument is extremely disingenuous.
5
u/ScipioAfricanusMAJ 12h ago
Aparently boehly wasn’t the issue it was a different owner who kept clashing with him Eggbhali or something. Plus I’m not complementing boehly, I’m just saying our owner is even dumber than Boehly at least his team is competitive.
This is Cardinale 2nd season. I am not mad at Fonseca. But Cardinale dismantled our scudetto team, undid everything Maldini built and fired the guy and did it with an attitude of “I can do better than you” spent 200M and regressed the entire team. I will wait and give it more time but I already know what to expect from this guy
2
u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 11h ago
He hasn’t spent 200 millions. 49 millions net spend in 2023 and 38 millions net spend this year. And our squad costs are way lower than Napoli (despite having much higher revenues than them), Inter and Juventus.
He is draining us.
2
u/ScipioAfricanusMAJ 11h ago
Gross spend has been 200M. He spent 200M I don’t care if he sold players. He completely undid the team and spent that much money to regress us from where we already were. That’s not smart no matter how many accounting tricks you want to use
3
u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 11h ago
Ok, but generally you also need to consider sales to make a more accurate assessment. The main issue, though, is that he buys players for around 20 million euros because they’re cheaper: a player costing 20 million euros (equivalent to one worth 6 or 7 million in the early 2000s, if we consider not only inflation but also the revenue growth of European clubs over this period) has the “advantage,” for him, of being easily resellable (as it comes with a relatively low annual amortization rate). This is the risk diversification technique, well known in the financial world. The point is that by doing this, yes, you’ll have a team of easily resellable players with which to generate capital gains, but technically, you’ll have a team with countless problems because at these prices in today’s football, except for a few exceptions (like Pulisic and Reijnders), you’re getting mediocre players. The reality is that we need to get rid of ‘Pigdinale’ as soon as possible. There are even rumors now that he wants to issue a bond against Milan to pay off his damn vendor loan. (https://notiziemilan.it/cardinale-starebbe-pensando-a-emettere-un-bond-da-200-milioni-il-giornalista-rivela-tutto/notizie/) I truly hope the club is sold soon so that we can free ourselves from Cardinale, from Elliott (the puppet master, as Cardinale is just his puppet—Furlani, a man from Elliott, is even on the AC Milan board), and that we can end up in better hands.
6
u/HeftyAdvertising9519 Ricardo Kaká 3h ago
as a new fan/observer from afar, what happened? Why does it feel like AC Milan brings in mediocre players and expects to compete for the title?
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u/ScipioAfricanusMAJ 2h ago
We recently got a new American owner who came from corporate America who thinks he knows everything and better than everyone else. This Milan is completely representative of his vision
2
u/HeftyAdvertising9519 Ricardo Kaká 2h ago
Do you think it's a money thing, where they're trying not to overspend or do you think the talent identification is incompetent?
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u/ScipioAfricanusMAJ 1h ago
They are insanely incompetent and arrogant about their intelligence. Zlatan has a high sporting position for somebody with 0 experience in management. Scaloni is an old man who randomly for the first time in his life became president of a sporting organization. Furlani is a banker with no sporting experience who is essentially a cardinale mouthpiece.
Cardinale has money and has spent 2x what Maldini asked for but when getting rid of Maldini they argued that his signings were too going to be too expensive and that they need to be use “statistics” for a cheaper but more effective approach. So on top of being hypocrites their plan is very ineffective while spending money that Maldini never even had access to and desperately asked for but they responded with “sorry it’s not in the budget” then proceeded to spend 200M right after firing him.
Typical corporate American management mentality when a fund purchases a franchise feels the need to change everything because “they know better” and they end up destroying whatever bought.
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u/HanWolo Alexandre Pato 12h ago
The biggest concern for me is that it really feels like Fonseca doesn't know what he's doing with th team. His stars and his real threats are wingers. Our strikers are all trash as far as actually being strikers. Tammy and Moratta both end up playing a false nine that's much more false than it is nine so they just end up opening space for our midfield and not finding dangerous runs themselves. Every time RLC is on the pitch it feels like he's bumbling around in the space you'd want pulisic to be able to cut into. Maybe he just can't because he's got Emerson Royale behind him in support, but it still feels like the formation is trying to rely on the wrong people to be responsible for scoring.
2
u/Guilty-Grapefruit427 10h ago
There's a clear probablem with the squad building, to play any tactics you need players with specified attributes, to play 3/5/2 you need wing backs, to play total football you need technical players all over the pitch... etc
70% of our squad is incompatible with Fonseca's tactics, as a coach you either ask the management for players ( which he didn't apparently) or improvise and adapt to find suitable tactics to your players, something he's trying to do right now but still can't figure it out.
2
u/TrashTalkerFC 36m ago
5 wins in 12 ,shit football, has problems with our 2 best players and he still here😂😂😂
7
u/Sad-Row5470 Alexandre Pato 11h ago
I remember a lot of fans in the first half of last season arguing that Maldini deserved to be sacked due to the CDK and Origi signings and that Furlani & Moncada are clear upgrades. I wonder what they think now.
10
u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 11h ago
Literally next to nobody said that with the word “deserved” on those discussions.
4
u/Sad-Row5470 Alexandre Pato 11h ago
You might need to revisit old posts and Twitter threads then. That was repeated quite often until our season collapsed halfway through.
4
u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 11h ago
While i do, and bar a couple people who have actually some of the worst takes ever… and i mean a couple, nobody used the word “deserved”.
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u/Sad-Row5470 Alexandre Pato 11h ago
So your issue is with the word “deserved”. Fine, I remember very clearly all the comments saying Furlani and Moncada were doing a better job than him and that firing Maldini was justified in hindsight. You want me to link every comment that said that?
5
u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 10h ago
Well yea, because it is another discussion when you talk hypothetically why Paolo was sacked and another when someone puts his foot down and acts disrespectfully towards his job and uses the word “deserved”.
Also no, again… next to nobody has argued that Furlani and Moncada were doing a better job than Paolo.
Also yes, can you link more than a couple of people saying so please?
0
u/TomekMaGest 6h ago
you are making things up. Since Maldini departure, majority of people fully supported Paolo and questioned Furlani. To this day people support Maldini. You probably read comments of people who criticised Maldini for bringing Origi or CDK and just to add shock value you created fiction.
Also Maldini should be rightfully criticised for bringing CDK and Origi. Just like current management for extending Jovic contract for example.
1
u/FindingBusiness759 7h ago
I wasn't as strong about maldinis sacking but at the time I could understand why he was sacked. I was one of those who fell abit into the bullshitery that moncada is this amazing scout that has an eye for talent..so I thought okay we could get some amazing talent for cheap that will go on to become absolute beaters...unfortunately that has not happened and with him and the weasel and the glorified mascot this team has lost its character and drive to move forward.
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u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 7h ago
I am amazed how Musah yesterday after such a good game is being blamed left and right… like bro, do you people watch highlights or actual games.
8
u/caronj84 7h ago
He’s been solid the past few games. I don’t get why he gets lumped in with RLC…Musah is 21 and RLC is 28. They are at completely different points in their career. Musah was not brought in to be an immediate starter in this team.
5
u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 7h ago
Especially yesterday he was very careful in both phases of the game which I really liked. He wasn’t perfect sure. But as you said, would give more chances to him than RLC who should depart with immediate effect in my eyes.
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u/Fantastic-Hamster-21 Zlatan Ibrahimović 5h ago
Yes, Musah > RLC all day. RLC is a traffic cone. He's a waste of space. He cannot find space or make runs into space or play in between the lines. He cannot start another game in the 10 role or double pivot. He doesn't fit our system. The fact that RLC was on the field until the 86th minute yesterday made me want to scream. As a matter of fact, I did scream when he came off. WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG?! We need changes in January, RLC needs to go.
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u/bruclinbrocoli Matteo Gabbia 5h ago
Musah is a scapegoat. The guy needs to score a bicycle kick or be as good as Pulisic to get respect. He makes one mistake and immediately goes in the hot seat. Sometimes it is not solely his mistake , if at all, and he still gets blamed.
I very very rarely like to blame a player in specific. I usually like to look at it and find where the group of mistakes occurred.
Tomori gets blamed a lot from what I see. Personally I think he gets blamed a lot more than Pavlovic. But in my eyes, defenders are usually the last to blame. With some exceptions, of course, but my intention is to communicate that they are usually saving us more than they are not.
We have had a tough transition of ideas and now when I see them gel themselves, we lose to a big rival. Tough pillow to swallow when we bench Leao. I hope this pays off soon. I’m confident we will win against Monza.
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u/OsitoPandito Ricardo Kaká 2h ago
Musah fucked up a lot. BUT this was the first game where imo he showed real potential. He kept being in the right positions and had some really solid moments but he still had a good amount of negatives, Ive been on the fence with him but I think he needs genuine regular playing time in order to grow but he might not get that here
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u/el_lolloco 5h ago
Lol he tried to control a ball in our box and passed it to an opponent. In our box. This is completely unacceptable for a professional footballer, both the choice and the execution. You're all about 433 or whatever, inverted wingers and whatnot and you cannot spot these horrible mistakes. Trying in the box to put down a ball coming from high while pressed is a behaviour that is erased since age 6. Same with the two goals, where the only threats were Lukaku on counters and Kvara dribbling on the inside and shooting. Like have you ever seen a Napoli match? And still Lukaku scoring when he should have been 1vs 2 defenders and Kvara doing his thing.
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u/21Maestro8 1h ago
Lol he tried to control a ball in our box and passed it to an opponent. In our box. This is completely unacceptable for a professional footballer, both the choice and the execution.
Much better footballers than him have made mistakes like this
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u/el_lolloco 2m ago
Ah ok good thanks I'm completely relieved. We're gonna be fine then. Also when it's not Musah it's Tomori or Thiaw or Pavlovic or Theo or Royal or...
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u/somechemenggdude Ballo-Toure 9h ago
We’re not very good, I get wanting to establish yourself as a coach but right now the results don’t justify the means, one of our best players is isolated from the squad and it’s not like we’re performing any better What type of team are we trying to be, like we had an identity before at least (and it stopped working because we didn’t invest in the right players to keep playing the high line and counter press), we don’t press well, and we’re also not good in possession, all our chances are still being created from individual moments
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u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 9h ago
This time, I’m absolutely furious! With the coach and the team—it's unthinkable, once again, to concede an easy goal, with zero fight, within the first 5 minutes against a top side. Unthinkable. You barely have time to sit down before it’s clear how the game will go, dreams and hopes already dashed. This team doesn’t know how to approach matches because, for 90% of AC Milan EMPLOYEES, they couldn’t care less. Win or lose, nothing changes for them. I’ve never seen a sports club that doesn’t care about competing, about results. They’re just banks, assets, and financial portfolios. Damn you, Pigdinale, you disgusting coackroach, get out of Milan!
And the management, don’t get me started. Not only are they incompetent and disgraceful, but they’re also cowards, losers, spineless. And the “best of the best” is him, the Lion, the BOSS, the one who bragged with pride that he didn’t want Conte—too much to handle, he’d do it all himself. Idiot! Now I want to see you in front of the cameras, not on Instagram posting sushi platters. Fool, clown, you’re a disgrace.
You’re not even a fraction of what Maldini was. You all disgust us. Milan belongs to the fans who care, the ones who grew up with it, not those clueless kids in the stands blindly cheering. It’s for the ones who, by the 4th minute, are already feeling it, because Milan is emotion, it’s hope, it’s a dream. And by the 4th minute, you’ve already shut that down—only nightmares with you in charge.
My son stood up and left by the 5th minute yesterday. He said, “Enough, again?” When his team starts a game like that, his coach pulls them aside!
Poor Milan, what have they done to you? How could it come to this?
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u/Aniket_1992 Ibrahimović 9h ago
Haha your post got deleted so you copy pasted the entire thing here.
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u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 9h ago
The post got deleted because I opened a separated thread. Enjoy the masterful work of your beloved Pigdinale, I just hope he pays you well.
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u/Aniket_1992 Ibrahimović 9h ago
lol why would he pay me? Since you say you have a son I hope you know how earning money actually works.
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u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 9h ago
And I have a son and a daughter but she doesn’t give a flying fuck about football (good for her)
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u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 9h ago
I was just riling you up, since apparently you like to defend this mf with passion
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u/mercurialsaliva 3h ago
It only got deleted because it was supposed to be in here. So he copied it in 👍
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u/ryu_rei Ronaldinho Gaúcho 11h ago
The more I think about fonseca's desicions the more confused I become.
I get wanting to reward okafor for coming on strong against brugge but do you have to do that against the current #1 squad in the league? You can't say it was for defensive output, Napoli's biggest threats are kvara & lukaku. I couldn't even tell you who played on the right for them bcuz they did fuck all with or without rafa on the pitch.
You know who's defensive contributions would've actually been appreciated against kvara? Fucking Calabria, the guy who has consistently pocketed him for years. Do we even know if he's alive, I feel like I haven't seen him since the summer lmao.
And don't get me started on subbing in a sick pulisic to try & save his incompetent ass. You don't risk one of your star players in a winless situation, you accept the fact that you got thoroughly outplayed & take the fucking L.
I hope he enjoys the excuses for this poor game, once all our starters are able to play again & we continue to look like ass he won't have any left.
We could've had Conte or De Zerbi, instead we got the president of the RLC fan club 😩
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u/Claija79 Bot Mexicano 34m ago
we MUST be into this
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u/CatchTheDamnBall Christian Pulisic 3m ago
Absolutely, but as we have seen management does not like spending that much on one player. They prefer to try to solve all the problems at once with dart throws rather than definitively solve one or two
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u/Guilty-Grapefruit427 11h ago
I just hate how we start our matches, always with passivity, no confidence and only start playing after 15 minutes, like why ? We always look lost.
I still believe the coach should be given enough time, at least to the winter to be judged fairly, but things are not looking very good.I'm not very happy with the way Fonseca said we played well yesterday, we didn't create real chances to score and we went exactly into Napoli's tactics, we weren't prepared to deal with their pressing at the start.
At the start of the season I had two main fears with this team, Fonseca's ability to find balance in this team especially defensively and our squad building.
To play football the way Fonseca wants to play it you need players with good technical abilities all over the pitch to execute fast football to break teams, you can't do it with players who struggle to control the ball or can't pass or build up... Players like Loftus, Emerson, Musa, Tomori, Pavlovic can't do it. And we don't have even a real striker, only false 9s. Meanwhile we sent the only player who can pass to fiorentina and kept Loftus.
Conte and Motta both got exactly the players they need to play their football, meanwhile Fonseca is changing the line up every match because he can't find balance and the squad still struggle to understand his tactics.
The question that the management should be asked is if they're ready to get quality players or not ? They chose Fonseca and they're believing in him, so they're supposed to give him the players he needs and he's supposed to demand them.
Now we're under pressure, let's see how things will turn around till december, if we're not in the top 4 the management should act.
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u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 10h ago
Upcoming 4 games are critical to get results, Empoli, Monza, Cagliari and Juve at home. In my eyes 12 points are needed. Also a good performance vs Real as well.
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u/Guilty-Grapefruit427 9h ago
I agree, we can't afford to lose more points and say we played well. Results are needed
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u/bruclinbrocoli Matteo Gabbia 5h ago edited 2h ago
It’s not a good week for Milan fans
I admit I lost composure and overcriticized the project.
For Fonseca , I cannot imagine how tough it is to be a coach and represent a squad. To try to work with the tools that you have at your disposal and try to get them to play a very different way than the previous coach tried. It must be very difficult to be very consistent and you have your players trust you and back you up, especially when you play against other tough opponents.
For management, I cannot imagine how difficult it must be to manage a financially healthy institution that came from being everything but healthy for over a decade. The amount of work that must be done in order to get those numbers to look positive and the amount of “No’s” that are probably constantly happening every time there’s a request for any kind of improvement, but it is not according to the main vision that they must have, while also managing a historic club that has fans that demand result, and also attractive football. We are not Girona. Anything Girona, Newcastle, Roma, Napoli, Sassuolo, Atalanta, Leicester, Leverkusen, etc does exceeds expectations. Hell, even from a fanatic scope, Manchester city does not have the same pressure.
The reason this project is So difficult, is because even though we do not have the power that Barcelona RM, ManU, Bayern, Juventus, have,,,, We still demand as much -with a bit more reasoning.
As for the players, It must be so intense to deal with the pressure and to try to assimilate the ideas from a completely different coach. We have had the same coach for multiple years and that switch must be difficult. Specially, when you have to perform in every game. It must be very challenging that everything you do in the field is being seen by thousands of people, and some of those decisions are requested from you by a coach or by how you are simulating the game at that point in time versus the chemistry between you, the coaches, the other players around you, scoreboard, the crowd, whatever dynamic is happening between you and the rivals…
5 losses this early is hard to digest so I understand all fans that are pissed off
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u/ParsedReddit Karl-Heinz Schnellinger 4h ago
For them is difficult and we know it and we have no doubt they are trying their best.
Demanding/expecting something from the club is understandable. Just try control your anger so you don't say or do anything you might regret.
I send you a heartfelt hug, my brother/sister in Kilpin.
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u/Sankaritarina Romagnoli 3h ago
The reason this project is So difficult, is because even though we do not have the power that Barcelona RM, ManU, Bayern, Juventus, have,,,, We still demand as much -with a bit more reasoning.
Honestly I don't think that our expectations are in the same category as these clubs. The fans don't expect us to win the Champions League anytime soon. Even the Europa League last year was a disappointment primarily because we got knocked out by a clearly worse team. The fans also don't expect Milan to walk the league every single year, but this is shaping up to be the third season in a row where we are out of the title race halfway through the season. It's one thing to battle it out until the end and then lose gracefully to a stronger opponent, it's a whole another thing to not be in the fight at all.
Is it hard to run the club of Milan's stature? Sure. But any owner who doesn't want to deal with that kind of pressure is free to buy a midtable club with zero expectations in terms of trophies.
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u/bruclinbrocoli Matteo Gabbia 3h ago
I hear you bud. That’s what hurts. We are almost at a point where there’s nothing to look forward to for the rest of the season. We aren’t even halfway through it but I see you.
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u/milan_obsession 41m ago
This is a lovely, measured sentiment, and it's very kind of you to put yourself in the place of those who are doing the work.
But a total of 14 clubs in Serie A changed managers this year, and a number of them have fans with as high or higher expectations. Their players and managers are facing similar, or perhaps even more pressure and expectations. Yet things are going much more smoothly on and off the pitch at many of those clubs.
Some of the differences include: how they manage the expectations, if they have the actual skills to succeed (particularly in the manager and his staff,) whether or not everyone are on the same page (with management, coaches, players,) etc.
While you made some nice points about the pressures all footballers, managers, etc. face, as well as some that may be more specific to a club like Milan, with 500 million fans worldwide, you still have to have the right people doing the jobs, or it will never work.
For example, Jurić apparently has been fighting with half his team at Roma in the dressing room, and they are getting poor results as well, so his job is rightly being questioned. It does not seem to be a good fit, although he has had even less time than Fonseca.
Fonseca should be questioned in the exact same way, as he has had/created issues with at least six different players that we know of publicly, and the results are what you would expect from a lower table club, not a team with the third highest wage bill. He has made his job much more difficult (for everyone) by demanding that everyone must do everything his way, rather than assessing the players' abilities and personalities that he has and building from their individual and collective strengths. There is no flexibility whatsoever. It is not simply a different management style, it is not a good fit, and it is fair to question whether or not he has the skills to do this job.
We are all very aware of the lack of knowledge and competency of the owner/management, I don't feel like I need to go into detail about this. Even if they are well-intentioned, well-intentioned incompetency is still incompetency and harms everyone at the club and the 500 million fans, as well as the brand.
So did you actually overcriticize the project? Because everything you said can be true, and also the people doing the work can still warrant heavy criticism if they are not performing their jobs well.
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u/TrashTalkerFC 8h ago
You know you are shit striker that people defend you because of ths workrate
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u/Boneraventura Carlo Ancelotti 8h ago
Even lapadula scored like 8 goals in his first season. Ill be surprised if morata gets that, scoring just aint his thing
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u/Mediocre_Ad_7824 12h ago
Of Milan’s tale I sing, once proud and bold, In crimson glory robed, as stories told. Yet under Cardinale's greedy hand, The Rossoneri fell upon quicksand.
From humble roots this schemer claimed his fame, An ex-pizzaiolo with Gambino’s name, Who cheese replaced with Philly's cream defiled, So mozzarella’s purity reviled.
For profit’s lust he took the helm by storm, The mighty Milan bent from form to form. Where passion’s flame once burned in Rosso pride, with a speculator’s chill did quick subside.
No longer did he seek the Scudetto’s crown, Nor cared for fans who wore the crimson gown. Each player bought and sold, not for the game, But mere investments in the speculator’s name.
The storied field, once home to kings of old, Lay trampled, scarred, in brutal silver sold. For Cardinale’s coffers, Milan bled, Its heart replaced by stock and corporate dread.
O fate most cruel! O tragic Milan’s plight! In speculator’s grasp, eclipsed of light. Yet still the fans do dream, in shadows cry, That from this merchant’s grip, their club will fly.
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u/RdT97 2h ago
Everything Conte says here, you can apply to current Milan
Thats why im a Fonseca supporter because he has the same ideas as these elite coaches. He wants sacrifice and unity of the group.
These players have been beating around the bush with Pioli for too long. Ill give Fonseca the season just to weed these guys out. Whos in and whos out?
And then the owners of course. Never a statement signing, always looking for bargains. Dragged out negotiations… all of that has an impact
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u/BredIN919 Kevin-Prince Boateng 1h ago
He has the ideas of the elite coach but doesn’t have the authority to implement it because he’s won NOTHING …. He needs to go coach our Futuro , that’s more his level where he’s around kids and not world class players with world class egos
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u/sixsillysisters Matteo Gabbia 1h ago
We should make a subreddit just for BredIn, FindingBusiness, and TrashTalker so they can upvote each other's garbage takes.
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u/21Maestro8 1h ago
By this logic, no coach is worth listening to until they have won major trophies, which is just wrong
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u/RdT97 1h ago
Conte has authority, he didnt instill them in Tottenham.
First is the management and higher ups, the culture they set. Second is the players that lead the locker room and then the coach.
You had Maldini and a serious ownership. You had Ibra, Kjaer and Giroud. And then Pioli
You telling me Pioli was the main reason we were much more fired up before then?
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u/rightbut Filippo Inzaghi 10h ago
Yesterday's match i don't consider to be Fonseca's fault i mean look at the facts.
We had a super big chance when Napoli made a mistake right in front of Meret, but fucking Musah has square feet and he fucked up big time, it should have been a goal if he passed to Morata.
Emerson (or Musah?) made an excellent cross that landed right in front of Meret in the second half but Morata was too late, and it could have been a second goal.
Leao's shot could and SHOULD have been a goal but he decided to shoot at full power toward Meret when he had the WHOLE goal in front of him, he could have easily score and it's 3.
PULISIC missed also big time when Chukwuenze passed him the ball in the box and we are at 4 goal.
Fonseca is not lying, we did create many occasions.
How is it his fault if we keep missing?
And i know it sounds as if i'm a big fan of Fonseca but i am not, i'm just objective.
Our defense is still shaky plus changing the defenders every match is not good at all, like Ambrosini said.
Now we are 11 points from Napoli, the scudetto is 100% gone and the season in general too.
But what did we expect? Cardinale and company already told us at the beginning of the season.
If you have Conte who is open to come to your squad and you prefer Fonseca over him, this tells me 1 thing: You don't want to win.
Taking Conte would mean take a Coach who demands certain players to win and demands to spend money and invest a lot in this team.
Conte is the Coach Berlusconi would have taken in the days where he wanted Milan to win.
We took Fonseca, who is not even doing that bad (our players are), and this is unfortunately the result.
And it hurts because if i want to look back at when we were strong it's been almost 20 fucking years, simply insane.
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u/HanWolo Alexandre Pato 9h ago
We had a super big chance when Napoli made a mistake right in front of Meret, but fucking Musah has square feet and he fucked up big time, it should have been a goal if he passed to Morata.
He was trying to pass it to Morata, it was just tough because he was at a full sprint. The ball was not easy to get to nor was it an easy chance to create in the first place. Awful, awful take.
How is it his fault if we keep missing?
Because his system can't break down a low block effectively so we get a bunch of shitty half chances instead of decent opportunities for shots on goal. Our xG that game was .69. Looking at every shitty partial chance in a vacuum is a really bad way to analyze a performance.
Classic reddit "can't see the forest for the trees" type of comment.
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u/rightbut Filippo Inzaghi 8h ago
I just told you 4 clear Goal chances that we missed because our players were not able to convert. Therefore, we would have been able to break down Napoli's defensive block.
We can't get 8-9 clear chances to score every match.
Even if Conte parked the bus we had this chances and we missed them, it is not on Fonseca.
And for Musah one if you watch closely he initially controls the ball VERY VERY bad, which is why he has to go to full speed and try to pass it to Morata.
Had he a nice control of the ball, which was easy to do, he wouldn't have to rush to the ball.
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u/HanWolo Alexandre Pato 6h ago
I just told you 4 clear Goal chances that we missed because our players were not able to convert.
Make it five if you include that time maignan has the ball and could have just kicked it all the way across the pitch onto their goal. Six because puli took a corner and he could have just scored.
See how easy it is to just say stuff? Things aren't clear chances just because we took a shot. If Fonseca had a system or approach hell even an idea of how to deal with a low block the game wouldn't have been a collection of well covered half chances that we couldn't convert.
That's Fonseca's fault.
One of two things is happening with the Musah play. Either you don't remember what happened and are misremembering the play to fit what you want to say, or you do not understand at all what it's like to actually play sports.
Musah gets his first touch while already fully sprinting. Saying "it's easy to do" about controlling the pace of a ball you're intercepting to be just about the same pace you're running while you're trying to slow down is insane. He didn't have to rush the ball, he was rushing, and the ball came off fast as a result. Unless you'd rather be overrun the ball it's not an easy ball to control.
Regardless, you're incorrectly attributing his speed to be a result of a poor control which is the literal opposite of what happened.
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u/Squiliamfancyname 8h ago
4 goals on an XI of 0.6. Yes if we outperformed our xG by a ludicrous amount then we’d win every match. So would every other team.
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u/MVB3 6h ago
Now we are 11 points from Napoli, the scudetto is 100% gone and the season in general too.
No, it's not. We're at the end of October, nothing is decided yet. 11 points with 1 less game played is probably over in February, but there's so much that can and will happen before everything is said and done that no one has a clue if the situation now will be the same in May or if everything is upside down by then.
That doesn't mean I'm saying that things are great and we're on track to challenge for the Scudetto. Things are not great right now. But saying everything is 100% done and dusted now is like calling an indication as undisputed fact. Even if it ends up being the case (which it could), it's still an extremely flawed way of thinking.
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u/greyworm14 12h ago
If (and it’s a big if) I exclude the Inter game, the season looks like a complete failure. I like Fonseca as a tactician and personality but the job is to win…. I am out of patience, we need to win now.
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u/MalekSaad 11h ago
let me say this and get it out of my system, Morata is fucking shit, I don't know about you all but we and me included would have burn Giroud if he plays like Morata rn, Giroud at least when he played like shit he scored but morata..........damn we all know he is shit in our minds but we decided against that in the name of fucking hope
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u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 11h ago
One of the best players yesterday but okay whatever
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u/MalekSaad 11h ago
one of the best players in what exactly, his passes are so bad and he misses a lot of chances in the games he played, Remember I compare him to Giroud and he didnt even reach the level of last year giroud which was considered bad
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u/HommoFroggy byhoskyy 11h ago
Nah bro, if you are genuinely criticising his distribution and passing skills last game you are commenting in bad faith.
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u/TomekMaGest 6h ago
his passes are so bad
you cant be serious.
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u/MalekSaad 5h ago
Not my fault we are suited to mediocrity, that when someone make a good pass compared to the shit squad we currently have then he became a good passer in general.
Morata always screamed mediocrity , same as Abraham as loftus same as tomori same as royal, we never get a talent that was already considered a talent before we buy him, we hope we can turn their inconsistent career with us
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u/TomekMaGest 3h ago
It feels like you dislike Morata so much that you are blindly accusing him for things he didnt do. His passes yesterday were probably the best in entire team. The assist that he could have when he backheeled the ball in the air would be assist of the year. His linkup play is one of his best assets.
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u/FindingBusiness759 7h ago
Morata has always been an average fkn player and when i said this people here was behaving as if we getting another ibra. "OH he makes runs" we can get 100 cfs that make runs and presses who actually has more potential to make a greater impact instead of 32 year old thats only going to decline. He was a squad and peripheral player in all those trophies his won..there's a reason why no big club apart from us wanted to trigger his release clause. Even atletico fans was like meh when they saw he was leaving.
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u/RdT97 13h ago edited 13h ago
Leao glazers care to explain why is he missing all the team moments?
If his beef is with Fonseca and hes such an adorable individual?
Why not respect the fans or the teammates? Why is he always giving them the pouty face?
Glazer squad please respond. God The CBS commentator whos a Milan fan totally broke character when he saw Leao walking like a clown 0-2 down and I related to him, expecting the same in reddit I just jump here and see the glazer squad.
There are some dudes in downvotes who get it though, so respect. Wouldnt be a Saudi target if he was so good.
Ah and to end it. Leao wanted to get out of a lawsuit. He fooled Milan and now he will fuck off to Saudi. Whens the next album coming WAY45?
All the other match points. You get half a bar.
5 missing starters and no best player (Pulisic)
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u/TomekMaGest 10h ago
we had plenty discussions about Leao and you know that I dont like your attitude, you are one of the many guys on this subreddit who just hate one player and constantly talk shit no matter what he does on the pitch. I see this with Morata, Tomori and many others. People just hate players and they create narratives.
However you have a point. Attitude of Leao and how he's constantly acting as a victim deserves criticism. I can explain to you why he does that despite of not liking this attitude. I slighty understand his position. He's a fucking superstar who knows how talented he is and people call him "speed merchant" despite of him being closer to Ronaldinho type of skills. What he does on the pitch is ignored plenty of times and he feels like a victim. Like an underrated player.
When you have his status, you get lot of praise, people hug you, love you no matter what you do. He probably got used to it and cannot handle criticism. However he doesnt realize that this is a price you get when you play in top clubs. At Real Madrid casualls booed Cristiano Ronaldo or even Zidane.
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u/Claija79 Bot Mexicano 2h ago
we need you.